Riley, talent, and "what ifs"

[GoHuskers37]

So I've been visiting other Husker boards, opposing teams' boards, and various insider boards. From what I can gather among the Husker boards, there seems to be the continued divide between the two factions:

1) The "He needs more time/his players" faction
2) The "Well, this obviously isn't working out" faction

Among the the opposing teams' boards, of the few teams actually talking about Nebraska (most are just laughing), few think Riley was a good hire.

There are rumblings that a certain Regent at Nebraska is trying to stir the pot, and get the wheels turning as far as ousting Eichorst and perhaps Riley. These rumblings were obviously followed by the normal back and forth we see on these boards, with some saying "you're crazy, dude" and others saying "yeah, well you're crazy, dude."

And that leads the same arguments we currently see on every Husker board:

1) Riley needs more time
2) Pelini wouldn't have won more with this team
3) Frost wouldn't have won more with this team
4) Etc.

For me personally, I think what troubles me most isn't whether Frost would've won with this current Nebraska roster, as I would be willing to give a young HC with Nebraska roots and love time.

It troubles me that there is in fact a difference between who/what coach we should be "giving time," in my opinion.

Callahan deserved time because he had never coached in the college ranks as a head coach, and like it or not, the game is different than the NFL. He also recruited like a rock star.

Pelini deserved time because he had also never coached in the college ranks as a head coach, and he took a team that was 5-7 in 2007, and won 9 games the next. He followed that year up with back-to-back 10-win seasons. Then he basically doused himself in gasoline, lit a match, and asked the Nebraska administration to put out the fire. And they did.

Now we have Riley, a 62 year-old coach with a 30-year head coaching history and a .500 winning percentage. Here is where I question whether this coach "needs time."

This dude already knows the game of college football, having already coached for 15 years in D-1 college football. And considering the fact that he spent 14 of those years at the same institution, one has to wonder why we should expect anything better from this coach who has had nothing but time.

When Eichorst went on his one-man-band coaching search and hired Riley, we were told Riley would be able to win at Nebraska easier, because he didn't have the resources at Oregon State he will have at Nebraska.

But when looking at his 2016 recruiting class, he isn't exactly setting the world ablaze. I would believe he'll have NU finish ranked lower-ranked as a class than any of his predecessors, or pretty much since recruiting services/rankings began being published.

And that's pretty much what Riley has done his entire career: take something and make it worse.

Over his 14-year career at Oregon State, Riley won 9 or more games 4 times, with his apex being a 10-win season in 2006.

This is an honest question: Does this guy really need more time to install his system? Injuries happen to every team in college football, and the roster Mike Riley inherited and started the 2015 season with was likely the most talented he's ever had.

He is likely heading down the path of a 3-9 season, with his wins being over:

- South Alabama

- Southern Miss

- Minnesota

And I don't even want to discuss some of the poor teams he lost to with lesser talent.

Can someone please show me the light? Because I'm really having a hard time seeing it.

 

[Corn_Bred]

Don't know how much better Saban or Urban Meyer could have done this year with this team. We are just not a good football team. Plain and simple. I'm not insulting the players. But as in life you get what you put into it and what they've done simply isn't good enough to win. Fact.

These are what ifs I know but the BYU Hail Mary was a fluke. Get one lousy first down against Wisconsin and Illinois those are both Wins for us. The offense didn't get it done. The Defense didn't get the stops they needed when it counted. No coach even Saban or Meyer can't fix those things.

Fire a coach after one year? What coach will want to come here? You tell me.

 

[GoHuskers37]

Don't know how much better Saban or Urban Meyer could have done this year with this team. We are just not a good football team. Plain and simple. I'm not insulting the players. But as in life you get what you put into it and what they've done simply isn't good enough to win. Fact.

Well, you don't seem to be blaming coaching, so I would say you're insulting the players.

