OT: Masks again!

Harry Caray

Athletic Director
Feb 28, 2002
13,223
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Even many of the biggest unions that support the Democrats are publicly rejecting vaccine mandates. The Postal Workers' Union, Firefighters Union, even the San Francisco Teacher's Union.

But I'm sure they'll keep blaming Trump and Fox News 😆



 
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bingo65

Sophomore
Jun 18, 2020
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I wouldn't. You are free to wear a mask if you'd like....but I'm assuming you've never worn a mask during flu season, though. Or during the H1N1 pandemic. I am fully vaccinated, so I am under no obligation to put a piece of cloth on my face to protect people who don't want to get the vaccine. If they don't want the vaccine, that is their choice, and they will have to deal with any potential consequences of that decision.

If we wanted to prevent even one person from being hospitalized, we would ban cars, alcohol, cigarettes, guns, knives, football/sports, sugar, swimming pools, dogs, and a thousand other things. "If it saves one life" is not a realistic standard for anything. Almost every activity we partake in comes with some degree of risk.
in most of those cases you will go to jail for causing the hospitalization of someone else. so we cannot prevent all harm but our society has set up rules/laws that punish those that cause harm to others. are you suggesting we treat the transmission of covid the same penalties as a drunk driver? as someone who shoots someone else with a gun? when your behavior causes harm to others there is usually a penalty.
if you just go drown in a pool by yourself is not the same thing as transmitting covid to others.
 
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RedMyMind

All-American
Aug 22, 2017
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one reason is because you are not only lowering your low risk but others risk as well. you do affect others with your decisions. it is not an individual disease. it is a society plague.
pharma requires immunity because they could be sued out of existence. if we allow them to be sued out of business then there would be no vaccines or medicines for us to reduce disease burden.
there are VERY FEW vaccine companies left in this world. Why?
most companies concluded long ago the profits do not justify the risks.
thats why most of the vaccines in the world are made by just 3 companies. No one else thinks its a business worth getting into.
mainly because of liability.
Poor Pfizer only making $33+ Billion this year from Covid vaccine. Won't somebody think of the conglomerates?
 

bingo65

Sophomore
Jun 18, 2020
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If not driving would prevent one person from dying in a car wreck, would you do that? It might!

If not eating would prevent one factory worker in a food plant from having having an industrial accident, would you do that?

If not posting for a year would stop people from being annoyed, would you do that?
nice attempt but you used examples of things that we all NEED to do on daily basis to work and survive. Not doing them would be a HUGE burden on our lives. we couldn't stay employed and in the case of food we would die.
no one is going to lose their job or die by wearing a mask.
it is little or no burden
just like stopping at a stop light. Why on earth do you do that?
 
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wolve1972

Walk On
Sep 3, 2018
166
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Or everyone could just realize that there is no data showing that cloth masks make any difference, and there's no data to explain why vaccinated people should wear masks....and let us get on with our lives.
I agree with the vaccinated people not required to wear a mask but the problem is how do you know who's been vaccinated or not. Many non-vaccinated people refuse to wear a mask if they don't have to hence everybody pays the price. Why the hell can't everyone just get vaccinated ? This stuff isn't going to end and will keep exploding til we get enough vaccinated.

My biggest fear is the hospital filling up again and people with emergency situations being left out because a few a-holes have to have their insane ways.
 
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tpmcg

Assistant Head Coach
Mar 25, 2002
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experimental groups should be australia and new zealand.
masked up, distanced, vaxxed, and all their graphs were flat (even before the vaxx).
us and sweden are like control groups.
 
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Harry Caray

Athletic Director
Feb 28, 2002
13,223
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in most of those cases you will go to jail for causing the hospitalization of someone else. so we cannot prevent all harm but our society has set up rules/laws that punish those that cause harm to others. are you suggesting we treat the transmission of covid the same penalties as a drunk driver? as someone who shoots someone else with a gun? when your behavior causes harm to others there is usually a penalty.
if you just go drown in a pool by yourself is not the same thing as transmitting covid to others.

Are you pledging to wear a mask in public for the rest of your life?

