Once again friends I plead with you

jbskers

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LOL. What scientific data do you have that the vaccine is harming humans to the extent that there should be a major concern? Even the Donald got vaccinated.

There's plenty to verify that non-vaccinated are still spreading the disease that Im sure you don't believe is of any real concern.
how do you explain so many people testing positive after getting vaccinated and still getting actual covid? I'm not going to die by covid, that I'm betting my life on. More likely to die from a liberal starting a shooting spree in a public area
 

damcde

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Doc,

Where's the breakdown of "Deaths from covid" vs "Deaths WITH covid"? Looking at aggregate numbers like this hides the details that matter.

Not really. This infatuation that just because someone has comorbidities with COVID means that they didn’t die due to COVID is dumb. It is pretty well known that with respiratory infections that you get other things to go wrong. It is almost like your lungs are important for other bodily functions. It also is pretty well know that respiratory viruses can induce heart problems. People with influenza are 6x more likely to have a heart attack than those that don’t have influenza. Although not as much, but RSV does the same. Because your heart has to work harder to try and keep up with the oxygen requirement your body needs to survive.
 

kidofSN

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22,000 flu deaths in the 2020 flu season. That is a few more than none!
 

Redblooded

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how do you explain so many people testing positive after getting vaccinated and still getting actual covid? I'm not going to die by covid, that I'm betting my life on. More likely to die from a liberal starting a shooting spree in a public area
Your betting your life, your families life and your friends and coworkers lives, Sounds selfish to me.
 

jbskers

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I can not believe all the false information spread about the vaccines in social media and on this board.
why not? Hell, you all fell for hoaxes for 4yrs , bet you even believed Obama when he said you can keep your doctor too
 

jbskers

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Your betting your life, your families life and your friends and coworkers lives, Sounds selfish to me.
if you believe the bullshit you preach your vaccine will save you from me...... take your sjw shit somewhere else
 

Oldschool1964

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Not really. This infatuation that just because someone has comorbidities with COVID means that they didn’t die due to COVID is dumb. It is pretty well known that with respiratory infections that you get other things to go wrong. It is almost like your lungs are important for other bodily functions. It also is pretty well know that respiratory viruses can induce heart problems. People with influenza are 6x more likely to have a heart attack than those that don’t have influenza. Although not as much, but RSV does the same. Because your heart has to work harder to try and keep up with the oxygen requirement your body needs to survive.
I'm talking about deaths from heavy metal that happen to have covid when they died are lumped into these statistics. For kids, it could be deaths from falls, car accidents, poisoning, etc that coroners suspect had covid or tested positive for covid post-mortem.

 
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damcde

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the virus is in the air too, does that make air the cause? Come on man, wtf up

What are you talking about? Most of the spread is likely droplet-bourne. Even so, “airborne” respiratory viruses are still in droplets. They are just in droplets smaller than 5 microns (5 is the standard cutoff but sometimes 1 is used). They are called airborne because they are more likely to stay in the air for longer and/or travel further in the air vs. “droplet” spread.
 

Jhollenbeck41

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why 15 months later are people still arguing about this stuff? We're never going to agree, move on.
 

mikecanale

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I 100% agree with the vaccinations thing you mention. We need as many adults vaccinated as possible. The majority of the Covid deaths recently are in urban areas and urban counties. It's not rural people dying off. You can find this using the NY Times deaths by county. I just wanted to mention it's a myth that it's the Trumpers who are mostly dying here through non-vaccinations. It is also a problem in urban areas and actually more of a problem as Covid spreads easier there.
What makes you think there are no Trumpers in urban counties?
 
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damcde

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I'm talking about deaths from heavy metal that happen to have covid when they died are lumped into these statistics. For kids, it could be deaths from falls, car accidents, poisoning, etc that coroners suspect had covid or tested positive for covid post-mortem.


So because this happened, they all were wrong right? Counting deaths for COVID wasn’t perfect (it never will be), but comparing the CDCs numbers and the numbers of excess deaths suggests that they did a pretty good job. Additionally, I could be wrong on this, but I am pretty certain that they typically review deaths certificates for the deaths for confirmation. Which is why there is a several week delay on reporting.
 
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Oldschool1964

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So because this happened, they all were wrong right? Counting deaths for COVID wasn’t perfect (it never will be), but comparing the CDCs numbers and the numbers of excess deaths suggests that they did a pretty good job. Additionally, I could be wrong on this, but I am pretty certain that they typically review deaths certificates for the deaths for confirmation. Which is why there is a several week delay on reporting.
Deaths from other reasons could be up because of the lockdown. If they count those as covid deaths, you would still see the same increase in excess deaths...maybe not totally attributed to it, but we don't have the statistics to see these types of nuances because these statistics hide the details.

 

kidofSN

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The actual number of global COVID-19 deaths may be about 6.9 million, more than double the recorded amount, according to a study from the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Valuation published May 6.

As of May 6, there were more than 3.24 million reported COVID-19 deaths worldwide, according to data from Baltimore-based Johns Hopkins COVID-19 Resource Center.

The study suggests that by May 3, the actual number of deaths was 6.93 million. Estimates show the U.S. has had 905,289 COVID-19 deaths, the highest of nearly every country. The CDC recorded 575,491 coronavirus deaths in the U.S. as of May 5.

After the U.S., India, Mexico and Brazil had the highest number of unreported deaths, according to the report.

