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Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by HBK4life, Apr 14, 2019.
Pelini inconsistently brought in a few NFL caliber defensive players and amazingly Barney developed some guys in to NFL O linemen. We just didn't recruit much elite talent.
Its stunningly stupid that Morgan was not drafted.
Some people in this thread are trying to sound smart and say "yeah Im not surprised" and "husker fans are idiots" yadda yadda. But thats not true at all.
I dont even think the MR bashing is appropriate as far as breaking the streak goes, (although it would be nice to have more talent.)
The fact is that Stanley Morgan has two 1000 yard years under his belt.
He was decorated by the Big 10 conference.
He is the most productive receiver in Husker history, which isnt saying much but you have to remember we have had other recievers drafted recently.
He has good size and strength by NFL standards and also gives effort blocking.
He was highly regarded as a big play threat and draft worthy player by Pro Football Focus, usually a reliable NFL guide.
He was not only invited to the combine, but did well and definitely didnt do anything poor.
There were receivers with worse athletic measurements than his drafted.
Morgan was without a doubt worthy of a pick in rounds 4-7. Im stunned and left wondering if theres something off the field or said in the interview room that we dont know.
And this isnt just husker homerism. I have been surprised with other huskers being drafted in the past.
Devine not being drafted is more believeable than Morgan, yet still a bummer and a mild surprise.
I have heard from friends of his that Ozigbo was told by a few teams that "if you are still there in round _, we are probably going to take you." He liked his chances, but Im also sure they say that a lot.
I didnt realize just how deep this RB draft was until it unfolded. Teams were picking up some very solid RBs late.
I predict this draft will prove to be one of the most productive classes in recent NFL history, and in the future will be regarded as "part of that historic 2019 class", etc. at the following positions:
OL, DL, DB, WR, RB, TE.
There was A LOT of value all over the place in this draft. I dont remember this many teams having such solid drafts.
It's a deep state conspiracy.
The reality is every single NFL team passed on him. One would have to say they all know something or don't know anything.
At least we got a good basketball coach in Hoiberg. And a couple of great recruits the last few days. Look at Texas Tech and Auburn. Both football schools. Huskers can be in the Final Four with Hoiberg in a couple of years. Maybe that will bring more attention to the football program too.
Its not a consipiracy. Its stupid.
Or, yes, there has to be something we dont know.
Daniels maybe. Barry late 6 or 7 rounds or free agent. The Davis twins? Unless people are seeing something that I don't, not drafted. Daniels has the best chance depending on his play next year. There is a good chance that we will have no one drafted again next year. It should pick up in 2021.
The Davis twins have been a major disappointment to me. I had visions of them dominating by their junior year, but it hasn't happened.
I’m crossing my fingers we see some Ozigbo Type turn around this season. We will have a very experienced Dline. 4-5 seniors that can more then do some Van Damage.
Here’s ESPN scouting on Stan Morgan Jr...
Morgan Jr. is a versatile receiver with experience lining up on the outside and the inside. He's a natural hands catcher and he's smooth getting in and out of breaks. He tracks the deep ball well and he's got enough speed to stretch the field. He looked like more of a threat after the catch in 2017 than he did in 2018.”
Just a tiny bit different then your view of him.
Revolving door of position coaches, coordinators and schemes is a development killer...Davis twins for instance recruited by Kaz, then position coaches Hughes, Parella, Dawson and now Tuioti in their five years plus 4-3 with Banker for a few years Diaco and the switch to 3-4 and now Chins .
The NFL game is very different than the college game. Most teams are looking for a very different type of "skill" player than what the college game is looking for.
The NFL will 99 out of 100 times draft a player on "potential, upside, or ceiling" than they will on a players on field production. (this is why you get so many busts because they see what could be instead of what is; lets face it a zebra will not change his stripes!)
The NFL combine proves my point. The entire combine is a way for a player to show all the NFL teams "Hey, look at me see how athletic I am. This is how fast, strong, and how high I jump. You could do so much more with me than what my college coach did because you are the NFL!" Your college tape is secondary to what your combine numbers are.
