Should a college football program

Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by red scowl, May 19, 2020.

  1. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    hire a coach more closely aligned with its values and view. Also consider state population when evaluating. Should this be recognized when hiring a coach? I am beginning to question the style of play. I want every year that Frost gets, but I question. I don't think the states athletes can feed this program, unless we have a power spread.

    Our best teams had alot of Nebraska natives. You have to recruit national, but I'm not sure the current offense is feasible. Am I wrong?
     
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  2. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I would say yes you are wrong. The players will come, enough to make this offense above average in the Big Ten.

    Frost can still recruit the walk on OL to come to Nebraska, the difference between what Osborne offensive recruiting would look like compared to what Frost recruiting will look like, Is WR and QB recruiting. In Osborne's years, especially at the end of his tenure, QB recruiting was a bit easier. There were only a handful of teams that ran the QBs like he did. WR will change because you won't be able to bring in a walk on WR from Prep or PLV feed him and get him to first string as often as Osborne was.

    The question continues to be defense going forward.
     
  3. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    So you think the defense set the tone for the Huskers better teams?
     
  4. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    Frost doesn't recruit the same kind of lineman as Osborne with his power running team. How many 6'6 or more athletic tackles are in Nebraska. And then account for attrition because we are humans.

    They are going to walk-on? Why? Because UNL has been so successful developing lineman recently?
     
    4 red scowl, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  5. tone1017

    tone1017 Redshirt Freshman
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    No elite team in 2020 will start “a lot” of Nebraska natives. That is just a fact, regardless of scheme, alignment, etc. If we or any other program is starting “a lot” of Nebraska natives, that program will not be competing for championships.
     
  6. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    It's late. You seem to want to bring Osborne into a different era of football. I will make time later today.
     
  7. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    We are not competing for bowls. I said nothing of championships, but for the makeup of our championship teams. You folks need to quit reading for your argument, and read the actual words. I try not to post intent.

    I have a question for you. Should you design your offense and defense to your players or should you design it to the players it should have?
     
  8. SkerInCo

    SkerInCo Blackshirt
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    As long as we keep hyping our hype videos on Twitter the recruits will come.
     
  9. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    It boils down to the players that are readily available and loyalty, development and instruction. We have brought in so many 4* with poor offer lists, and It was for naught.

    I am not saying I'm right, but neither are you. I do however think we can't recruit our way out of this. We have to win first. Defense or offense doesn't matter. It's a team.

    Edit: I don't think we can't recruit our way out of this.We can identify guys better, but we're still a program that needs to develop guys.
     
    9 red scowl, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  10. Cornicator

    Cornicator Nebraska Legend
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    This is really ridiculous.

    1. Nebraska's talent sucked terribly when Frost arrived. Any offense or defense they inserted would've struggled.

    - the team possessed 2 underclassmen scholarship linebackers.

    - the roster included only 3 viable Big Ten caliber scholarship underclassmen scholarship offensive linemen.

    - the secondary was too small to compete in the Big Ten.

    - there were 0 Big Ten quality underclassmen RBs in the roster.

    - there were only two Big Ten caliber underclassmen receivers on the roster.

    2. What fvcking offense or defense did you want to run?

    - this roster would've struggled with any schematic makeup.

    Its obvious you're longing for some type of revisionist adoration of Husker lore. Go check out YouTube.

    -
     
  11. HuskerOH

    HuskerOH Walk On
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    Football programs are like a business. You have to know who you are and where you want to go. You have to build from the bottom up and spend years building your foundation and developing your brand. If you are successful in doing this, you may be known as an overnight success or be known as a wise general who took their time doing it right.

    There are no short cuts or easy steps in doing it right. In both instances, you need people believing in what you're doing. With a business you know the type of people you want doing your bidding for you and developing your brand. Same as in football except you need 18-24 yr olds doing the work of people in their 30's. With business, you can take people of high character and "mold" them over time into the statue you need. In football, most of the time, you need to take the statue and "develop" character into them. In both circumstances, people are who make and break that entity.

    Frost needs time to finish his foundation. This may take another 2 years and maybe a few more changes in personnel. Everyone thought Moos (?) was exaggerating the condition of the program when he took over. Appears he was right and maybe even sugar coating it a bit. I don't know if Frost is the person to turn this corner, all I know is that more time is needed to see what his vision is for this program. I was shocked when Frost said that his team did not look like a Big Ten team when he first got here. What I do know is that he has vision of what he wants his players to look like, and unfortunately you can't change the DNA of existing players.

    This may be another bumpy year and head scratching.
     
