OT: Covid -19 Vaccine

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GBRforLife1

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The reason likely is that nobody knows for sure how long the protection from a natural infection lasts. A few people seem to have gotten the virus more than once (yes, I know that's a speculative conclusion and actual statistics are unknown) but why take the risk is the thought I'd guess. Get vaccinated to improve your chances. But IMO yes those that have had the virus already should go to the back of the waiting line.

If they can be reinfected after they've already had the virus how is the vaccine going to help them?
 

RedCap

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Sep 29, 2001
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If they can be reinfected after they've already had the virus how is the vaccine going to help them?
Well we just don't have all the answers at this point. There are more unanswered questions at this point. For example, we don't know the difference between immunity provided by having had the disease and the vaccines. Do the vaccines provide a higher level of protection? We don't know.

What we know is that in the vaccine trials, people that were vaccinated did not get the disease vs. those that were given the placebo who did. Statistically that added up to 95% immunity in the trials. BUT obviously no one knows how long that protection lasts and whether for sure or not that people who had the disease need to get vaccinated. And no one knows either yet whether people who are vaccinated and don't get the disease still can be asymptomatic carriers to other people who weren't vaccinated.

So for the moment, it just seems safe to conclude that getting vaccinated is better than not getting vaccinated. Not a satisfying answer for many BUT that's the reality at the moment. We have to deal with the current situation where many deaths still are occurring among those not vaccinated.
 

RedCap

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Do you have numbers for that? In Nebraska we are barely administering 1/2 of what the state has been given and that gap grows every day. Seems we are spending more energy deciding who gets it than just getting it done.
You can get the stats (updated daily except on the weekends) for the nation and by individual state at the CDC website. Best data there is but I caution we don't know whether the data is as accurate or as timely as it could be. But it's all we got.
 

Crazyhole

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Jun 4, 2004
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Well we just don't have all the answers at this point. There are more unanswered questions at this point. For example, we don't know the difference between immunity provided by having had the disease and the vaccines. Do the vaccines provide a higher level of protection? We don't know.

What we know is that in the vaccine trials, people that were vaccinated did not get the disease vs. those that were given the placebo who did. Statistically that added up to 95% immunity in the trials. BUT obviously no one knows how long that protection lasts and whether for sure or not that people who had the disease need to get vaccinated. And no one knows either yet whether people who are vaccinated and don't get the disease still can be asymptomatic carriers to other people who weren't vaccinated.

So for the moment, it just seems safe to conclude that getting vaccinated is better than not getting vaccinated. Not a satisfying answer for many BUT that's the reality at the moment. We have to deal with the current situation where many deaths still are occurring among those not vaccinated.
I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that getting exposed to it naturally is a better way of building immunity than from vaccination. And after either one, the worst thing you can do is to not allow yourself to continue being exposed to it. Stop wearing a mask, period. You WANT your body to keep getting exposed to it as often as possible.
 
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huskerfan66

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There are some very bright virologists and epidemiologists who believe immunity via natural infection will be very long lasting in the vast majority of people. I've also seen estimates that immunity conveyed by vaccination will be measured in years and not months. I have NO idea why they are still recommending that people who had the virus get vaccinated. It doesn't make any sense to me. You've had the ultimate vaccine.

As examples, tetanus vaccination was once thought to last for a lifetime. Then it was 10 years. I had a Rabies vaccination in grad school over 40 years ago. I had my titre checked about 10 years ago and I was still protected. It will be interesting to see where this all lands epidemiologically when we get a year out from now.
I was told today that you can get the rona every 3 months. Who the heck knows 😏
 

huskerfan66

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Frustrating how slow the process is in Nebraska and the distribution ratio to states is not balanced to population. I have several 65-70 year old cousins in Colorado without underlying health concerns received the vaccine 10 days ago and MIL in Holdrege nursing home just got her first shot this week. My 93 year old father still at home is “on the list” but yet to get a shot by Two Rivers Health Dept or even hear a timetable.

The sad part is that it is reported only half of the vaccine the state has received has found an arm. Unacceptable IMO. If this is so urgent where is the sense of urgency by these local health departments?
My 87 yr old Mom got a call this week to be put on the list if she wants vac. They have to get a count so they can "order" the vac. They said they'd be in touch
 

RedCap

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I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that getting exposed to it naturally is a better way of building immunity than from vaccination. And after either one, the worst thing you can do is to not allow yourself to continue being exposed to it. Stop wearing a mask, period. You WANT your body to keep getting exposed to it as often as possible.
Well that's your judgement of course which is fine but the reality is there are many opinions but no one has those answers from scientific studies yet.
 
