OT: mRNA vaccines moves to the flu

[dinglefritz]

Go back and read some of dinglfritz (sp?) posts inn this . Vaccines are not new. They been around for a long time. There has been research on vaccines for other types of viruses (common colds) to build on. There were literally millions of patients to easily enroll in studies (half the time research is held up by a lack of appropriate patients). This was a moon shot, the whole fricking world came together to makes this happen. It isn’t perfect (nothing is), but if it doesn’t work, why have 99 percent of those who have died in the past 2 months been unvaccinated?

In fact the original SARS virus outbreak occurred occurred in February of 2003 in SE Asia (China cuogh cough.). The medical community began work on a vaccine at that time and there was one tested in primates at Oxford and it would have been rolled out had SARS not died out. Fun fact is that the Middle Eastern SARS virus is still circulating and camels seem to be a host for that virus and transmit it to humans.

I said early on that we could have a vaccine ready for COVID in less than a year. In fact, had the CDC, NIH and FDA not drug their heels (I believe in an anti-Trump move) it would have been available weeks earlier. IMO they delayed release of the vaccine until after the election on purpose. The level of safety of this vaccine is on par with the childhood vaccines that virtually every child in this country gets....except those with morons for parents.

I would say that 17 years is a long enough time to research and develop a vaccine against a Corona virus considering that we've been giving Corona virus vaccines to our livestock FOR DECADES.

 

[Harry Caray]

I’ve lost track of which conspiracy theories are the hot topic lately: Clinton’s running a sex slave business in the basement of a pizza shop? Sandy Hook didn’t happen? Doctors don’t want covid to end? Sorry, it’s hard to keep up. ‘Censorship in medicine isn’t censorship. It means your study didn’t pass basic research protocols and was rejected by a peer review committee. It’s the way it’s been forever. It’s been that way long before the Republican Party became the party of conspiracy theories and couldn’t have cared less about a science journal. There are a ton of peer reviewed journals out there. If you can’t get published, the issue isn’t with the journals, it means your research is crap/faulty/too many errors.

Remember when Biden and Harris told voters not to trust a vaccine developed during Trump's presidency 😆

 

[schuele]

IMO they delayed release of the vaccine until after the election on purpose.

And yet the first person on the face of the Earth to receive an approved vaccine got her shot more than a month after the U.S. election.

Apparently Boris Johnson and Benjamin Netanyahu were in on this grand conspiracy that you've repeated 1,000 times.

 

[Crazyhole]

In fact the original SARS virus outbreak occurred occurred in February of 2003 in SE Asia (China cuogh cough.). The medical community began work on a vaccine at that time and there was one tested in primates at Oxford and it would have been rolled out had SARS not died out. Fun fact is that the Middle Eastern SARS virus is still circulating and camels seem to be a host for that virus and transmit it to humans.

I said early on that we could have a vaccine ready for COVID in less than a year. In fact, had the CDC, NIH and FDA not drug their heels (I believe in an anti-Trump move) it would have been available weeks earlier. IMO they delayed release of the vaccine until after the election on purpose. The level of safety of this vaccine is on par with the childhood vaccines that virtually every child in this country gets....except those with morons for parents.

I would say that 17 years is a long enough time to research and develop a vaccine against a Corona virus considering that we've been giving Corona virus vaccines to our livestock FOR DECADES.

You just dropped your pants on this one.

Which mRNA vaccines have ever been used on livestock for coronavirus?

Which mRNA vaccines have ever been approved for humans?

Which drug of any kind has Moderna ever brought to market?

 

[leodisflowers]

Offer data and Antwill, Drubendall, TruHusker, leodisflower, and beautifuldayintheneighborhood circle jerk antivax talking points. Rinse repeat.

Whatever videos you are watching has you feeling like experts. Someone mentioned ADE - lol who on this board is qualified to speculate on ADE? Had you even heard of it before antivax movement introduced you to it? Consider the side you are aligned with has talked about microchips being injected and becoming magnetized.

An evolutionary biologist championing Ivermectin? Ivermectin was being reported as the savior keeping India’s covid cases low until they weren’t low anymore. Has anyone seen the list of side effects of Ivermectin?
- Irregular heartbeat
- Trouble breathing
- Confusion
- Seizures
- LOC
- Fatal encephalopathy

Randomized trials are coming out and showing some benefit with Ivermectin but the published meta analysis is showing that the really well done studies are showing much more mild benefit than the studies that aren’t as well controlled. It certainly does not look like a silver bullet, though it may very well become some standard of care in some cases as these studies continue to publish.

Some nurses aren’t taking the vaccine? Ok. What percentage of physicians aren’t? This goes back to consensus medical opinion. Dissenting voices are important but why are you giving them more weight than 99.9% (this number is spouted a lot in these threads) of their colleagues who feel otherwise?

