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OT: Japanese's highest ranking Dr. in their health ministry says:

Interestingly the CDC now says that the cheapy blue "surgical" masks that stores are selling are more effective than the KN95 masks at stopping viral particles from passing. Is that true or is that more misdirection? Who knows. It's a sad deal when a government agency has become so politicized that we can't trust what they're telling us.....mmm maybe we should understand that is true with all government agencies.

The good news as far as people who won't get vaccinated goes is is that more than likely they will get exposed naturally and IF IF IF the immunity generated is long lasting enough from that, a population immunity MIGHT wipe this thing out permanently. We can only hope.
Yeah that's totally bs from the CDC IMO. No way that could be even close to possible but gotta convince the masses to keep wearing a chain link fence to keep out a mosquito. My n95 masks we've worn/used for 40+ years as dust masks when cleaning out grain bins are MUCH better.
 
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Amazing all of the matter-of-fact knowledge about Covid on this thread by non medical people. Will most recover - absolutely. Some may never realize symptoms.

So why is a such a big deal ? Simple: our hospital-medical personnel in many of our bigger cities are close to capacity and overload. I have relatives, loved ones, and friends working at hospitals in Chicago and Columbus - the 2 largest cities in the Midwest - that are totally stressed and worn out with caring for people with Covid. They'll be overloaded and will have to choose who to care for in the very near future if it doesn't slow down in the next few weeks - sort of like the horror stories we saw out of Italy when this stuff started. Nothing like the damn flu.

Do I like wearing a mask ? No, but I will to protect myself and loved ones. Are masks a 100% guarantee. Of course not but they do slow down the spray a ton. Why not wear one until a vaccine gets here ? I'll tell you why: some people will not change their views and ways even when they know they're wrong. It comes down to dumbasses saying / thinking you can't tell me what to do - it's my right to not wear a mask as an American even if it does mean increasing the odds of increasing people around me. Yet, if they come down with severe Covid, they'll be the first one at hospital emergency room demanding care while probably shutting someone else out with a less severe ailment in the very near future. God Bless America !

These idiotic talking points make sheep and their appeals to authority look even dumber as time goes on.

Hospitals are not full. Either do the job or don't but stop being attention whores.
 
Yeah that's totally bs from the CDC IMO. No way that could be even close to possible but gotta convince the masses to keep wearing a chain link fence to keep out a mosquito. My n95 masks we've worn/used for 40+ years as dust masks when cleaning out grain bins are MUCH better.
N95 masks were at the top of the rankings by their study. KN95s were down the list a ways due I guess to their construction. I think it has to do with the way they're layered. The bottom line on all of them is that it is very difficult to get a good close fit to your face so other than stopping large direct droplets they're not a guarantee.
 
This is code for they don't have a freaking clue.

If their asymptomatic how did they know they have it? And how did they know they were the 1st one to have it? They don't know.
They're doing routine testing of employees in most cases at least twice per week and in some cases every other day. They find positive employees pretty quickly but unfortunately not quickly enough for some patients. The other thing is that those infected employees are giving it to their coworkers. Kind of surprising isn't it that those positive people would pass it on to patients and their coworkers given how stringent they are on mask protocols.......
 
They're doing routine testing of employees in most cases at least twice per week and in some cases every other day. They find positive employees pretty quickly but unfortunately not quickly enough for some patients. The other thing is that those infected employees are giving it to their coworkers. Kind of surprising isn't it that those positive people would pass it on to patients and their coworkers given how stringent they are on mask protocols.......

You realize if we had gone with herd immunity, this "pandemic" would already be over.
This ain't the Andromeda strain. It's the flu. Remember, the same people who spent 4 years worried about Russia, used the flu as an excuse to do the bidding of communist China.
 
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about a week ago and even prior to that bloomberg reported a huge outbreak in japan. they didnt report the numbers so i went and looked it up. turns out it was a little over 500. wow what an outbreak. curiosity enticed me to look up what they were treating wuhan flu with. numerous antivirals, some steroids, and good old friend hydroxychloroquine (has to be given early).
as far as vacines i would be a little hesitant about the two mrna vacines at least until time has proven no untoward problems with them. in the realm of human vacines this method is new and longterm safety has not been established in humankind.
the astra zenica vacine is more along the line of traditional vacines and may provide much longer coverage at much less cost. it should be ready to go soon once they figure out the correct dose. there are others coming down the line also.
The Astra Zeneca vaccine is not more along the lines of "traditional vaccines". Their vaccine is a genetically engineered Adenovirus live virus which typically causes "colds" in monkeys. They splice COVID genetic material in to that Adenovirus to produce the vaccine. While I'm not generally afraid of vaccines, this one concerns me just a little. Personally I have no worries at all about Pfizer's vaccine.

