OT jlb321- ECMO Study. Fully functioning and living at home does NOT

Nebraska_Reality

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Not very. I have had covid, early. Not that bad. My sister in law, stage 4 triple neg breast cancer had it during chemo, barely sick. My 65 year old mother in law had it, cold.like symptoms and never sought medical care...... no problems. All of my family has been tested for antibodies and all have them. Nobody ever even contemplated hospital. I worked through it as I was sick in Mid Feb and had no idea about corona. Its not as deadly as the media would have you think. If you didn't get a flu shot and never worried about it, stop worrying about corona. If you felt compelled to take a flu shot for fear of dying from the flu then stay home avoid public.
What does whether or not I had a flu shot have to do with it? I get the flu shot purely to hopefully avoid getting the flu, nothing more....and certainly not out of fear of dying from the flu.

And...just because it wasn't bad for the people in your circle doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. 134,000 people are now gone since March....including 1,000 health care workers. Obviously it's bad for some people.
 
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shocksker

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What does whether or not I had a flu shot have to do with it? I get the flu shot purely to hopefully avoid getting the flu, nothing more....and certainly not out of fear of dying from the flu.

And...just because it wasn't bad for the people in your circle doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. 134,000 people are now gone since March....including 1,000 health care workers. Obviously it's bad for some people.
For 1, that number is vastly overinflated. Wife has witnessed death cert being listed as covid when she is 100% it was a stroke. The factvthat she saw that once in her minimal exposure tells me its happening more than that.
For 2, if there was no flu shots the jnfluenza deaths would rival if not superceded covid. Thankfully there are flu vaccinations as many die even with them. I know personally 1 casualty, 91 years old in long-term care. Of the over 100 I know who were told they have or have had covid, that is the only one sick enough to seek medical care. We all get an opinion, I was clear that every 1 of these is my experiences so its not false information or news. Should y I u go jave a c Ovid party and try to get it? No. Should you change your life outside of wearing a mask? Should you recluse in fear of getting covid? No. All just my opinions so not sure how you can tell me they are wrong.
 
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dinglefritz

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For 1, that number is vastly overinflated. Wife has witnessed death cert being listed as covid when she is 100% it was a stroke. The factvthat she saw that once in her minimal exposure tells me its happening more than that.
For 2, if there was no flu shots the jnfluenza deaths would rival if not superceded covid. Thankfully there are flu vaccinations as many die even with them. I know personally 1 casualty, 91 years old in long-term care. Of the over 100 I know who were told they have or have had covid, that is the only one sick enough to seek medical care. We all get an opinion, I was clear that every 1 of these is my experiences so its not false information or news. Should y I u go jave a c Ovid party and try to get it? No. Should you change your life outside of wearing a mask? Should you recluse in fear of getting covid? No. All just my opinions so not sure how you can tell me they are wrong.
I've posted several times about a friend from my church with end stage renal disease, on dialysis, obese, insulin dependent diabetic, on a transplant list who was hospitalized for a couple of weeks but was discharged and well enough to attend our parking lot church services. They diagnosed inoperable metastatic cancer while he was in the hospital. Well he basically went home knowing he was going to die and stopped dialysis. He passed away 3 days ago and guess what his listed cause of death was? COVID.:confused:o_O:mad:
 
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Nebraska_Reality

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For 1, that number is vastly overinflated. Wife has witnessed death cert being listed as covid when she is 100% it was a stroke. The factvthat she saw that once in her minimal exposure tells me its happening more than that.
For 2, if there was no flu shots the jnfluenza deaths would rival if not superceded covid. Thankfully there are flu vaccinations as many die even with them. I know personally 1 casualty, 91 years old in long-term care. Of the over 100 I know who were told they have or have had covid, that is the only one sick enough to seek medical care. We all get an opinion, I was clear that every 1 of these is my experiences so its not false information or news. Should y I u go jave a c Ovid party and try to get it? No. Should you change your life outside of wearing a mask? Should you recluse in fear of getting covid? No. All just my opinions so not sure how you can tell me they are wrong.
Regarding your first point, I'd say that your wife need to turn whoever that was in to authorities, because it is a crime to falsify a death certificate.

