Should we have been using a 3-4 defense instead of 4-3 with known roster issues

[bg red planet]

We have a strong deep group of DT. I would even count McMullen as a 3-4 tackle more than a 4-3 end and our best 2 lb's if healthy are really both inside backers... you could have a strong and weak outside backer with freedom over the tight-end and Newby or (move Freedom to weak once Gangwish gets back) on the weak side... Is this still Possible?

 

[GretnaShawn]

No. You can't just change the entire defense scheme mid season. The current roster may have not been recruited to play in Bankers style of defense, but at least they are both 4-3's.

Even if you could make the change, we can hardly field 3 LBs, much less 4. And has Banker ever run a 3-4? So he is just magically supposed to know the ins-and-outs of an entirely new scheme???

 

[bg red planet]

No. You can't just change the entire defense scheme mid season. The current roster may have not been recruited to play in Bankers style of defense, but at least they are both 4-3's.

Even if you could make the change, we can hardly field 3 LBs, much less 4. And has Banker ever run a 3-4? So he is just magically supposed to know the ins-and-outs of an entirely new scheme???

I really didn't believe it to be possible... I was more speculating that shouldn't the coaches have seen the strengths and weaknesses of our roster this spring and maybe looked to amplify our strengths (DT numbers/Quality) And Experienced inside LB's and combining our 2 weak positions outside linebacker and DE into one position to get the most out our personnel, and that both of our best linebackers are better suited to play inside. That was my real question.

 

[GretnaShawn]

I really didn't believe it to be possible... I was more speculating that shouldn't the coaches have seen the strengths and weaknesses of our roster this spring and maybe looked to amplify our strengths (DT numbers/Quality) And Experienced inside LB's and combining our 2 weak positions outside linebacker and DE into one position to get the most out our personnel, and that both of our best linebackers are better suited to play inside. That was my real question.

No. We don't have any DEs that are speed rushers. So there is a lack of LBs and a lack of DEs that could turn into LBs. So we don't have the personnel to pull it off. It makes no sense. Especially since the coaching staff is not familiar with a 3-4 (that part is speculation by me).

 

[Cornicator]

With the current linebacker situation, running a 3-4 would've been a nightmare.

 

[mel mains]

Wait, you want 4 LBs on the field when N can barely muster 3?

 

[NikkiSixx]

this is why i think a 5-2 might help

 

[ridge22]

We have a strong deep group of DT. I would even count McMullen as a 3-4 tackle more than a 4-3 end and our best 2 lb's if healthy are really both inside backers... you could have a strong and weak outside backer with freedom over the tight-end and Newby or (move Freedom to weak once Gangwish gets back) on the weak side... Is this still Possible?

If you listen to the coaches before the season they kind of hinted that they were probably going to be susceptible in the passing game and specifically the long ball. The main focus was going to be to contain the running game, and to a certain extent so far so good in that respect. I guess what I am wondering about a little is, since we are so thin at DE why not get some of the true freshmen on the field and let them get their feet wet and see what they can do. You have Neal and A. Davis at DE and then the two Davis brothers from Missouri, maybe one of them could help out at DE. Also along those lines it sounded like we had two pretty good CB in the 2015 class, so why not give them a shot as well.

I like most am not too happy with the pass D so far, but I am going to let this play out and see.

 

[bg red planet]

One or both of the ends could still be out of our current DE"s with our extra down lineman now taking up a interior blocker, It would possibly allow for more push in middle and less double teaming of our DT's also would create more one on one rush opportunities for DEnds either a current de or moved OLB (Newby for example) The Idea is to combine 2 weak position groups DE and OLB to play one And add another player from a position we consider a strength DT and hopefully get a pass rush so cornerbacks don't have to cover for 4 + seconds. And as for if our coach can coach it argument we have been told we have 3 experienced ex D-coordinators on staff the head coach has been a D-coordinator they should be able to figure out gap responsibilities and coverage. This season Boils down to developing a Pass Rush, We need to do something creative or be ready for the same results the rest of the year with any team with even a average passing game. It's either this or staying in the 4-3 and moving a Fast Twitch athlete to DE in pass rush situations (probably a back-up RB (Taylor) or a FB (people trained their whole life to get by a one on one tackle and now have to get by a OT who has to worry about a holding call) or try Newby and Just remember our most explosive DE was a TE last year and only has had a springs worth of practice at the position. Tear away... but give us some other options instead of just saying it won't work... or just tell me that what we see is what we are going to get the rest of the season and plan on 4-5 loses

 

[bg red planet]

Demorrio Williams Highlights not all pass rushing but they are worth the wait

 

[steelclaw]

With the current linebacker situation, running a 3-4 would've been a nightmare.

Hey it works in Madden. Wait, it doesn't there either.