When over three fourths of NFL teams will pass on a starting college left tackle that has only given up one sack in two years because his arms are "3/4 inch too short" is just asinine! (Alabama's starting left tackle was selected in first round but there is a story that asked all NFL GM's about him and 3 out of 4 said he has too short of arms to be a starting LT in the NFL. The dude makes his own spreadsheets on every DE he faces and comes up with algorithms to help know what the player across from him is going to do before they do it)
Fact is Nebraska has been (speaking in very broad & general overview terms) lacking in talent and that is all on Harvey Pearlman, Sean E., Bo P., Mike R., & each of their coaches and trainers, there is plenty of blame to go around.
I look at it different than almost all people. It doesn't bother me what or who goes to the NFL from Nebraska as I care more about what "Nebraska does on the field in college" than the NFL draft.
Most are going to say you can only get kids to come to your program if you can get them into the NFL. Fact is the NFL teams draft a total of 224 or 240 kids. That is what 5% or less of all seniors who play Division I or II football.
The NFL draft is not a "TRUE" representation of your college teams talent because the NFL does not draft on talent alone.
I was reading a scouting report on him. That was the biggest area of concern, the drops. Even when not contested. Im sure most NFL teams are like. If a kids can't hold on to the ball at this point in their career the NFL isn't going to change that.
I though he and zig would go, but I think us and really any base base views their players as better than what maybe they really are. Similar to how we view are kids as better and smarter than others. It is a skewed reality. I think these last 2 years draft results are a true sign of how talent-less this team really was.
Regardless of drafted or not, Oz, Stanley, and Farmer will play in the NFL.
I love OZ in NOLA. I mean I really love Oz in NOLA. He has a real shot of doing something with Mark Ingram gone. Oz could work very well with Kamara
Remember Arian Foster was the best RB in the league for a couple season not too long ago and he too was an undrafted FA. SP has the eye for talent and I think he knows he just got a Caddie for the price of a big wheel
Stanley to cincy at first glance makes you worried a bit. Green and Boyd are two of the best WO in the NFL. But after that, the Bengals have nothing. If Morgan plays like we know he can, he can be the 3rd guy in that offense. That means no double coverages and he’s likely going up against the 3rd best DB on the field. He has major opportunities. Plus Zac Taylor comes from a LaRams offense that spreads the ball around. The days of Marvin Lewis trying to feed AJ the ball a million times a game are over. The brand of football doesn’t work. It’s great for fantasy football if you own Green but awful football. You will see the Red Rocket checking down more in this offense versus locked in to AJ. That 3rd Wr is so important to the Sean Mcvay style of play. If WR #1 goes up against a lock down CB, & #2 gets double covered, then WR 3 is open all day.
I'm surprised Ozigbo didn't go in the late rounds but Morgan not getting drafted doesn't surprise me. I never really understood the hype he got as some elite B1G WR when the on-field play never backed that up.
Speaks to the devaluation of the RB position that Ozigbo didn't go. Just watched a thing on Phillip Lindsay and how he went udfa and now he's starting for Denver. Hardly any RBs go off the board in the early rounds lately.
I don't know if you will ever see guys out up numbers like Sanders, Smith, Dickerson, etc again. Guys just don't get those kind of touches for that many years any more.
Exactly. NFL is looking for talent and upside. Jackson has that in spades but hasnt produced at all. Stanley Jean Baptiste was a 2nd rounder for basically this reason. I dont know if he's ever even started in the NFL. Teams look at him and think wow we can turn him into the next Sherman. They are grasping at straws throwing crap against the wall and see what sticks. Its not about being 1000 yard WR or RB its about helping Billion dollar franchises win games.
I’ll throw this out there and call it ironic if you may, but in 1962 when the last time Nebraska didn’t have a player drafted Mick Tingelhoff comes too mind, he was not drafted out of Nebraska and he ended up playing 17 years in the NFL never missing a game and in 2015 was elected to the NFL hall a fame...
How someone like Tanner Lee gets drafted over a receiver that had 1000 yards his Junior and Senior year is beyond me..But it shows just because you weren’t drafted doesn’t mean your not going to make it in the NFL..Mick proved other wise..