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Crazyhole

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Well that's your judgement of course which is fine but the reality is there are many opinions but no one has those answers from scientific studies yet.
Thats not my judgment, its proven science. Why is it bad for people to take antibiotics for too long? Same principle.
 
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RedCap

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Thats not my judgment, its proven science. Why is it bad for people to take antibiotics for too long? Same principle.
OK if you say it's proven scientific judgment, please provide the reputable links specific to Covid-19 scientific studies which have shown those statements to be valid. Not trying to being argumentative, I just want to see that undisputable proof for myself.

And of course a comparison to antibiotics is just trying to make an interpretive analogy. That's not proof that's opinion. No problems with people expressing opinions but it clearly needs to be stated as an opinion not scientific fact.
 
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Crazyhole

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OK if you say it's proven scientific judgment, please provide the reputable links specific to Covid-19 scientific studies which have shown those statements to be valid. Not trying to being argumentative, I just want to see that undisputable proof for myself.

And of course a comparison to antibiotics is just trying to make an interpretive analogy. That's not proof that's opinion. No problems with people expressing opinions but it clearly needs to be stated as an opinion not scientific fact.
Just look at it logically. Put a time limit on immunity of however long you'd like, but let's say its 100 days. So you catch a brand new virus, your body recovers and has immunity to it for 100 days, in other words it has learned how to fight it off. So the clock starts on your immunity. Well, if you isolate yourself completely for 100 days and after that you're exposed to it again, your body essentially has to re-learn how to fight it off (not taking into account t-cell memory). But if you don't isolate yourself from it and are exposed again in 10 days, the body recognizes it and the clock restarts. Then in 10 days, the same thing happens and the clock restarts again. Its a continuous cycle and your body is doing it all the time with dozens of viruses that you get exposed to. That exposure allows you to have a healthy immune system. Can we agree on that much?
 
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Bart Man

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My 87 yr old Mom got a call this week to be put on the list if she wants vac. They have to get a count so they can "order" the vac. They said they'd be in touch
Good for her. Which health department serves where she lives if you will?
 

RedCap

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Just look at it logically. Put a time limit on immunity of however long you'd like, but let's say its 100 days. So you catch a brand new virus, your body recovers and has immunity to it for 100 days, in other words it has learned how to fight it off. So the clock starts on your immunity. Well, if you isolate yourself completely for 100 days and after that you're exposed to it again, your body essentially has to re-learn how to fight it off (not taking into account t-cell memory). But if you don't isolate yourself from it and are exposed again in 10 days, the body recognizes it and the clock restarts. Then in 10 days, the same thing happens and the clock restarts again. Its a continuous cycle and your body is doing it all the time with dozens of viruses that you get exposed to. That exposure allows you to have a healthy immune system. Can we agree on that much?
I'll agree that you could be right but we just don't know yet with scientific evidence is my point. Logical conclusions are reasoning and that's fine, I do it all the time, but they're not scientific proof.
 
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Good for her. Which health department serves where she lives if you will?
My 87 yr old Mom got a call this week to be put on the list if she wants vac. They have to get a count so they can "order" the vac. They said they'd be in touch
Same with my parents. They got the call to be put on a list and will get another one when the vaccine is available sometime this week.
 

GBRforLife1

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I'll agree that you could be right but we just don't know yet with scientific evidence is my point. Logical conclusions are reasoning and that's fine, I do it all the time, but they're not scientific proof.

Is it reasonable to assume you don't wear masks, because of the whole lack of scientific proof thing?
 

TruHusker

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Sep 21, 2001
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A friend and his wife are both docs and have lots of family and friends in the medical field. A good friend travels and teaches medical classes all over the world and works with the WHO. He told our friends that statistically they know where the largest number of covid deaths will.cime from.snd it is nursing homes which wasn't a surprise but the percentage was more than I would guessed, well over 90% but I don't remember the exact number but it was middle 90's. That is not just USA, that is worldwide.

The early experiment if putting covid patients in nursing homes was a disaster.

Another friend had a doctor tell him that most of what we are doing is not going to protect us. He described the size of the virus compared to a human hair. Aside from a true N95 mask, most of them that people wear are doing nothing.
 

z28craz

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Jan 5, 2004
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Why did you get the vaccine if you already had covid?

