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IowaHuskerFan3

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The facts are Joe and his staff are idiots.

I could have had every person in the world wanting a vaccine.
Just tell them they can’t have it and they would be begging to get it.
Maybe they should have had Gucci market it for them. 😂
His credibility is gone
 

dee_s3

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Isn’t this the entire point of capitalism. You make something that is a complete game changer in the medical field, you get paid for it.
Explain the greater transfer of wealth in history? Explain Amazon, Microsoft, Walmart ect ect were able to capitalize? Explain Blackrock getting out ahead and buying up all properties. 10 trillion dollars were split between these billionaires. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Have you ever dealt with monkey pox?
 
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damcde

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Explain the greater transfer of wealth in history? Explain Amazon, Microsoft, Walmart ect ect were able to capitalize? Explain Blackrock getting out ahead and buying up all properties. 10 trillion dollars were split between these billionaires. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Have you ever dealt with monkey pox?
Because our system is fvcked and way too top heavy. It has been for a long time now, and continues to get worse. The pandemic grew the gap even more which sucks.

But I fail to see how this relates to these companies that made a new tool making a bunch of money off of that tool. Once again, isn’t that the entire point of capitalism. (I will admit I am being facetious here, as I don’t really understand why any one needs billions of dollars.)

I have not dealt with Monkey Pox. I have dealt with Vaccinia quite a bit (which is used for the small pox vaccine), but not monkey pox. That shvt is nasty. Do you guys have someone that was exposed from the flight? I believe you said work in the ICU. Do they have you get the small pox vaccine for that?
 

dee_s3

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Because our system is fvcked and way too top heavy. It has been for a long time now, and continues to get worse. The pandemic grew the gap even more which sucks.

But I fail to see how this relates to these companies that made a new tool making a bunch of money off of that tool. Once again, isn’t that the entire point of capitalism. (I will admit I am being facetious here, as I don’t really understand why any one needs billions of dollars.)

I have not dealt with Monkey Pox. I have dealt with Vaccinia quite a bit (which is used for the small pox vaccine), but not monkey pox. That shvt is nasty. Do you guys have someone that was exposed from the flight? I believe you said work in the ICU. Do they have you get the small pox vaccine for that?
They gave us heads up after someone was exposed at our sister hospital coming from Texas. We have been dealing with Rsv coming from Texas and they seem worried about it coming our way. I read our handouts and that crap looks nasty. To be honest, I thought it was joke when they first brought it up in our work community network.
 

damcde

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They gave us heads up after someone was exposed at our sister hospital coming from Texas. We have been dealing with Rsv coming from Texas and they seem worried about it coming our way. I read our handouts and that crap looks nasty. To be honest, I thought it was joke when they first brought it up in our work community network.

That sucks, hopefully nothing comes out of it. If you have been vaccinated for small pox however, then you should be protected (why I asked the question about if they have you get small pox vaccine working at the hospital).

RSV is a bioch in little kids/infants (actually the main virus I studied in Grad School). It is crazy how much it is spreading down here in the South. I know that there have been several infants put in the hospital here. Definitely unexpected for this time of year.
 

dee_s3

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That sucks, hopefully nothing comes out of it. If you have been vaccinated for small pox however, then you should be protected (why I asked the question about if they have you get small pox vaccine working at the hospital).

RSV is a bioch in little kids/infants (actually the main virus I studied in Grad School). It is crazy how much it is spreading down here in the South. I know that there have been several infants put in the hospital here. Definitely unexpected for this time of year.
Sorry, at work now. Yeah, everything is basically mandatory, so better than paying for it. Flu was the last to fall about 4 years ago. Rsv is riddled across the state, but we were ready at the children's hospital.
 
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jbskers

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Isn’t this the entire point of capitalism. You make something that is a complete game changer in the medical field, you get paid for it.
by forcing you to take it.........let that sink in
 

tb233

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by forcing you to take it.........let that sink in

Are you aware of all of the vaccines that kids need to have to go to school? Do you think immunization records and things of that nature are new?
 