The regulatory bodies are keeping a close eye on safety of these vaccines. Why would physicians ignore safety when almost all of them have taken the vaccine? Can anyone answer why their doctor would take the vaccine if there is some giant medical conspiracy to kill the population? Recently a warning about GBS was issued for the J&J vaccine in men over 50 between days 14 and 42. The incidence is 3-5 in a million. Do you know how sensitive the analysis has to be to obtain a warning that specific for a disease state that has an incidence of 1 in 100,000 in the wild?

It’s absolutely absurd to me that people are being convinced that this vaccine is so dangerous when we know the damaging effects of covid and we are finding out that even mild disease is giving people lasting neurologic, respiratory, and cardiovascular damage. We know that mild chronic infections cause cognitive decline. Emerging evidence shows that short illnesses, such as flu, have an accumulative effect toward cognitive decline. I am sure future studies will show some very ugly effects from covid infection, even if mild.

For anyone over 18 Covid is magnitudes of order more damaging than the vaccine. Unless you are 100% certain you won’t ever contact Covid, it makes sense to take your chances with the vaccine.

Good try you dumb****. I talked about Ivermectin and how they are trying to downplay it because it might actually be a silver bullet. I am not antivax and I don't care what people do. If you want to get the vaccine great. I'm not a fear monger on the vaccine. Most of the people I work with are vaxxed and they are having no issues.

 

[leodisflowers]

Podcasts are not superior to peer-reviewed research studies. If an individual has to resort to the internet or a random podcast “to get their word out”, chances are strong you should turn off your computer….

Most of these Podcasts are with doctors who are telling their results to studies. Podcasts actually have great information and are not just random things to get their word out. It is 2021, not sure if you are aware and Podcasts are probably better than the news at this point.

 

[dinglefritz]

You just dropped your pants on this one.

Which mRNA vaccines have ever been used on livestock for coronavirus?

Which mRNA vaccines have ever been approved for humans?

Which drug of any kind has Moderna ever brought to market?

The points you miss are that we've been working with Corona virus developing vaccines EFFECTIVELY for roughly 40 years. We have a tremendous amount of scientific knowledge of Corona viruses. The mRNA technology has been in development for almost 20 years. Scientists who work with these things don't stay at the same company and the information in many cases is publicly available often being done in university settings such as Oxford in Great Britain.

New companies are not a new thing in the pharmaceutical and biological marketplace. Usually what happens is that a large company decides they can fill a niche and they spend large amounts of capital to make it happen. OR they buy a small company who had an idea or process that looks financially profitable but can't afford to jump through the government hoops. A small start up can't do financially do it. In this case the feds were providing financial guarantees to smaller companies to develop a vaccine. Thank God. It's interesting isn't it that a new company seems to have come up with the safest most effective vaccine to date?

Most of the vaccine companies I worked with 30 years ago are long gone. They get bought out and merged or were replaced because somebody came up with a new superior product. Some new ones have popped up in new areas usually started by existing drug companies who want to expand their product line in to vaccines. Moderna's start up was really no different than that with the exception of how it was financed. Just having marketed a drug has no bearing on whether a company is capable of marketing a vaccine.

The MAIN take away of this deal is that your body gets the same damned antigens if you contract the virus naturally. There is WAY less risk in getting the vaccine than getting infected with the whole virus.

 

[drubendall]

The points you miss are that we've been working with Corona virus developing vaccines EFFECTIVELY for roughly 40 years. We have a tremendous amount of scientific knowledge of Corona viruses. The mRNA technology has been in development for almost 20 years. Scientists who work with these things don't stay at the same company and the information in many cases is publicly available often being done in university settings such as Oxford in Great Britain.

New companies are not a new thing in the pharmaceutical and biological marketplace. Usually what happens is that a large company decides they can fill a niche and they spend large amounts of capital to make it happen. OR they buy a small company who had an idea or process that looks financially profitable but can't afford to jump through the government hoops. A small start up can't do financially do it. In this case the feds were providing financial guarantees to smaller companies to develop a vaccine. Thank God. It's interesting isn't it that a new company seems to have come up with the safest most effective vaccine to date?

Most of the vaccine companies I worked with 30 years ago are long gone. They get bought out and merged or were replaced because somebody came up with a new superior product. Some new ones have popped up in new areas usually started by existing drug companies who want to expand their product line in to vaccines. Moderna's start up was really no different than that with the exception of how it was financed. Just having marketed a drug has no bearing on whether a company is capable of marketing a vaccine.