Secondly, I never said that was you posted was false. I was merely taking issue with your implication that COVID wasn't a big deal, since you know people that got it, and didn't get very sick.
 

RaisingArizona

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Native Americans in our area are suffering from COVID because of diabetes, heart disease and obesity. That has nothing to do with inequality. They get referred immediately and get some of the best medical care in the country at no cost to them in our area. That doesn't save your life though when you've got the kinds of largely self induced health problems that some of them do. I think it was the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota who just removed their tribal chairman for trying to enforce a mask wearing rule.

I have a Native American acquaintance who says we need to quit providing food to the reservations. She says they NEED to work to provide for their families in order to change what is going on there. Roof over their head yes. Food no. I thought it seemed really harsh but that's her view on what's wrong. Another friend who grew up on the rez says that they routinely sold their government commodity food stuffs to get money for liquor and gasoline.
Like I said I said, I don’t want to get political but if you don’t believe that there aren’t inequality issues when it comes to the plight of Native Americans and that said equality isn’t linked to poorer health outcomes of all sorts, then we will will have to agree to disagree on that topic.
 

shocksker

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I've posted several times about a friend from my church with end stage renal disease, on dialysis, obese, insulin dependent diabetic, on a transplant list who was hospitalized for a couple of weeks but was discharged and well enough to attend our parking lot church services. They diagnosed inoperable metastatic cancer while he was in the hospital. Well he basically went home knowing he was going to die and stopped dialysis. He passed away 3 days ago and guess what his listed cause of death was? COVID.:confused:o_O:mad:
So much of this going on and people want to cite numbers instead of personal experiences. The numbers are beyond manipulated. Yes its a real virus, but the fear mongering has made it exponentially worse.
 

dinglefritz

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Regarding your first point, I'd say that your wife need to turn whoever that was in to authorities, because it is a crime to falsify a death certificate.

Secondly, I never said that was you posted was false. I was merely taking issue with your implication that COVID wasn't a big deal, since you know people that got it, and didn't get very sick.
I haven't seen the death certificate. The newspaper reported his death as being from COVID and apparently the state is counting it that way. Could it be reasonable to suggest that COVID hastened his death? Sure. I don't know who was responsible in this case since I believe he died at home under the care of hospice. I believe the county coroner makes that call in those cases. Good luck going after a county coroner.
 
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dinglefritz

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Like I said I said, I don’t want to get political but if you don’t believe that there aren’t inequality issues when it comes to the plight of Native Americans and that said equality isn’t linked to poorer health outcomes of all sorts, then we will will have to agree to disagree on that topic.
Health care on the rez is crappy. Why is that? They get millions of dollars and try to run a hospital etc. They have their own police force on many reservations. They get free care when they do go to regional medical referral centers and get to see whatever subspecialist they want They have government provided vans to haul anybody who wants to go to the referral centers for treatment. Of course they blocked traffic with 3 vans at Rushmore by flattening the tires after they parked them blocking the highway up there. ..The OPPORTUNITY for good care is there. Unfortunately so many are so messed up with drugs and alcohol that it's pretty frustrating. Beyond that, nobody makes Native Americans obese and diabetic. They do that to themselves. You need to make a trip to the Pine Ridge and then come back and tell me what the problem is. At 3 in the morning one morning when I stopped to get gas a probably 6-7 year old girl came walking up the street with roughly 3 year old child to the gas station to get candy. I think that was in Mission SD. Tell me again how it's our country's fault.

The opportunity is there for them. College is free. They get virtually automatic admission to medical school or any other professional curriculum. A classmate of my wife's got in to medical school with a 2.5 GPA because he was 1/8th Cherokee. Great guy and he probably turned out to be a good Dr but no white person would ever get admitted with an academic record like that. Our government handouts have so screwed up their social structure and values that I don't know what we can do now to fix it. The reservations IMO are a very good model for what is happening to our society with the welfare state.
 
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Nebraska_Reality

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I haven't seen the death certificate. The newspaper reported his death as being from COVID and apparently the state is counting it that way. Could it be reasonable to suggest that COVID hastened his death? Sure. I don't know who was responsible in this case since I believe he died at home under the care of hospice. I believe the county coroner makes that call in those cases. Good luck going after a county coroner.
Just my response to shocksker...

