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OT: Simone Biles out

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Your last statement shows how little you know regardless of what degree you have. Do you think people just wake up one day and realize "I have mental illness"?

I have had two kids very close to me that have struggled. One succeeding in taking his own life and the other attempted but thank God unsuccessfully. Literally no one that was close to either one of them knew anything was wrong.

Maybe she did know before. But I highly doubt she shared much with anyone if she did. The comments and thoughts in the this very thread make it easy to see why people are hesitant to seek help or even admit they need help.

Maybe my standing on my soapbox will help just one person realize there is much more to mental health than most realize. And maybe they will see someone close to them that needs help and recognize it sooner. And maybe that person will wake up tomorrow.

Unfortunately it isn't nearly as simple as some on here would like to believe.
You have an emotional attachment to mental illness that is overbearing your assessment. This is completely understandable given your history.
You are having a hard time understanding that I'm simply saying that while some in our society have an incorrect view that mental illness is controllable and you can just "fix it", the other side has gone way overboard in thinking that everything anyone does means they have mental illness. It is possible that she does not have mental toughness. Not having mental toughness does not mean she has mental illness. Having a "tough time" mentally does not mean she has mental illness. Being flaky, in her own head, a wimp, etc. is not akin to mental illness.
Elevating every doubt, fear, and anxiety to mental illness level is just as damaging to diagnosing and treating true mental illness as those who think it doesn't exist at all.
 
Wow. Did you ever study about PTSD? I have no idea what happened to her today, but to downplay her background is frankly stunning given that you say you have a degree in psychology.
There is a big difference in downplaying her background and thinking her quitting all the sudden has everything to do with her background.
You are also assuming she has PTSD. Does everyone who has ever gone through anything bad have PTSD? Does every child in foster care suffer from hardships?

I never claimed to be an expert in psychology. If you re-read my post, it is clear I was only trying to prove that I am not a complete "novice" and "unaware" of mental illness as was being accused earlier in the thread. I am not an expert and do not claim to be. Do you claim to be?
 
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She, along with the rest of the team, didn't march in the opening ceremonies...her coach said something about how our country gets hosed because of the alphabetical order thang and they have to be on their feet to much so.....yeah, probably. Pretty sure anyway.
I'm just adding to this, listening to Pulp MX show they had on Connor Fields (olympic BMX racer) and he said the same thing, that they stand in line for hours and since he has to ride the next day, most of the bmx'ers skip the opening ceremonies so they don't wear their legs for the next day
 
The entire world (with the US leading the way) is becoming weak and just looking for something to constantly blame things on. Yes, there is mental illness in the world and a lot of people deal with it, but it also becomes a crutch. It seems like everyone now claims they have depression or mental illness or whatever they are dealing with. It's ****ing life. You are going to have to deal with adversity sometimes. Get through it. There are a lot of mentally ill people that do need help and I feel for those types, but come on with some of this shit.
 
You have an emotional attachment to mental illness that is overbearing your assessment. This is completely understandable given your history.
You are having a hard time understanding that I'm simply saying that while some in our society have an incorrect view that mental illness is controllable and you can just "fix it", the other side has gone way overboard in thinking that everything anyone does means they have mental illness. It is possible that she does not have mental toughness. Not having mental toughness does not mean she has mental illness. Having a "tough time" mentally does not mean she has mental illness. Being flaky, in her own head, a wimp, etc. is not akin to mental illness.
Elevating every doubt, fear, and anxiety to mental illness level is just as damaging to diagnosing and treating true mental illness as those who think it doesn't exist at all.
Nah man, I have years of experience, studies, papers, text books, and doctors on my side. All of those things can easily explain what she was going through. I would venture to say you would be hard pressed to find a psychiatrist that would agree with you based on her history and experiences.

Am I passionate? Of course. I honestly can't figure out where your opinion is being driven from. You seem to be completely overlooking her life experiences. And what she went through is literally text book in influencing what she faces now.

So yes, I have passion backed by legitimate science. You have opinions based on..........
 