Pfizer's vaccine is an avirulent mRNA subunit vaccine and that is about as safe as you are going to get. Protein subunit vaccines have been around for many years and have been proven safe and effective in multiple species.
 
You realize if we had gone with herd immunity, this "pandemic" would already be over.
This ain't the Andromeda strain. It's the flu. Remember, the same people who spent 4 years worried about Russia, used the flu as an excuse to do the bidding of communist China.

EDIT: got a question for ya ... next time we have a new strain of corona (sometime in the next 10 years if you go by past experiences), should we do this again? The new normal. Every 10 years make us weaker until we are Haiti?
Herd immunity is basically what is going on in South Dakota. Their governor is getting attacked by NPR and leftists writing letters to South Dakota papers. One internist from up there told me that the CDC estimated that they are approaching 80% exposure rate now. He doesn't believe that number nor do I but I would bet it's near 50 at least. The problem for them is that they had a HUGE number of people over the age of 80 up there and it's showing up in the death loss.

Meanwhile their manufacturers are running radio ads trying to lure employees because they can't hire enough people. South Dakota is booming and will continue to boom. Thousands of people are moving there from blue states across the country.
 
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Apparently they have the cure. But we have to wait for a rushed vaccine.

I would take that testimony with a grain of salt. Ivermectins have never been shown to be effective against any viral or bacterial pathogens before. They are used against parasites. In addition the study that was done on Ivermectin for COVID was EXTREMELY flawed and didn't really show benefit as I read it. Don't go out taking your dog's heartworm meds based on that study.
 
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The actual start of the tea party was centered around stopping wall street looting and starting prosecuting. Neither of which happened under the one president that could have done it.

It morphed due to the Koch brothers but the original impetus was a libertarian one, not conservative or republican. Occupy wall st came soon after with a far left bent.

Obama? Threw zero bankers in prison.

Point with the history lesson? Blaming the tea party is asinine to an extent and the hyper partisan stuff goes way further back. Tip O'Neil and Reagan say hello.
As I said, politics are ugly, always have been, and surely always will be, but there was, in fact, a period of bipartisanship in American politics that no longer exists. Compared to the present, Reagan enjoyed considerable bipartisan support. But I dispute your characterization of the Tea Party. It may be more precisely libertarian in origin, but it's evolution is now inextricably linked with the Republican party.

I make no attempt to excuse Obama policies that failed, or his decision to bail out Wall Street rather than Main Street in the aftermath of the housing market crash. I'm not really sure with what this has to do with the original question of divisiveness. But since you're gonna throw shade at Obama, let's be fair about our current president, who claimed to speak for the working man in the forgotten corners of America, but has completely abandoned these people in favor of billionaires and corporate America. Small businesses are being destroyed during covid, and small farms ravaged in the trade war with China. The problem with the conservatives on this board is they're so busy trying to defend the president that they don't hold him accountable for anything. The extreme right blames the left for killing small businesses because of shutdowns, but Republicans, including Trump, could choose to funnel aid to small businesses, instead the money specifically set aside for Average Joe is going to the wealthy.
 
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As I said, politics are ugly, always have been, and surely always will be, but there was, in fact, a period of bipartisanship in American politics that no longer exists. Compared to the present, Reagan enjoyed considerable bipartisan support. But I dispute your characterization of the Tea Party. It may be more precisely libertarian in origin, but it's evolution is now inextricably linked with the Republican party.

I make no attempt to excuse Obama policies that failed, or his decision to bail out Wall Street rather than Main Street in the aftermath of the housing market crash. I'm not really sure with what this has to do with the original question of divisiveness. But since you're gonna throw shade at Obama, let's be fair about our current president, who claimed to speak for the working man in the forgotten corners of America, but has completely abandoned these people in favor of billionaires and corporate America. Small businesses are being destroyed during covid, and small farms ravaged in the trade war with China. The problem with the conservatives on this board is they're so busy trying to defend the president that they don't hold him accountable for anything. The extreme right blames the left for killing small businesses because of shutdowns, but Republicans, including Trump, could choose to funnel aid to small businesses, instead the money specifically set aside for Average Joe is going to the wealthy.
The only time we've had "bipartisanship" in our government was during wars and when the Republicans bent over for the Democrat party after Nixon resigned. Bipartisanship is only a "thing" that the media screams for when the Democrats are out of power.
 