Sounds to me like there have been deaths from C19 that aren't being classified as such, according to people like Fauci. Seems to me like it evens out in the end.
 

VandallHuskerJulie

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Health care on the rez is crappy. Why is that? They get millions of dollars and try to run a hospital etc. They have their own police force on many reservations. They get free care when they do go to regional medical referral centers and get to see whatever subspecialist they want They have government provided vans to haul anybody who wants to go to the referral centers for treatment. Of course they blocked traffic with 3 vans at Rushore by flattening the tires after they parked them blocking the highway up there. ..The OPPORTUNITY for good care is there. Unfortunately so many are so messed up with drugs and alcohol that it's pretty frustrating. Beyond that, nobody makes Native Americans obese and diabetic. They do that to themselves. You need to make a trip to the Pine Ridge and then come back and tell me what the problem is. At 3 in the morning one morning when I stopped to get gas a probably 6-7 year old girl came walking up the street with roughly 3 year old child to the gas station to get candy. I think that was in Mission SD. Tell me again how it's our country's fault.

The opportunity is there for them. College is free. They get virtually automatic admission to medical school or any other professional curriculum. A classmate of my wife's got in to medical school with a 2.5 GPA because he was 1/8th Cherokee. Great guy and he probably turned out to be a good Dr but no white person would ever get admitted with an academic record like that. Our government handouts have so screwed up their social structure and values that I don't know what we can do now to fix it. The reservations IMO are a very good model for what is happening to our society with the welfare state.
About the Book
Boarding School Seasons offers a revealing look at the strong emotional history of Indian boarding school experiences in the first half of the twentieth century. At the heart of this book are the hundreds of letters written by parents, children, and school officials at Haskell Institute in Kansas and the Flandreau School in South Dakota. These revealing letters show how profoundly entire families were affected by their experiences.
Children, who often attended schools at great distances from their communities, suffered from homesickness, and their parents from loneliness. Parents worried continually about the emotional and physical health and the academic progress of their children. Families clashed repeatedly with school officials over rampant illnesses and deplorable living conditions and devised strategies to circumvent severely limiting visitation rules. Family intimacy was threatened by the school's suppression of traditional languages and Native cultural practices.

Although boarding schools were a threat to family life, profound changes occurred in the boarding school experiences as families turned to these institutions for relief during the Depression, when poverty and the loss of traditional seasonal economics proved a greater threat. Boarding School Seasons provides a multifaceted look at the aspirations and struggles of real people.https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9780803214804/
 
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RaisingArizona

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Health care on the rez is crappy. Why is that? They get millions of dollars and try to run a hospital etc. They have their own police force on many reservations. They get free care when they do go to regional medical referral centers and get to see whatever subspecialist they want They have government provided vans to haul anybody who wants to go to the referral centers for treatment. Of course they blocked traffic with 3 vans at Rushore by flattening the tires after they parked them blocking the highway up there. ..The OPPORTUNITY for good care is there. Unfortunately so many are so messed up with drugs and alcohol that it's pretty frustrating. Beyond that, nobody makes Native Americans obese and diabetic. They do that to themselves. You need to make a trip to the Pine Ridge and then come back and tell me what the problem is. At 3 in the morning one morning when I stopped to get gas a probably 6-7 year old girl came walking up the street with roughly 3 year old child to the gas station to get candy. I think that was in Mission SD. Tell me again how it's our country's fault.

The opportunity is there for them. College is free. They get virtually automatic admission to medical school or any other professional curriculum. A classmate of my wife's got in to medical school with a 2.5 GPA because he was 1/8th Cherokee. Great guy and he probably turned out to be a good Dr but no white person would ever get admitted with an academic record like that. Our government handouts have so screwed up their social structure and values that I don't know what we can do now to fix it. The reservations IMO are a very good model for what is happening to our society with the welfare state.
Though I see things in a different light to some extent I respect your opinion and find your argument to be well thought out. Not going to go any further with it as it would just take the intended direction of this thread off course.
 