I would bet there is a pretty good correlation between team success in college and the number of nfl draft picks they produce.
Focused on the big ten - OSU has had the most picks in 2019 and 2018
in a 2014 -2017 analysis that awarded points based on which round a player was selected
round 1 - 7 points
round 2 - 6 points ,,etc
OSU ended up with 158 pts .. the next "closest" was 88 points
NFL talent matters just like stars matter ... arguing to the contrary are just attempts to make one feel better about their team who doesn't produce NFL talent or recruit 4 and 5 star players
I'll await the inevitable list of exceptions to the rule that talent doesn't matter
No it doesn’t. If the Governor signs the law, you can go to Iowa to bet on over-under passing yards for Martinez. Husker fans will flock to Iowa this fall.
If Stan were some dynamic playmaker as this scout suggests he would have been picked. Stan is a good player and we have been lucky to have him these past 4 years. But wake up and smell the coffee man, Nebraska's talent is not on par with the rest of the B1G right now. I'm confident Scott can fix that problem but after that evaluation this weekend and this last season it's very clear Nebraska is not measuring up in terms of recruiting and talent development and that should scare the hell out of all of us.
below is the pre draft analysis of the last WR taken in round 7 - some dude from Colorado State that no one has heard of -
Johnson is a smooth route runner who flashes the ability to separate from underneath man coverage, finds pockets in zone looks and keeps working to get open when the initial play breaks down. He has slightly below-average length but big hands, and he catches almost everything he gets his hands on. He's tough over the middle and fights for yards after the catch.
after the draft ESPN still had 18 other WRs ranked ahead of Morgan as undrafted free agents -- the analysis of the WR ranked just ahead of him
Lodge is a natural hands catcher with a wide radius and good body control. He's not the most explosive or fluid route-runner but he changes speeds and tempos his routes well. He doesn't have the second gear to take the top off the coverage and is not an explosive open-field runner.
after the top WRs they are all pretty generic evals
I love Stanley Morgan. I love his attitude. I loved that he stuck around. I loved how hard he competed. I did NOT love some of his inexplicable drops one of which cost us an EASY TD and a win this past year. NFL scouts do NOT miss those inexplicable drops on game film. I don't know if it was a lack of concentration at times or what but he had too many drops the past 2 years for most NFL teams to consider drafting him. Maybe he gets in a camp and proves he can catch the ball consistently and sticks. I hope so. He seems like a really good guy but us loving a guy has no bearing on what NFL teams think about him. He made some spectacular catches at times but man those drops killed his draft potential. Just the way it is. He'll go down as a great Husker.
SJB keeps getting signed then cut. The Ravens just resigned him in March I think. He's had some injury issues and has bounced around but he has to be getting closer to that pension. He originally signed a 3.57M dollar contract with a 970k signing bonus with New Orleans out of college. I would say it worked out for him.
I read that he had some dropped passes at the combine. That certainly didn’t help him either.
If I remember correctly he dropped the first ball thrown to him.
It's far from a perfect science. Football doesn't have sabermetrics the way baseball and basketball do. A lot of guys are undervalued and underrated due to a number of different reasons someday Football will have a Bill James come along and change everything.
Slightly above average does not make an NFL player.
I could have sworn that the "experts" said Quincy Enunwa had average speed.
You say "NFL talent" matters, I say "Talent" matters.
What Frost is looking for in a wide out is a lot different than what most "NFL Pro-style" offenses are looking for.
What Frost is looking for in a quarterback is different than what most NFL teams are looking for. (NFL values arm strength over almost everything; Frost values accuracy & timing)
I agree with you that a lot of teams that are great in college have a lot of NFL talent, but there are teams that don't have a lot of NFL talent on their roster but are yet very good. Look at Purdue, not a single player taken in the NFL draft yesterday yet they went to a bowl and beat Nebraska. Again I agree with you in principal that "Talent" matters. NFL is all about ceiling & fitting into their specific system of certain height, weight, speed, and athleticism.