Because even if Covid fades, you could still spread another virus to someone and kill them. Influenza and Pneumonia kill tens of thousands of Americans each year.
 

mkbrkloster

Junior
Jan 27, 2005
1,989
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she probably should be. i feel for her but there is no reason not to get vaccinated.
Here's a reason: Despite nearly 2 decades of research and multiple clinical trials, no mRNA "vaccine" has ever successfully made it out of a long-term trial, and all stopped well short of gaining full FDA approval. You are part of the largest medical clinical trial in history, with medical technology that has never been proven safe, despite multiple tries. Further, if you are young and healthy, you have a 99.7% chance of survival. Does that risk-reward seem in balance to you?
 

bingo65

Sophomore
Jun 18, 2020
1,150
933
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Poor Pfizer only making $33+ Billion this year from Covid vaccine. Won't somebody think of the conglomerates?
no one said pfizer wasn't making a lot of money. i just explained why liability has such a huge impact in the pharmaceutical and vaccine world specifically.
i didn't take sides. i just explained the conundrum.
if you dont limit liability you dont get a vaccine. If you get a vaccine you actually have to pay for it.
some things in life dont have an easy answer
 

tpmcg

Assistant Head Coach
Mar 25, 2002
9,968
2,336
113
a paving contractor was putting together a bid for us today, but had to excuse himself due to covid hitting one of his crews really hard.
and id gather theyre all outside - this is like ‘hay season’ for contractors - its hot and dry.
 

Harry Caray

Athletic Director
Feb 28, 2002
13,223
9,621
113
I agree with the vaccinated people not required to wear a mask but the problem is how do you know who's been vaccinated or not. Many non-vaccinated people refuse to wear a mask if they don't have to hence everybody pays the price. Why the hell can't everyone just get vaccinated ? This stuff isn't going to end and will keep exploding til we get enough vaccinated.

My biggest fear is the hospital filling up again and people with emergency situations being left out because a few a-holes have to have their insane ways.

How does everybody pay the price? If someone doesn't get the vaccine or wear a mask, they have to deal with the consequences. It is not my responsibility as a vaccinated person to accommodate them.
 

tpmcg

Assistant Head Coach
Mar 25, 2002
9,968
2,336
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icu’s are filling up here, might be changing but nearly all unvaccinated.
 

bingo65

Sophomore
Jun 18, 2020
1,150
933
113
Are you pledging to wear a mask in public for the rest of your life?

Because even if Covid fades, you could still spread another virus to someone and kill them. Influenza and Pneumonia kill tens of thousands of Americans each year.
good question.
i dont have the numbers of folks annually who get the flu and pneumonia versus who get covid
but i have never had the flu to my knowledge and definitely never had pneumonia after 56 years on the planet.
but most of my family has had covid in just a 12 month time in existence.
maybe thats because there are vaccines for the flu and pneumonia
but my best guess is those diseases are not nearly as common as covid. if the AMA came out and said we all needed to wear masks to reduce transmission of those diseases i would wear a mask.
 

tpmcg

Assistant Head Coach
Mar 25, 2002
9,968
2,336
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wife drove by and took a picture of a drive thru testing site, huge line-up.

id gather most have symptoms, as its been denied quite frequently here.
 

mkbrkloster

Junior
Jan 27, 2005
1,989
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i would be interested as well. Sometimes healthcare providers can only use what evidence they have and their best judgement. they often do not have iron clad top notch evidence for everything they do.
i believe a lot of this is using their best judgement and some scattered evidence.
if wearing a mask for a year prevented 1 person from being hospitalized i would do that without any hesitation.
who wouldn't?
I'll be honest...I wouldn't. Why do you still drive a car which emits pollution that kills people every year? You must be a horrible person.
 

ExcellentBread

Walk On
Oct 17, 2002
117
92
28
It’s very satisfying watching so many of you lose your mind about the rules required to live in a society. Speaking of losing your mind…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7988450/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-infection-long-haulers-dementia/5405461001/

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210618/covid_long_term_brain_loss_study

Looks like some of the inflammatory processes might lead to neurodegeneration. It’s weird that so many people are worried about long term effects of the vaccine with a partial spike protein, but can’t be bothered about the long term effects of actually catching a mild case of covid-19.
 