These are what ifs I know but the BYU Hail Mary was a fluke. Get one lousy first down against Wisconsin and Illinois those are both Wins for us. The offense didn't get it done. The Defense didn't get the stops they needed when it counted. No coach even Saban or Meyer can't fix those things.

Still not attributing any of this to coaching, and again you seem to be blaming the players.

Fire a coach after one year? What coach will want to come here? You tell me.

Hopefully a PROVEN coach at a lower tier school, or an assistant hoping to make the jump to the head coaching ranks. Given Oregon State's displeasure for Riley, had he remained there for another season, and Nebraska had hired and fired someone else after one year, I feel Riley would still jump at the opportunity.

He was well on his way to getting ousted at Oregon State, and for some reason didn't want to retire.

And the fact that you lump Riley in with Saban and Meyer is laughable.

 

[HuskerLegion]

Don't know how much better Saban or Urban Meyer could have done this year with this team. We are just not a good football team. Plain and simple. I'm not insulting the players. But as in life you get what you put into it and what they've done simply isn't good enough to win. Fact.

These are what ifs I know but the BYU Hail Mary was a fluke. Get one lousy first down against Wisconsin and Illinois those are both Wins for us. The offense didn't get it done. The Defense didn't get the stops they needed when it counted. No coach even Saban or Meyer can't fix those things.

Fire a coach after one year? What coach will want to come here? You tell me.

There is absolutely no way Saban or Meyer do this badly with this team. There are talent problems no question. However this staff is taking those issues and making them worse with some horrible game planning and dumb personnel decisions.

 

[jflores]

Attitudes and roster issues are the main reason Riley/insert coach of choice here "needs time".

I think Muschamp and others are great DC's and so forth, but even Will Muschamp needs DE/LB to play base defense. There's just no getting around that.

Especially with a rumored 10-15 kids leaving the program (or being asked to leave the program), we're taking a roster that was more or less equivalent to a sanction PSU, and depleting it further in the hopes of future return.

 

[HuskerLegion]

So I've been visiting other Husker boards, opposing teams' boards, and various insider boards. From what I can gather among the Husker boards, there seems to be the continued divide between the two factions:

1) The "He needs more time/his players" faction
2) The "Well, this obviously isn't working out" faction

Among the the opposing teams' boards, of the few teams actually talking about Nebraska (most are just laughing), few think Riley was a good hire.

There are rumblings that a certain Regent at Nebraska is trying to stir the pot, and get the wheels turning as far as ousting Eichorst and perhaps Riley. These rumblings were obviously followed by the normal back and forth we see on these boards, with some saying "you're crazy, dude" and others saying "yeah, well you're crazy, dude."

And that leads the same arguments we currently see on every Husker board:

1) Riley needs more time
2) Pelini wouldn't have won more with this team
3) Frost wouldn't have won more with this team
4) Etc.

For me personally, I think what troubles me most isn't whether Frost would've won with this current Nebraska roster, as I would be willing to give a young HC with Nebraska roots and love time.

It troubles me that there is in fact a difference between who/what coach we should be "giving time," in my opinion.

Callahan deserved time because he had never coached in the college ranks as a head coach, and like it or not, the game is different than the NFL. He also recruited like a rock star.

Pelini deserved time because he had also never coached in the college ranks as a head coach, and he took a team that was 5-7 in 2007, and won 9 games the next. He followed that year up with back-to-back 10-win seasons. Then he basically doused himself in gasoline, lit a match, and asked the Nebraska administration to put out the fire. And they did.

Now we have Riley, a 62 year-old coach with a 30-year head coaching history and a .500 winning percentage. Here is where I question whether this coach "needs time."

This dude already knows the game of college football, having already coached for 15 years in D-1 college football. And considering the fact that he spent 14 of those years at the same institution, one has to wonder why we should expect anything better from this coach who has had nothing but time.

When Eichorst went on his one-man-band coaching search and hired Riley, we were told Riley would be able to win at Nebraska easier, because he didn't have the resources at Oregon State he will have at Nebraska.