JOHNNY N

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Wow! So true!

E7K2xr7WUAI_N1H
Looks like a black guy in a Trump hat with a white liberal telling him how to think. Typical white lib.
 

damcde

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It's not really the point of capitalism.

Why not? A private company makes a product that people need, people pay for that product and the company makes money from that product. Isn't that capitalism?
 

damcde

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by forcing you to take it.........let that sink in

Companies and schools have been forcing people to take vaccines for years. You want to know why? Because they don't want to go back to the 50's and 60's where you have a highly infectious virus that can run through you workplace or school.
 
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JOHNNY N

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Why not? A private company makes a product that people need, people pay for that product and the company makes money from that product. Isn't that capitalism?
Lol. Ok. That's not what happened.
 

JOHNNY N

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Then what happened?
The government made it happen with taxpayers dollars and fast tracking it through the FDA. I mean they could have done this cheap and used safe and proven therapeutics...but that wouldn't make the rich richer.
 

tb233

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The government made it happen with taxpayers dollars and fast tracking it through the FDA. I mean they could have done this cheap and used safe and proven therapeutics...but that wouldn't make the rich richer.

What cheap and proven therapeutics would you have used to create a vaccine?
 

corvettez06

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Companies and schools have been forcing people to take vaccines for years. You want to know why? Because they don't want to go back to the 50's and 60's where you have a highly infectious virus that can run through you workplace or school.
What were the reasons and survival rates in the 50's and 60's vs todays covid 99% percent survival rate without a vaccine?
 

stevehammer

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So explain to me why BLM was allowed to march the streets, but it never affected covid numbers? They were allowed in several countries.
Because most of them were wearing masks and they were outdoors where there is far more dilution of the virus.

You don't get Covid from being exposed to one virus particle. You get it by being exposed to such a high concentration of the virus that many virus particles successfully enter your airway, get into your lungs, attach to a cell, and then successfully penetrate and enter the cell.

The concentration of virus in the air you are breathing is reduced by (a) the infected person wearing a mask, (b) how much the concentration is diluted between when it leaves the person's mouth and it enters your breathing zone, and (c) whether you're wearing a mask. Dilution is controlled by distance from the infected person and how much air movement/dispersion there is and also, whether it's sunny because UV light kills the virus.

We know all of this now. it was, for example, in hindsight incorrect to worry about people at the beach not being masked up. The wind and breezes and the UV light from the sun probably were sufficient to mitigate virus transmission at the beach. But indoors, when people are singing or cheering, for example, is a horrible place to be without everyone (infected people and healthy people) being masked up.

The vaccine changes all of this, because it boosts the immune system to fight off the virus even if exposed to a significant concentration.
 

corvettez06

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Because most of them were wearing masks and they were outdoors where there is far more dilution of the virus.

You don't get Covid from being exposed to one virus particle. You get it by being exposed to such a high concentration of the virus that many virus particles successfully enter your airway, get into your lungs, attach to a cell, and then successfully penetrate and enter the cell.

The concentration of virus in the air you are breathing is reduced by (a) the infected person wearing a mask, (b) how much the concentration is diluted between when it leaves the person's mouth and it enters your breathing zone, and (c) whether you're wearing a mask. Dilution is controlled by distance from the infected person and how much air movement/dispersion there is and also, whether it's sunny because UV light kills the virus.

We know all of this now. it was, for example, in hindsight incorrect to worry about people at the beach not being masked up. The wind and breezes and the UV light from the sun probably were sufficient to mitigate virus transmission at the beach. But indoors, when people are singing or cheering, for example, is a horrible place to be without everyone (infected people and healthy people) being masked up.

The vaccine changes all of this, because it boosts the immune system to fight off the virus even if exposed to a significant concentration.
You really think the reason BLM wore masks was to prevent the spread of Covid ?
 

damcde

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What were the reasons and survival rates in the 50's and 60's vs todays covid 99% percent survival rate without a vaccine?