  12. tone1017

    tone1017 Redshirt Freshman
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    That’s fine but I don’t really care about competing for bowls nor do I particularly care what worked 25 years ago. I want to root for a program that strives for championships and as far off as we are I don’t want to implement a scheme or recruiting strategy that tops out below that. To your question I think it’s both. It’s not feasible to expect frost to implement an entirely new scheme every year based on the variations of his roster from year to year and it’s not feasible for college kids to relearn a new scheme every season. I think he’s taking the bumps and bruises now because he believes when the team masters his scheme the offense will be elite. But at the same time you can’t ask your players to do things they can’t do and expect success.
     
  13. Bugeater

    Bugeater Defensive Coordinator
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    Using the Papa John analogy, "better players, better coaching, better team.


    [​IMG]
     
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  14. schuele

    schuele Athletic Director
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    Watching those national title games from the 90s, I was reminded what a great eye T.O. and his staff had for lightly recruited in-state players who could blossom into major contributors. But I was also reminded how great they were at surrounding those guys with NFL talent from all over the country.

    Landing and developing in-state players is great, but the former doesn't really spell success without the latter.
     
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  15. mgbreis

    mgbreis Senior
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    So we should run an offense designed to feature lightly recruited slow guys?
     
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  16. scarletred

    scarletred Nebraska Legend
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    When we hired SF we were all excited about his offensive scheme there is no reason to question it now, let him get more weapons in this offense that he needs to be successful.. This year what we have coming in and have on deck you will see more of that offense we seen at UCF and when he was a assistant at Oregon...
     
  17. SWIowahawks

    SWIowahawks Sophomore
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    Hasn’t Nebraska’s offense been pretty good in the conference thus far? I think you can build a solid defense mostly on kids from Nebraska, Iowa, etc. That’s going to be the key for Frost.
     
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  18. headcard

    headcard Nebraska Legend
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    It wasn't very good last year, but I think that will prove to be an exception. I agree with those that have many more questions on the future of the defense.
     
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  19. schuele

    schuele Athletic Director
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    As long as "etc." includes places like Texas, Florida and California, I agree.
     
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  20. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    I don't think Nebraska needed to hire a coach with a system geared to Nebraska talent and you absolutely have to coach the system you believe in.

    Sure, Nebraska likely could've won more games the last two years if Frost chose to temporarily use an offense that ran left, ran middle, ran right or boot leg passed on third down and never snapped the ball with more than 5 seconds left on the play clock because he had a roster that could've handled that.

    Of course, then he's trying to recruit players for a system he's not showing them during games and has a team that hasn't been focused on mastering the system he wants to run.

    The issue within the fan base comes when wondering if he could've found some middle ground to win more in '18 and '19. I feel like he could have, but he has a system, he trusts it, and when the talent matches his scheme it'll be very effective regardless of the opposition.

    As far as the talent coming from in-state, high schools change their playing style to match the University of Nebraska's offense. That's going to take some time, too, but Nebraska will start to develop more kids that fit Frost's system and they'll be solid depth on strong teams.
     
    20 hedonistimpulse, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  21. oldjar07

    oldjar07 First Team All-Big Ten
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    When we had our last championships, we did have a lot of Nebraska natives starting.
     
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  22. CatColumbia

    CatColumbia Senior
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    We have to develop our line play on both sides. Once we do that, everybody else will look better on our team. I’m starting to see it on the offensive line side. The defensive line is a question mark, especially after losing 3 guys to the NFL. Here’s what I like about Frost:

    - He’s recruiting to fit his system (body types, speed, etc.)
    - The staff goes after the best player possible, regardless where they are from.
    - He’s quick to address staff changes. Getting Walters and DeWitt out was necessary.

    The wins will come.
     
    22 CatColumbia, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  23. egaRdeR

    egaRdeR Walk On
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    And we also had a lot of Nebraska natives starting in years in which we did not win titles.
     
  24. tone1017

    tone1017 Redshirt Freshman
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    I’m not debating whether that was true back then, I’m saying it’s not reality right now. We also had 5 pound cell phones back then and people searched the Internet with dogpile, things change.
     
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  25. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    A lot of those championship rosters were loaded with 4th and 5th-year walk-ons or guys who walked-on, but then earned their scholarship. It's different today. Just this offseason alone, Nebraska has seen underclassmen in-state walk-ons leave the program for Montana (Forbes) and North Dakota (Trevino).

    I do think it's telling with Nebraska grey shirting a guy like Ty Hahn that they're trying to be more open-minded to keeping the fringe athletes who went to smaller Nebraska schools from seeking greener pastures, though.
     
