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OT: Tom Brady GOAT Status

Being athletic and running around and *almost* making amazing plays when you are down by three scores doesn’t make you a great QB. If it did, Taylor Martinez would be the goat.

The chiefs were discombobulated top to bottom. That comes down to leadership. Which QB rallied his guys? Which QB looked lost out there? If KC’s offensive line was so bad, how did they go 15-1 and win so easy in AFC title game. How did they beat TB earlier in the season?

Brady made the plays to win and Mahomes didn’t. First QB to have three touchdowns and 80+% completions in a super bowl. Brady has a great supporting cast, sure, but it’s only great because he is playing there! Tampa doesn’t get gronk, fornette, or AB without Brady. They had missed the playoffs every year since 2007.

The first super bowl against the rams? Sure maybe some luck but he lead them down the field to win. The more recent super bowl against the rams? Yes the defense played great, but so did the Rams’ defense with suh and Aaron donald.

Brady already has as many NFC championships as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Matt Ryan and those guys have had decades in the NFC with good to great supporting casts and they’ve managed one each. He also has more Super Bowl wins than any franchise.

You were on here when the playoffs started saying it was embarrassing TB went 11-5. Well, it worked out.

I’ll give you credit though... at least you aren’t saying that Mahomes and Rodgers lost on purpose like another poster.
Blah blah blah. You are clueless. Chiefs lost Eric Fisher in the AFC championship game and their center was the third choice. Couple that with an excellent Tampa Bay defensive line and linebackers and that's the tale of the game. The pocket collapsed immediately 50% of the time on Mahomes. It's like you have an immunity towards facts and logic.
 
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KC’s line was decimated this time around. Both tackles out. One was hurt mid game against Buffalo. KC was fortunate that they had built a big enough lead before it happened, and that Buffalo’s D isn’t as good as Tampa’s.

Your only criteria for evaluating a QB is whether or not they won the game. If they lost, it’s just because of bad leadership from the QB? Did Tom Brady forget how to lead during the 13 seasons in which he didn’t win a Super Bowl? Mahomes knew how to lead last year but suddenly forgot this year?
Fair points, but going up against Garappolo isn't the same as going up against Brady. Mahomes is a great leader, just not as great as Brady.

Yes TB won, but use any criteria you want for last night. Taking care of the ball? Brady. Making third down conversions? Brady. Getting the ball to his playmakers? Brady. Getting into the head of the other teams DBs? Definitely Brady. I guess Mahomes ran around more athletically.

And out of those 13 seasons he didn't win a super bowl? Three super bowl losses and and four AFC title game losses. If you remove ALL his super bowl wins from the equation and just take those Super Bowl and AFC title game losses, he has a better career than 99% of QBs in NFL history.
 
Yes TB won, but use any criteria you want for last night. Taking care of the ball? Brady. Making third down conversions? Brady. Getting the ball to his playmakers? Brady. Getting into the head of the other teams DBs? Definitely Brady. I guess Mahomes ran around more athletically.
QB pressures being 38-5 in favor of Brady is far and away the #1 deciding factor in that game. It’s the reason Brady took better care of the ball, converted third downs, got the ball to his playmakers, and why Mahomes was forced to run around. Mahomes carves defenses from the pocket too... when he has one.

Brady is a better trash talker. Getting into Honey Badger’s head is an example of one of his best attributes. But the fact that you listed all of those other things as if Brady was the reason for them is hilarious. Those were 100% due to the vast disparity in the pressure from the defense.
 
Blah blah blah. You are clueless. Chiefs lost Eric Fisher in the AFC championship game and their center was the third choice. Couple that with an excellent Tampa Bay defensive line and linebackers and that's the tale of the game. The pocket collapsed immediately 50% of the time on Mahomes. It's like you have an immunity towards facts and logic.
Eric Fisher is great, but should his absence completely neutered what people were calling the best offense of all time? Yes, I know other guys were hurt during the regular season and before the season.

Its not really Mahomes' fault... where was the running game? Why not use a Tight End in to chip the DEs?
 
QB pressures being 38-5 in favor of Brady is far and away the #1 deciding factor in that game. It’s the reason Brady took better care of the ball, converted third downs, got the ball to his playmakers, and why Mahomes was forced to run around. Mahomes carves defenses from the pocket too... when he has one.

Brady is a better trash talker. Getting into Honey Badger’s head is an example of one of his best attributes. But the fact that you listed all of those other things as if Brady was the reason for them is hilarious. Those were 100% due to the vast disparity in the pressure from the defense.
Every time Brady succeeds at the absolute highest level there is a ridiculous "yeah but."

