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Old School Nebraska/New School Wisconsin

Jhollenbeck41

Graduate Assistant
Nov 29, 2018
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Just wanted to have fun with this one as I'm always interested with X's and O'x on offense and scheming. Hypothetically if Frost just said f*ck it one day, and went back to what was proven to work at Nebraska, being Tom's offense, scheme, and Husker Power in general. Do people think we'd do better than Wisconsin given that everyone gives it enough time to fully develop as everyone learning the playbook, recruiting the right guys, time in the weight room and at the training table, etc.? I personally do. Not saying it will happen, I'm just curious.
 
yes, it would work, and someday it will, after we figure out we are not going to recruit stabler, mark bavario, and steve largent. we just have to stop dreaming and face reality.
 
Wisconsin runs a pro style offense, in fact when Mike Riley was the head coach here we ran basically the exact same offense that they do. His protege Paul Chryst calls a lot of stuff the exact same thing MR did.
 
Just wanted to have fun with this one as I'm always interested with X's and O'x on offense and scheming. Hypothetically if Frost just said f*ck it one day, and went back to what was proven to work at Nebraska, being Tom's offense, scheme, and Husker Power in general. Do people think we'd do better than Wisconsin given that everyone gives it enough time to fully develop as everyone learning the playbook, recruiting the right guys, time in the weight room and at the training table, etc.? I personally do. Not saying it will happen, I'm just curious.

Every human alive today will be dead before "New School Wisconsin" wins a national title.
 
Wisconsin runs a pro style offense, in fact when Mike Riley was the head coach here we ran basically the exact same offense that they do. His protege Paul Chryst calls a lot of stuff the exact same thing MR did.

they are similar. Wisconsin goes to much heavier sets more often. And Wisconsin was much more run heavy and Riley was a pro style, single back and much more of a passing lead offense
 
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I wish we went back under Center and recruited a Lamar Jackson (Pro) type to run the offense. And mixed in a little pistol and double TE shotgun.
 
Just wanted to have fun with this one as I'm always interested with X's and O'x on offense and scheming. Hypothetically if Frost just said f*ck it one day, and went back to what was proven to work at Nebraska, being Tom's offense, scheme, and Husker Power in general. Do people think we'd do better than Wisconsin given that everyone gives it enough time to fully develop as everyone learning the playbook, recruiting the right guys, time in the weight room and at the training table, etc.? I personally do. Not saying it will happen, I'm just curious.

The Frost offense works. We just had a true freshman walk onto campus and he has 700 yards. The problem is our offensive personal is offensive. AM is a good qb who is shook because he doesn't trust anybody. And now we know why. With Wandale, a heathy Mo, and JD we have enough firepower to score points, but just barely. If any of those three are slowed we will struggle because we can't pass protect and we can't run in between the tackles..this has nothing to do with the offense but personnel. If you think about it...the fact we have a 700 yard game without an inside running game, nor pass protection, is a true testament to the offense. BUt that was the last game that Mills, JD, Mo, and Wandale could all contribute.
 
Just wanted to have fun with this one as I'm always interested with X's and O'x on offense and scheming. Hypothetically if Frost just said f*ck it one day, and went back to what was proven to work at Nebraska, being Tom's offense, scheme, and Husker Power in general. Do people think we'd do better than Wisconsin given that everyone gives it enough time to fully develop as everyone learning the playbook, recruiting the right guys, time in the weight room and at the training table, etc.? I personally do. Not saying it will happen, I'm just curious.

So like 7-15 years for 9-10 wins?
 
I wish we went back under Center and recruited a Lamar Jackson (Pro) type to run the offense. And mixed in a little pistol and double TE shotgun.

We did recruit Lamar Jackson. A T offense is almost unusual again.
 
I don't think this was entirely a bad post, because its at least trying to understand why we suck.

1.) Wisconsin borrowed some of Nebraska's best concepts to build a successful program. There was a really good article about this a few years back when Russell Wilson was shredding it up with them on ESPN called "Children of the Corn," about how Barry Alvarez basically just took everything he could from Nebraska's system and built it in Madison. They don't run the option, but they do feed their linemen steak, corn, and steroids.