Polio has less than one percent chance of inducing paralysis. The majority of people either are asymptomatic or have GI symptoms. But yet we vaccinated against it because once it hit a school, it would spread like wildfire. So not just one kid would get it, but everyone would. Measles was about 1 in 1000 CDR, although that was higher for kids. Mumps and rubella were both lower than this.

These are the exact same thing with COVID. But this is the first disease in most peoples lifetime that we have had to deal with like this.
 

damcde

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The government made it happen with taxpayers dollars and fast tracking it through the FDA. I mean they could have done this cheap and used safe and proven therapeutics...but that wouldn't make the rich richer.

But these weren’t the only companies to receive government funding. Novavax uses technology that has been used before, as does GSK’s. However, the advantage of the mRNA and Viral Vector vaccines is that they are much faster to make than old technology. Novavax was “fast tracked” the exact same way that the other vaccines. But this fast tracking still involved all three phases of the clinical trials, with the same amount of people with other vaccines.

You are acting like these technologies were already researched for decades before COVID. I mean Moderna had two phase I trials already completed, and Johnson and Johnson already had a vaccine that was used to the last Ebola outbreak. These didn’t just come out of nowhere.
 

dee_s3

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Because most of them were wearing masks and they were outdoors where there is far more dilution of the virus.

You don't get Covid from being exposed to one virus particle. You get it by being exposed to such a high concentration of the virus that many virus particles successfully enter your airway, get into your lungs, attach to a cell, and then successfully penetrate and enter the cell.

The concentration of virus in the air you are breathing is reduced by (a) the infected person wearing a mask, (b) how much the concentration is diluted between when it leaves the person's mouth and it enters your breathing zone, and (c) whether you're wearing a mask. Dilution is controlled by distance from the infected person and how much air movement/dispersion there is and also, whether it's sunny because UV light kills the virus.

We know all of this now. it was, for example, in hindsight incorrect to worry about people at the beach not being masked up. The wind and breezes and the UV light from the sun probably were sufficient to mitigate virus transmission at the beach. But indoors, when people are singing or cheering, for example, is a horrible place to be without everyone (infected people and healthy people) being masked up.

The vaccine changes all of this, because it boosts the immune system to fight off the virus even if exposed to a significant concentration.
We were using supportive care at first and thats why people were dying being on a ventilator. This is beyond my pay grade, so I will tell you what my Dr's. told me. Basically patients are having organizing pneumonia, which is dry and inflamed, unlike bacterial that is wet. So basically patients were dying because of trial and error. Now, we know they are hyperinflammed, clots, and have dry organizing pneumonia. Corticosteroids are the best treatment for the pneumonia, so our chronic Covid-19 are making full recovery now.

Science didn't prove that the mask work and you saying something as silly as BLM wore then is more of a joke. This virus is .1 micron, which is pretty big from my understanding, but still can pass through mask pretty easy. Dr have expressed wearing mask and how it's a two way filtration that keeps all types of nasty stuff, so it's not like the one way flow of N95. I agree with you on the social distancing, but they still haven't pin pointed the exact transmission route.

The UV light makes sense, but this administration isn't using preventive care or treatments. Matter of fact, this administration is using Big tech as a arm of the law and censoring information. So, I would rather listen to a doctor that treats patients daily, than a flip flopping bureaucrat.

Over in the UK they had more suicides, than Covid-19 deaths. The best thing we could do is look out for the old, sickly, and compromised. Lockdowns were proven not to work and Sweden seems to have their shvt together.

You also can't take what they say seriously, when the border is a open gate. People are testing positive and being dumped into our backyard, which tells me our spike can be from them. Can't be taken seriously, when you give illegals a option on the vaccine.
 

ScarletNCream

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It's sad that you complain about a worldwide rally for FREEDOM. You sick socialists can't live without oppressively government. Move to North Korea you traitors!!