 

[GretnaShawn]

One or both of the ends could still be out of our current DE"s with our extra down lineman now taking up a interior blocker, It would possibly allow for more push in middle and less double teaming of our DT's also would create more one on one rush opportunities for DEnds either a current de or moved OLB (Newby for example) The Idea is to combine 2 weak position groups DE and OLB to play one And add another player from a position we consider a strength DT and hopefully get a pass rush so cornerbacks don't have to cover for 4 + seconds.

We do not have the players to play a 3-4. There are not enough LBs and our DEs are not rush ends. Freedom/McMullen/Gangwish/Dzursis (sp?) are not suited to stand up and become 3-4 outside LBs. No matter how bad we want Demorrio Wiliams to suddenly appear, we just do not have him on the roster.

And if we use Newby as an OLB, you have MRI (hurt), Bando (slowed/hurt), to play ILBs. And Young to play the other OLB? Since MRI is out for 4 weeks, Weber takes his place. Who are there backups???? All you have left is Gifford. So now you have one sub for four positions.

And as for if our coach can coach it argument we have been told we have 3 experienced ex D-coordinators on staff the head coach has been a D-coordinator they should be able to figure out gap responsibilities and coverage.

So the coaches figure it out how they want to run the 3-4. They all get comfortable with it. That takes a week? Then they have to implement it. Seeing as the current defense only took spring and fall camp, but you only have a week in between games, I bet there are no defensive break downs.

This season Boils down to developing a Pass Rush, We need to do something creative or be ready for the same results the rest of the year with any team with even a average passing game. It's either this or staying in the 4-3 and moving a Fast Twitch athlete to DE in pass rush situations (probably a back-up RB (Taylor) or a FB (people trained their whole life to get by a one on one tackle and now have to get by a OT who has to worry about a holding call) or try Newby and Just remember our most explosive DE was a TE last year and only has had a springs worth of practice at the position.

Look at your typical rush ends body style, look Taylor and Janovich, do they look like what you are picturing? And you are pretty much saying that rushing the QB from the DE spot takes no technique or skill. It is pretty much plug and play. That is not realistic. Does Freedom show a lot of promise? Yes. Did it take him all of spring and fall camp to get where he is? Yes. Would he be flashing like he is if we just moved him from TE last week without any experience? No.

Tear away... but give us some other options instead of just saying it won't work... or just tell me that what we see is what we are going to get the rest of the season and plan on 4-5 loses

 

[bg red planet]

OK I get it!!!! We're going to just see the same crap the rest of the year... I guess 7 years of this is what we play and we can't make any changes from our pre-season plans is ingrained.... ( I thought Bo left.... Oh yeah another 60 yrd run from Melvin Gordon...opps I mean another QB with 6 seconds to find a open receiver for a 1st down and 400 yrds. passing.) Enjoy

 

[bg red planet]

OK I get it!!!! We're going to just see the same crap the rest of the year... I guess 7 years of this is what we play and we can't make any changes from our pre-season plans is ingrained.... ( I thought Bo left.... Oh yeah another 60 yrd run from Melvin Gordon...opps I mean another QB with 6 seconds to find a open receiver for a 1st down and 400 yrds. passing.) Enjoy

Thank you Shawn, That is what I was looking for instead of just smart responses.

 

[timnsun]

OK I get it!!!! We're going to just see the same crap the rest of the year... I guess 7 years of this is what we play and we can't make any changes from our pre-season plans is ingrained.... ( I thought Bo left.... Oh yeah another 60 yrd run from Melvin Gordon...opps I mean another QB with 6 seconds to find a open receiver for a 1st down and 400 yrds. passing.) Enjoy

People didn't like your suggestion... That doesn't mean the year is lost and the rest of the season will play out the same.[/QUOTE]

 

[kaz36]

Considering that only one coach on the staff has experience with a 3-4 defense, then I think it may be a bad idea to try in season. That and the fact we literally only have like 1 healthy linebacker right now.

 

[dinglefritz]

Neal I believe just had surgery and Davis would get eaten alive. We are doing the best we can with what we have to work with.

 

[oldred]

Hard to do when you only have one coach with experience in that type of D.

 

[suhnami]

OK I get it!!!! We're going to just see the same crap the rest of the year... I guess 7 years of this is what we play and we can't make any changes from our pre-season plans is ingrained.... ( I thought Bo left.... Oh yeah another 60 yrd run from Melvin Gordon...opps I mean another QB with 6 seconds to find a open receiver for a 1st down and 400 yrds. passing.) Enjoy

A lot of posters seem to be under the impression that there is no way it will be that bad the rest of the year because we either A) have more talent or B) the other team isn't a great passing team - or a combination of the two. That is to me is short sighted and we should have some other options figured out really quickly.

However, a 3-4 defense would be ugly and bad.