But when looking at his 2016 recruiting class, he isn't exactly setting the world ablaze. I would believe he'll have NU finish ranked lower-ranked as a class than any of his predecessors, or pretty much since recruiting services/rankings began being published.

And that's pretty much what Riley has done his entire career: take something and make it worse.

Over his 14-year career at Oregon State, Riley won 9 or more games 4 times, with his apex being a 10-win season in 2006.

This is an honest question: Does this guy really need more time to install his system? Injuries happen to every team in college football, and the roster Mike Riley inherited and started the 2015 season with was likely the most talented he's ever had.

He is likely heading down the path of a 3-9 season, with his wins being over:

- South Alabama

- Southern Miss

- Minnesota

And I don't even want to discuss some of the poor teams he lost to with lesser talent.

Can someone please show me the light? Because I'm really having a hard time seeing it.

I wish I could show you the light but I can't. We just lost to a 1-6 team that has beaten exactly 1 conference opponent and 3 years. We threw it 50 times against the worst run d in the big ten. I hope they get this thing figured out before they set more negative records. But I have virtually no hope that they will.

 

[gldnglv165]

I don't think he needs more time figuring out how to run a D1 program, the only thing he needs more time with is changing the culture of the program, and building depth on the roster.

I think most fans would be understanding of that and willing to give him that time if we were seeing progress on the field, and him taking advantage of the players he has. I think a lot of the frustration with him, is that we should not have to accept losing to the teams we are losing to. The kids look underprepared for the games and the games plans are baffling when we do not play to a strength, build some sort of identity, and we're not seeing progress in our many weaknesses.

He needs time to change things, but if he's not showing progress, or making the kids competitive, I'm afraid he's not going to get that time before he's shown the door.

 

[HuskerLegion]

Attitudes and roster issues are the main reason Riley/insert coach of choice here "needs time".

I think Muschamp and others are great DC's and so forth, but even Will Muschamp needs DE/LB to play base defense. There's just no getting around that.

Especially with a rumored 10-15 kids leaving the program (or being asked to leave the program), we're taking a roster that was more or less equivalent to a sanction PSU, and depleting it further in the hopes of future return.

See here is one difference IMO between a Saban/Meyer type and MR. I don't think you have as much locker room division with a Saban/Meyer type. I believe they would actually put their players in position to win. Honestly who knows but I refuse to believe no one could have done better in this situation.

 

[GoHuskers37]

I wish I could show you the light but I can't. We just lost to a 1-6 team that has beaten exactly 1 conference opponent and 3 years. We threw it 50 times against the worst run d in the big ten. I hope they get this thing figured out before they set more negative records. But I have virtually no hope that they will.

The passing stat is what I find most troubling. This is about the 6th or 7th game where the announcers repeatedly questioned what we were doing.

 

[HuskerLegion]

I don't think he needs more time figuring out how to run a D1 program, the only thing he needs more time with is changing the culture of the program, and building depth on the roster.

I think most fans would be understanding of that and willing to give him that time if we were seeing progress on the field, and him taking advantage of the players he has. I think a lot of the frustration with him, is that we should not have to accept losing to the teams we are losing to. The kids look underprepared for the games and the games plans are baffling when we do not play to a strength, build some sort of identity, and we're not seeing progress in our many weaknesses.

He needs time to change things, but if he's not showing progress, or making the kids competitive, I'm afraid he's not going to get that time before he's shown the door.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[GoHuskers37]

Honestly who knows but I refuse to believe no one could have done better in this situation.

For people who support Riley, saying no one else could do better is the easy way out.

The rest of the country and unbiased fans of college football around the would laugh at the suggestion.

 

[scarletred]

Should have never had a Lawyer make a decision on who to
Hire as a Head Football Coach.

Thank Pearlman for that.

