OT: Kentucky Derby winner going to be disqualified?

tpmcg

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Mar 25, 2002
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rules are rules and he should be punished, but when are they gonna take the covers off of sports?
im not saying everyone and everybeast juices, but who are we trying to kid?
hes always seemed kinda slimy.
 
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PeliniTheCrutch

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Problem is...if he does get disqualified, the trainer of the 2nd place horse is an even bigger cheat than Baffert.
 

TerranPetteway

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It's so funny to me that Baffert is acting like he's shocked that his horse tested positive. It's not like the horse is injecting itself with drugs
 
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Spectrumalaska

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The cream, and the clear...

Barry thought it was flaxseed.

Baffert cheated like Lance Armstrong. His excuses are like the dope claims many athletes used.
"Horse had lidocaine from brushing against a trainer wearing a patch"?

Baffert, Clemens, bonds, Armstrong, etc, all on same plateau crying innocence. At least Armstrong came clean? Clemens blames his wife, Baffert, well we will see who he blames.
 

dinglefritz

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Jan 14, 2011
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The cream, and the clear...

Barry thought it was flaxseed.

Baffert cheated like Lance Armstrong. His excuses are like the dope claims many athletes used.
"Horse had lidocaine from brushing against a trainer wearing a patch"?

Baffert, Clemens, bonds, Armstrong, etc, all on same plateau crying innocence. At least Armstrong came clean? Clemens blames his wife, Baffert, well we will see who he blames.
I find it VERY hard to believe that a horse that was running in THE Kentucky Derby would be knowingly doped. It is possible depending on what type of steroid they found that they had contaminated feed meant for a horse being treated for a respiratory ailment. There was a horse who had been entered in the Derby who developed a fever and respiratory infection that is sometimes treated with corticosteroids. Unless they found an anabolic steroid in significant levels.

Don't get me wrong. I know that alot of dirty stuff goes on in horse racing but knowing the stakes I just don't believe a trainer would do something like that in the derby. If they confirm the test, he'll be done racing in the Derby for the foreseeable future.
 

Spectrumalaska

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I find it VERY hard to believe that a horse that was running in THE Kentucky Derby would be knowingly doped. It is possible depending on what type of steroid they found that they had contaminated feed meant for a horse being treated for a respiratory ailment. There was a horse who had been entered in the Derby who developed a fever and respiratory infection that is sometimes treated with corticosteroids. Unless they found an anabolic steroid in significant levels.

Don't get me wrong. I know that alot of dirty stuff goes on in horse racing but knowing the stakes I just don't believe a trainer would do something like that in the derby. If they confirm the test, he'll be done racing in the Derby for the foreseeable future.
Dingle, give it up. You often have a hard time accepting reality, regardless how many Holiday Inn's you may have stayed in on any given day.

Baffert has had his horses fail post race drug tests 22 times. Not a coincidence.

22 different times over the years.

Go ask one of the myriad in-laws, or alleged professional acquaintances you so often quote.

That or go stay in a Holiday Inn.
 

Husker Hank

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The cream, and the clear...

Barry thought it was flaxseed.

Baffert cheated like Lance Armstrong. His excuses are like the dope claims many athletes used.
"Horse had lidocaine from brushing against a trainer wearing a patch"?

Baffert, Clemens, bonds, Armstrong, etc, all on same plateau crying innocence. At least Armstrong came clean? Clemens blames his wife, Baffert, well we will see who he blames.
Ha Ha, exactly the first thing that came to my mind as well.
 

Husker Hank

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I find it VERY hard to believe that a horse that was running in THE Kentucky Derby would be knowingly doped. It is possible depending on what type of steroid they found that they had contaminated feed meant for a horse being treated for a respiratory ailment. There was a horse who had been entered in the Derby who developed a fever and respiratory infection that is sometimes treated with corticosteroids. Unless they found an anabolic steroid in significant levels.

Don't get me wrong. I know that alot of dirty stuff goes on in horse racing but knowing the stakes I just don't believe a trainer would do something like that in the derby. If they confirm the test, he'll be done racing in the Derby for the foreseeable future.
Or, totally intentional, and a masking agent didnt work like planned.
 
