Nebraska's rebuild is more similar to Wisconsin than most realize

[stillh8unlv]

these narratives painting the situation Frost inherited to be similar to Alvarez taking over Wisconsin are simply ridiculous

Alvarez took over a program that had won 6 games in the prior 3 years. Had been to 4 bowl games since 1960 and had 21 losing seasons the prior 25 years. Their last 9 win season occurred in 1901. Wisconsin had nowhere near the facilities, fan support or history/tradition that Nebraska had when Frost took over.

Frost took over a program that had won 19 games the prior 3 years. 51 bowl games and 5 national titles since 1960. Only 4 losing seasons in the last 25 years. The last 9 win season was in 2016 and in 7 of the 8 years prior to that.

Alvarez went to the Rose Bowl in year 4.

These contrived circumstances whereby people convince themselves that Frost is taking over a similar situation as Alvarez is another step in how we accept becoming almost Iowa.

I’m convinced Frost will be here a long long time because either

1. he eventually wins big or
2. Circumstances will continue to be contrived that fictiously conclude outside mysterious forces are conspiring against him and then 7-8 win seasons become “good enough, all things considered” and wallah ... we have our Kirk Ferentz forever coach

Could be worse....you could cycle coaches every 3-5 years only to be sadly disappointed for the next couple a decades....oh wait....

 

[Chuck003]

From what I have seen from most of the returning players and their effort, every freshman on the team should have burned their redshirt 5 minutes into the S Alabama game. We would have been in a better situation for next year, which quite frankly, will probably turn out very similar to this one.

 

[jlb321]

Could be worse....you could cycle coaches every 3-5 years only to be sadly disappointed for the next couple a decades....oh wait....

I'm not in favor of getting rid of Frost - he can stay for his full contract as far as I am concerned - but neither am I in favor of contriving scenarios whereby we paint the Nebraska 2018 job in the same light as the Wisconsin 1990 job to polish 4 win seasons

But since you brought up cycling coaches I submit

Mike Dubous --> Dennis Franchione --> Mike Shula --> Nick Saban
Gary Gibbs --> Schnellenberger --> John Blake --> Bob Stoops
Ted Tollenr --> Larry Smith --> John Robinson --> Paul Hackett --> Pete Carroll
Bob Davie --> Ty Willingham --> Charlie Weiss --> Brian Kelly
Jim Lambright -->Rick Neuheisal --> Keith Gilbertson --> Ty Willingham --> Steve Sarkasian --> Chris Petersen

 

[Catch50]

He brought it up

Don't get me wrong. It was a friendly invite from me.

 

[huskerssalts]

When Frost took over Nebraska there were no mandatory workout requirements. Players were not required to do back squats. Players could opt out of lifting heavyweights. A lot of players stood around the practice field doing nothing. You had an AD dictating who could be fired and who to hire. You had a lot of dysfunction in everything. You had a "oh golly gee" attitude and passive. The program became broken.

How similar is the stuff that Frost took over to Wisconsin when barry took over that program? A lot more similar than most will have any clue about or admit too.

When Barry took over WI, they were considered, by most reasonable standards of college football, a laughingstock. An embarrassment. Young men who put everything into a season but lacked the overall depth of talent to compete with nearly every Big Ten team.

Sound familiar to Nebraska vs Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Wisconsin? 100%.

Respect for Wisconsin football was nonexistent.

They were, as Barry Alvarez would later put it, "the shittiest program maybe in the country."

How had Wisconsin football fallen so low?

It began when respected head coach Dave McClain died unexpectedly of a heart attack on April 28, 1986 at age 48. McClain’s 46 victories in eight seasons were six shy of tying the program record by a head coach in the modern era. What transpired next was a deep dive into the college football abyss.

Defensive coordinator Jim Hilles served as interim coach the ensuing season, but he was not retained following a 3-9 finish. Don Morton then took over after a two-year stint at Tulsa and implemented the veer offense, an option-heavy system that led only to an extraordinarily high number of fumbles — 111 in three seasons — and little progress.

The result: a 6-27 record, including 3-21 in the Big Ten, while being outscored by more than two touchdowns per game. The worst offensive season in the past 45 years.