Brady has six rings. "Yeah but look who his HOF coach was."

Brady made the super bowl first year with a new team without HOF coach. "Yeah but look at his supporting cast."

Brady plays lights out with 80% completion percentage and three TDs in the super bowl as the oldest QB ever. "Yeah but KC's offensive line sucks."
 
Every time Brady succeeds at the absolute highest level there is a ridiculous "yeah but."

Brady has six rings. "Yeah but look who his HOF coach was."

Brady made the super bowl first year with a new team without HOF coach. "Yeah but look at his supporting cast."

Brady plays lights out with 80% completion percentage and three TDs in the super bowl as the oldest QB ever. "Yeah but KC's offensive line sucks."

I don't know if you watch very many Kansas City games, but their offensive line was suspect all year long. Mahomes is one of the best in the game at improvising and throwing on the run. It caught up with him last night. Going into the game, knowledgeable fans and all of the national talking heads knew that if the Bucs could pressure with four and drop seven, it could be really tough sledding for the Chiefs offense. It's exactly what happened and the difference between their two units was greater than expected.
 
Every time Brady succeeds at the absolute highest level there is a ridiculous "yeah but."

Brady has six rings. "Yeah but look who his HOF coach was."

Brady made the super bowl first year with a new team without HOF coach. "Yeah but look at his supporting cast."

Brady plays lights out with 80% completion percentage and three TDs in the super bowl as the oldest QB ever. "Yeah but KC's offensive line sucks."
And they are legitimate “yeah buts”.

There have been thousands of QBs in the NFL. Some are bound to be blessed with fortunate circumstances. Brady is perhaps the best player to also have a plethora of fortunate circumstances. Combine those and you get a lot of championships.

The chances that the best QB is also the QB with the most rings is actually pretty low because there are so many other factors that go into winning.
 
I don't know if you watch very many Kansas City games, but their offensive line was suspect all year long. Mahomes is one of the best in the game at improvising and throwing on the run. It caught up with him last night. Going into the game, knowledgeable fans and all of the national talking heads knew that if the Bucs could pressure with four and drop seven, it could be really tough sledding for the Chiefs offense. It's exactly what happened and the difference between their two units was greater than expected.
didn't help that Tampa had 5+ yards available on every handoff
 
didn't help that Tampa had 5+ yards available on every handoff
Yep. Brady was texting Fournette Saturday night that he would get his. He told him that the Chiefs defense was 31st in the league after contact, so lower that shoulder and you'll be fine. He was right. Chiefs got exposed as a poor tackling team overall. Not the honey badger. When he tells you to go down you go down.
 
I get what your saying and there is a grain of truth to it but I wouldn't go that far.

Tell it to Mahomes, who was running for his life and got crunched last night. I'd bet he'd laugh incrediously.

Part of Brady's success is his ability to get rid of the ball and pocket awareness. He's been to 10 now over a number of years. He has to get some credit.
It’s really not the same type of football and the impact that type of physicality had on the mental state of the QB during the game was huge.

He’s one of the greatest, no doubt. If you sneeze next to him they’ll penalize you 15 yards for unnecessary roughness. The other guys literally had people who were allowed to rip their heads off all game and they had to fight through it.

It’s a very legitimate point.
 
Hey Andy, run the ball. Hey Pat, audible into something else. Andy is a fantastic coach, but his stubborness to adjust his style is why he only has 1 ring. Shit, calling those timeouts before the half was enough to convince me that the game was over. The Chiefs were beat in every way possible, and yes, Brady is the best to ever play the position, ever. Just stop.
 
Hey Andy, run the ball. Hey Pat, audible into something else. Andy is a fantastic coach, but his stubborness to adjust his style is why he only has 1 ring. Shit, calling those timeouts before the half was enough to convince me that the game was over. The Chiefs were beat in every way possible, and yes, Brady is the best to ever play the position, ever. Just stop.
Who would be a good replacement for Andy in a couple of years. Let's be honest, he's likely to have some form of cardiac arrest in the near future. I don't want Bienemy. But would they go outside the organization? I wonder who would be a good coach on the younger side, say mid-40s that would be cohesive with Mahomes for many years. The trend now is to hire these boy wonder coaches and it's working out somewhat.
 
Who would be a good replacement for Andy in a couple of years. Let's be honest, he's likely to have some form of cardiac arrest in the near future. I don't want Bienemy. But would they go outside the organization? I wonder who would be a good coach on the younger side, say mid-40s that would be cohesive with Mahomes for many years. The trend now is to hire these boy wonder coaches and it's working out somewhat.
The Bucs OC?
 