I agree with your personal choice stance, however your gumption to fight for the “I want to be an idiot” stance, does make it difficult
 

damcde

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This virus is .1 micron, which is pretty big from my understanding, but still can pass through mask pretty easy.

The virus spreads in respiratory droplets. The majority of the transmission appears to be droplet, which is greater that 5 micron. Although there is evidence for aerosol, which still are going to be larger than 0.1 micron. I read a paper a while ago, I would have to find it, rhay estimated that the average size of of droplets for SARS-CoV-2 was 4-5 microns. Which at this point there are several papers that demonstrate even cloth masks being able to filtrate droplets in this range. It isn’t 100 percent (40-60 percent in most papers I have seen). Surface spread (ie fomite spread) has been very rare to my knowledge.

What does UV light make sense for? To use on people? I’d prefer not to use something that induces thymine dimers in my DNA personally.
 

dee_s3

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The virus spreads in respiratory droplets. The majority of the transmission appears to be droplet, which is greater that 5 micron. Although there is evidence for aerosol, which still are going to be larger than 0.1 micron. I read a paper a while ago, I would have to find it, rhay estimated that the average size of of droplets for SARS-CoV-2 was 4-5 microns. Which at this point there are several papers that demonstrate even cloth masks being able to filtrate droplets in this range. It isn’t 100 percent (40-60 percent in most papers I have seen). Surface spread (ie fomite spread) has been very rare to my knowledge.

What does UV light make sense for? To use on people? I’d prefer not to use something that induces thymine dimers in my DNA personally.
Yeah, I have heard conflicting reports on transmission and size. UV lights is something they were spreading around to kill the virus, which I haven't read up on, but at this point I'm up for anything. We have spiked, but it's just numbers. They come at once and we slowly get them out. Back to the UV lights. I figured if it worked, someone or government would have cornered the market on UV cleaners. Explain to me this, so the vaccine is basically blocking the lung receptors from the disease? I was curious of your opinion and explanation.
 

damcde

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Yeah, I have heard conflicting reports on transmission and size. UV lights is something they were spreading around to kill the virus, which I haven't read up on, but at this point I'm up for anything. We have spiked, but it's just numbers. They come at once and we slowly get them out. Back to the UV lights. I figured if it worked, someone or government would have cornered the market on UV cleaners. Explain to me this, so the vaccine is basically blocking the lung receptors from the disease? I was curious of your opinion and explanation.


I see, you are talking about for using on surfaces etc. UV-C definitely will kill the virus. It kills most microbes and viruses, and what we use for our biosafety cabinets. I will note that there are different types of UV (UV-A, B and C), each increasing in their ability to kill viruses and bacteria. UV-C is by far the best at this and most commonly used. However, UV has some problems. It has to directly interact with the virus to kill it and it does not have very good penetrating power (a plastic lid on bacteria plate is enough to block it). Also it screws up our cells so you have to make sure that you don't expose people. But for flat surfaces it is great. Also, you can use it in air filtration systems.

As for the vaccine, it does a couple of things (this may be a little long sorry). The main thing is that it induces antibodies, which is primarily what you hear about. Antibodies bind to the virus spike protein on the actual full virus. In this binding to the spike protein, it prevents the virus's spike protein from being able to interact with ACE-2 (its host receptor). If it can’t interact with the host receptor, then it can't infect the cell. If it can't infect the cell, it can't make more of itself. This is what we call neutralization, and what is being referred to when you hear neutralizing antibodies or neutralization assays. Also, in doing this, the antibodies direct the virus to innate immune cells like macrophages, which basically "eat" and digest the virus. So you block it from getting in the cell, and then direct it to cells that will kill it.

The other part of the adaptive immune system is T cells. CD4 T cells are important for activating a good antibody response, as well as activating innate cells that will eat the antibody covered virus (we call it opsonized virus). They are the mediator of the immune response as a whole. CD8 T cells on the other hand will recognize cells if they have been infected with the virus. Our cells have ways of knowing that something isnt right, and will present viral antigens on their surface. If CD8 T cells see this, they tell the cell to die, which prevents the virus from completing its life cycle. CD8 T cells are really important for controlling and eliminating the virus upon first exposure. In the setting for memory (which is what it is for vaccine), they serve as a back up for any virus that gets past the antibody response described above.