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dinglefritz

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Though I see things in a different light to some extent I respect your opinion and find your argument to be well thought out. Not going to go any further with it as it would just take the intended direction of this thread off course.
The reservations are a complex problem that I don't have an easy answer for that is for sure.
 

dinglefritz

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Air Force critical care

So what's your point? I don't see any 22 year old college athletes in that group. I would bet the ones with the "minor" comorbidties were the younger ones. You know like the "minor" comorbidities you listed such as diabetes, obesity, asthma, etc..:rolleyes: Keep digging to try to make this seem as bad as you possibly can for young people. I'm sure out of going on 40 millions cases nationwide (according to the CDC) you can find a few.
 
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Iroh2

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For 1, that number is vastly overinflated. Wife has witnessed death cert being listed as covid when she is 100% it was a stroke. The factvthat she saw that once in her minimal exposure tells me its happening more than that.
For 2, if there was no flu shots the jnfluenza deaths would rival if not superceded covid. Thankfully there are flu vaccinations as many die even with them. I know personally 1 casualty, 91 years old in long-term care. Of the over 100 I know who were told they have or have had covid, that is the only one sick enough to seek medical care. We all get an opinion, I was clear that every 1 of these is my experiences so its not false information or news. Should y I u go jave a c Ovid party and try to get it? No. Should you change your life outside of wearing a mask? Should you recluse in fear of getting covid? No. All just my opinions so not sure how you can tell me they are wrong.
You are cherry picking data to push your beliefs/hopes. We all do it, just own up to it. I personally believe the impact of Covid to the American economy is way overstated.. Stock market is doing awesome, so all is good. I think what we are seeing is the culling out the weaker business models/industries that have been propped up for years. American business/industry has gotten lax and just isn’t competitive anymore. I see it every day. But that is just my belief.. I also personally believe that we could save many lives by social distancing and as the social distancing is having minimal effect on the economy, why not do it? Mostly because Americans have gotten so entitled and lazy we don’t want to be bothered with something that might change our daily way of life... But again, just my beliefs...
 

shocksker

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You are cherry picking data to push your beliefs/hopes. We all do it, just own up to it. I personally believe the impact of Covid to the American economy is way overstated.. Stock market is doing awesome, so all is good. I think what we are seeing is the culling out the weaker business models/industries that have been propped up for years. American business/industry has gotten lax and just isn’t competitive anymore. I see it every day. But that is just my belief.. I also personally believe that we could save many lives by social distancing and as the social distancing is having minimal effect on the economy, why not do it? Mostly because Americans have gotten so entitled and lazy we don’t want to be bothered with something that might change our daily way of life... But again, just my beliefs...
I didnt give data, I used my experiences and made sure to state as much. Data isnt trustworthy in a bubble, have to see 100% of the data to have a clue. I didnt state you shouldn't distance, I said you shouldn't live your life in fear. I dont have an agenda, we all have a hope in this situation. Economy is fine, however the next 4-6 months are rough waters with the large unemployment. But I digress, experience driven not data driven. It keeps fear lower. Of course wear a mask. But don't live in fear, that's no way to live.
 

dinglefritz

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I didnt give data, I used my experiences and made sure to state as much. Data isnt trustworthy in a bubble, have to see 100% of the data to have a clue. I didnt state you shouldn't distance, I said you shouldn't live your life in fear. I dont have an agenda, we all have a hope in this situation. Economy is fine, however the next 4-6 months are rough waters with the large unemployment. But I digress, experience driven not data driven. It keeps fear lower. Of course wear a mask. But don't live in fear, that's no way to live.
I'm just curious if ANY of the people compiling statistics have considered anything at all besides listed comorbidities and age when looking at deaths from COVID. We already KNOW that nutrition and a healthy immune system are a HUGE part of susceptibility to this virus. Yet we don't know if any of the victims were vegetarians. How many of them had eating disorders? You can be anorexic and still be considered "healthy" by the standards used in the statistics. Are you really healthy at that point? How man of them had really crappy diets and had suppressed immune systems because of it. Everybody wants to talk about "herd immunity". Well IF we were talking about a herd of cattle, pigs or even chickens one of the FIRST things they would look at is their nutrition. I'm not seeing that in the ECMO registry or CDC numbers on "comorbidity or no comorbidity". Did I miss that?Winking
 