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litespeedhuskerfan

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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I find it VERY hard to believe that a horse that was running in THE Kentucky Derby would be knowingly doped. It is possible depending on what type of steroid they found that they had contaminated feed meant for a horse being treated for a respiratory ailment. There was a horse who had been entered in the Derby who developed a fever and respiratory infection that is sometimes treated with corticosteroids. Unless they found an anabolic steroid in significant levels.

Don't get me wrong. I know that alot of dirty stuff goes on in horse racing but knowing the stakes I just don't believe a trainer would do something like that in the derby. If they confirm the test, he'll be done racing in the Derby for the foreseeable future.

It is the latest in a very long line of failed tests.
 

Crazyhole

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Jun 4, 2004
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Isn't the point of horse racing, or for that matter sports in general, to put the best product on the field? It seems to me like if I can do something to make my horse faster than yours, I accomplished my goal. What exactly is the point of complaining that someone figured out a way to put a better product on the market?
 

mkbrkloster

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Isn't the point of horse racing, or for that matter sports in general, to put the best product on the field? It seems to me like if I can do something to make my horse faster than yours, I accomplished my goal. What exactly is the point of complaining that someone figured out a way to put a better product on the market?
You're close, keep trying though.
 

jlb321

Defensive Coordinator
Aug 8, 2014
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It's so funny to me that Baffert is acting like he's shocked that his horse tested positive. It's not like the horse is injecting itself with drugs
Those damn horses sneaking PEDs while Baffert isn’t looking
 

Capiche

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One of the big problems with horse racing is it is not regulated by a single national entity. Each state's racing commission sets up its own rules, testing programs, and penalties regarding the medication of horses. Trainers move horses from state-to-state, enabling violators penalized in one state to race in another. Would uniform medication rules eliminate all failed post race drug tests? Probably not. But it would restore some integrity to the sport that badly needs it.
 
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Crazyhole

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You're close, keep trying though.
Meh. I embrace the idea of PEDs because it makes the competitor a better version of itself. Roid that shit up as far as I'm concerned, I want to see a 3 minute mile, or a basketball player score 200 points in a game. Why limit competition to just genetics?
 

Can o' corn

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Nov 29, 2002
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I find it VERY hard to believe that a horse that was running in THE Kentucky Derby would be knowingly doped. It is possible depending on what type of steroid they found that they had contaminated feed meant for a horse being treated for a respiratory ailment. There was a horse who had been entered in the Derby who developed a fever and respiratory infection that is sometimes treated with corticosteroids. Unless they found an anabolic steroid in significant levels.

Don't get me wrong. I know that alot of dirty stuff goes on in horse racing but knowing the stakes I just don't believe a trainer would do something like that in the derby. If they confirm the test, he'll be done racing in the Derby for the foreseeable future.
Get a program at the races. Those poor animals are all lab tests.
 

dinglefritz

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Jan 14, 2011
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Dingle, give it up. You often have a hard time accepting reality, regardless how many Holiday Inn's you may have stayed in on any given day.

Baffert has had his horses fail post race drug tests 22 times. Not a coincidence.

22 different times over the years.

Go ask one of the myriad in-laws, or alleged professional acquaintances you so often quote.

That or go stay in a Holiday Inn.
I grew up on a horse farm. I worked with performance horses for the first 30+ years of my life. I've known lots of trainers and my family had a couple of horses that raced. I also have taken 2 semesters of graduate level pharmacology.

The drug found in that horse's system was supposedly betamethasone. That is NOT widely considered a drug that will enhance performance so much as it is a drug that is used widely in animals in eye ointments and drops. It has been used in inhalers for asthmatic humans. There are multiple ways that a horse could have received betamethasone inadvertantly. When you walk around a stable area there are many people who touch a horse or his feed. Some of them that actually do the daily chores have very little education and many of them don't speak English.

When these horses race and train it is fairly common for them to get sand and dirt in their eyes. It is also unfortunately very common for influenza and other respiratory viruses to get passed around stables. Steroidal eye ointments and drops are often used to treat the resultant conjunctivitis some horses get from foreign material and pathogens. It is possible that a drug like betamethasone was mistakenly given to that horse OR for the drug to have been used appropriately but for whatever reason it wasn't eliminated from the horse's system as quickly as normal. IF injected betamethasone lasts a long time in the system. Vets and trainers know that and there are other better drugs to use in most cases for inflammation.