In many countries, deaths were likely unreported because only deaths that occur in hospitals or in patients with a confirmed case are recorded, the report said. Additionally, deaths in high-income countries, particularly among older individuals in long-term care facilities were likely undercounted in the early stages of the pandemic.
 
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damcde

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Deaths from other reasons could be up because of the lockdown. If they count those as covid deaths, you would still see the same increase in excess deaths...maybe not totally attributed to it, but we don't have the statistics to see these types of nuances because these statistics hide the details.


Your article lays out the different causes of death. Suicides were actually lower, which as your article points out was not expected. What are these other deaths that count as Covid you are talking about?
 

Oldschool1964

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Your article lays out the different causes of death. Suicides were actually lower, which as your article points out was not expected. What are these other deaths that count as Covid you are talking about?
Overdoses were up, meaning if someone OD's and has covid, it's counted as a covid death even though covid wasn't the reason for their death.
 

damcde

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22,000 flu deaths in the 2020 flu season. That is a few more than none!

To be fair, most of those deaths were in beginning part of the year, before COVID hit. The restart the flu reporting in September every years so the 22K is for Sept 2019 until Aug 2020z

We won’t see the overall deaths report until likely November this year for the 2020-21 season, but the number of hospitalizations and pediatric mortalities were way way down compared to most years. Although as you said, more than none.
 
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Oldschool1964

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So you are telling me that the 500K excess deaths in 2020 were due to drug overdoses? Come one man, I know you are smarter than this.
I said "not all", but we don't know how many of the increased deaths were from covid vs other reasons.

I also have a problem with the argument that people didn't wear their masks and that's why Covid numbers were so high in the US, but people wore their masks so well that our influenza numbers were nonexistent. Yes, both of those were arguments listed in the media AND right here on TOS.
 

scopeandtime

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you are a bigger moron, masks don't work, they didn't work ever.........virus's are 25x smaller than a mask can filter
you literally fall for everything these clowns tell you. It's called science. There is NOT 1 peer reviewed study showing masks work. Even your god Fauci in his private emails said they don't work. WTF up
These Boomers, man...
 

Bobfather

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Feels like we need an @Bobfather hot take to fully round out this thread.
Why as it your body your choice am I right. Trump got the vaccine so I am not scared of it or needles as I took allergy shots when I was young every week. Now if you want vaccinated do it and if you don't Covid isn't the Black Plague or Small Pox......
 
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damcde

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I said "not all", but we don't know how many of the increased deaths were from covid vs other reasons.

I also have a problem with the argument that people didn't wear their masks and that's why Covid numbers were so high in the US, but people wore their masks so well that our influenza numbers were nonexistent. Yes, both of those were arguments listed in the media AND right here on TOS.

Think of it like a vaccine. Each pathogen has a percentage the population needs be immune in order to reach herd immunity, based on their infectivity. Measles and Whooping cough are close to 95 percent, whereas polio, which is not as infectious, requires about 80 percent. COVID is about 70 percent estimated, although the new variant being more infectious may change that.

So compared to influenza, COVID is more infectious. So you can have enough masks to stop Influenza, but not enough to completely stop COVID.
 

Huskermatt23

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COVID infections are up 10% in the country, mostly in pockets of the country that have not been vaccinated. These deaths from the Delta variant are totally preventable by just getting the vaccine. The vaccine is readily available. There is no reason for these deaths. Please please take the vaccine. No reason for us to lose more friends and family.
I actually don't care anymore, if people are that special that they don't want to believe in the vaccine and get one by now, then its gods will if they are taken from this planet. In most cases, they are Trumpers anyway so one less moron for me to have to deal with. In how divided our country is, it only takes a few hundred votes to turn an election, so let them opt out. Their death is for the betterment of our nation.
 

Redblooded

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if you believe the bullshit you preach your vaccine will save you from me...... take your sjw shit somewhere els
I hope you stay healthy. The old COVID was bad enough when I had it, but this Delta variant is really bad stuff.
 

Cash68847

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With this new Delta variant more people are dead and it spreads so easy and it is preventable. It makes no sense unless there is a medical reason. It is like suicide.
Where is the proof it’s more deadly in America? Typically a mutation that spreads more easily isn’t more deadly. It’s usually the other way around.
 

biscuitbagger3

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What are you talking about? Most of the spread is likely droplet-bourne. Even so, “airborne” respiratory viruses are still in droplets. They are just in droplets smaller than 5 microns (5 is the standard cutoff but sometimes 1 is used). They are called airborne because they are more likely to stay in the air for longer and/or travel further in the air vs. “droplet” spread.
@jbskers apparently thinks viruses fly around like birds. Guy literally is dunning-kruger effect in action.
 
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biscuitbagger3

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You’re one of them with your anti vaxxer talk. Just because someone doesn’t want the covid vacccine doesn’t make them an anti vaxxer.
What does it make them? You can split hairs all you want…it makes them irrational which is one in the same.
 

Cash68847

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What does it make them? You can split hairs all you want…it makes them irrational which is one in the same.
Ive got multiple flu shots and all of my vaccines throughout the years and my kids have got all of their vaccines and I have not got the covid vaccine and I won’t give it to my kids, so what does that make me? I’m definitely not anti vaxxer. To be fair we all had covid. Even if my kids wouldn’t have had covid there is no way I would vaccinate them at this point when the chances are near zero they will end up in the hospital and die. I might be open to the vaccine down the road.
 
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