As I said, politics are ugly, always have been, and surely always will be, but there was, in fact, a period of bipartisanship in American politics that no longer exists. Compared to the present, Reagan enjoyed considerable bipartisan support. But I dispute your characterization of the Tea Party. It may be more precisely libertarian in origin, but it's evolution is now inextricably linked with the Republican party.

I make no attempt to excuse Obama policies that failed, or his decision to bail out Wall Street rather than Main Street in the aftermath of the housing market crash. I'm not really sure with what this has to do with the original question of divisiveness. But since you're gonna throw shade at Obama, let's be fair about our current president, who claimed to speak for the working man in the forgotten corners of America, but has completely abandoned these people in favor of billionaires and corporate America. Small businesses are being destroyed during covid, and small farms ravaged in the trade war with China. The problem with the conservatives on this board is they're so busy trying to defend the president that they don't hold him accountable for anything. The extreme right blames the left for killing small businesses because of shutdowns, but Republicans, including Trump, could choose to funnel aid to small businesses, instead the money specifically set aside for Average Joe is going to the wealthy.


You can dispute all you want. That's what the tea party was meant to be. The rest that you refer to is what the Koch brothers morphed it into.

Happens all the time because people are stupid.. green ideas are killed by the democrats because they (the decent people on the extreme) are stupid too..

The concept of effectively starting over with police contracts and breaking unions is actually a libertarian one as well. It got taken to "defund the police" and thus the movement is neutered because of soundbites.

Both parties do it. They neuter their radical elements by soundbiting it.

Both parties are evil.

That means yours. Period.
 
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The only time we've had "bipartisanship" in our government was during wars and when the Republicans bent over for the Democrat party after Nixon resigned. Bipartisanship is only a "thing" that the media screams for when the Democrats are out of power.
I'm not saying that American politics were always bipartisan, but to suggest that bipartisanship existed only during times of war and after Nixon shows how very little you know about American history. And the constant blaming of the media for everything is misplaced. The extent to which the average person knows a damn thing about what's happening in the wider world ain't because of government, and it certainly doesn't appear from thin air. It's because a journalist took the time to report it, verify the facts, have an editor scrutinize and clean the copy, and a legal team to sign off on it. All this so a bunch a philistines without the foggiest notion for how society functions can scream at the top of their lungs about some cabal trying to steal their freedoms because they have to wear a seatbelt.
 
Meanwhile their manufacturers are running radio ads trying to lure employees because they can't hire enough people. South Dakota is booming and will continue to boom. Thousands of people are moving there from blue states across the country.

There are tons of companies who can't find employees to work. One story I heard recently is the company is willing to pay people who live an hour a ay 10 hrs of pay to work an 8 hr day. It's nuts. It's also in one of the most shut down states. And the extra unemployment benefit is supporting it.

Imagine being a business owner and having to fight the govt to find employees.

Any smart business would be trying hard to fill open positions with good candidates now.
 
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Kerpal, sorry to hear about your grandparents.
Thanks I only regret not going to see them more this summer. I can guarantee knowing my grandparents they would have chose to die months ago seeing family like normal over not seeing anyone this summer.

Sorry to hear that. I have lost four family members this year, two to COVID and two to cancer. The two that died of COVID were on my Dad's side and they both passed in October, 5 days apart. As one can imagine it's been quite a blow to my Dad. They were in their 70's, the oldest of 8 kids, both had some health issues. I lost my uncle Mike to cancer and my Aunt's husband to cancer as well. I have not had COVID but my older brother, his wife, and their daughter have had it. My brother described the symptoms as very mild in comparison to the flu he had last year. They were in town to visit and did not know at that time they were positive. We went out to eat with them twice...go figure?

Thanks, I remember not long ago i didn't even know anyone that has had covid.
 
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We're still very early in the cold and flu seasons coupled with the fact that most people have some degree of immunity to influenza.
seems to me this virus seems to mimic the cold and flu season and flu nationally is down dramatically. Is this virus more contagious than the flu or is it being transmitted in a different way
 
These idiotic talking points make sheep and their appeals to authority look even dumber as time goes on.