There is NO way betamethasone "enhanced the performance" of that horse in the derby. No way. It didn't make him run faster or longer. It's bullsh##. BTW, I am NOT a Baffert fan. Never have been.
 

dinglefritz

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Those damn horses sneaking PEDs while Baffert isn’t looking
Betamethasone isn't really a PED in a horse. It's an anti-inflammatory often used in eye ointments and drops in animals. Like it or not, this likely was an inadvertent issue and not an intentional act.
 

dinglefritz

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Get a program at the races. Those poor animals are all lab tests.
You must feel the same way about any human athlete as well given all of the anti-inflammatories and training they do. I'm surprised you're on a football message board. Every young horse I've ever owned loved to get out in an open field or open track and run as fast as they could go.
 

tpmcg

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Mar 25, 2002
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wouldn't it be easy to test find out the quantity in the system?
seems to me someone taking a leak in the hay would be an infinitesimal amount vs. steriod injections.
could it be a masking agent?
 

litespeedhuskerfan

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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wouldn't it be easy to test find out the quantity in the system?
seems to me someone taking a leak in the hay would be an infinitesimal amount vs. steriod injections.
could it be a masking agent?

I looked at that to and per Google anyway I didn't see any evidence of it being used for that but at this point Baffert's horses have failed to many tests. He's guilty. Needs to be tossed from the sport. I have no tolerance for an animal that is doped, they don't get to make that decision. Humans do and take their own risk. Animals don't get to make that choice.
 

tpmcg

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I looked at that to and per Google anyway I didn't see any evidence of it being used for that but at this point Baffert's horses have failed to many tests. He's guilty. Needs to be tossed from the sport. I have no tolerance for an animal that is doped, they don't get to make that decision. Humans do and take their own risk. Animals don't get to make that choice.
i hear you.
 

PeliniTheCrutch

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I grew up on a horse farm. I worked with performance horses for the first 30+ years of my life. I've known lots of trainers and my family had a couple of horses that raced. I also have taken 2 semesters of graduate level pharmacology.

The drug found in that horse's system was supposedly betamethasone. That is NOT widely considered a drug that will enhance performance so much as it is a drug that is used widely in animals in eye ointments and drops. It has been used in inhalers for asthmatic humans. There are multiple ways that a horse could have received betamethasone inadvertantly. When you walk around a stable area there are many people who touch a horse or his feed. Some of them that actually do the daily chores have very little education and many of them don't speak English.

When these horses race and train it is fairly common for them to get sand and dirt in their eyes. It is also unfortunately very common for influenza and other respiratory viruses to get passed around stables. Steroidal eye ointments and drops are often used to treat the resultant conjunctivitis some horses get from foreign material and pathogens. It is possible that a drug like betamethasone was mistakenly given to that horse OR for the drug to have been used appropriately but for whatever reason it wasn't eliminated from the horse's system as quickly as normal. IF injected betamethasone lasts a long time in the system. Vets and trainers know that and there are other better drugs to use in most cases for inflammation.

There is NO way betamethasone "enhanced the performance" of that horse in the derby. No way. It didn't make him run faster or longer. It's bullsh##. BTW, I am NOT a Baffert fan. Never have been.
Tough to say that an anti-inflammatory drug definitively is not a pain killer though...I can see it both ways to a degree.

But in horses, I would most certainly call a pain killer/masker a performance enhancer.
 
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Spectrumalaska

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I grew up on a horse farm. I worked with performance horses for the first 30+ years of my life. I've known lots of trainers and my family had a couple of horses that raced. I also have taken 2 semesters of graduate level pharmacology.

The drug found in that horse's system was supposedly betamethasone. That is NOT widely considered a drug that will enhance performance so much as it is a drug that is used widely in animals in eye ointments and drops. It has been used in inhalers for asthmatic humans. There are multiple ways that a horse could have received betamethasone inadvertantly. When you walk around a stable area there are many people who touch a horse or his feed. Some of them that actually do the daily chores have very little education and many of them don't speak English.