Baxter48

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I didnt give data, I used my experiences and made sure to state as much. Data isnt trustworthy in a bubble, have to see 100% of the data to have a clue. I didnt state you shouldn't distance, I said you shouldn't live your life in fear. I dont have an agenda, we all have a hope in this situation. Economy is fine, however the next 4-6 months are rough waters with the large unemployment. But I digress, experience driven not data driven. It keeps fear lower. Of course wear a mask. But don't live in fear, that's no way to live.
Right on! I’ve heard a Dr from Minnesota say the same thing someone died from cancer and also had covid and the death certificate it said cause of death covid. It all about money. If we live in fear then someone or thing controls your life and that’s no way to live. Sadly some people did even before covid
 
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little a

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I've posted several times about a friend from my church with end stage renal disease, on dialysis, obese, insulin dependent diabetic, on a transplant list who was hospitalized for a couple of weeks but was discharged and well enough to attend our parking lot church services. They diagnosed inoperable metastatic cancer while he was in the hospital. Well he basically went home knowing he was going to die and stopped dialysis. He passed away 3 days ago and guess what his listed cause of death was? COVID.:confused:o_O:mad:
but why? Are hospitals and docs getting money to list it this way?
 

Lars72

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From what I’ve heard the hospitals get lots of cash for covid deaths but I could be mistaken. Anytime the government gets involved they use data to forward their cause.
I’ve heard that as well but I don’t really know for sure. Anyone know of any documentation that supports that claim (hospitals getting additional funding?
 

Charlie Marlow

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According to this, they do get more in some cases. Most likely isn't happening deliberately and almost every expert says covid19 deaths are under reported overall.
 

dinglefritz

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According to this, they do get more in some cases. Most likely isn't happening deliberately and almost every expert says covid19 deaths are under reported overall.
The only "experts" I've heard or read say that COVID deaths are under-reported are a couple of "experts" on here. MAYBE we have a few that don't get counted but everybody who dies without an obvious traumatic cause of death is getting a postmortem COVID test by pathologists. IF they don't test for COVID in a person who dies in hospice care, then I don't see why that one should be counted anyway. Most people who enter hospice have a matter of a few days to live.
 
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Crazyhole

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The only "experts" I've heard or read say that COVID deaths are under-reported are a couple of "experts" on here. MAYBE we have a few that don't get counted but everybody who dies without an obvious traumatic cause of death is getting a postmortem COVID test by pathologists. IF they don't test for COVID in a person who dies in hospice care, then I don't see why that one should be counted anyway. Most people who enter hospice have a matter of a few days to live.
You mean provisional deaths? The CDC said there would be 200k deaths and by golly we are going to have 200k deaths one way or another.
 

dinglefritz

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You mean provisional deaths? The CDC said there would be 200k deaths and by golly we are going to have 200k deaths one way or another.
I've been quoting a Worldometer prediction from several months ago of about 167,000 deaths in the U.S. I can't find that graph anymore so they must have taken it down. That said, it has been very very accurate with the way this thing has gone. It had national death totals dropping to a very low level by September 1st. Now IF some of these states (New Jersey cough cough) keep dumping large numbers of deaths from people who die from other causes, then that is going to skew the numbers. We've gone from a daily national death toll of roughly 2000 in mid-April down to an average daily death toll in the 300s today. That's 3 months. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next month to those numbers. I think the number will gradually continue to fall. Meanwhile the CFR has continued to fall. IF you consider the estimates via serology from the CDC. the national rate of infection is roughly 10-12%. IF you use that number, the CFR is ridiculously low.
 

Crazyhole

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I've been quoting a Worldometer prediction from several months ago of about 167,000 deaths in the U.S. I can't find that graph anymore so they must have taken it down. That said, it has been very very accurate with the way this thing has gone. It had national death totals dropping to a very low level by September 1st. Now IF some of these states (New Jersey cough cough) keep dumping large numbers of deaths from people who die from other causes, then that is going to skew the numbers. We've gone from a daily national death toll of roughly 2000 in mid-April down to an average daily death toll in the 300s today. That's 3 months. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next month to those numbers. I think the number will gradually continue to fall. Meanwhile the CFR has continued to fall. IF you consider the estimates via serology from the CDC. the national rate of infection is roughly 10-12%. IF you use that number, the CFR is ridiculously low.
Ridiculously low especially in people under 70. Four zeros after the decimal point low.
 