The MAIN take away of this deal is that your body gets the same damned antigens if you contract the virus naturally. There is WAY less risk in getting the vaccine than getting infected with the whole virus.

Coronavirus is a broad term. I'm not sure that treating cow diarrhea is the same as covid-19 in humans

 

[dinglefritz]

Coronavirus is a broad term. I'm not sure that treating cow diarrhea is the same as covid-19 in humans

The cattle vaccine is relatively new compared to the vaccines for swine. Mammals are mammals to some degree. The technology transfers between species.

Corona virus is more than just a term. It's a name for a family of viruses that share specific characteristics and genetic makeup. What generally determines pathogenicity for any given species are those capsular proteins that we make vaccines against.

 

[jbskers]

I got the vaccine, mostly so I could stop wearing a mask. But I know three nurses and they all told me they are not getting the vaccine...so I'm not sure what to make of that. And something like 40% of FDA employees have declined the vaccine.

I didn't get the vaccine and I didn't wear a mask.......still here just like all the homeless here in Cali........STILL HERE.... wake up people

 

[dinglefritz]

I didn't get the vaccine and I didn't wear a mask.......still here just like all the homeless here in Cali........STILL HERE.... wake up people

Good for you. One of my friends didn't get a chance to get vaccinated before he died of COVID. Roughly 50% of our population seemed to have pre-existing natural immunity to COVID in theory due to either previous exposure to a Corona virus cold OR some genetic resistance. Personally I believe nutrition played a large role in whether or not people got seriously ill from COVID.

 

[leodisflowers]

Good for you. One of my friends didn't get a chance to get vaccinated before he died of COVID. Roughly 50% of our population seemed to have pre-existing natural immunity to COVID in theory due to either previous exposure to a Corona virus cold OR some genetic resistance. Personally I believe nutrition played a large role in whether or not people got seriously ill from COVID.

Agreed. Nutrition seems to be the very big thing everyone is missing. Yes, you will have bell-curve type events, but if you are in-shape, eat well and are getting your Vitamins, especially D, you should be fine.

 

[Antwill]

Personally I believe nutrition played a large role in whether or not people got seriously ill from COVID.

Yep, but not one peep about this from Fauci and the vaccine pushers.

 

[z28craz]

Relative risk reduction (95 percent) was used because big pharma are in sales. Absolute risk reduction suggests these shots are for the elderly and compromised only. The fact you wish for children to have to go through this for you means you're a scared little sheep who thinks only for his own self. No respect for you. Even if you did vaccinate at 80 percent, which you won't, COVID would still be here for the next decade.


48 percent of the population have been vaccinated and that number isn't budging. Good luck keeping over half the population out of daily life. Companies won't mandate because they need the manpower to operate.

Hope carrying big pharmas water doesn't keep you up at night.

Young children will pay the price if enough US adults don't get vaccinated against Covid-19, expert says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

This will be my last post.

I don’t WANT this. Not for me, not for you, not for our kids, not for anyone. But what I WANT doesn’t matter. What is reality is what is important regardless of my feelings, political leanings or otherwise.

I just got done listening to the Doctors at KU Med here in KC. They have been on the frontlines dealing with the most critical Covid patients here in KC doing daily updates since day one. I don’t care what the media says, or what Biden, or Trump, or Fauci say. These are two local doctors taking time out of their day, each and everyday, to help inform people. Their message today: Delta IS infecting younger populations INCLUDING children. Delta just became the dominant strain on July 3rd, so the severity of it will not be fully realized for another 2-4 weeks.

In Springfield, MO Delta is running rampant. According to the Chief Medical Officer at Mercy Hospital 91% of their ICU patients are on the vent. Their Covid population is primarily in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s with some pediatric patients. And 100% of their Covid patients are unvaccinated. That is direct from the horses mouth, at the epicenter of the nation’s largest Delta outbreak. Springfield is the major stopping point between Kansas City and Lake of the Ozarks. KU Med doctors just this morning said they are expecting a 3rd wave to hit Kansas City in the next 2-4 weeks… just in time for our kids to go back to school. We’re going to find out in the next few months if the “young and healthy” narrative holds up under Delta. I truly hope it does. But based on what is going on with Delta so far, I’m opting for caution and vaccination as much as possible.

You say I’m thinking only about myself… that could not be further from the truth. If I were only thinking about myself I wouldn’t care what anyone else does. I’m vaccinated so who cares. I’m good, Covid is done in MY world. You don’t want a vaccine and are willing to deal with the consequences, fine by me. But my children are not good. My neighbor’s children are not good. There are entire elementary and middle schools that will be going back to school next month that are not good. I’m thinking about those people. And while YOUR Covid consequences may be nothing someone else’s consequences are life altering if not life ending. So while YOU’RE okay, others are not.

if I’m being selfish it’s because I’m thinking about my children. I don’t WANT them to have to get vaccinated. I would much prefer our adult population step up and take the needle so that our children don’t have to. I would rather take the risk of the vaccine than my children or any other child for that matter. But I also realize there is risk in the virus. And considering both personal experience with Covid and the vaccine and the mounting data, there are risks with both. But the risk posed by the virus is far greater than the risk posed by the vaccine.