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Before the game, I always thought that Brady was just part of the system. But after last night, how can anyone argue. The most important metric is winning. It's a team sport, so winning it all has even more cache.

Oh, it's got cache baby. It's got cache up the ying-yang!

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If I only get one of the above, accomplished is my choice. Got the most out of the other two.
Brady took less money than he could have commanded most of his career. Allowed other parts of the team to have higher paid talent around to raise the margin for error.

Good luck getting one of today's QB's to do that.
 
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Brady is the greatest of all time, it's not even discussion. Brady vs. anybody is farther apart than the MJ vs Lebron debate. So really, any argument is silly and it's just people being contrarian. The money issue is a little different, his wife makes more than he does I think, so he's in a different position than a lot of these younger QB's who are trying to build out a career and a brand for life after football.
 
Good luck getting one of today's QB's to do that.
How much money does he need? Who sits around and argues about which former quarterback has the greatest net worth? ( I think it's Roger Stauback fwiw) no one does! Because they're all rich and can now brag about golf scores or other meaningless things.

Tom's wife has made more money than him. Let that sink in. But Tom has a legacy that I can safely say will never be eclipsed. No one will ever have scoreboard on Tom Brady when it comes to super Bowl championships. Great life, hot wife, plenty of cash, unapproachable record holder. Yeah, he's hitting on all cylinders.
 
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Brady is the greatest of all time, it's not even discussion. Brady vs. anybody is farther apart than the MJ vs Lebron debate. So really, any argument is silly and it's just people being contrarian. The money issue is a little different, his wife makes more than he does I think, so he's in a different position than a lot of these younger QB's who are trying to build out a career and a brand for life after football.
IMO, Joe Montana is number 2. There's no comparison between Montana and Brady.
 
How much money does he need? Who sits around and argues about which former quarterback has the greatest net worth? ( I think it's Roger Stauback fwiw) no one does! Because they're all rich and can now brag about golf scores or other meaningless things.

Tom's wife has made more money than him. Let that sink in. But Tom has a legacy that I can safely say will never be eclipsed. No one will ever have scoreboard on Tom Brady when it comes to super Bowl championships. Great life, hot wife, plenty of cash, unapproachable record holder. Yeah, he's hitting on all cylinders.
not that there's anything wrong with that..
 
How much money does he need? Who sits around and argues about which former quarterback has the greatest net worth? ( I think it's Roger Stauback fwiw) no one does! Because they're all rich and can now brag about golf scores or other meaningless things.

Tom's wife has made more money than him. Let that sink in. But Tom has a legacy that I can safely say will never be eclipsed. No one will ever have scoreboard on Tom Brady when it comes to super Bowl championships. Great life, hot wife, plenty of cash, unapproachable record holder. Yeah, he's hitting on all cylinders.

I always ask the same questions when QB's sign for so much the team can't afford to keep or surround them with more talent. It's another in a long line of reasons why Brady is the GOAT.
 
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I always ask the same questions when QB's sign for so much the team can't afford to keep or surround them with more talent. It's another in a long line of reasons why Brady is the GOAT.
It cracks me up how much guys like Dak think they're worth despite middle of the road careers and no post season accomplishments. Meanwhile, Brady is giving the Patriots the hometown discount for years. Being a top five quarterback in pay while leading a losing team is nothing to brag about. I suspect Deshaun thinks he can escape Houston and go to a contender. Sort of having his cake and eating it too. Nope.
 
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It cracks me up how much guys like Dak think they're worth despite middle of the road careers and no post season accomplishments. Meanwhile, Brady is giving the Patriots the hometown discount for years. Being a top five quarterback in pay while leading a losing team is nothing to brag about. I suspect Deshaun thinks he can escape Houston and go to a contender. Sort of having his cake and eating it too. Nope.

I really dislike Deshaun signing that monster contract then wanting out. He is getting a pass from the media and I don't get it. If you don't wanna be there fine, zero issues with that..but the ink is barely dry on the contract and he's being an ass now.

Dak is not worth anywhere near what he is asking and I hope the Boys let him walk.
 
Dak is not worth anywhere near what he is asking and I hope the Boys let him walk.

He'll leave the building with more of a limp than a walk when they cut him loose and it will be his own fault he didn't sign that big deal they offered him. He doesn't belong in the conversation with Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers or Wilson. And don't get me started on what the Rams paid Jared Goff.
 
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