Because nobody knows our immunity. It could be 90 days, it could be 9 months, it could be lifetime. But ultimately nobody knows. For all I know I may have to get a booster annually. Or I could already be immune. But who knows, that’s why it’s called a NOVEL virus... it’s never been seen before So we just don’t know. We’re just making the best decisions with what information we have. I would seriously question anyone claiming otherwise.

As for the vaccine... First coronavirus is not new. Coronaviruses have been around since the dawn of mankind. They have been studied for decades, if not centuries. While this particular coronavirus may be new, the very fact that it is a coronavirus suggests that it shares certain genetic similarities to other coronaviruses. We already have vaccines for certain coronaviruses for animals. I don’t think it’s a difficult leap of logic to think that if we have animal vaccines for coronavirus and if we have a basic understanding of the genetic makeup of coronaviruses that we could adapt something for humans in a relatively short period of time.

With regard to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. They are based in MRNA technology. Again... nothing new. We have been studying MRNA protein for the better part of 30 years. My mom went through an MRNA study 8 years ago when she was terminally ill with Melanoma cancer. While the specific vaccine may be new, the technology behind it really is not.

What really baffles me is multifaceted. First, somehow a medical emergency became a political issue. And both sides are to blame. A preface to my second point, I voted for Trump in 2016, I did a write in this year because I just couldn’t support Trump. But second, Operation Warp speed was a Trump initiative. And to his credit (as he has so oft reminded us) he got it done. Yet for some reason the people most opposed to the vaccine are Trump supporters??? So, Trump pushed for a vaccine, lobbied the FDA to approve it, even before it went through its full trial, delivered a viable vaccine, and it’s his supporters who are questioning it??? WTF????? I mean really... WTF??? You have to be a special sort of stupid to be so diametrically opposed to something that was driven and delivered by your savior.

as far as the “experts.” COVID is a novel virus. There are no experts. The experts are medical professionals who have dedicated their life work to medicine and they are giving us their best knowledge and advice based on what they know of infections and disease. You can question Fauci all you want for political reasons. But go talk to real nurses, real doctors, and ask their opinions. They will unequivocally say that this virus is serious and needs to be treated as such. Go ask the front line people who are risking everything with nothing to gain. This is real. It’s not the plague, but aits very real and needs to be treated as such.

I‘m truly baffled. What kind of work do you do and for how long have you been doing it? I’ve been in my industry for going on 15 years. I consider myself an expert and a professional. Do you consider yourself the same in your industry? What would you think if someone came into your office or workplace on Monday and said they read ”an article” (most likely from an obscure news site posted to social media) that said you‘re wrong and don’t know what you’re talking about. At first you would probably laugh, but then as it perpetuates you get frustrated and then angry. I’m guessing there are a lot of doctors and researchers out there feeling the same way. A bunch of know it all’s, who really know nothing at all, perpetuating a bunch of nonsense drowning out the people who know better.
 

GBRforLife1

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Because nobody knows our immunity. It could be 90 days, it could be 9 months, it could be lifetime. But ultimately nobody knows. For all I know I may have to get a booster annually. Or I could already be immune. But who knows, that’s why it’s called a NOVEL virus... it’s never been seen before So we just don’t know. We’re just making the best decisions with what information we have. I would seriously question anyone claiming otherwise.

Well if it's 90 days that yearly booster shot isn't going to help you

As for the vaccine... First coronavirus is not new. Coronaviruses have been around since the dawn of mankind. They have been studied for decades, if not centuries. While this particular coronavirus may be new, the very fact that it is a coronavirus suggests that it shares certain genetic similarities to other coronaviruses. We already have vaccines for certain coronaviruses for animals. I don’t think it’s a difficult leap of logic to think that if we have animal vaccines for coronavirus and if we have a basic understanding of the genetic makeup of coronaviruses that we could adapt something for humans in a relatively short period of time.

Didn't you just get done telling us it's "never been seen before?"

What is the acceptable death or disablement rate for animals due to vaccines? How about humans?

What really baffles me is multifaceted. First, somehow a medical emergency became a political issue. And both sides are to blame. A preface to my second point, I voted for Trump in 2016, I did a write in this year because I just couldn’t support Trump. But second, Operation Warp speed was a Trump initiative. And to his credit (as he has so oft reminded us) he got it done. Yet for some reason the people most opposed to the vaccine are Trump supporters??? So, Trump pushed for a vaccine, lobbied the FDA to approve it, even before it went through its full trial, delivered a viable vaccine, and it’s his supporters who are questioning it??? WTF????? I mean really... WTF??? You have to be a special sort of stupid to be so diametrically opposed to something that was driven and delivered by your savior.

