S Carolina's Frank Martin on 2020/2021 Season

John_J_Rambo

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Jan 10, 2020
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I'm sure some will agree with this sentiment, but I find it appalling and a little too close to home.

you're paid to win, coach. fans care (a lot) about wins and losses. players (should) care a lot about winning.

leave the platitudes at the door or find another line of work.
 

Mack In Motion

Blackshirt
Jun 20, 2001
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I get the sense both our football and basketball coaches would agree whole heartedly with coach martin's statement.
I think both of those coaches are frustrated AF. With good reason. But I don't get the sense they don't care about W/L.

You can find Martin's attitude all over academia. My son's high school superintendent and principal have been pushing -- long before the pandemic -- about how they're de-emphasizing grades and academic achievement across the board and instead are emphasizing SEL (social emotional learning).
 
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bingo65

Redshirt Freshman
Jun 18, 2020
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I'm sure some will agree with this sentiment, but I find it appalling and a little too close to home.

you're paid to win, coach. fans care (a lot) about wins and losses. players (should) care a lot about winning.

leave the platitudes at the door or find another line of work.
others would disagree with you. i'm sure there are millions of different ways of coaching and treating players and none of them work all the time. i can assure you the coaches and players at USC care about winning. I can assure you they think it sucks to lose. But some people also think its important to keep things in perspective. If Martin loses his job because he doesn't win enough thats fine. But i dont think his statement about this particular year is an omen for his future. More likely, you spend a lot of time looking for ways to criticize people who have different beliefs than you. at least on this board thats about all you do.
 
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bingo65

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I think both of those coaches are frustrated AF. With good reason. But I don't get the sense they don't care about W/L.

You can find Martin's attitude all over academia. My son's high school superintendent and principal have been pushing -- long before the pandemic -- about how they're de-emphasizing grades and academic achievement across the board and instead are emphasizing SEL (social emotional learning).
dont know any details about your example but i'm pretty sure you would exaggerate the situation anyway, but there is a lot of data out there that points to better outcomes with a different approach to education. Not saying this involves any of that but just saying there is a lot of info that shows we might be able to do better with different methods. Grades and academic achievement are not always correlated with the highest organizational contributions.
 

John_J_Rambo

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others would disagree with you. i'm sure there are millions of different ways of coaching and treating players and none of them work all the time. i can assure you the coaches and players at USC care about winning. I can assure you they think it sucks to lose. But some people also think its important to keep things in perspective. If Martin loses his job because he doesn't win enough thats fine. But i dont think his statement about this particular year is an omen for his future. More likely, you spend a lot of time looking for ways to criticize people who have different beliefs than you. at least on this board thats about all you do.
it's true that my #1 priority is not to ensure every poster is 'at peace'.
 

jmliehr

All-American
Nov 1, 2009
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I think both of those coaches are frustrated AF. With good reason. But I don't get the sense they don't care about W/L.

You can find Martin's attitude all over academia. My son's high school superintendent and principal have been pushing -- long before the pandemic -- about how they're de-emphasizing grades and academic achievement across the board and instead are emphasizing SEL (social emotional learning).

Not sure that’s the worst thing, I’ve hired and interviewed dozens and dozens of employees over the last decade plus. I have never asked, nor cared about their GPA from any level of school.
 
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spartanhusker

College Football Hall of Fame
May 29, 2001
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I'm sure some will agree with this sentiment, but I find it appalling and a little too close to home.

you're paid to win, coach. fans care (a lot) about wins and losses. players (should) care a lot about winning.

leave the platitudes at the door or find another line of work.
Probably 99%of the time I agree with you...this time I don't. I don't think it's "we don't care about winning"...it's " this year is not like any other...we have kids who are figuring out how to do this thing...sometimes they don't..."

I used to HATE this coach...I've learn to like a lot of what he says....AND he was in the Final Four a while back so he knows his stuff...