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Huskerfan2112

Junior
Dec 7, 2009
1,769
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in most of those cases you will go to jail for causing the hospitalization of someone else. so we cannot prevent all harm but our society has set up rules/laws that punish those that cause harm to others. are you suggesting we treat the transmission of covid the same penalties as a drunk driver? as someone who shoots someone else with a gun? when your behavior causes harm to others there is usually a penalty.
if you just go drown in a pool by yourself is not the same thing as transmitting covid to others.
Someone in a factory made that pool. Can we place blame on them? Or maybe the guy at the water department?
 

huntered

First Team All-Big Ten
Mar 28, 2009
3,611
1,041
113
cheyenne wy
need to arrest and incarcerate anyone not wearing their masks correctly in public. would recommend corporal punishment of some kind, maybe caning
 

RedMyMind

All-American
Aug 22, 2017
4,862
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I agree with the vaccinated people not required to wear a mask but the problem is how do you know who's been vaccinated or not. Many non-vaccinated people refuse to wear a mask if they don't have to hence everybody pays the price. Why the hell can't everyone just get vaccinated ? This stuff isn't going to end and will keep exploding til we get enough vaccinated.

My biggest fear is the hospital filling up again and people with emergency situations being left out because a few a-holes have to have their insane ways.
Plenty of "a-holes" taking up hospital beds for other no-covid reasons as well, year round.
 

bingo65

Sophomore
Jun 18, 2020
1,150
933
113
Here's a reason: Despite nearly 2 decades of research and multiple clinical trials, no mRNA "vaccine" has ever successfully made it out of a long-term trial, and all stopped well short of gaining full FDA approval. You are part of the largest medical clinical trial in history, with medical technology that has never been proven safe, despite multiple tries. Further, if you are young and healthy, you have a 99.7% chance of survival. Does that risk-reward seem in balance to you?
yes. the reward is much greater than the risk. There is no documented risk. except possibly 1 day of feeling lousy.
even if the reward is relatively low i think its still bigger than the risk. Your concern about a new vaccine is overstated and misleading the facts.
you do many things on a daily basis that is a bigger clinical trial than taking this vaccine.
you put 10 things in your body EVERY DAY that have been studied MUCH MUCH MUCH LESS than this vaccine.
most of what you consume is barely regulated. Never studied like this.
but you dont care about all those things that come from companies eager to make bigger profits than pharma companies do.
 

mkbrkloster

Junior
Jan 27, 2005
1,989
897
113
good question.
i dont have the numbers of folks annually who get the flu and pneumonia versus who get covid
but i have never had the flu to my knowledge and definitely never had pneumonia after 56 years on the planet.
but most of my family has had covid in just a 12 month time in existence.
maybe thats because there are vaccines for the flu and pneumonia
but my best guess is those diseases are not nearly as common as covid. if the AMA came out and said we all needed to wear masks to reduce transmission of those diseases i would wear a mask.
Interesting comment. I'd be interested to know your take on why it is that no US medical establishment ever pushed for mask-wearing to prevent the transmission of other respiratory diseases that are transmitted in the same manner as Covid?
 

Harry Caray

Athletic Director
Feb 28, 2002
13,223
9,621
113
experimental groups should be australia and new zealand.
masked up, distanced, vaxxed, and all their graphs were flat (even before the vaxx).
us and sweden are like control groups.

Australia and New Zealand are islands in the middle of nowhere, that closed their international borders early. The only countries that contained the virus were islands that shut down their border right away. Masks and distancing had nothing to do with it.

The U.S. should have shut down international travel earlier, that was a mistake...but one party was still against it at the time. And one party is still fine with thousands of unvaccinated people pouring into the country right now.

Tiny island nations can afford to shut down. Their economies have zero impact on the world economy. If the U.S. Economy had completely shut down for an extended period of time, it would have been the end of civilization as we know it. Far more people would have died in the long run.
 
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mwulf

Graduate Assistant
Dec 15, 2013
5,572
3,551
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Thigh Land
If you are vaxxed no mask if you are not vaxxed you wear one. Shouldn't be that difficult. I'm gonna have to wear one all year long but I am around a population of kids that cannot be vaxxed. Still sucks though. Should be some reward for getting the shots. I HATE masks
 

RedMyMind

All-American
Aug 22, 2017
4,862
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It’s very satisfying watching so many of you lose your mind about the rules required to live in a society. Speaking of losing your mind…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7988450/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-infection-long-haulers-dementia/5405461001/

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210618/covid_long_term_brain_loss_study