Everyone should question the vaccine. An honest and open debate of the risks and benefits should be welcomed by all. Why wouldn't you want that?

How did it become a political issue indeed?


"Historically, the committee relied on scientific evidence to inform its decisions. But now the members are weighing social justice concerns as well, noted Lisa A. Prosser, a professor of health policy and decision sciences at the University of Michigan." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-first.html


as far as the “experts.” COVID is a novel virus. There are no experts. The experts are medical professionals who have dedicated their life work to medicine and they are giving us their best knowledge and advice based on what they know of infections and disease. You can question Fauci all you want for political reasons. But go talk to real nurses, real doctors, and ask their opinions. They will unequivocally say that this virus is serious and needs to be treated as such. Go ask the front line people who are risking everything with nothing to gain. This is real. It’s not the plague, but aits very real and needs to be treated as such.

These "experts" have thrown away years of medical practice at a whim. That should be your first clue. Anyone who suggests asking nurses, who are dancing around like clowns in the most high profile videos coming from hospitals deserves what they get.

The virus is real, the narrative is not.

I‘m truly baffled. What kind of work do you do and for how long have you been doing it? I’ve been in my industry for going on 15 years. I consider myself an expert and a professional. Do you consider yourself the same in your industry? What would you think if someone came into your office or workplace on Monday and said they read ”an article” (most likely from an obscure news site posted to social media) that said you‘re wrong and don’t know what you’re talking about. At first you would probably laugh, but then as it perpetuates you get frustrated and then angry. I’m guessing there are a lot of doctors and researchers out there feeling the same way. A bunch of know it all’s, who really know nothing at all, perpetuating a bunch of nonsense drowning out the people who know better.

There is a really simple way the doctors could alleviate a lot of this garbage. They could start being honest.

You act like there aren't loads of doctors out there calling this out for the fraud that it is. It's theater. These people say one thing one day, and then another the next with no change in data - no reason to change their stance. That should upset you. You should want to hold them accountable. The vast majority of these "studies" have not been very complex, but you act like it's some gospel that can't be questioned. We should question everything until we have solid answers.

 

Mack In Motion

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The early experiment if putting covid patients in nursing homes was a disaster.

Anyone who thought that was a good idea had to be mentally defective in some capacity. Seriously.

From the onset of this thing, it was apparent that it was not killing young people but it was definitely killing elderly people.

Sending people infected with this thing to nursing homes is like locking up wild foxes in your henhouse overnight, then being surprised in the morning when you discover the results.
 

RedCap

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Is it reasonable to assume you don't wear masks, because of the whole lack of scientific proof thing?
No I wear a mask all the time.

It's certainly more than OK to use logic as your guide, it's just not OK IMO to confuse reasoned logic with actual scientific proof. People don't seem to understand that distinction. That's the point.

Not everything can be proven scientifically either immediately (as currently is the case with Covid-19) OR in some cases ever. That never means we shouldn't act logically. That's what you should do in the absence of true scientific evidence.
 
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dinglefritz

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I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that getting exposed to it naturally is a better way of building immunity than from vaccination. And after either one, the worst thing you can do is to not allow yourself to continue being exposed to it. Stop wearing a mask, period. You WANT your body to keep getting exposed to it as often as possible.
No. Getting VACCINATED and THEN getting exposed to it is the best way to build immunity. We need to get as many people as possible vaccinated as soon as possible then get rid of the f'n masks. That way IF a genetic mutation occurs in the virus which changes it enough to cause some issues, we have natural immunity being built to that new virus every single minute of every single day. I'm afraid IF we continue the masks and social distancing for too long our natural immunity to all kinds of respiratory viruses is going to wain causing all kinds of other illnesses down the road.

Getting the vaccine is at least 5000X less risky than getting the actual virus for anybody over their early 20s. Get the vaccine then go live life to its fullest.
 
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dinglefritz

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Anyone who thought that was a good idea had to be mentally defective in some capacity. Seriously.

From the onset of this thing, it was apparent that it was not killing young people but it was definitely killing elderly people.