What I really want is for every able adult to take the vaccine so that our kids don’t have to. If enough adults get vaccinated then our kids don’t need to be vaccinated. We can protect them if we just act. I would MUCH prefer that. But more people are concerned with their “rights” than protecting our children. So I’m left with little choice but to hope a vaccine is available for my 3 kids sooner rather than later. And hope that our local school boards error on the side of caution by requiring masks until we can fully put this behind us.

You guys keep saying “our government” and Big Pharma…. The data being compiled is coming from all over the world. Israel. The UK. EU countries. South Korea. Japan. Canada. Australia. The studies being presented in this thread are being replicated throughout the world. Its not some small isolated study, of which there are numerous. It’s not just our government, our media and our big pharma companies. It’s literally every major country in the world. I completely understand mistrust and absolutely agree our government and corporations have not always acted in our best interest. I have distrust of our government. I distrust our media. I admittedly have a higher view of private industry than most, but I do understand and harbor some caution with major industries like Pharma and Big Tech. But I have a hard time believing every country in the world is saying the same thing, experiencing similar consequences and results and that it’s all due to one big global conspiracy.

Which leaves us one of two options. Either the data is correct and we should act accordingly. Or this is the biggest, most intricate, global conspiracy ever conceived by mankind and everyone is in on it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. To take a page from Ben Sasse’s book “Them.” To paraphrase, we probably have a lot more in common than we care to admit. The extremes on both sides of the political spectrum have taken over and pushed each other to further extremes. As he said, growing up, you may disagree at the football game on Friday night, but you shook hands and still still watched out for each other’s kids on Saturday morning. We’ve lost that in this country. The ability to to have honest disagreement , honest discourse, respect for ideas in order to achieve better ideas for the betterment of our society. Instead everyone is insulted, rights are threatened or any other myriad of perceived wrongs being done to the individual. So we fall into the trap of group think that comes from 24 hour cable “news,” which is really just opinion shows parading as news, and social media. The truth is no longer rooted in verifiable fact but as validated opinion.

One of the things Republican government and freedom demands is the realization that where one man’s freedoms begin another man’s end. As Paul alluded to in his first letter to the Church in Corinth, the beauty of freedom is not only the ability to exercise it, but also the wisdom of when to exercise restraint when it causes your brother to stumble. I find that highly applicable to our own society, and if more of us actually took it to heart I know the odd dichotomy is that we would find greater freedom.

All the best to each of you vaccine or no vaccine. And I’ll close with something we can all agree on. GOD BLESS AMERICA and GO BIG RED!!!

 

[GBRforLife1]

The bottom line it's a risk versus reward scenario. I looked at statistics from the risk from infection with live virus versus the risk from the vaccine. Months ago anyway, you had about a 5000 times higher risk of a fatal result from wild virus to fatal result from a vaccine reaction. Vaccine reactions are treatable. I guarantee you that it isn't the mRNA technology causing the heart issues, it's the reaction to the antigens being used. It would be worse with the old whole virus technology.

They are showing now that a small percentage of people develop some myocarditis from the vaccines most notably Pfizer's. The risk is very small and that side effect is treatable but people need to be aware of it. When I got vaccinated, I got drilled for several minutes on what to look for and to call my physician immediately if any of those symptoms occurred.

I actually had viral myocarditis about two years ago a few months before COVID hit the U.S. I developed it after I had a cold virus. My internist did nothing for it at the time and it resolved after a couple of months. In hindsight I probably should have taken some steroids.

Viral risk is only higher for old people.

For people under 20 vaccine risk is higher.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Young children will pay the price if enough US adults don't get vaccinated against Covid-19, expert says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

This will be my last post.

I don’t WANT this. Not for me, not for you, not for our kids, not for anyone. But what I WANT doesn’t matter. What is reality is what is important regardless of my feelings, political leanings or otherwise.

I just got done listening to the Doctors at KU Med here in KC. They have been on the frontlines dealing with the most critical Covid patients here in KC doing daily updates since day one. I don’t care what the media says, or what Biden, or Trump, or Fauci say. These are two local doctors taking time out of their day, each and everyday, to help inform people. Their message today: Delta IS infecting younger populations INCLUDING children. Delta just became the dominant strain on July 3rd, so the severity of it will not be fully realized for another 2-4 weeks.