Charlie Marlow

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The only "experts" I've heard or read say that COVID deaths are under-reported are a couple of "experts" on here. MAYBE we have a few that don't get counted but everybody who dies without an obvious traumatic cause of death is getting a postmortem COVID test by pathologists. IF they don't test for COVID in a person who dies in hospice care, then I don't see why that one should be counted anyway. Most people who enter hospice have a matter of a few days to live.
Nah, I'm not doing your homework for you. I've posted this info several times in other covid posts. Go dig it up yourself.
 

dinglefritz

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Nah, I'm not doing your homework for you. I've posted this info several times in other covid posts. Go dig it up yourself.
I've seen opinions that make that case from people who I don't classify as experts. IMO, I believe there are FAR more cases being counted as COVID deaths that are not in fact COVID deaths than the other way around. I've seen way too many instances and one close to home that substantiate that. There's too much money at stake for state governments and medical facilities for them to fail to report a death as a COVID death.
 
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little a

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I've seen opinions that make that case from people who I don't classify as experts. IMO, I believe there are FAR more cases being counted as COVID deaths that are not in fact COVID deaths than the other way around. I've seen way too many instances where and one close to home that substantiate that. There's too much money at stake for state governments and medical facilities for them to fail to report a death as a COVID death.
How are state and medical facilities making exorbitant money off COVID? Do they get to upcode?
 

dinglefritz

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How are state and medical facilities making exorbitant money off COVID? Do they get to upcode?
I've been told that medical facilities get a payment for COVID diagnosis and that states get more money via provisions in one of the Corona virus relief acts. The Cares act alone provided over 50 billion to nursing homes for COVID. I would have to talk to our local administrators to find out exactly what they get. The nursing homes according to an article I read are reimbursed by Medicare and Medicaid 4 times as much for a COVID patient. Aid to the states going forward is tied in some manner to the number of COVID deaths they have. The provisions of those bills and Medicare/Medicaid are not in my wheelhouse so don't quote me on this stuff. There's already stories coming about fraudulent claims from nursing homes.
 
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jlb321

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hospitals are not getting financially rewarded for deaths - do people really think there is a financial incentive for a hospital if a patient they are treating dies versus lives - that physicians when making rounds hear that a patient has shown progress and might live - secretly say to themselves - "damn - they are getting better"

I don't know who brought up autopsy - but autopsies don't get done unless the cause is labeled as suspicious and there has to a very high degree of suspicion - an elderly patient who dies isn't getting an autopsy - unless there is a suspicion of a homicide, etc

people are talking out of their asses
 
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leodisflowers

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hospitals are not getting financially rewarded for deaths - do people really think there is a financial incentive for a hospital if a patient they are treating dies versus lives - that physicians when making rounds
hear that a patient has shown progress and might live - secretly says to themselves - "damn - they are getting better"

I don't know who brought up autopsy - but autopsies don't get done unless the cause is labeled as suspicious and there has to a very high degree of suspicion - an elderly patient who dies isn't getting an autopsy - unless there is a suspicion of a homicide, etc

people are talking out of their asses
It isn't about death.. Hospitals are getting more money for Covid patients in a lot of instances. They might be in for something else, but in the event they test positive for Covid and they die, they are populating the statistic. My co-workers wife's hospital has seen this a few times. One example was the patient died of a heart attack, but had Covid-19. That person's death is included in the stats for Covid-19. There are many instances of this all over. Did Covid-19 contribute to it? Maybe. But a lot of hospitals are getting extra financial assistance for the treatment of the virus.
 

jlb321

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It isn't about death.. Hospitals are getting more money for Covid patients in a lot of instances. They might be in for something else, but in the event they test positive for Covid and they die, they are populating the statistic. My co-workers wife's hospital has seen this a few times. One example was the patient died of a heart attack, but had Covid-19. That person's death is included in the stats for Covid-19. There are many instances of this all over. Did Covid-19 contribute to it? Maybe. But a lot of hospitals are getting extra financial assistance for the treatment of the virus.
go up and read through this thread and see how many times someone pops off about reimbursement for deaths -- "I've been told that medical facilities get a payment for COVID deaths"

the treatment of a COVID patient requires a tremendous amount of resources - hospitals are going through a years worth of PPE in a month where cases are high - nursing ratios need to be changed, when able
many hospitals provide a donning and doffing supervisor to prevent staff from self contamination
installation of more negative pressure rooms and isolation areas