When these horses race and train it is fairly common for them to get sand and dirt in their eyes. It is also unfortunately very common for influenza and other respiratory viruses to get passed around stables. Steroidal eye ointments and drops are often used to treat the resultant conjunctivitis some horses get from foreign material and pathogens. It is possible that a drug like betamethasone was mistakenly given to that horse OR for the drug to have been used appropriately but for whatever reason it wasn't eliminated from the horse's system as quickly as normal. IF injected betamethasone lasts a long time in the system. Vets and trainers know that and there are other better drugs to use in most cases for inflammation.

There is NO way betamethasone "enhanced the performance" of that horse in the derby. No way. It didn't make him run faster or longer. It's bullsh##. BTW, I am NOT a Baffert fan. Never have been.

Not sure which is more preposterous, Baffert failing 22 post race drug tests, or your seemingly endless listing of advanced courses, degrees, lengthy job experience, and in-laws or associates at the pinnacle of widely varied industries.

Sorry dingle, it smells like what is out back of the barn.
Were I to have to chose, I would take Baffert's word over yours, even though he cheated and was caught 22 times.

You do add predictable comic relief though, so have that going for you anyway.
 

dinglefritz

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Tough to say that an anti-inflammatory drug definitively is not a pain killer though...I can see it both ways to a degree.

But in horses, I would most certainly call a pain killer/masker a performance enhancer.
Betamethasone doesn't have any pain relief properties and it isn't a masker. Pain relief is secondary to reducing inflammation. It now sounds like they've traced the source to a topical medication they were applying for a rash. That makes sense. As I've said, I've never been a Baffert fan but finding betamethsone smacks to me of some groom putting some ointment on a spot and he didn't realize that it had a steroid in and that it could cause a positive test. IF you've ever put any topicals on your pets or a horse you will also realize that they tend to lick any of it off IF they can get to the spot with their tongue. That alone with a topical antimicrobial containing betamethasone could be enough to cause a positive test.

They advertise betamethasone as a pain reliever, but any pain relief is secondary to the anti-inflammatory properties. IF I had given betamethasone as a pain reliever as an answer in my grad level pharm class I would have gotten that one wrong.
 
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dinglefritz

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Not sure which is more preposterous, Baffert failing 22 post race drug tests, or your seemingly endless listing of advanced courses, degrees, lengthy job experience, and in-laws or associates at the pinnacle of widely varied industries.

Sorry dingle, it smells like what is out back of the barn.
Were I to have to chose, I would take Baffert's word over yours, even though he cheated and was caught 22 times.

You do add predictable comic relief though, so have that going for you anyway.
I've done a lot of things in my 63 years. I have widely varying interests from agriculture to medicine. I'm well educated as are my siblings, in-laws and friends. One of my buddies from college is a veterinarian who at one time did the lion's share of the vet work at Fonner Park and even Aksarben before it closed. With my family's background in the equine industry, I know a fair amount about it. Call it comic relief if you want.
 
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huskerfan66

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I looked at that to and per Google anyway I didn't see any evidence of it being used for that but at this point Baffert's horses have failed to many tests. He's guilty. Needs to be tossed from the sport. I have no tolerance for an animal that is doped, they don't get to make that decision. Humans do and take their own risk. Animals don't get to make that choice.
They also can't drive themselves to the vet but I have heard some make it to the bars and get asked by the bartender, why the long face!!
 

dinglefritz

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I looked at that to and per Google anyway I didn't see any evidence of it being used for that but at this point Baffert's horses have failed to many tests. He's guilty. Needs to be tossed from the sport. I have no tolerance for an animal that is doped, they don't get to make that decision. Humans do and take their own risk. Animals don't get to make that choice.
Is treating an animal for a skin rash or conjunctivitis doping? Is it doping when they inject a steroid in to a college athlete's joint to control inflammation? Baffert might be dirty but steroids like betamethasone are legitimate therapeutics widely used by MDs and DVMs. You can use betamethasone in a race horse. It just can't be detectable when he races.

Betamethasone is a pretty long acting steroid so any vet injecting a race horse with it would require a fairly long withdrawl before reaching permissable levels I would think. Part of the issue is with the type of testing they have available today, they can detect some drugs for months after they're administered. It would be EXTREMELY foolish IMO to have a zero tolerance for any level of a drug like betamethasone in a race horse.