Without an open and full interview this will be another many blindly support her and others will blindly see this as selfishness or weakness or something else that puts her in a negative light.
From what I’ve seen read and heard this was a known possibility and those around her and herself decide to take the chance to allow this to happen. When the vault issue happened and the team wasn’t in first, this was the result. Sounds like there will be lots of questions going forward and there should be, not just of her but those around her.
Sometimes the building up of someone into the super elite isn’t good before the story is fully written.
 
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There is a big difference in downplaying her background and thinking her quitting all the sudden has everything to do with her background.
You are also assuming she has PTSD. Does everyone who has ever gone through anything bad have PTSD? Does every child in foster care suffer from hardships?

I never claimed to be an expert in psychology. If you re-read my post, it is clear I was only trying to prove that I am not a complete "novice" and "unaware" of mental illness as was being accused earlier in the thread. I am not an expert and do not claim to be. Do you claim to be?
"Does every child in foster care suffer from hardships?"

Why do you down play her life experiences? Her mother fed a stray cat instead of her and her siblings. Her dad was never there. She was separated from her siblings. That was all before the age of 6 years old. Do you honestly not see how that is not normal? And isn't even normal compared to kids that end up in foster care.


You literally just confirmed you are no expert, but then argue with anything presented to you.
 
Nah man, I have years of experience, studies, papers, text books, and doctors on my side. All of those things can easily explain what she was going through. I would venture to say you would be hard pressed to find a psychiatrist that would agree with you based on her history and experiences.

Am I passionate? Of course. I honestly can't figure out where your opinion is being driven from. You seem to be completely overlooking her life experiences. And what she went through is literally text book in influencing what she faces now.

So yes, I have passion backed by legitimate science. You have opinions based on..........
If you think all of psychology is legitimate science then you haven't read as many books and seen as many studies as you think you have. There's plenty of unknowns, contradictions, and opinions.
I don't know what you mean by "where your opinion is coming from". It's coming from...me? It shows me how truly emotionally invested and biased you are in all this when you can't accept that I simply do not think we should jump the gun and automatically assume MENTAL ILLNESS because someone caved. This is not a difficult opinion to understand. Not everything is caused by mental illness. Is this really that difficult? Why?

Any psychiatrist who would diagnose her from a distance based on the events that unfolded would be a worthless psychiatrist.

I'm sure we'll hear plenty of sob stories about how tough all the pressure is over the coming weeks/months, but it doesn't automatically mean she has a mental illness. If you can't handle that opinion, you'll just have to find a way to get over it.

If she truly has a mental illness than I hope she drops all of this olympic stuff which is obviously harming her and gets the help she needs.
 
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"Does every child in foster care suffer from hardships?"

Why do you down play her life experiences? Her mother fed a stray cat instead of her and her siblings. Her dad was never there. She was separated from her siblings. That was all before the age of 6 years old. Do you honestly not see how that is not normal? And isn't even normal compared to kids that end up in foster care.


You literally just confirmed you are no expert, but then argue with anything presented to you.
I am not downplaying her life experiences. You must read and answer my quote in the context of the conversation I was having.

I am not going to assume she has a mental illness. If you want to assume she has a mental illness, I will question your very quick jump to conclusions.

Are you an expert?
 
The snowflakes are the people calling her out for quitting on her team? No one is triggered. But if a NFL QB or NBA MVP quit during a super bowl or NBA finals, they would be criticized to no end. Why is this treated any differently? Why does she get a pass and pat on the back for quitting in the middle of a competition? If her mental health was that bad, she should have never been there in the first place. This is a bad look for someone who wears leotards with bedazzled goats on them. She is unquestionably the most talented gymnast of all time. She is not beyond question or reproach. She didn’t show up ready to compete. She let her team down. Period. That’s not up for debate.
No one is triggered? Why are people in this thread calling her a communist and that she hates freedom?
 
There is a big difference in downplaying her background and thinking her quitting all the sudden has everything to do with her background.
You are also assuming she has PTSD. Does everyone who has ever gone through anything bad have PTSD? Does every child in foster care suffer from hardships?