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  26. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    I’m not sure if this helps or not but I have 4 sons 19, 18, 14, and 13 and everyone of them played high school and junior high football. Most our Nebraska teams that I seen our actually running the spread offense. I haven’t seen many or any pro styled offense in while. It’s usually 1 RB with the QB in shot gun and 3-4 WRs and a TE. Now when I was younger, we had 1 WR, 2 TEs, 1 RB and 1 FB. But that was 94-98 lol...wow I’m getting old. :(
     
    26 huskerssalts, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  27. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Actually a good point. When Osborne was coaching at Nebraska, most, if not all, of the high school teams ran some version of his Nebraska offense. Heck some of the HS coaches even used similar terminology and play calls that they learned from Osborne at camps and stuff.

    Running a spread in HS is an easy way to get your best athletes match up one on one with inferior athletes. If you have a QB that can deliver an accurate ball, you can win a lot of games.

    Down here in Texas, one of the best 2 or 3 teams over the last 10 years is probably Katy. They run an offense that resembles Wisconsin. Power run, a QB that can throw the ball efficiently and a defense that will stop the run and will play sound, disciplined defense in the back end. They probably played in 5 state title games in recent years. Another great program is Allen. They were the exact opposite, they tried to outscore every opponent. They placed little to no emphasis on stopping the opponent, they just ran their O.

    My point is that when you go to their feeder middle schools and junior highs, those football teams ran the same offense as Katy or Allen.
     
  28. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    so the issue becomes a chicken and egg theory. Do you win without elite players, or do you have to get elite players to win????

    As I have said countless times, Nebraska could have hired a coach that ran an offense similar to what Pelini/ Beck ran after they fired Pelini. With the players on the roster at that time, the next coach probably has more success than Riley had. Same could be said when hiring Frost. Had they hired a coach that ran an offense that wan't the polar opposite of what Riley ran, you don't run off 2 of the 4 QBs in the QB room. You may not lose other players, some of the players that didn't work out for Frost may have worked out for the coach that ran a system they were more suited for.

    The point is, Frost can recruit enough talent to win here. Again, I know this is sacrilege but he hasn't shown that he can win games at Nebraska with just the talent he inherited. Is that because the talent was so bad, or is it because he chose to redshirt large parts of classes and basically tanked the first couple of years to develop for years 3,4 and 5? If we don't see an increase in wins this season, or at least an increase in the level of competitiveness in all games, some will question whether Frost is the right guy. It probably doesn't change anythng, but the decision to hire Frost will be debated.
     
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  29. SkerInCo

    SkerInCo Blackshirt
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    :eek:
     
  30. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I didn't mention any of the Huskers better teams. I wrote about recruiting to Frost's offense compared to Osborne's offense and what the differences will be.
    Frost's offense will do what it does, for this program to get anywhere near what it was, the defense will need to get considerably better.
     
  31. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    When Osborne was coaching there were very few 6'6" linemen playing anywhere. Of course they will be different.
     
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  32. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    No I don't. I left Osborne in his era.
     
  33. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    It was a big time roller coaster last season. We had ups and downs. The biggest positive was the Husker run game came together pretty well towards the second half of the season. I actually agree with your point, I think the Husker offense for the most part won’t be our biggest worry. It will be our defense. Seems like Fisher can get some legit talent at DB but outside that...it’s been up and down for the LBs and dline part. But then again, Huskers have pulled in back to back Top 15-18 recruiting classes and it’s only been 2 years. So we shall see how the LBs and DLine recruiting goes from here on out.

    Edited: Now here’s an honest question for you, if you truly think the Huskers are a total shit hole and the Huskers are “oh so bad and such a terrible place to play” then why do you come to our board all the time? I was trying to be decent with you but then I see some of the absolute garbage you like and post on. I am just completely lost why you come over here all the time if you truly hate everything about us Huskers, our team and university... if we are that bad in your eye, then why?
     
    33 huskerssalts, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  34. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    dead on and it’s the same way here in Nebraska. The youth teams try and run the same offense and defense the varsity teams run. It really helps to get them ready for when they hit the varsity level, so it makes sense that they do that.
     
    34 huskerssalts, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  35. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    I am not saying to stop recruiting nationally. I am not saying not to run his current offense. I am saying we need to be able to run power. We need to stop the run.

    It will help if we can run iso. It will help loosen up the "swing" pass. Or whatever that is called. Quick pass, hot read, etc...

    We're going to have to be able to control the middle. We aren't recruiting our way out of this.
     
  36. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    This is not true as far as my intent. I'm not one to hate and say all sorts of derogatory things towards the program.

    There are all sorts of things wrong, but they should have been bowl eligible last season.
     
  37. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    Yes, that's exactly what I typed.
     
  38. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    We need a power running game we can rely on. Our wide receivers need to be able to block the perimeter. We need better production all-around.

    We need a power run game. That will help our defense also.
     
  39. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    I would argue the offense was worse last year.
     
  40. red scowl

    red scowl Senior
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    I don't agree with the talent question either
    People were pushed out that would have helped us. I'm all for continuity, but the results are ugly.
     

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