In Springfield, MO Delta is running rampant. According to the Chief Medical Officer at Mercy Hospital 91% of their ICU patients are on the vent. Their Covid population is primarily in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s with some pediatric patients. And 100% of their Covid patients are unvaccinated. That is direct from the horses mouth, at the epicenter of the nation’s largest Delta outbreak. Springfield is the major stopping point between Kansas City and Lake of the Ozarks. KU Med doctors just this morning said they are expecting a 3rd wave to hit Kansas City in the next 2-4 weeks… just in time for our kids to go back to school. We’re going to find out in the next few months if the “young and healthy” narrative holds up under Delta. I truly hope it does. But based on what is going on with Delta so far, I’m opting for caution and vaccination as much as possible.

You say I’m thinking only about myself… that could not be further from the truth. If I were only thinking about myself I wouldn’t care what anyone else does. I’m vaccinated so who cares. I’m good, Covid is done in MY world. You don’t want a vaccine and are willing to deal with the consequences, fine by me. But my children are not good. My neighbor’s children are not good. There are entire elementary and middle schools that will be going back to school next month that are not good. I’m thinking about those people. And while YOUR Covid consequences may be nothing someone else’s consequences are life altering if not life ending. So while YOU’RE okay, others are not.

if I’m being selfish it’s because I’m thinking about my children. I don’t WANT them to have to get vaccinated. I would much prefer our adult population step up and take the needle so that our children don’t have to. I would rather take the risk of the vaccine than my children or any other child for that matter. But I also realize there is risk in the virus. And considering both personal experience with Covid and the vaccine and the mounting data, there are risks with both. But the risk posed by the virus is far greater than the risk posed by the vaccine.

What I really want is for every able adult to take the vaccine so that our kids don’t have to. If enough adults get vaccinated then our kids don’t need to be vaccinated. We can protect them if we just act. I would MUCH prefer that. But more people are concerned with their “rights” than protecting our children. So I’m left with little choice but to hope a vaccine is available for my 3 kids sooner rather than later. And hope that our local school boards error on the side of caution by requiring masks until we can fully put this behind us.

You guys keep saying “our government” and Big Pharma…. The data being compiled is coming from all over the world. Israel. The UK. EU countries. South Korea. Japan. Canada. Australia. The studies being presented in this thread are being replicated throughout the world. Its not some small isolated study, of which there are numerous. It’s not just our government, our media and our big pharma companies. It’s literally every major country in the world. I completely understand mistrust and absolutely agree our government and corporations have not always acted in our best interest. I have distrust of our government. I distrust our media. I admittedly have a higher view of private industry than most, but I do understand and harbor some caution with major industries like Pharma and Big Tech. But I have a hard time believing every country in the world is saying the same thing, experiencing similar consequences and results and that it’s all due to one big global conspiracy.

Which leaves us one of two options. Either the data is correct and we should act accordingly. Or this is the biggest, most intricate, global conspiracy ever conceived by mankind and everyone is in on it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. To take a page from Ben Sasse’s book “Them.” To paraphrase, we probably have a lot more in common than we care to admit. The extremes on both sides of the political spectrum have taken over and pushed each other to further extremes. As he said, growing up, you may disagree at the football game on Friday night, but you shook hands and still still watched out for each other’s kids on Saturday morning. We’ve lost that in this country. The ability to to have honest disagreement , honest discourse, respect for ideas in order to achieve better ideas for the betterment of our society. Instead everyone is insulted, rights are threatened or any other myriad of perceived wrongs being done to the individual. So we fall into the trap of group think that comes from 24 hour cable “news,” which is really just opinion shows parading as news, and social media. The truth is no longer rooted in verifiable fact but as validated opinion.

One of the things Republican government and freedom demands is the realization that where one man’s freedoms begin another man’s end. As Paul alluded to in his first letter to the Church in Corinth, the beauty of freedom is not only the ability to exercise it, but also the wisdom of when to exercise restraint when it causes your brother to stumble. I find that highly applicable to our own society, and if more of us actually took it to heart I know the odd dichotomy is that we would find greater freedom.

All the best to each of you vaccine or no vaccine. And I’ll close with something we can all agree on. GOD BLESS AMERICA and GO BIG RED!!!

Lol the KU med doctors are a joke. So is cnn.

 

[drubendall]

Lol the KU med doctors are a joke. So is cnn.