I never claimed to be an expert in psychology. If you re-read my post, it is clear I was only trying to prove that I am not a complete "novice" and "unaware" of mental illness as was being accused earlier in the thread. I am not an expert and do not claim to be. Do you claim to be?
“I have no idea what happened to her today”.
I’m not claiming to know what happened to SB today. But anyone (not necessarily you) who just labels her as ‘weak’ has no understanding of anxiety, depression, PTSD. I think her extremely successful history makes ‘quitter’ and ‘mentally weak’ much less likely as a cause of today’s actions.
 
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That is one hell of a leap there. Are you a gymnast?
Are you a mayor? A company president, a nation's president?

No it isn't a hell of a leap. You brought it up. I am just taking it to a different section of life. I have never acted, but I will say that the performance sucked. I have never played football at the power 5 level but I will say that so and so is underperforming.

Walking in someone's shoes is a convenient rebuttal to my direct criticism of Biles not doing the right thing at the Olympic trials, when she knew she wasn't in a good place mentally.
 
You don't know what is going through her mind. She could be having panic attacks. The criticism is not fair because people are casting judgment with incomplete information. She's accomplished enough that she deserves the benefit of doubt. We're going to rip on her because she pulled out over mental health? This is not the same thing as the weak-minded tennis pro. That girl was just lazy and cannot handle criticism. I think this is different.
And Brady and James wouldn't have accomplished enough to deserve the benefit of the doubt? Don't move the goal posts. Again, read the stories and go look at her social media, she hasn't been in a good place mentally for a while, this didn't happen last week.
 
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I am not downplaying her life experiences. You must read and answer my quote in the context of the conversation I was having.

I am not going to assume she has a mental illness. If you want to assume she has a mental illness, I will question your very quick jump to conclusions.

Are you an expert?
I am not ever sure how to help you out.

She confirmed in an interview that she is in counseling and on medication. Those things don't normally happen unless someone is diagnosed with some form of mental illness.

But you are right, we should ignore all of those things so we can confirm your opinion that she flaked out.

Good grief. I am out. I hope you have a great day.
 
“I have no idea what happened to her today”.
I’m not claiming to know what happened to SB today. But anyone (not necessarily you) who just labels her as ‘weak’ has no understanding of anxiety, depression, PTSD. I think her extremely successful history makes ‘quitter’ and ‘mentally weak’ much less likely as a cause of today’s actions.
So you are claiming to know she does have mental illness.

Are you an expert?
 
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Are you a mayor? A company president, a nation's president?

No it isn't a hell of a leap. You brought it up. I am just taking it to a different section of life. I have never acted, but I will say that the performance sucked. I have never played football at the power 5 level but I will say that so and so is underperforming.

Walking in someone's shoes is a convenient rebuttal to my direct criticism of Biles not doing the right thing at the Olympic trials, when she knew she wasn't in a good place mentally.
How can you state that she wasn't in a good place mentally? She is quoted below as being comfortable coming in.


“I felt pretty comfortable coming into the Olympic Games and then I don't know what happened,” she said. “ ... You wind up in a stressful situation and you don’t know how to handle all those emotions.”

Suddenly, it all crumbled and there was nothing she could do to stop the slide. Even if it didn’t make sense, even as everyone told her otherwise, she couldn’t shake her feelings, couldn’t beat back the demons.
 
So you are claiming to know she does have mental illness.

Are you an expert?
Let me repeat my original quote again: “ I have no idea what happened to her today”—

to answer your question: I’m a physician, and yes, actively consult on patients with mental illness.
 
How can you state that she wasn't in a good place mentally? She is quoted below as being comfortable coming in.


“I felt pretty comfortable coming into the Olympic Games and then I don't know what happened,” she said. “ ... You wind up in a stressful situation and you don’t know how to handle all those emotions.”

Suddenly, it all crumbled and there was nothing she could do to stop the slide. Even if it didn’t make sense, even as everyone told her otherwise, she couldn’t shake her feelings, couldn’t beat back the demons.
So someone, who you have claimed to have some sort of mental illness, says they are good a week ago and we are supposed to take that at face value. But that same person 2 months ago says things like pressure is starting to mount and not being in a good space mentally, and that is to be ignored?

You can't have it both ways.
 