Sending people infected with this thing to nursing homes is like locking up wild foxes in your henhouse overnight, then being surprised in the morning when you discover the results.
It's pretty obvious that Cuomo is practicing gerontricide. That is the only plausible explanation for the policies he's single handedly implemented from the start of this deal. Refusing to let left over doses go to elderly people instead of throwing them in the garbage is just reprehensible. He's a criminal.
 

bingo65

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I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that getting exposed to it naturally is a better way of building immunity than from vaccination. And after either one, the worst thing you can do is to not allow yourself to continue being exposed to it. Stop wearing a mask, period. You WANT your body to keep getting exposed to it as often as possible.
LOL you do know there are viruses that cause more severe complications including death the more you are exposed to them right? I'm not saying covid is one of them but we do not know all the answers yet.
you sound like someone who thinks they know everything but really dont have a clue what they are talking about
 

RedMyMind

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Anyone who thought that was a good idea had to be mentally defective in some capacity. Seriously.

From the onset of this thing, it was apparent that it was not killing young people but it was definitely killing elderly people.

Sending people infected with this thing to nursing homes is like locking up wild foxes in your henhouse overnight, then being surprised in the morning when you discover the results.
extreme ignorance or possibly something more heinous.
Q55Bg2zipOT_JNWipScC_gioC3Qe2bI5ZGmEBgfGF_8.png
 

bingo65

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Well if it's 90 days that yearly booster shot isn't going to help you



Didn't you just get done telling us it's "never been seen before?"

What is the acceptable death or disablement rate for animals due to vaccines? How about humans?



Everyone should question the vaccine. An honest and open debate of the risks and benefits should be welcomed by all. Why wouldn't you want that?

How did it become a political issue indeed?



"Historically, the committee relied on scientific evidence to inform its decisions. But now the members are weighing social justice concerns as well, noted Lisa A. Prosser, a professor of health policy and decision sciences at the University of Michigan." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-first.html





These "experts" have thrown away years of medical practice at a whim. That should be your first clue. Anyone who suggests asking nurses, who are dancing around like clowns in the most high profile videos coming from hospitals deserves what they get.

The virus is real, the narrative is not.



There is a really simple way the doctors could alleviate a lot of this garbage. They could start being honest.

You act like there aren't loads of doctors out there calling this out for the fraud that it is. It's theater. These people say one thing one day, and then another the next with no change in data - no reason to change their stance. That should upset you. You should want to hold them accountable. The vast majority of these "studies" have not been very complex, but you act like it's some gospel that can't be questioned. We should question everything until we have solid answers.




99.9 % of doctors agree on most of this stuff. you searched and found a handful that have different opinions. i can assure you that covid is more uniformly agreed upon by medical professionals than almost any medical topic you can think of. i'll go even farther and say there may not be another topic in all of public discourse that has this amount of agreement. You have to remember that most topics have a lot of varying opinions. compared to the average debate, Covid is almost a slam dunk in agreement.
apparently you aren't very astute about these things. I can find thousands of people who believe the earth is flat.
it doesn't mean they are right and it doesn't mean it is even debatable. the world is full of ignorance. a handful of them sound smart but are not
i bet there are 1000x the number of people who think the earth is flat than disagree with the doctors on covid.
 

dinglefritz

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I was told today that you can get the rona every 3 months. Who the heck knows 😏
Extremely rare but for those people on for instance on steroid inhalers or having some other pre-existing pulmonary disease that appears to be a little more likely. I'm HOPING that I get vaccinated and THEN get exposed at least every 3 months. That's the ideal situation to prevent getting seriously ill from it. I'm going to be licking the rim of every dirty drink glass at any bar I go to once I'm vaccinated. Eek People who work in close contact with the public will probably never have to worry about getting sick from this again once they're either vaccinated or infected once.
 
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kerpal_68

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Frustrating how slow the process is in Nebraska and the distribution ratio to states is not balanced to population. I have several 65-70 year old cousins in Colorado without underlying health concerns received the vaccine 10 days ago and MIL in Holdrege nursing home just got her first shot this week. My 93 year old father still at home is “on the list” but yet to get a shot by Two Rivers Health Dept or even hear a timetable.

The sad part is that it is reported only half of the vaccine the state has received has found an arm. Unacceptable IMO. If this is so urgent where is the sense of urgency by these local health departments?

After dealing with the health district when my wife had covid just to get my kid back to school, I can understand why the state is struggling to get the vaccine out. I've never been in contact with a more unorganized group.
 

dinglefritz

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After dealing with the health district when my wife had covid just to get my kid back to school, I can understand why the state is struggling to get the vaccine out. I've never been in contact with a more unorganized group.
THIS X 1000. You should have to deal with the state of Florida for a family member. Goodness gracious there are some incredibly stupid people working in state agencies who can't speak intelligibly. Amazing incompetence in state government bureaucracy. Never fear though, soon they'll be in COMPLETE control of our health care systems. Yikes.
 
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