One of the important things about T cells is that unlike antibodies, which recognize the viral proteins in their 3D structure, they recognize chopped up linear pieces of the protein. This is important because for antibodies, you can have a mutation of the viral protein not at the antibody binding site, but if you alter the structure of the protein you can reduce the ability of the antibody to bind to it (i.e. what we see with the variants). However, for T cells, the viral protein has to mutate in the specific region where the T cell recognizes (even with that there is some wiggle room usually). So T cells typically are not near as susceptible to mutations reducing their responsiveness as antibodies are. But the downfall is that the virus will infect the cell, so you still can be infected. However, that infection should be stopped quickly by the T cells.

I hope this makes sense.
 
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dee_s3

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I see, you are talking about for using on surfaces etc. UV-C definitely will kill the virus. It kills most microbes and viruses, and what we use for our biosafety cabinets. I will note that there are different types of UV (UV-A, B and C), each increasing in their ability to kill viruses and bacteria. UV-C is by far the best at this and most commonly used. However, UV has some problems. It has to directly interact with the virus to kill it and it does not have very good penetrating power (a plastic lid on bacteria plate is enough to block it). Also it screws up our cells so you have to make sure that you don't expose people. But for flat surfaces it is great. Also, you can use it in air filtration systems.

As for the vaccine, it does a couple of things (this may be a little long sorry). The main thing is that induces antibodies, which is primarily what you hear about. Antibodies bind to the virus spike protein on the actual full virus. In this binding to the spike protein, it prevents the virus's spike protein from being able to interact with ACE-2 (its host receptor). If it can interact with the host receptor, then it can't infect the cell. If it can't infect the cell, it can't make more of itself. This is what we call neutralization, and what is being referred to when you hear neutralizing antibodies or neutralization assays. Also, in doing this, the antibodies direct the virus to innate immune cells like macrophages, which basically "eat" and digest the virus. You you block it from getting in the cell, and then direct it to cells that will kill it.

The other part of the adaptive immune system is T cells. CD4 T cells are important for activating a good antibody response, as well as activating innate cells that will eat the antibody covered virus (we call it opsonized virus). The are the mediator of the immune response as a whole. CD8 T cells one the other hand will recognize cells if they have been infected with the virus. Our cells have ways of knowing that something isnt right, and will present viral antigens on their surface. If CD8 T cells see this, they tell the cell to die, which prevents the virus from completing its life cycle. CD8 T cells are really important for controlling and eliminating the virus upon first exposure. In the setting for memory (which is what it is for vaccine), they serve as a back up for any virus that gets past the antibody response described above.

One of the important things about T cells is that unlike antibodies, which recognize the viral proteins in their 3D structure, they recognize chopped up linear pieces of the protein. This is important because for antibodies, you can have a mutation of the viral protein not at the antibody binding site, but if you alter the structure of the protein you can reduce the ability of the antibody to bind to it (i.e. what we see with the variants). However, for T cells, the viral protein has to mutate in the specific region where the T cell recognizes (even with that there is some wiggle room usually). So T cells typically are not near as susceptible to mutations reducing their responsiveness as antibodies are. But the downfall is that the virus will infect the cell, so you still can be infected. However, that infection should be stopped quickly by the T cells.

I hope this makes sense.
Actually it does and thanks for taking the time. I feel like I'm back in Micro.
 
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Hyattea

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Why not? A private company makes a product that people need, people pay for that product and the company makes money from that product. Isn't that capitalism?
It’s obvious you hate capitalism, and you don’t even know what it is.

it’s pretty clear, the corrupt politicians are making a ton of money via policy and the head of big pharma is making way more.

that’s not capitalism.