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Again, look at social media posts from weeks ago, not what she said this week. At that time, she was writing about the pressures and not being in a good space mentally.
I will agree with you that someone should have recognized it.

But don't really blame her. I suppose that is where we differ.
 
Let me repeat my original quote again: “ I have no idea what happened to her today”—

to answer your question: I’m a physician, and yes, actively consult on patients with mental illness.
Pfffff, what do you know.
 
Let me repeat my original quote again: “ I have no idea what happened to her today”—

to answer your question: I’m a physician, and yes, actively consult on patients with mental illness.
Well it's good to know you have some credibility.

In your expert opinion, is it possible for people who have had a difficult upbringing to "cave" under pressure even if they don't have mental illness? Or do all who cave under pressure and have a difficult upbringing automatically have mental illness?


(In reading more I had no idea Biles was on psychiatric medications. But, neither did anyone else when the debate here first began, and anyone honest will admit that. I stand by my refusal to automatically assume that anyone who caves under pressure has mental illness. It's thrown around too much to explain away every feeling and failure and frankly there is currently a problem of over-medicating children for other reasons.)
 
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So someone, who you have claimed to have some sort of mental illness, says they are good a week ago and we are supposed to take that at face value. But that same person 2 months ago says things like pressure is starting to mount and not being in a good space mentally, and that is to be ignored?

You can't have it both ways.
Someone certainly should have recognized that.

People with mental illness aren't the best at recognizing when things are getting worse. The do weird things like stopping medications and convince themselves they are OK. Until something triggers it and blows up.

Someone you you won't admit to having mental illness has actually shared she does. Has shared she was being treated with counseling and medication. Has a history that clearly would lead any psychiatrist to come to the conclusion that she has some form of mental illness.

There is far more evidence that my claim is valid. What do you have that supports that she doesn't?

So to be clear, is your argument she doesn't have a mental illness? And what is that based on if so?

Or is it that regardless of having mental illness she should have recognized she wasn't in a good place and stepped out of her spot?
 
Well it's good to know you have some credibility.

In your expert opinion, is it possible for people who have had a difficult upbringing to "cave" under pressure even if they don't have mental illness? Or do all who cave under pressure and have a difficult upbringing automatically have mental illness?


(In reading more I had no idea Biles was on psychiatric medications. But, neither did anyone else when the debate here first began, and anyone honest will admit that. I stand by my refusal to automatically assume that anyone who caves under pressure has mental illness. It's thrown around too much to explain away every feeling and failure and frankly there is currently a problem of over-medicating children for other reasons.)
I posted an article and said it multiple times in this freakin thread she was on meds and in counseling.

And of course not all people who have a difficult upbringing cave under pressure or have mental illness.

But those with difficult upbringings are at a much higher risk. And the magnitude of difficulty coupled with the age (in her case extremely early) only increase the likelihood.

We shouldn't even be comparing her upbringing to a "difficult upbringing". A drug addict mother that basically starved her in favor of a stray cat. No father. Separated from her siblings. And then sexually abused in her teens by a figure of authority in her life.

So I get your point. There certainly are many people that use mental illness as a crutch. And that likely happens often. But I don't see based on what has gone on with her, how anyone would try to argue that she doesn't struggle with mental illness. And that is what this entire debate has been about.
 
Here's another thing I saw.

Some reporter at the Olympics used the rationale that Simone was feeling extra pressure because the judges were judging her differently than the other athletes because she is so much more advanced than everyone else, resulting in her not getting the points she deserved....

(which probably messed with her ability to perform.)

I find this very interesting.

It would be tough to prove judges were behaving in such a way, but what if they were? What would people think of that? I have my take but curious of others'.
 
I posted an article and said it multiple times in this freakin thread she was on meds and in counseling.

And of course not all people who have a difficult upbringing cave under pressure or have mental illness.

But those with difficult upbringings are at a much higher risk. And the magnitude of difficulty coupled with the age (in her case extremely early) only increase the likelihood.

We shouldn't even be comparing her upbringing to a "difficult upbringing". A drug addict mother that basically starved her in favor of a stray cat. No father. Separated from her siblings. And then sexually abused in her teens by a figure of authority in her life.