I have a small story about how kids CAN be affected by 'this year'....one of my best senior girls worked amazingly hard all summer, followed the rules, was playing best she ever had...and then had to quarantine first two weeks of season...could not hit, could not be with teammates...when she returned, she never really got it all back together...they are kids.....it happens...they get a pass, in my opinion...
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
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I get the sense both our football and basketball coaches would agree whole heartedly with coach martin's statement.
And Martin is right. Look at the national statistics on suicide, alcoholism and drug overdoses. There is NOTHING about this past year that was normal. Many athletes undoubtedly lost family members to COVID. The things that these guys went through to entertain us were beyond ridiculous from social isolation to repetitive testing. The mental stress has had to be horrible. At least my kid could be at home, wait tables and go see friends while her F'n college was online. Athletes were pretty much sequestered to their damned gyms and dorm rooms.
 

dinglefritz

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Not sure that’s the worst thing, I’ve hired and interviewed dozens and dozens of employees over the last decade plus. I have never asked, nor cared about their GPA from any level of school.
As long as they got their participation ribbon you were good huh?
 

jmliehr

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As long as they got their participation ribbon you were good huh?

Seen plenty of high GPA people who were book smart but struggled to apply that knowledge to the real world, give me a employee who has experienced and overcome failure in college over the one who breezed through school never facing real adversity.
 

mgbreis

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Dec 16, 2004
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This is the best you could come up with for today's outrage about the state of Nebraska football/basketball? It's a real stretch. People seem like they spend most of their day parsing sound bites to look for a reason to have a hot take online. Doesn't matter what Martin says, end of the day he'll be judged on wins and losses. It's utterly ridiculous to reach the conclusion somehow that Frost and Hoiberg don't care about winning more than anything else.
 

bingo65

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Seen plenty of high GPA people who were book smart but struggled to apply that knowledge to the real world, give me a employee who has experienced and overcome failure in college over the one who breezed through school never facing real adversity.
yeah but dingle has an old school agenda. he doesn't want anything to change and doesn't like considering that maybe just maybe some of his opinions are outdated and possibly just wrong.
 
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drubendall

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I think we all get where he's coming from, but he could have stated better with greater context.

Maybe say something like they are concerned with the physical and mental well-being of student athletes that are navigating an entirely new cultural phenomenon and all of the stresses that go along with it. It's their desire to develop student athletes into successful people post athletics and to help them collectively achieve their individual goals and that of the team.
 
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TampaBaySkers

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Seen plenty of high GPA people who were book smart but struggled to apply that knowledge to the real world, give me a employee who has experienced and overcome failure in college over the one who breezed through school never facing real adversity.

You do realize you can be both book smart and have a high work ethic. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
 

jmliehr

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You do realize you can be both book smart and have a high work ethic. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Wow, that is brand new information, thanks!

Work ethic and dealing with adversity are different things. I have seen plenty who work plenty hard but are lost when shit hits the fan or something disrupts SOP.
 
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AVeritas

Walk On
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Not sure that’s the worst thing, I’ve hired and interviewed dozens and dozens of employees over the last decade plus. I have never asked, nor cared about their GPA from any level of school.

That's pretty amazing because I was a Chevron recruiter for much of my career and the first thing I looked at was academics followed by leadership. I also taught at K-State's business school and talked about the importance of both to the interview process.

As for Frank Martin, he's an expert blowhard, the consummate con artist, who survived on plausible deniability in recruiting both at K-State and USC,e. Now he has the latter on probation. Yes, Covid is a reasonable excuse for many programs but every one of them is living with it.
 
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jmliehr

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That's pretty amazing because I was a Chevron recruiter for much of my career and the first thing I looked at was academics followed by leadership. I also taught at K-State's business school and talked about the importance of both to the interview process.

As for Frank Martin, he's an expert blowhard, the consummate con artist, who lived on plausible deniability in recruiting both at K-State and USC,e. Now he has the latter on probation. Yes, Covid is a reasonable excuse for many programs but every one of them is living with it.

Times have changed.

Google doesn’t care about GPA

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-6?op=1

Little correlation between GPA/degree and performance


The things that help people usually get a high GPA, such as memorization and note taking aren’t as valuable as learning how to lead others, build and work in teams and problem solve. That doesn’t eliminate someone with a high GPA from having/developing those traits, but it also doesn’t really seem to correlate either.
 

jlb321

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Aug 8, 2014
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Times have changed.