CMS has come up with a COVID DRG and assigned a payment - people are taking this to mean there are huge extra incentives - CMS provides payment for every other diagnosis - COVID -19 pneumonia didn't exist until very recently - so yes CMS and other insurers have come up with a code and payment for COVID - just like it does for acute MI, or pseudomonas pneumonia, or any other disease

the comments about autopsies are laughable
 
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dinglefritz

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It isn't about death.. Hospitals are getting more money for Covid patients in a lot of instances. They might be in for something else, but in the event they test positive for Covid and they die, they are populating the statistic. My co-workers wife's hospital has seen this a few times. One example was the patient died of a heart attack, but had Covid-19. That person's death is included in the stats for Covid-19. There are many instances of this all over. Did Covid-19 contribute to it? Maybe. But a lot of hospitals are getting extra financial assistance for the treatment of the virus.
you're right. It's for the diagnosis not the death as I mistakenly stated in my post. IF they don't list COVID for a patient who dies, they don't get the extra money for the care. The POINT was/is that there's a financial incentive to diagnose COVID.
 
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dinglefritz

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COVID treatment would typically cost more too.
I would guess that the average COVID patient costs less per day than the average ICU patient in general. Maybe jlb321 can weigh in on that. Working in an ICU he should have those exact numbers at his finger tips. High flow oxygen isn't nearly as expensive as a ventilator and relatively speaking very few COVID patients are getting put on vents now. As he said, there wasn't a specific COVID pneumonia code prior to this but there was a generic code for someone with pneumonia. The COVID code is exactly to provide financial reward for a COVID diagnosis. There would be more cost for PPE but the biggest thing is that its outside the normal range of care and its a pain in the ass.
 

jlb321

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I would guess that the average COVID patient costs less per day than the average ICU patient in general. Maybe jlb321 can weigh in on that. Working in an ICU he should have those exact numbers at his finger tips. High flow oxygen isn't nearly as expensive as a ventilator and relatively speaking very few COVID patients are getting put on vents now. As he said, there wasn't a specific COVID pneumonia code prior to this but there was a generic code for someone with pneumonia. The COVID code is exactly to provide financial reward for a COVID diagnosis. There would be more cost for PPE but the biggest thing is that its outside the normal range of care and its a pain in the ass.

very few hospital physicians at large academic centers know what a particluar code/procedure pays -
It differs for each insurance provider

our med staff, ICU team, hospitalists, trauma surgeons, cardiac surgeons etc get paid a salary as is the case in most tertiary care centers

they don't make more money if they see 5 patients one day and 50 the next - the hospital does but not the provider

in general the more specific the code the higher the reimbursement

pneumonia pays less than viral pneumonia which pays less than viral pneumonia due to influenza with associated acute hypoxemic/hypercapnic respiratory failure and ARDS

I don't get paid any more or less if we place someone on ECMO, put someone on life support, place a central line, put someone on dialysis, etc

we frankly don’t even know if patient x-y or z has health insurance
 
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dinglefritz

College Football Hall of Fame
Jan 14, 2011
24,485
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very few hospital physicians at large academic centers know what a particluar code/procedure pays -
It differs for each insurance provider

our med staff, ICU team, hospitalists, trauma surgeons, cardiac surgeons etc get paid a salary as is the case in most tertiary care centers

they don't make more money if they see 5 patients one day and 50 the next - the hospital does but not the provider

in general the more specific the code the higher the reimbursement

pneumonia pays less than viral pneumonia which pays less than viral pneumonia due to influenza with associated acute hypoxemic/hypercapnic respiratory failure and ARDS

I don't get paid any more or less if we place someone on ECMO, put someone on life support, place a central line, put someone on dialysis, etc

we frankly don’t even know if patient x-y or z has health insurance
It's one of the things that always made me shake my head. When I would ask my spouse how much a drug or medical procedure cost, she would always just shrug her shoulders. They had no idea. Now I think they have a much better idea than they used to. The screws have been tightened down on what insurance will pay for based on cost.
 

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