Looks like some of the inflammatory processes might lead to neurodegeneration. It’s weird that so many people are worried about long term effects of the vaccine with a partial spike protein, but can’t be bothered about the long term effects of actually catching a mild case of covid-19.
The spike protein produced by the mRNA shots have the same potential for toxicity. Prion disease
 

RedMyMind

All-American
Aug 22, 2017
4,862
5,014
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yes. the reward is much greater than the risk. There is no documented risk. except possibly 1 day of feeling lousy.
even if the reward is relatively low i think its still bigger than the risk. Your concern about a new vaccine is overstated and misleading the facts.
you do many things on a daily basis that is a bigger clinical trial than taking this vaccine.
you put 10 things in your body EVERY DAY that have been studied MUCH MUCH MUCH LESS than this vaccine.
most of what you consume is barely regulated. Never studied like this.
but you dont care about all those things that come from companies eager to make bigger profits than pharma companies do.
then they should repeal the "no liability" clause
 

RedMyMind

All-American
Aug 22, 2017
4,862
5,014
113
yes. the reward is much greater than the risk. There is no documented risk. except possibly 1 day of feeling lousy.
even if the reward is relatively low i think its still bigger than the risk. Your concern about a new vaccine is overstated and misleading the facts.
you do many things on a daily basis that is a bigger clinical trial than taking this vaccine.
you put 10 things in your body EVERY DAY that have been studied MUCH MUCH MUCH LESS than this vaccine.
most of what you consume is barely regulated. Never studied like this.
but you dont care about all those things that come from companies eager to make bigger profits than pharma companies do.
would you be in favor of locking down the border and forcing all immigrants to be vaccinated?
 

mwulf

Graduate Assistant
Dec 15, 2013
5,572
3,551
113
Thigh Land
We just got this email. Wonder if any of you get something similar from your union if you have one... Sorry this is long

We are once again in a fluid, fast-changing situation with the coronavirus. We are meeting with the district about the latest developments and will keep you updated.

The current surge in COVID cases underscores why UTLA members fought so hard for mask mandates, ventilation, access to vaccines, and other safety measures for our schools. Vaccines are like seatbelts: necessary but not invincible. Just like we need airbags and speed limits in addition to seatbelts, we need masks, ventilation, and testing to keep school communities safe.

Especially given the persistent racial and economic inequities in vaccine distribution and access and virus infection and death rates, we encourage everyone who is eligible to get vaccinated, so that students and educators can return to full in-person learning as safely as possible amidst the concerning trends we are seeing with the Delta variant.

Our agreement with LAUSD for the return to traditional instruction for the 2021-2022 school year maintains concrete, enforceable COVID protocols that kept students, staff, families, and the education community safer last school year. The agreement, approved in June by UTLA members, includes:

  • Masks required for all staff, students, and visitors while on campus (either party can open negotiations on this issue after September 1, 2021).
  • Regular COVID testing. LAUSD announced this week that all students and employees, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, returning for in-person instruction must participate in baseline and ongoing weekly COVID testing.
  • Physical distancing consistent with LA County guidelines.
  • Daily symptom screening and regular cleaning and disinfecting.
  • Monthly inspection and continued use of higher-rated MERV 13 filters for ventilation until at least October 1.
  • Paid leave for those required to quarantine and continued ability for high-risk staff to request reasonable accommodations in the online program.
  • A COVID Task Force at every site to consistently and rigorously enforce the safety protocols. Last school year the Task Forces were invaluable in identifying issues and getting a swift resolution.
 

mkbrkloster

Junior
Jan 27, 2005
1,989
897
113
yes. the reward is much greater than the risk. There is no documented risk. except possibly 1 day of feeling lousy.
even if the reward is relatively low i think its still bigger than the risk. Your concern about a new vaccine is overstated and misleading the facts.
you do many things on a daily basis that is a bigger clinical trial than taking this vaccine.
you put 10 things in your body EVERY DAY that have been studied MUCH MUCH MUCH LESS than this vaccine.
most of what you consume is barely regulated. Never studied like this.
but you dont care about all those things that come from companies eager to make bigger profits than pharma companies do.
Now you're just lying. There are tens of thousands of reported severe adverse reactions to the shot, and many deaths that can or should be attributed to the shot also. The least you can do is be honest.
 