 

[jflores]

See here is one difference IMO between a Saban/Meyer type and MR. I don't think you have as much locker room division with a Saban/Meyer type. I believe they would actually put their players in position to win. Honestly who knows but I refuse to believe no one could have done better in this situation.

I don't think they have as much issue. But here's the deal. We didn't hire Meyer and Saban.

So you either give the guy you hire the requisite time to turn it around, or you just show him the door for not being Meyer or Saban.

Zatechka kind of summed up the Meyer/Saban issue nicely. The problem with Meyer and Saban is that they are extremely extremely rare coaches, and there are only two of them. And they are currently employed. So outside of those two hires, everyone else you could potentially select is balance between displayed skillsets and downsides. He even went so far as to say that NU is not shopping in the Saban and Meyer tier, we are shopping in the tier that contains coaches like the Pelini's and Gary Anderson's of the world.

 

[HuskerLegion]

Can't wait for HP to retire. The drive to get this program going has to come from the top first and I don't think he cares in the slightest about NU football.

 

[HuskerLegion]

I don't think they have as much issue. But here's the deal. We didn't hire Meyer and Saban.

So you either give the guy you hire the requisite time to turn it around, or you just show him the door for not being Meyer or Saban.

Zatechka kind of summed up the Meyer/Saban issue nicely. The problem with Meyer and Saban is that they are extremely extremely rare coaches, and there are only two of them. And they are currently employed. So outside of those two hires, everyone else you could potentially select is balance between displayed skillsets and downsides. He even went so far as to say that NU is not shopping in the Saban and Meyer tier, we are shopping in the tier that contains coaches like the Pelini's and Gary Anderson's of the world.

I never expected to get a Saban or Meyer type coach I just said that because people are saying no one could do better in this spot and I disagree. Now on the coaching tier thing. There is no way Bo or Gary are at the top of tier 2. That is where we need to look. Who are the best available coaches at the top of tier 2. Also NU is going to have to pony up the dough just like everyone else that wants to win. Go get a great staff with some great recruiters.

 

[jflores]

I never expected to get a Saban or Meyer type coach I just said that because people are saying no one could do better in this spot and I disagree. Now on the coaching tier thing. There is no way Bo or Gary are at the top of tier 2. That is where we need to look. Who are the best available coaches at the top of tier 2. Also NU is going to have to pony up the dough just like everyone else that wants to win. Go get a great staff with some great recruiters.

No they aren't the top of tier 2, in the context of his conversation, tier 2 just means there are busts and successes and every program takes a roll of the dice there.

I like Tom Herman alot. I wouldn't be upset if Tom Herman somehow found his way to Lincoln but I also believe that when you give a guy a responsibility and a contract, it means a little something, probably minimally a Year 1 to Year 2 look. I don't think NU wants to enter the 6 games, 12 games and your out type of evaluation carousel.

 

[HuskerLegion]

No they aren't the top of tier 2, in the context of his conversation, tier 2 just means there are busts and successes and every program takes a roll of the dice there.

I like Tom Herman alot. I wouldn't be upset if Tom Herman somehow found his way to Lincoln but I also believe that when you give a guy a responsibility and a contract, it means a little something, probably minimally a Year 1 to Year 2 look. I don't think NU wants to enter the 6 games, 12 games and your out type of evaluation carousel.

I'm with you on the 6/12 games and your out. However if next year does not show major improvement then it can't be allowed to continue. If they are going to jam their system down the current rosters throat it has to pay off in year 2. And the next time there is a coaching hire the AD should not be allowed to do it alone.

 

[ssmill777]

Don't know how much better Saban or Urban Meyer could have done this year with this team. We are just not a good football team. Plain and simple. I'm not insulting the players. But as in life you get what you put into it and what they've done simply isn't good enough to win. Fact.

These are what ifs I know but the BYU Hail Mary was a fluke. Get one lousy first down against Wisconsin and Illinois those are both Wins for us. The offense didn't get it done. The Defense didn't get the stops they needed when it counted. No coach even Saban or Meyer can't fix those things.