So I get your point. There certainly are many people that use mental illness as a crutch. And that likely happens often. But I don't see based on what has gone on with her, how anyone would try to argue that she doesn't struggle with mental illness. And that is what this entire debate has been about.
You first posted in this "freakin" thread that she was on meds and in counseling in post #83 on page number 3, after you had already made numerous posts.

You did not know she was on meds and in counseling (although every athlete is in counseling, so let's focus on the meds) when this debate began. If you are claiming you did, you are a liar.

I understand that you don't see it. You are obviously very emotional about all this, which is understandable. I do not, and will not, jump to conclusions that someone who cracks is mentally ill, or that everyone who has suffered has mental illness because of it. It's ok that you don't get it, really.
 
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You first posted in this "freakin" thread that she was on meds and in counseling in post #83 on page number 3, after you had already made numerous posts.

You did not know she was on meds and in counseling (although every athlete is in counseling, so let's focus on the meds) when this debate began. If you are claiming you did, you are a liar.

I understand that you don't see it. You are obviously very emotional about all this, which is understandable. I do not, and will not, jump to conclusions that someone who cracks is mentally ill, or that everyone who has suffered has mental illness because of it. It's ok that you don't get it, really.
You are correct, didn't post that until well into the debate.

But based off her comments, all of the stories on her, and her history it is very clear. Her stating she was on meds only helped confirm.

You have not wanted to listen to anything anyone would say about her history and instead would say well not everyone has mental illness that had a difficult upbringing.

Literally there is a preponderance amount of evidence she has issues, yet you still wanted to claim she might not. You are right, she might not. But it is much more likely she does.

And quit with the emotional attachment. At least I have a reason to be passionate. Why the heck are you so enriched that she flaked out or is mentally weak?
 
You are correct, didn't post that until well into the debate.

But based off her comments, all of the stories on her, and her history it is very clear. Her stating she was on meds only helped confirm.

You have not wanted to listen to anything anyone would say about her history and instead would say well not everyone has mental illness that had a difficult upbringing.

Literally there is a preponderance amount of evidence she has issues, yet you still wanted to claim she might not. You are right, she might not. But it is much more likely she does.

And quit with the emotional attachment. At least I have a reason to be passionate. Why the heck are you so enriched that she flaked out or is mentally weak?
Passionate does not automatically mean correct.

So, since by your judgement I don't have a good enough reason to care, according to you I shouldn't have an opinion?

"You are right, she might not." There. You just proved that my opinion is fine. Literally.

Again, I will not automatically assume someone has mental illness because they cave and/or have a difficult background, or are having a tough time. I will continue to approach these situations the same.

Our debate regarding this should be sufficiently closed. I understand your viewpoint, you obviously understand mine as quoted above, and it's likely a moot debate anyway if she's on psychiatric medication. Maybe we'll find out what for.
Should she have been there? I dunno.
 
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Passionate does not automatically mean correct.

So, since by your judgement I don't have a good enough reason to care, according to you I shouldn't have an opinion?

"You are right, she might not." There. You just proved that my opinion is fine. Literally.

Again, I will not automatically assume someone has mental illness because they cave and/or have a difficult background, or are having a tough time. I will continue to approach these situations the same.

Our debate regarding this should be sufficiently closed. I understand your viewpoint, you obviously understand mine as quoted above, and it's likely a moot debate anyway if she's on psychiatric medication. Maybe we'll find out what for.
Should she have been there? I dunno.
Lol and stubborn doesn't make you right either!

Peace out and be good to those around you. Please try to be aware and accepting when you do run into someone that might need help.
 
You're assuming I don't have a clue about mental health. That would be wrong. One of my degrees has "psychology" on it. I do not believe having a degree makes me smart nor intelligent. But I say that so you stop thinking I don't care about or understand mental illness. I'm not an expert in it but not a novice either.

Mental illness is serious but it's used far too much as a crutch and overplayed when it really isn't mental illness but simply mental weakness. I have a hard time believing she just found out now she has legit mental illness.

Well said.. mental illness and weakness are two vastly different things.
 
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