When Riley was hired, whom was a career-long loser, at Nebraska he brought with him the soft, passive, don't work hard in the weight room or practices and implemented a slow-moving offensive system that included a slow-footed QB that fans mocked with a nickname of "Pick 6."

I could go into more resemblances but you should get the point.

In 1990 Wisconsin football was more the butt of jokes from professors’ opening statements in classes. Like, "Oh yeah, I can’t wait to get to that first game to see the band." At that time they were not real talented. Not a lot of depth. The players in the program became discouraged from the losing and had lost all their confidence. They just didn’t know how to win.

When Barry took the job and was announced as head coach, He said "You’d better get your season tickets now because, before long, you might not be able to."

barry and their team went through tough times. They never compromised who they were and what they were all about. fast forward and they won the 1994 Rose Bowl.

The first recruiting class, and back then you had a lot more time to recruit a first-class then you do today, but that first class is what turned the program around after losing seasons and then suddenly the Rose Bowl.

When Frost was hired at Nebraska the program was broken, it was losing left and right, getting blown out against any good team, but he showed confidence in his schemes and he should have confidence in them, and is now working to change the culture, rebuild the roster, teach the players how to win and eventually, it all will come together.

Coaching hires that have taken place at FSU, TN, USC, Texas, transitions at Ohio State and Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, etc, are NOT similar to what Nebraska is trying to turn around.

I don't see a similar path in similar records, but I do predict we will have a breakout season like barry had at WI and then it is off to the races yearly from that point forward.

take a deep breath, sit back, and wait. The good is coming.

Great minds think a like... I tried to point this very same comparison out already and I barley had a couple likes (May have been one or two to be exact) and had a few people give me crap because of the comparison because one was 1990 rebuild and the other was 2018 rebuild...like it made a difference. A rebuild is a rebuild, regardless the year it took place. At least you got more then several likes then me. I suppose the obvious difference was my name was at top when I posted it and this post has your name is at top. Goes to show, it doesn’t matter what info is posted...some people on here are liked and some (like myself)...well let’s just says isn’t favored lol.

But you’re dead on brotha...Both programs where in shambles and a complete train wreck. Both Head Coaches had their work cut out for them. You see some of these other programs that are having earlier success or immediate success and we aren’t. The biggest difference is ones true rebuild and the other just needed legit coaching. Some of these other teams already had decent to good players already on their roster. All they needed was legit coaching. Unfortunately for us, we don’t have that luxury. Our juniors and seniors aren’t very good. Hell, our best players are sophomores and freshmen. You give Frost a few more years and I guarantee we will start to see some good football being played. It’s just going to take time, just like it did with B Alvarez and Wisconsin back in 1990.

 

[cecilB]

Great minds think a like... I tried to point this very same comparison out already and I barley had a couple likes (May have been one or two to be exact) and had a few people give me crap because of the comparison because one was 1990 rebuild and the other was 2018 rebuild...like it made a difference. A rebuild is a rebuild, regardless the year it took place. At least you got more then several likes then me. I suppose the obvious difference was my name was at top when I posted it and this post has your name is at top. Goes to show, it doesn’t matter what info is posted...some people on here are liked and some (like myself)...well let’s just says isn’t favored lol.

But you’re dead on brotha...Both programs where in shambles and a complete train wreck. Both Head Coaches had their work cut out for them. You see some of these other programs that are having earlier success or immediate success and we aren’t. The biggest difference is ones true rebuild and the other just needed legit coaching. Some of these other teams already had decent to good players already on their roster. All they needed was legit coaching. Unfortunately for us, we don’t have that luxury. Our juniors and seniors aren’t very good. Hell, our best players are sophomores and freshmen. You give Frost a few more years and I guarantee we will start to see some good football being played. It’s just going to take time, just like it did with B Alvarez and Wisconsin back in 1990.

Barry finished his career 65-60-3 in Big Ten games...with .500 and sub .500 teams late in his career, not just the first 2 years

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

Great minds think a like... I tried to point this very same comparison out already and I barley had a couple likes (May have been one or two to be exact) and had a few people give me crap because of the comparison because one was 1990 rebuild and the other was 2018 rebuild...like it made a difference. A rebuild is a rebuild, regardless the year it took place. At least you got more then several likes then me. I suppose the obvious difference was my name was at top when I posted it and this post has your name is at top. Goes to show, it doesn’t matter what info is posted...some people on here are liked and some (like myself)...well let’s just says isn’t favored lol.