Hospitals are not full. Either do the job or don't but stop being attention whores.

Hospitals are 95% full in my area - just released yesterday. Whose really the attention whore ?

Deadliest Days in US History
1. Galveston Hurricane – 8000
2. Antietam – 3600
3. Sept. 11, 2001 - 2977
4. Last Thursday - 2861
5. Last Wednesday - 2762
6. Last Tuesday - 2461
7. Last Friday - 2439
8. Pearl Harbor – 2403
 
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If you truly believe that what I wrote is BS, then you truly don't know how the best journalism gets done. Seriously, you have no idea. And that is a huge part of the problem. You've bought into the echo chamber mentality of media, where you just go to the sources of "information" that speak to your views.
 
If you truly believe that what I wrote is BS, then you truly don't know how the best journalism gets done. Seriously, you have no idea. And that is a huge part of the problem. You've bought into the echo chamber mentality of media, where you just go to the sources of "information" that speak to your views.
Now you want to qualify your statement to the best journalism? I agree in an ideal world that’s how it should work but we’re nowhere near that.
And I don’t rely on the media to tell me how to think. If I have interest in a subject I do my own research and decide what’s crap and what’s not.
 
Now you want to qualify your statement to the best journalism? I agree in an ideal world that’s how it should work but we’re nowhere near that.
And I don’t rely on the media to tell me how to think. If I have interest in a subject I do my own research and decide what’s crap and what’s not.
Of course I qualify the statement because there is just so much out there, and clearly not all of it good. The mere mention of the media on this forum elicits an immediate "CNN sucks" response, as if that comprises the entirety of news media. At the same time, most on here who bash the media claim that it's all bad, and that is just crap. As for doing your own research, that's all fine and well. Nobody is suggesting that the media should tell you how to think. The media is intended to inform about what's going on in your community, your country and the world. The average newspaper article is probably no more than 500 words. It should be obvious that if you want to know more you'll have to do some digging of your own.
 
If you truly believe that what I wrote is BS, then you truly don't know how the best journalism gets done. Seriously, you have no idea. And that is a huge part of the problem. You've bought into the echo chamber mentality of media, where you just go to the sources of "information" that speak to your views.
If you think that’s how things get to print/tv, you’ve clearly never worked in a newsroom.

Legal is entirely reactive in media (obviously), verifying facts typically boils down to “more than 1 person/entity said it”, and editors have much more grammatical concern than substantial concern.
 
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You are such a douche, you know that, right? It's fairly easy to gauge the intelligence of a person from the quality of their writing. Do you see where I'm going with this? Of course you don't.

Easy Cap “write everything in one giant paragraph” danjou. I wouldn’t talk grammar smack if I were you.
 
Of course I qualify the statement because there is just so much out there, and clearly not all of it good. The mere mention of the media on this forum elicits an immediate "CNN sucks" response, as if that comprises the entirety of news media. At the same time, most on here who bash the media claim that it's all bad, and that is just crap. As for doing your own research, that's all fine and well. Nobody is suggesting that the media should tell you how to think. The media is intended to inform about what's going on in your community, your country and the world. The average newspaper article is probably no more than 500 words. It should be obvious that if you want to know more you'll have to do some digging of your own.
It’s no secret that what’s considered the “mainstream” media is biased and tries to tell the consumer how to think.
 
It’s no secret that what’s considered the “mainstream” media is biased and tries to tell the consumer how to think.
if @Capdanjou's fantasy about the checks and balances of journalism was even 20% accurate, there would be no need for a 'Retractions' section, which exist in literally every print media outlet across the free world at least once/month, if not more frequently.
 
if @Capdanjou's fantasy about the checks and balances of journalism was even 20% accurate, there would be no need for a 'Retractions' section, which exist in literally every print media outlet across the free world at least once/month, if not more frequently.
Dude, you can't be this oblivious. A retraction IS accountability. How many professions make public their mistakes? The business community, which many in this forum hold in the highest regard, never admits mistakes. Neither do the military or political class. If perfection is the metric by which you measure all human endeavors, then we are all complete failures.
 