Google doesn’t care about GPA

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-6?op=1

Little correlation between GPA/degree and performance


The things that help people usually get a high GPA, such as memorization and note taking aren’t as valuable as learning how to lead others, build and work in teams and problem solve. That doesn’t eliminate someone with a high GPA from having/developing those traits, but it also doesn’t really seem to correlate either.

agree - but this is very business centric

you simply aren’t going to get into many post grad professional schools without elite grades or near elite grades plus a very unique intangible
 
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jmliehr

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agree - but this is very business centric

you simply aren’t going to get into many post grad professional schools without elite grades or near elite grades plus a very unique intangible

Whatever it takes to prop up the academic machine I guess.
 

jlb321

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Whatever it takes to prop up the academic machine I guess.

not saying it is right or wrong or that it predicts future job performance but the reality is one isn’t going to med school or physical therapy school, etc etc with a 2.8 gpa. 3.5+ is usually needed to at least have a chance
 

jmliehr

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not saying it is right or wrong or that it predicts future job performance but the reality is one isn’t going to med school or physical therapy school, etc etc with a 2.8 gpa. 3.5+ is usually needed to at least have a chance

And they probably miss some really good candidates as a result. Med schools serve as a tool to limit the amount of people who become doctors to keep the incomes higher for doctors. Lack of supply increases demand and drives high salaries. There are fewer med schools today than there were in 1963 and the # of med students has remained static for decades regardless of population growth. We hear about doctor shortages, burn out and long wait times to get in to doctors, wonder why?
 

AVeritas

Walk On
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This idea that businesses hire marginal academic performers may work at smaller companies, but you're not getting a job at Chevron with 2.5 gpa out of UNL. Rationalize all you want. But you better do well in the classroom if you want a top-tier job at a Fortune 100 company. I wouldn't even talk to candidates below 3.0.
 
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jmliehr

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This idea that businesses hire marginal academic performers may work at smaller companies, but you're not getting a job at Chevron with 2.5 gpa out of UNL. Rationalize all you want. But you better do well in the classroom if you want a top-tier job at a Fortune 100 company. I wouldn't even talk to candidates below 3.0.

As some who worked for (and hired at) a Fortune 100 and Fortune 500, I had different experiences. And Alphabet, Google’s parent company which is #11 has said it doesn’t correlate with performance.
 
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I think you would be hard pressed to get a job at a big fancy company right out of college with a 2.3 GPA or so. After you've worked in an industry for several years and have experience, it really doesn't matter at all. Google maybe said it doesn't correlate with performance, but good luck actually getting a job there right out of college with a mediocre GPA.
 

spartanhusker

College Football Hall of Fame
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I have zero interest in a doctor operating on me that didn't get good grades, or hiring a lawyer with bad grades. Imma gonna go out on a limb and say a huge majority of people agree with me.
Good point!!! I once had a slugnutty student who said his goal was to be a doctor(now this was 20 years ago when you could say hateful type things and not get fired!) and I laughed and scoffed and said" No WAY you are getting within a mile of me if you are a doctor!!! I know what kind of student you are!!!"

I hope I didn't crush his dreams...:)
 
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John_J_Rambo

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since this quote, S Carolina have gone 0-4 against the spread

thanks for the free cash, coach!
 

JohnRossEwing

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For those of you that work in non-teaching field...how would your boss ever know what grades you got?

Teachers have to show our transcripts.
 

jlb321

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For those of you that work in non-teaching field...how would your boss ever know what grades you got?

Teachers have to show our transcripts.

most bosses wouldn't have any idea - however in many fields good (and sometimes elite) grades are required to advance along the path toward some professions

many jobs require post grad work - you simply are not going to get the opportunity to do grad work (get into grad school - phD programs - professional school) without very good grades

likewise many jobs right out of college require letters of rec - those with better grades I would think tend to have better recommendations

many selective engineering programs require elite grades in high school to even enroll in the program -
nursing school is extremely competitive and gpa (fair or not) is a common litmus test for narrowing the selection process

maybe a student with a 2.5 gpa would make just as good a physician as someone with a 3.8 gpa - but you will never know because few if any with a 2.5 gpa will ever get the chance

lastly many college students enter college without knowing the specific career path they want to follow - those that finish their first year with low grades greatly reduce their future options of career choices
 