C'mon, do it for the children. (and grandma)

 

[leodisflowers]

For me the biggest thing at this point is, the people who have decided not to vax know their risk. Why are we worried about them? They have made their choice and they will have to deal with it. The folks that they are potentially giving it to have also made that choice. The fact of the matter is that the vaccine is available to everyone in the US at this point. If you want to be protected you can, so why the hell do we continue to push the hell of of it? You aren't going to change the remaining people's mind. Move on and try to vaccinate the rest of the world or try and study this vaccine and get the population all of the facts so the holdouts may feel comfortable about it. They probably won't because it is political, but at this point the people who want to be vaxxed are and it makes no sense to continue to push the agenda..

 

[drubendall]

For me the biggest thing at this point is, the people who have decided not to vax know their risk. Why are we worried about them? They have made their choice and they will have to deal with it. The folks that they are potentially giving it to have also made that choice. The fact of the matter is that the vaccine is available to everyone in the US at this point. If you want to be protected you can, so why the hell do we continue to push the hell of of it? You aren't going to change the remaining people's mind. Move on and try to vaccinate the rest of the world or try and study this vaccine and get the population all of the facts so the holdouts may feel comfortable about it. They probably won't because it is political, but at this point the people who want to be vaxxed are and it makes no sense to continue to push the agenda..

I think people believe that it can be eradicated and I personally think that is fantasy. It's become very tribal. It's super annoying to the true believers that a large segment of the population wants nothing to do with their vaccine religion for a variety of reasons. I think Glenn Beck nailed it. Biden should have asked Trump to publicly brag about how good the vaccine is. Best vaccine ever. Super good. None better and fast. That would have moved several people across the finish line. Not all 😄

 

[leodisflowers]

I think people believe that it can be eradicated and I personally think that is fantasy. It's become very tribal. It's super annoying to the true believers that a large segment of the population wants nothing to do with their vaccine religion for a variety of reasons. I think Glenn Beck nailed it. Biden should have asked Trump to publicly brag about how good the vaccine is. Best vaccine ever. Super good. None better and fast. That would have moved several people across the finish line. Not all 😄

There is something funny that has happened though that I do find weird. Operation warp speed was the brain child of the Trump Admin and got a vaccine out the door, but a lot of the holdouts are Trump people... Weird contradiction there. On the flip side, Biden and Harris super skeptical and now all of the sudden are the biggest pushers. Weird situations all around.

 

[kidofSN]

Stupid is as Stupid does has to be changed now to Selfish is as Selfish does! WOW Stupid and selfish no way to go thru life on this earth!

 

[drubendall]

There is something funny that has happened though that I do find weird. Operation warp speed was the brain child of the Trump Admin and got a vaccine out the door, but a lot of the holdouts are Trump people... Weird contradiction there. On the flip side, Biden and Harris super skeptical and now all of the sudden are the biggest pushers. Weird situations all around.

Biden Harris thing was predictable. At one point I think Joe even took credit for the initiative. I'm not sure how many Trump people entirely trust Trump. It's just that the alternative was so awful. Lower taxes great, take on big Tech great, get the border under control rate, protect constitutional freedoms great. take unproven, rushed irreversible life-threatening shot that very few people need to begin with. Not great

 

[Antwill]

There is something funny that has happened though that I do find weird. Operation warp speed was the brain child of the Trump Admin and got a vaccine out the door, but a lot of the holdouts are Trump people... Weird contradiction there. On the flip side, Biden and Harris super skeptical and now all of the sudden are the biggest pushers. Weird situations all around.

A lot of the Trump people weren't on board with a rushed vaccine from the beginning. As much as people want to blame this on politics, this doesn't have anything to do with Biden or Trump for a lot of people. The same issues are present regardless of who led the development.

So much for the mindless sheep doing anything their demigod Trump tells them to do.

 

[RedMyMind]

I remember when covid was going to blow over by Valentines Day, 2020

 

[GBRforLife1]

Stupid is as Stupid does has to be changed now to Selfish is as Selfish does! WOW Stupid and selfish no way to go thru life on this earth!

So selfish to make your own health decisions. Lol people like you are what's wrong with the country.

 

[GBRforLife1]

I remember when covid was going to blow over by Valentines Day, 2020

Naww man. Spreading it out was part of the plan 😉 that was some brilliant strategy.

 

[drubendall]

Naww man. Spreading it out was part of the plan 😉 that was some brilliant strategy.

From two weeks to flatten the curve to brown shirts going door to door to see your papers. I did Nazi this coming.

 

[dinglefritz]

Yep, but not one peep about this from Fauci and the vaccine pushers.

Fauci and the lockdown Nazis were wrong about a bunch. The democrats IMO made the same mistake Trump did by owning COVID and now I believe Biden's vaccine urgings are having counter productive effects.