Dude, you can't be this oblivious. A retraction IS accountability. How many professions make public their mistakes? The business community, which many in this forum hold in the highest regard, never admits mistakes. Neither do the military or political class. If perfection is the metric by which you measure all human endeavors, then we are all complete failures.
Dude, you're the one who claims everything printed is okay-ed by a legal team. this is (extremely obviously) not the case.

talk about oblivious. you have very clearly never worked in a newsroom.

retractions are printed weeks, if not months later, buried on the back page. I'd bet less than 25% of readers even know they are printed at all.

I'm not asking for perfection, just a refrain from talking completely out of your ass with the utmost confidence.
 
Dude, you're the one who claims everything printed is okay-ed by a legal team.

talk about oblivious. you have very clearly never worked in a newsroom.

retractions are printed weeks, if not months later, buried on the back page.
You're willfully missing the point. If a news agency is publishing a legally sensitive report they will certainly vet with a legal team. All major news agencies have legal representation to avoid lawsuits. But I give up, your ignorance wins this round.
 
You're willfully missing the point. If a news agency is publishing a legally sensitive report they will certainly vet with a legal team. All major news agencies have legal representation to avoid lawsuits. But I give up, your ignorance wins this round.
sorry, is this not what you wrote?:
The extent to which the average person knows a damn thing about what's happening in the wider world ain't because of government, and it certainly doesn't appear from thin air. It's because a journalist took the time to report it, verify the facts, have an editor scrutinize and clean the copy, and a legal team to sign off on it.
I don't see any disclaimers here where you refer only to legally sensitive information. if that's what you inferred, might I suggest posting with more clarity?

from a legal clearance standpoint, maybe 1% of all words printed in a year are proactively looked over. maybe. the legal teams retained by media companies are there for exact reasons they're retained anywhere else: to avoid paying out when a suit is brought against them. not to vet copy.

my 'ignorance' is born from years of experience in many roles within a newsroom.
 
sorry, is this not what you wrote?:

I don't see any disclaimers here where you refer only to legally sensitive information. if that's what you inferred, might I suggest posting with more clarity?

from a legal clearance standpoint, maybe 1% of all words printed in a year are proactively looked over. maybe. the legal teams retained by media companies are there for exact reasons they're retained anywhere else: to avoid paying out when a suit is brought against them. not to vet copy.

my 'ignorance' is born from years of experience in many roles within a newsroom.
Where'd you work?
 
sorry, is this not what you wrote?:

I don't see any disclaimers here where you refer only to legally sensitive information. if that's what you inferred, might I suggest posting with more clarity?

from a legal clearance standpoint, maybe 1% of all words printed in a year are proactively looked over. maybe. the legal teams retained by media companies are there for exact reasons they're retained anywhere else: to avoid paying out when a suit is brought against them. not to vet copy.

my 'ignorance' is born from years of experience in many roles within a newsroom.
Sorry, clarity is not highly valued on this forum. We speak in broad generalities here, or didn't you get the memo?
 
Sorry, clarity is not highly valued on this forum. We speak in broad generalities here, or didn't you get the memo?
perhaps owning up to the fact you have zero practical clue about which you are spouting instead of lashing out and calling strangers ignorant would be the best route for you here.

merely a suggestion. do with it what you will.
 
perhaps owning up to the fact you have zero practical clue about which you are spouting instead of lashing out and calling strangers ignorant would be the best route for you here.

merely a suggestion. do with it what you will.
Let me get this straight, you call me out for failing to use a surgeon's precision in fully detailing the inner workings of national newsrooms, but apparently it's perfectly okay for you and several others, who you are clearly defending, to spew lazy and often grossly inaccurate critiques of the media?

For the record, I have both legal and media experience. In other words, my perspective is far from ignorant. Moreover, blaming the media for all manner of human error deserves a response, because it is ignorant, as you say, and is mostly coming from people who have "zero practical clue" about journalism.
 
Let me get this straight, you call me out for failing to use a surgeon's precision in fully detailing the inner workings of national newsrooms, but apparently it's perfectly okay for you and several others, who you are clearly defending, to spew lazy and often grossly inaccurate critiques of the media?

For the record, I have both legal and media experience. In other words, my perspective is far from ignorant. Moreover, blaming the media for all manner of human error deserves a response, because it is ignorant, as you say, and is mostly coming from people who have "zero practical clue" about journalism.
please quote my defense of anyone. I'll wait.

I'd like for you to not make this about anything aside from what I've specifically addressed. thanks.
 
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