Fire a coach after one year? What coach will want to come here? You tell me.

In a word: LEADERSHIP! If you can't immediately see the difference in leadership between Saban/Urban vs Mike the Bike Riley, I don't know what to say. It's as plain as daylight vs darkness.

 

[Corn_Bred]

In a word: LEADERSHIP! If you can't immediately see the difference in leadership between Saban/Urban vs Mike the Bike Riley, I don't know what to say. It's as plain as daylight vs darkness.

There is a talent gap between what we have and what Saban and Urban Meyer have to work with. Even with their leadership and all of their wizardry could they fix this right now. Our cupboard is bare. We are playing with the best that we have available even when coverage is busted or blocks are missed time and again. Some players have thrown in the towel. Some senior players probably need to be thanked and moved on. Depth needs to built so that when the same mistakes are made, a player gets pulled. It is what it is.

 

[Corn_Bred]

Well, you don't seem to be blaming coaching, so I would say you're insulting the players.

Still not attributing any of this to coaching, and again you seem to be blaming the players.


Hopefully a PROVEN coach at a lower tier school, or an assistant hoping to make the jump to the head coaching ranks. Given Oregon State's displeasure for Riley, had he remained there for another season, and Nebraska had hired and fired someone else after one year, I feel Riley would still jump at the opportunity.

He was well on his way to getting ousted at Oregon State, and for some reason didn't want to retire.

And the fact that you lump Riley in with Saban and Meyer is laughable.

Where was I lumping Riley in with Saban and Meyer? If you had any comprehension skills my point is Saban and Meyer (who are the best out coaches currently in the College level) couldn't fix this mess we are currently in.

There is a talent gap between what we have and what Saban and Urban Meyer have to work with. Our cupboard is bare. Plain and simple. We are playing with the best that we have available even when coverage is busted or blocks are missed time and again. Some players have thrown in the towel. Some senior players probably need to be thanked and moved on. Depth needs to built so that when the same mistakes are made, a player gets pulled. It is what it is.

I won't insult any player that suits up for us. But I will say if you don't want to play hard, play smart, with good fundamentals maybe this game isn't for you. There will ALWAYS be someone more talented than you. If you aren't willing to work hard and be better than the next guy, maybe this game isn't for you. If your heart isn't in to it maybe you should just move on.

I've never had an employer allow me to do nothing or make continual mistakes and still keep my job for any length of time. I wouldn't expect or would want to work for such a company.

 

[HudsonValleyHusker]

So I've been visiting other Husker boards, opposing teams' boards, and various insider boards. From what I can gather among the Husker boards, there seems to be the continued divide between the two factions:

1) The "He needs more time/his players" faction
2) The "Well, this obviously isn't working out" faction

Among the the opposing teams' boards, of the few teams actually talking about Nebraska (most are just laughing), few think Riley was a good hire.

There are rumblings that a certain Regent at Nebraska is trying to stir the pot, and get the wheels turning as far as ousting Eichorst and perhaps Riley. These rumblings were obviously followed by the normal back and forth we see on these boards, with some saying "you're crazy, dude" and others saying "yeah, well you're crazy, dude."

And that leads the same arguments we currently see on every Husker board:

1) Riley needs more time
2) Pelini wouldn't have won more with this team
3) Frost wouldn't have won more with this team
4) Etc.

For me personally, I think what troubles me most isn't whether Frost would've won with this current Nebraska roster, as I would be willing to give a young HC with Nebraska roots and love time.

It troubles me that there is in fact a difference between who/what coach we should be "giving time," in my opinion.

Callahan deserved time because he had never coached in the college ranks as a head coach, and like it or not, the game is different than the NFL. He also recruited like a rock star.

Pelini deserved time because he had also never coached in the college ranks as a head coach, and he took a team that was 5-7 in 2007, and won 9 games the next. He followed that year up with back-to-back 10-win seasons. Then he basically doused himself in gasoline, lit a match, and asked the Nebraska administration to put out the fire. And they did.