2.) Frost's offense works, but I agree with the above post, it requires speed and it requires a multitude of ways to attack. You have to be extremely flexible and your players need to be both talented and very athletic. We just don't have much in terms of depth in our offensive weapons right now, which is why the offense seems to be very one-dimensional at times.

3.) That big ass offensive linemen from the glory days, Zatechka, was on a radio program breaking down why Nebraska is struggling right now, and I think he really nailed it:

a.) Lack of a speedy deep ball threat. When you don't have that, defenses can play closer in and F up everything you are trying to do. We don't have a big, tall, fast wide receiver to run out there and threaten a 30+ yard pass right now. That player just does not exist on our roster.

b.) Martinez is playing like he is confused and jumpy, because he doesn't have a ton of options and they may have given him too much playbook too quickly. At this point it would honestly be better to just let him cut loose and do whatever comes naturally.

c.) The offensive line is garbage. They are keeping some guys out there, like Jurgens, basically because they are deciding (the coaches) that we're gonna be very good...in a year and a half. Might as well let all the youngin's play now and get them some experience and some bruises while we suck, so we can really build for next year and the year after.

I think he basically nailed it.
 
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I don't think this was entirely a bad post, because its at least trying to understand why we suck.

1.) Wisconsin borrowed some of Nebraska's best concepts to build a successful program. There was a really good article about this a few years back when Russell Wilson was shredding it up with them on ESPN called "Children of the Corn," about how Barry Alvarez basically just took everything he could from Nebraska's system and built it in Madison. They don't run the option, but they do feed their linemen steak, corn, and steroids.

2.) Frost's offense works, but I agree with the above post, it requires speed and it requires a multitude of ways to attack. You have to be extremely flexible and your players need to be both talented and very athletic. We just don't have much in terms of depth in our offensive weapons right now, which is why the offense seems to be very one-dimensional at times.

3.) That big ass offensive linemen from the glory days, Zatechka, was on a radio program breaking down why Nebraska is struggling right now, and I think he really nailed it:

a.) Lack of a speedy deep ball threat. When you don't have that, defenses can play closer in and F up everything you are trying to do. We don't have a big, tall, fast wide receiver to run out there and threaten a 30+ yard pass right now. That player just does not exist on our roster.

b.) Martinez is playing like he is confused and jumpy, because he doesn't have a ton of options and they may have given him too much playbook too quickly. At this point it would honestly be better to just let him cut loose and do whatever comes naturally.

c.) The offensive line is garbage. They are keeping some guys out there, like Jurgens, basically because they are deciding (the coaches) that we're gonna be very good...in a year and a half. Might as well let all the youngin's play now and get them some experience and some bruises while we suck, so we can really build for next year and the year after.

I think he basically nailed it.
I can't remember at what part of the season it was but I was watching a game with my cousin and my uncle, and we just trying to figure out what was going on with Martinez. And my opinion at the time, and really still now, is that last year he was really just relying on his athletic abilities to play superman and do it by himself, because obviously he wouldn't have known entirely too much about every concept and why Frost was calling certain things in the playbook, he was just playing. This year, it really feels like they gave him a boat load of the playbook over the off season and he's trying to be perfect and really trying to "run the offense" instead of just being the athletic QB that he is.
 
I can't remember at what part of the season it was but I was watching a game with my cousin and my uncle, and we just trying to figure out what was going on with Martinez. And my opinion at the time, and really still now, is that last year he was really just relying on his athletic abilities to play superman and do it by himself, because obviously he wouldn't have known entirely too much about every concept and why Frost was calling certain things in the playbook, he was just playing. This year, it really feels like they gave him a boat load of the playbook over the off season and he's trying to be perfect and really trying to "run the offense" instead of just being the athletic QB that he is.
Last year he had all-conference WR who was often double covered against poor opponents. We had HJd in the slot against man coverage. We had an all-conference running back to hand the ball to...teams could not play zone because we would have shredded them with the run game. This year teams can stop the run with 4 lineman...they can drop 7...that means that not only is AM throwing to 3 receivers covered by 7 but he is also running against 7 defenders in coverage...last year he was throwing into man or 2 deep zone only. It all stems from a really bad offensive line and really poor running back play that started in game one and has continued unabated.
 