IM4NUalways

Nebraska Legend
Gold Member
May 31, 2005
25,164
12,985
113
Hermitage, Arkansas
Just had a big meeting at work. Since my employer goes by the CDC guidelines, as of Monday, I will be again required to wear a mask at work.

I hate wearing a mask all day. It's difficult to breathe and it's difficult to communicate.

I've had COVID-19 in January. I've had two Pfizer shots. This crap is never ending.

I will get that third booster shot if I have to. Man, I wish this was all in the rearview mirror. Sigh.

Now, I'm waiting for Walmart and all my favorite restaurants to require them once again. FML
Its all about control. Nothing more.
 

cubsker

Athletic Director
May 29, 2003
13,329
9,115
113
one reason is because you are not only lowering your low risk but others risk as well. you do affect others with your decisions. it is not an individual disease. it is a society plague.
pharma requires immunity because they could be sued out of existence. if we allow them to be sued out of business then there would be no vaccines or medicines for us to reduce disease burden.
there are VERY FEW vaccine companies left in this world. Why?
most companies concluded long ago the profits do not justify the risks.
thats why most of the vaccines in the world are made by just 3 companies. No one else thinks its a business worth getting into.
mainly because of liability.

You just admitted there are risks. Why are you trying to force me to take a risk?
 
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ExcellentBread

Walk On
Oct 17, 2002
117
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The spike protein produced by the mRNA shots have the same potential for toxicity. Prion disease
Yep. The end game is we will all get the spike protein at some point. Which one do you want to take your chances with? The wild type that current research has shown excess neurodegeneration, organ system inflammation and organ failure just two years into its existence? Or the one that is demonstrating significantly less effects and no research demonstrating neurodegeneration more than 18 months into its existence?
 

cubsker

Athletic Director
May 29, 2003
13,329
9,115
113
I agree with the vaccinated people not required to wear a mask but the problem is how do you know who's been vaccinated or not. Many non-vaccinated people refuse to wear a mask if they don't have to hence everybody pays the price. Why the hell can't everyone just get vaccinated ? This stuff isn't going to end and will keep exploding til we get enough vaccinated.

My biggest fear is the hospital filling up again and people with emergency situations being left out because a few a-holes have to have their insane ways.

The hospitals never filled up. That was a complete lie.
 

mkbrkloster

Junior
Jan 27, 2005
1,989
897
113
yes. the reward is much greater than the risk. There is no documented risk. except possibly 1 day of feeling lousy.
even if the reward is relatively low i think its still bigger than the risk. Your concern about a new vaccine is overstated and misleading the facts.
you do many things on a daily basis that is a bigger clinical trial than taking this vaccine.
you put 10 things in your body EVERY DAY that have been studied MUCH MUCH MUCH LESS than this vaccine.
most of what you consume is barely regulated. Never studied like this.
but you dont care about all those things that come from companies eager to make bigger profits than pharma companies do.
Thank you for making my point for me. Yes, this has been studied extensively for years. And EVERY SINGLE STUDY failed! So why is it now suddenly safe enough for the entire world? Nothing changed with it in between the multiple times it failed and now
 

sodako

Newbie
Nov 30, 2004
19
3
3
Seems it should be easy to show the data to prove it works then. Compare Germany (mandates, 98% wearing) with Sweden (no mandates, as low as 9% recently wearing) and look at their exact same curves.



Or maybe you prefer this one instead

Why anyone quotes a Twitter feed on scientific or medical evidence is beyond me. Here is a peer-reviewed, high impact journal study to help you.

 

ExcellentBread

Walk On
Oct 17, 2002
117
92
28
Why anyone quotes a Twitter feed on scientific or medical evidence is beyond me. Here is a peer-reviewed, high impact journal study to help you.

Or they could just Google “why do surgeons wear masks?”.
 
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sodako

Newbie
Nov 30, 2004
19
3
3
Why anyone quotes a Twitter feed on scientific or medical evidence is beyond me. Here is a peer-reviewed, high impact journal study to help you.

Here is a Pubmed search to help look at evidence for, against or equivocal for a mask. Likely a diversity of conclusions, but I think it would be good anyone to review.
 

cubsker

Athletic Director
May 29, 2003
13,329
9,115
113
I quote data, real world data. Much better than studies that don't even use actual humans in the real world. If Germany was able to reduce infections by 15 to 70 percent (lol) with masks, then why didn't they have 15 to 70 percent fewer cases than Sweden?