Now we have Riley, a 62 year-old coach with a 30-year head coaching history and a .500 winning percentage. Here is where I question whether this coach "needs time."

This dude already knows the game of college football, having already coached for 15 years in D-1 college football. And considering the fact that he spent 14 of those years at the same institution, one has to wonder why we should expect anything better from this coach who has had nothing but time.

When Eichorst went on his one-man-band coaching search and hired Riley, we were told Riley would be able to win at Nebraska easier, because he didn't have the resources at Oregon State he will have at Nebraska.

But when looking at his 2016 recruiting class, he isn't exactly setting the world ablaze. I would believe he'll have NU finish ranked lower-ranked as a class than any of his predecessors, or pretty much since recruiting services/rankings began being published.

And that's pretty much what Riley has done his entire career: take something and make it worse.

Over his 14-year career at Oregon State, Riley won 9 or more games 4 times, with his apex being a 10-win season in 2006.

This is an honest question: Does this guy really need more time to install his system? Injuries happen to every team in college football, and the roster Mike Riley inherited and started the 2015 season with was likely the most talented he's ever had.

He is likely heading down the path of a 3-9 season, with his wins being over:

- South Alabama

- Southern Miss

- Minnesota

And I don't even want to discuss some of the poor teams he lost to with lesser talent.

Can someone please show me the light? Because I'm really having a hard time seeing it.

Very succinct and accurate. This is a bad hire and it is hard to apply a positive spin to this debacle.

 

[Mr.Scary13]

See here is one difference IMO between a Saban/Meyer type and MR. I don't think you have as much locker room division with a Saban/Meyer type. I believe they would actually put their players in position to win. Honestly who knows but I refuse to believe no one could have done better in this situation.

Maybe you haven't watched a lot of Nebraska football this year, because the team has been put in position to win every game this year with the exception of Purdue and have failed miserably every single time.

 

[ssmill777]

There is a talent gap between what we have and what Saban and Urban Meyer have to work with. Even with their leadership and all of their wizardry could they fix this right now. Our cupboard is bare. We are playing with the best that we have available even when coverage is busted or blocks are missed time and again. Some players have thrown in the towel. Some senior players probably need to be thanked and moved on. Depth needs to built so that when the same mistakes are made, a player gets pulled. It is what it is.

I'll go out on a limb and say with Urban - we would have a winning record this yr. Just with his knowledge, leadership, player management, clock management, hiring quality assistants and not just old buddies, etc. What bothers me is - we are 9 games into the season and still don't know who is the best RB. We are still not getting the corners any help and teams are still "burning" us for long gains/TD's. QB's that haven't run successfully against anyone else are running (and passing) for career-best games. And don't get me started on Langsdorf - he has regressed in his play-calling to the point that's it very hard to watch. Don't take my word for it - listen to what former coaches Mason & Dinardo are saying on the B1G network. They are dumb-founded at the coaching decisions right now. They can't believe what they are seeing because they think we have some very good athletes, yet we are struggling greatly.

 

[jflores]

I'll go out on a limb and say with Urban - we would have a winning record this yr. Just with his knowledge, leadership, player management, clock management, hiring quality assistants and not just old buddies, etc. What bothers me is - we are 9 games into the season and still don't know who is the best RB. We are still not getting the corners any help and teams are still "burning" us for long gains/TD's. QB's that haven't run successfully against anyone else are running (and passing) for career-best games. And don't get me started on Langsdorf - he has regressed in his play-calling to the point that's it very hard to watch. Don't take my word for it - listen to what former coaches Mason & Dinardo are saying on the B1G network. They are dumb-founded at the coaching decisions right now. They can't believe what they are seeing because they think we have some very good athletes, yet we are struggling greatly.

Serious questions remain, for sure. Even as upbeat as the former players are about staying the course for a little while longer, most have brought changes they'd like to see.