It does appear that the Delta variant is affecting young people more seriously. I'm afraid this might turn in to our worst fear where China was enhancing Corona viruses in their lab and created a virus that easily mutates to continue infecting people. It appears the vaccines will be effective for a while but who knows where we go from here. We're starting to lose unvaccinated people in our area to the Delta variant. So far it has been older adults who refused vaccination but other areas are seeing more young people getting very ill. As far as I know, nobody who had COVID or has been vaccinated has ended up in the hospital in our area when infected with the Delta variant.

 

[Antwill]

Fauci and the lockdown Nazis were wrong about a bunch. The democrats IMO made the same mistake Trump did by owning COVID and now I believe Biden's vaccine urgings are having counter productive effects.

It does appear that the Delta variant is affecting young people more seriously. I'm afraid this might turn in to our worst fear where China was enhancing Corona viruses in their lab and created a virus that easily mutates to continue infecting people. It appears the vaccines will be effective for a while but who knows where we go from here. We're starting to lose unvaccinated people in our area to the Delta variant. So far it has been older adults who refused vaccination but other areas are seeing more young people getting very ill. As far as I know, nobody who had COVID or has been vaccinated has ended up in the hospital in our area when infected with the Delta variant.

My position has been and will continue to be that it should be each person's individual choice whether or not to get the vaccine and if they choose not to they should not be punished or have their services or opportunities limited for that choice. They also have made a risk assessment and if they get sick and have serious complications or death, that was the risk they took.

If what you say is correct and people who are vaccinated aren't getting seriously ill from the Delta variant, then that is more proof that the vaccinated have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. If the Delta variant is determined to significantly more dangerous for young people, their parents are the ones who need to make that decision for their own children. Even if the Delta variant is more dangerous for kids, I will be surprised if it is significant enough to warrant them getting a EUA vaccine that has been inadequately safety tested. I know you think that there has been plenty of study on the mRNA vaccines, but my understanding is that there has not been studies on humans anywhere near what is usually required before vaccines are approved for widespread use.

The "vaccine is the only answer even if you've already had Covid" approach that is being pushed has red flags popping up all over for me an a lot of other people.

 

[TruHusker]

Fauci and the lockdown Nazis were wrong about a bunch. The democrats IMO made the same mistake Trump did by owning COVID and now I believe Biden's vaccine urgings are having counter productive effects.

It does appear that the Delta variant is affecting young people more seriously. I'm afraid this might turn in to our worst fear where China was enhancing Corona viruses in their lab and created a virus that easily mutates to continue infecting people. It appears the vaccines will be effective for a while but who knows where we go from here. We're starting to lose unvaccinated people in our area to the Delta variant. So far it has been older adults who refused vaccination but other areas are seeing more young people getting very ill. As far as I know, nobody who had COVID or has been vaccinated has ended up in the hospital in our area when infected with the Delta variant.

Could it be that the push for vaccines have inhibited the covid virus from mutating naturally? I watched a video of a German Dr long before this came along, predicting this scenario.

And it should be painfully obvious to any person with 3rd grade reasoning what the left saw and acted on to establish a power and scare campaign.

 

[RedMyMind]

My position has been and will continue to be that it should be each person's individual choice whether or not to get the vaccine and if they choose not to they should not be punished or have their services or opportunities limited for that choice. They also have made a risk assessment and if they get sick and have serious complications or death, that was the risk they took.

If what you say is correct and people who are vaccinated aren't getting seriously ill from the Delta variant, then that is more proof that the vaccinated have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. If the Delta variant is determined to significantly more dangerous for young people, their parents are the ones who need to make that decision for their own children. Even if the Delta variant is more dangerous for kids, I will be surprised if it is significant enough to warrant them getting a EUA vaccine that has been inadequately safety tested. I know you think that there has been plenty of study on the mRNA vaccines, but my understanding is that there has not been studies on humans anywhere near what is usually required before vaccines are approved for widespread use.

The "vaccine is the only answer even if you've already had Covid" approach that is being pushed has red flags popping up all over for me an a lot of other people.

The spike protein is the reason for many of these clotting/immune problems and the mRNA shots are having the body make upwards of billions of them. I don't see the reason for such overkill. Just throw a few spike proteins in and let the body destroy it. Makes me wonder if ones are partially immune due to ones shedding the spike protein to others.

 

[93sker]

You have no idea how ironic your statement is. Just wow.
Some people look to science and life long experts (as imperfect as they are) when dealing with a very complex situation,”. Others look to Tucker Carlson and random internet postings.
Just wondering how many non-scientists who have all the answers on this board also knock on the cockpit door during flights to give the pilots advice on what they are doing?

Pretty sure there are no posters on the board who have ever knocked on the cockpit door to give pilots advice and likewise no posters on the board who will be pushed into taking an experimental vaccine by a nobody posting on a sports message board.