Last year he had all-conference WR who was often double covered against poor opponents. We had HJd in the slot against man coverage. We had an all-conference running back to hand the ball to...teams could not play zone because we would have shredded them with the run game. This year teams can stop the run with 4 lineman...they can drop 7...that means that not only is AM throwing to 3 receivers covered by 7 but he is also running against 7 defenders in coverage...last year he was throwing into man or 2 deep zone only. It all stems from a really bad offensive line and really poor running back play that started in game one and has continued unabated.
Mindblowing as to why we have stud RB and O-Line recruits getting here in January and being developed now. Weird how that works out.
 
The Frost offense works. We just had a true freshman walk onto campus and he has 700 yards. The problem is our offensive personal is offensive. AM is a good qb who is shook because he doesn't trust anybody. And now we know why. With Wandale, a heathy Mo, and JD we have enough firepower to score points, but just barely. If any of those three are slowed we will struggle because we can't pass protect and we can't run in between the tackles..this has nothing to do with the offense but personnel. If you think about it...the fact we have a 700 yard game without an inside running game, nor pass protection, is a true testament to the offense. BUt that was the last game that Mills, JD, Mo, and Wandale could all contribute.

Damn fine post sir. Very interesting that is 1/2 good news & 1/2 bad news. Yep, we've got some superb skill players and that's great! But our big uglies are at best marginal (if even that). WRs that can't block, run correct routes or catch passes, the nations worst kicking/punting game, etc, etc.

Oh boy, even with the big money I don't know if I would want to be in HCSF's shoes. He better round up his magic wand.
 
I really hope all the apologists are correct. I’m having trouble differentiating between poorly coached team and having a talent depleted roster. Even when we were healthy we didn’t look great other than a home night game against a bad NIU team.

Honestly, I think it’s both. And now it’s exaggerated with the injuries.

This team fails to execute and at some point the coaches are accountable. I rarely have seen them appear prepared. And I’m having trouble seeing any difference in this team and the past 10 years of teams, hell they may be worse.

now, I believe in Frost. So don’t go there. And I believe I could be completely wrong. But I’m giving my unbiased insight.

and unbiased outlook: we are a bad team that is poorly coached
 
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I really hope all the apologists are correct. I’m having trouble differentiating between poorly coached team and having a talent depleted roster. Even when we were healthy we didn’t look great other than a home night game against a bad NIU team.

Honestly, I think it’s both. And now it’s exaggerated with the injuries.

This team fails to execute and at some point the coaches are accountable. I rarely have seen them appear prepared. And I’m having trouble seeing any difference in this team and the past 10 years of teams, hell they may be worse.

now, I believe in Frost. So don’t go there. And I believe I could be completely wrong. But I’m giving my unbiased insight.

and unbiased outlook: we are a bad team that is poorly coached

Extremely well stated sir......really!! I too am lost in the ozone....."something" is terribly wrong. No way our OLine should be "that" bad...we're in year two now and shouldn't be wayyyyyy worse. The defense being just slightly better than last year is the one & only good thing we have. Everything else is bad to horrible.

For sure we are a bad team. Poorly coached? I don't know......I just don't know.
 
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Just wanted to have fun with this one as I'm always interested with X's and O'x on offense and scheming. Hypothetically if Frost just said f*ck it one day, and went back to what was proven to work at Nebraska, being Tom's offense, scheme, and Husker Power in general. Do people think we'd do better than Wisconsin given that everyone gives it enough time to fully develop as everyone learning the playbook, recruiting the right guys, time in the weight room and at the training table, etc.? I personally do. Not saying it will happen, I'm just curious.

See, this is where things break down. It’s like a person who watches someone build a house and thinks, that looks easy, I can do that. It ends in disaster and they swear they did everything exactly like the other guy.

Ask yourself how many schools tried to copy the Huskers but never were able to get it done. One can do all the external and apparent efforts, i.e. weights, nutrition, scheme, etc but you can’t replicate the individual position coaching and most of all you can not replicate the eyes and analytic mind of the head coach. Some coaches have the innate ability to see every detail and put it all together. They show ability early on, they need the right stage and the other supports to finally expose all their abilities. In the case of these coaches who start slowly and then are successful may have started to done better for a number of reasons including administration support along with an upgrade in players. You also have to look at the coaches who did well immediately, didn’t Stoops win early with someone else’s recruits.