IMO I would take a good football player over a good athletic person. It is football that they are playing. Just my .02
Quincy did have average speed for a WR. I think he ran a 4.58? The difference was that Q was a monster to go with the speed. Big kid with a tremendous football IQ and attitude. He would decleat people on special teams and NFL scouts notice that kind of stuff. One of my favorite Huskers and at the time I called him the best "football player" on the Husker team. Depending on what weight he was at, he could have played multiple positions for us on offense or defense. Linebacker, safety, WR, TE maybe. Great player.
you are using a 6-7 Purdue team who beat a 4-8 Nebraska team to drive home the point
that you don't need NFL talent to be "very good"?
I agree, you don't need NFL talent to go 6-6 and lose by 49 points in a crappy bowl game
I'm not arguing it is impossible to be very good without a lot of NFL talent just that your odds of being elite are better with a lot of NFL talent on your roster
I don't disagree with what you say. But Stanley is not small. He made many big catches and holds some Nebraska receiving records. I love Quincey (even if I wasn't a Jet fan). But Morgan had 74 more receptions and 1.,200 more yards while both played four year. Admittedly, Morgan played three years with pass happy Mike Riley.
Stanley is not nearly as physical as Enunwa was coming out of college. I didn't say he was small but he's not a big receiver either. Q was 6-2 and 225 with roughly the same speed as Stanley. He was an accomplished blocker and a very good special teams player with big hands.
Agreed there. He has everything the NFL guys want to see in a CB. And he started turning that corner last half of the season and ended up being a very good DB at seasons end. This season we should see a completely different CB. Lamar Jackson could be a 4 rounder all the way up to 2nd, maybe even sneak into the 1st depending how he does this season and his combine numbers.
You will learn young Jedi...it doesn’t matter if Iowa beats us...Iowa SUCKS. Iowa always, always, definitely, SUCK.
Im sorry, some reason I have trouble calling Stan Morgan Jr slightly above average. When I hear that, a ton of WRs are exactly that in college football. If that’s the case, then why aren’t we seeing ever WR on Iowa’s team torching DBs or seeing every team in D1 football having WRs do what Morgan Jr did?
My honest opinion, with his skill set the NFL would like to see him at 6’3-6’5. Morgan Jr is a very physical and strong WR and he’s barely 6’0 or 6’1. We see NFL teams pass on players that have the tiniest of bit of difference on Measurables.
I think people are over-analyzing this regarding Stanley Morgan. First, let's remember that he's far from the first player we've ever had that seemed to be good enough to get drafted but didn't. He's just getting more attention now because our draft streak ended and he seemed to be our best chance to keep it going. In addition, I think it's highly unfair to him to be suggesting that there is something nefarious in his background that kept him from being drafted without any real such evidence. I also think that suggesting that it's obvious that he wasn't draft-worthy simply because he wasn't drafted is simplistic. Could that be true? Sure. But just the mere fact that he wasn't drafted doesn't thus make it true. There have been plenty of situations where somebody was successful that wasn't drafted. Maybe he was draft worthy and maybe he wasn't. He has a free agent deal and has a chance to prove himself. How he does in the future will determine whether he was draft-worthy or not.
I actually see exactly what you mean. Frost is after players that arent always tall or BIG.... he’s after those super fast players on offense that can make players miss tackles in the open field. And I agree, that’s not always NFL material. It’s like this, WanDale Robinson and Moore from Purdue, they could kill it for years in D1 football but when it comes to draft day, neither one might not see their names till 5-7 rounds or even go undrafted.
I’ll agree with that. But I did see a bunch of late round WRs getting drafted have pour sounding evaluations compared to Morgan Jrs and yet they got picked.
Regardless, Stans a Bengal now. He made it to the NFL and achieved his dreams. I’m sure he’d like to have been drafted, but at he end of the day...I’m sure just making is good enough for him. I’ll just wish the young man a long NFL career and much success.
I must admit that I would have rather had my Vikes take Morgan than the 2 WRs they did take in the 7th round. Spielman got to see Stanley up close on multiple occasions and decided to pass on him.