 

[Bruce1981]

Exactly true. But we know the acute effects of covid are more damaging for the infection than the vaccine for anyone over 18. That is verifiable.

We are observing deleterious effects six months post covid infection but not for vaccination.

Of course nothing in medicine is a certainty but it stands to reason that extrapolating this data, it is far likelier that long term outcomes will be less favorable for infection versus vaccination for the average person.

When I have this discussion with anyone it is important to note that nobody wants covid and nobody wants to take a vaccine. If I could guarantee that I would not get covid I wouldn’t have taken the vaccine. I took the vaccine early and I definitely had concerns. But, armed, with the information available to us at this point and time it really defies logic to opt out of the vaccine if you are wanting to live life normally.

Dude, the average age of death for COVID is older than life expectancy.....😂

 

[GBRforLife1]

Fauci and the lockdown Nazis were wrong about a bunch. The democrats IMO made the same mistake Trump did by owning COVID and now I believe Biden's vaccine urgings are having counter productive effects.

It does appear that the Delta variant is affecting young people more seriously. I'm afraid this might turn in to our worst fear where China was enhancing Corona viruses in their lab and created a virus that easily mutates to continue infecting people. It appears the vaccines will be effective for a while but who knows where we go from here. We're starting to lose unvaccinated people in our area to the Delta variant. So far it has been older adults who refused vaccination but other areas are seeing more young people getting very ill. As far as I know, nobody who had COVID or has been vaccinated has ended up in the hospital in our area when infected with the Delta variant.

That natural immunity is ignored is a disgrace. Especially since 99%+ survive and the pcr test being run at high cycles is totally fraudulent. The delta variant is nothing more than panic and fear mongering from the same people who have been telling us the sky is falling for 18 months.

 

[GBRforLife1]

You have no idea how ironic your statement is. Just wow.
Some people look to science and life long experts (as imperfect as they are) when dealing with a very complex situation,”. Others look to Tucker Carlson and random internet postings.
Just wondering how many non-scientists who have all the answers on this board also knock on the cockpit door during flights to give the pilots advice on what they are doing?

Your appeal to authoritarianism and credentialism is noted.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Exactly true. But we know the acute effects of covid are more damaging for the infection than the vaccine for anyone over 18. That is verifiable.

We are observing deleterious effects six months post covid infection but not for vaccination.

Of course nothing in medicine is a certainty but it stands to reason that extrapolating this data, it is far likelier that long term outcomes will be less favorable for infection versus vaccination for the average person.

When I have this discussion with anyone it is important to note that nobody wants covid and nobody wants to take a vaccine. If I could guarantee that I would not get covid I wouldn’t have taken the vaccine. I took the vaccine early and I definitely had concerns. But, armed, with the information available to us at this point and time it really defies logic to opt out of the vaccine if you are wanting to live life normally.

Someone should tell these people they're defying logic.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Podcasts are not superior to peer-reviewed research studies. If an individual has to resort to the internet or a random podcast “to get their word out”, chances are strong you should turn off your computer….

Your tunnel vision approach is fascinating. Where do you work? Just want to make sure I don't ever have you as a doctor.

 

[GBRforLife1]

This might be the most full of shit thread in the history of these boards. Not just Open Scrolls! WOW

Idk man, I kind of think this is how discussions are supposed to work. One person presents their information and then another replies with theirs. And then some 🤡 comes on to tell them they're full of sh*t. Pretty standard.

 

[inWV]

There's plenty of playing loose with the facts going on from the other side, too.

What are your thoughts on the fact that previous vaccines have been halted for less than 50 deaths, yet it appears these vaccines now has over 9,000 and no talk to even slowing down let alone halting use?

I'd recommend you listen to this Bret Weinstein's podcast "Darkhorse." He's an evolutionary biologist and far from a conservative or anti-vaxxer, but he has many questions about why the vaccines are being pushed so hard, especially when ivermectin has shown so much promise in treatment. Lots to question. And, contrary to your previous post saying that those questioning the vaccines aren't on the top of their professions, the doctor he is having the conversation with in this podcast very much is.

DarkHorse Podcast: COVID, Ivermectin, and the Crime of the Century: DarkHorse Podcast with Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein on Apple Podcasts

Show DarkHorse Podcast, Ep COVID, Ivermectin, and the Crime of the Century: DarkHorse Podcast with Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein - 1 Jun 2021

podcasts.apple.com

Bottom line, in a free country people should be able to make their own choice when it comes to these things. That's especially true when it comes to a EUA vaccine for a virus that has a less than 1% fatality rate and also has alternative treatment options that have been proven to be very effective.

Weinstein is a crackpot.

 

[drubendall]

Weinstein is a crackpot.

Try harder.