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spartanhusker

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maybe a student with a 2.5 gpa would make just as good a physician as someone with a 3.8 gpa - but you will never know because few if any with a 2.5 gpa will ever get the chance
My youngest son made great grades....not so much because he was extra smart, but because he HAD DRIVE!!!!
That Drive has carried over into what seems to be a successful career as an ENT in Wichita(Tru....let me know if you need those services!:) )
 

jlb321

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maybe a student with a 2.5 gpa would make just as good a physician as someone with a 3.8 gpa - but you will never know because few if any with a 2.5 gpa will ever get the chance
My youngest son made great grades....not so much because he was extra smart, but because he HAD DRIVE!!!!
That Drive has carried over into what seems to be a successful career as an ENT in Wichita(Tru....let me know if you need those services!:) )


that is great! -- you are 1000% correct
elite grades - for most - have as much to do with hard work/sacrifice as it does with baseline intelligence

you also don't get into most ENT residencies/fellowships without being near the top of your med school class - so the need for very good classroom/residency/internship performance doesn't just apply to undergrad

always amazed when the ENT shows up at the bedside with all the various gadgets they might need

(hope you are feeling better)
 
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John_J_Rambo

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most bosses wouldn't have any idea - however in many fields good (and sometimes elite) grades are required to advance along the path toward some professions

many jobs require post grad work - you simply are not going to get the opportunity to do grad work (get into grad school - phD programs - professional school) without very good grades

likewise many jobs right out of college require letters of rec - those with better grades I would think tend to have better recommendations

many selective engineering programs require elite grades in high school to even enroll in the program -
nursing school is extremely competitive and gpa (fair or not) is a common litmus test for narrowing the selection process

maybe a student with a 2.5 gpa would make just as good a physician as someone with a 3.8 gpa - but you will never know because few if any with a 2.5 gpa will ever get the chance


those with grades on the lower end of the spectrum can augment their resumes with other achievements - research/internships etc

lastly many college students enter college without knowing the specific career path they want to follow - those that finish their first year with low grades greatly reduce their future options of career choices
with all the night school options today for adults wanting to continue their education, an MBA has never meant less. if you have $6k, you're in.

60% of S&P 500 CEOs have an advanced degree. of those, a tiny fraction completed it immediately following undergrad. a giant majority succeeded in business for 10+ years and were granted access via relationships built and letters of recommendation, essentially based on potential future contribution to the school, which, of course, is much more meaningful to schools than grades as a 20-year old.

I'm sure it's different in other fields, but in business, it's meaningless and the only people who are impressed or care about advanced degrees are dinosaurs on their way out within the decade.
 
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dinglefritz

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And they probably miss some really good candidates as a result. Med schools serve as a tool to limit the amount of people who become doctors to keep the incomes higher for doctors. Lack of supply increases demand and drives high salaries. There are fewer med schools today than there were in 1963 and the # of med students has remained static for decades regardless of population growth. We hear about doctor shortages, burn out and long wait times to get in to doctors, wonder why?
This is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. You have no idea how much information you have to process in order to be a physician. What has been proven due to affirmative action med school admittance is that people who struggle to excel in undergrad struggle to get through medical school. Then IF they get through medical school they cost lives in practice. There was a very notable case of that in my wife's med school class at UNMC. I've hired a fair number of professionals over the years. You HAVE to have a high degree of intelligence to be a Dr. Not every intelligent person has the highest grades in their class but damn you have to be smart.

The other idea that you propose is that they purposefully limit the amount of Dr.s to drive incomes higher. That's just not true. Medical schools try to set admittance to their programs to meet the needs of their own states or area. That is done in conjunction with state government. Their all kinds of studies done to try to determine future needs for manpower in health care.

While it is true that Hillary and I'm sure soon Joe, incentivized shutting down subspecialty programs to limit the number of highly skilled surgeons etc. The idea was that it would force more patients to be satisfied by primary care Drs. We'll see more and more of the refusal by insurance companies and government health care to pay for advanced procedures going forward in an effort to control health care costs. Back to the 40s.