Personally, I have done consulting and often called in to expose problems in an organization. I was amazed at how many places could not see the most obvious problems even when confronted with them.

I submit and have said this often on this board that coach Osborne was a one of a kind coach that comes along very rarely. You simply cannot duplicate what is in his mind or even learn it. He simply had what others will never have. Replicate the process all you want, I even believe you could have all the same players and coaches and you wouldn't do as well by a wide margin. Jmho
 
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See, this is where things break down. It’s like a person who watches someone build a house and thinks, that looks easy, I can do that. It ends in disaster and they swear they did everything exactly like the other guy.

Ask yourself how many schools tried to copy the Huskers but never were able to get it done. One can do all the external and apparent efforts, i.e. weights, nutrition, scheme, etc but you can’t replicate the individual position coaching and most of all you can not replicate the eyes and analytic mind of the head coach. Some coaches have the innate ability to see every detail and put it all together. They show ability early on, they need the right stage and the other supports to finally expose all their abilities. In the case of these coaches who start slowly and then are successful may have started to done better for a number of reasons including administration support along with an upgrade in players. You also have to look at the coaches who did well immediately, didn’t Stoops win early with someone else’s recruits.

Personally, I have done consulting and often called in to expose problems in an organization. I was amazed at how many places could not see the most obvious problems even when confronted with them.

I submit and have said this often on this board that coach Osborne was a one of a kind coach that comes along very rarely. You simply cannot duplicate what is in his mind or even learn it. He simply had what others will never have. Replicate the process all you want, I even believe you could have all the same players and coaches and you would do as well by a wide margin. Jmho
Fair enough.
 
Extremely well stated sir......really!! I too am lost in the ozone....."something" is terribly wrong. No way our OLine should be "that" bad...we're in year two now and shouldn't be wayyyyyy worse. The defense being just slightly better than last year is the one & only good thing we have. Everything else is bad to horrible.

For sure we are a bad team. Poorly coached? I don't know......I just don't know.

I don’t either. I can’t tell and I don’t have enough of a sample. But got dam is it hard when our team shows up like it does. I fully believe our coach wants nothing more in life than to be the next Coach Osborne. That’s good enough for me. But does he truly believe that and does he have what it takes???! That we will find out
 
I really hope all the apologists are correct. I’m having trouble differentiating between poorly coached team and having a talent depleted roster. Even when we were healthy we didn’t look great other than a home night game against a bad NIU team.

Honestly, I think it’s both. And now it’s exaggerated with the injuries.

This team fails to execute and at some point the coaches are accountable. I rarely have seen them appear prepared. And I’m having trouble seeing any difference in this team and the past 10 years of teams, hell they may be worse.

now, I believe in Frost. So don’t go there. And I believe I could be completely wrong. But I’m giving my unbiased insight.

and unbiased outlook: we are a bad team that is poorly coached

Sometimes coaches make the choice to do things that do not match their talent. Frost has a two deep of olineman from Mike Riley. Riley recruited for different system with different goals for the olineman. Should Frost run a single back, zone blocking scheme with a non-mobile qb under center? It would match his personnel much better at oline at least, but you might kiss goodbye to Wandale next year or the next Wandale in the future. Eventually you have to take your lumps, either in year 1-3 or 3-6, whenever you decide to make the transition. If you wait longer your recruiting will not match your offense later in your career, or you can do it early and it looks awful. Early is better if your petulant fan base can keep their pitchforks under lock and key.
 
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Sometimes coaches make the choice to do things that do not match their talent. Frost has a two deep of olineman from Mike Riley. Riley recruited for different system with different goals for the olineman. Should Frost run a single back, zone blocking scheme with a non-mobile qb under center? It would match his personnel much better at oline at least, but you might kiss goodbye to Wandale next year or the next Wandale in the future. Eventually you have to take your lumps, either in year 1-3 or 3-6, whenever you decide to make the transition. If you wait longer your recruiting will not match your offense later in your career, or you can do it early and it looks awful. Early is better if your petulant fan base can keep their pitchforks under lock and key.

Lol! Yes sir, so very true!
 
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