But you’re dead on brotha...Both programs where in shambles and a complete train wreck. Both Head Coaches had their work cut out for them. You see some of these other programs that are having earlier success or immediate success and we aren’t. The biggest difference is ones true rebuild and the other just needed legit coaching. Some of these other teams already had decent to good players already on their roster. All they needed was legit coaching. Unfortunately for us, we don’t have that luxury. Our juniors and seniors aren’t very good. Hell, our best players are sophomores and freshmen. You give Frost a few more years and I guarantee we will start to see some good football being played. It’s just going to take time, just like it did with B Alvarez and Wisconsin back in 1990.

The reason you're not getting likes on this is because the situation Alvarez walked into at Wisconsin was far worse than what Frost walked into at Nebraska. Many people, including myself, have pointed to several facts and stats that illustrate that notion, while all uberism has done is 1) bash Riley, which is fine if that's what he wants to do, and 2) just keep on saying that they're similar, without any facts to back it up.

 

[uberism1111]

Great minds think a like... I tried to point this very same comparison out already and I barley had a couple likes (May have been one or two to be exact) and had a few people give me crap because of the comparison because one was 1990 rebuild and the other was 2018 rebuild...like it made a difference. A rebuild is a rebuild, regardless the year it took place. At least you got more then several likes then me. I suppose the obvious difference was my name was at top when I posted it and this post has your name is at top. Goes to show, it doesn’t matter what info is posted...some people on here are liked and some (like myself)...well let’s just says isn’t favored lol.

But you’re dead on brotha...Both programs where in shambles and a complete train wreck. Both Head Coaches had their work cut out for them. You see some of these other programs that are having earlier success or immediate success and we aren’t. The biggest difference is ones true rebuild and the other just needed legit coaching. Some of these other teams already had decent to good players already on their roster. All they needed was legit coaching. Unfortunately for us, we don’t have that luxury. Our juniors and seniors aren’t very good. Hell, our best players are sophomores and freshmen. You give Frost a few more years and I guarantee we will start to see some good football being played. It’s just going to take time, just like it did with B Alvarez and Wisconsin back in 1990.

Yep, it is very similar. Some will refuse to see it.

 

[jlb321]

Yep, it is very similar. Some will refuse to see it.

Barry Alvarez won the Rose Bowl in year 4. Kirk Ferentz in years 4-5-6 finished ranked in the top 10 each of those years. Tick-tock ... year 4 will be here very soon.

I hope Frost can match those accomplishments ... there isn't a scenario much worse than Wisconsin in 1990 to go to ... although I suspect if we aren't a top 10 team by year 4 the apologists will have moved on and point to Marshall post 1970 plane crash as actually the true reality of what Frost inherited. It was 12 years after the crash until Marshall won more than 5 games ... so Frost has a decade + before we can really start to assess the coaching without it being skewed by Riley.

From what I understand production studios are already bidding on the movie rights to the story of how the Nebraska program got turned around against insurmountable odds. Instead of "We are Marshall" the film will be titled "We got Riley'd".

How anyone can compare having 2 losing seasons in 3 years (averaging > 6 wins during those 3 years which included a 9 win season) - to 9 decades of consistent losing in the case of Wisconsin is beyond me.

And really when those who know football look at it, the 2017 team Frost inherited was probably more of a 6-6 or 7-5 team than 4-8. So I'm not sure things were as bad as they are now being made out.

 

[BigRedBeliever]

yes .. you were clearly the voice of reason preaching patience in your sermons after the hire

 

[steventrelain]

When Frost took over Nebraska there were no mandatory workout requirements. Players were not required to do back squats. Players could opt out of lifting heavyweights. A lot of players stood around the practice field doing nothing. You had an AD dictating who could be fired and who to hire. You had a lot of dysfunction in everything. You had a "oh golly gee" attitude and passive. The program became broken.

How similar is the stuff that Frost took over to Wisconsin when barry took over that program? A lot more similar than most will have any clue about or admit too.

When Barry took over WI, they were considered, by most reasonable standards of college football, a laughingstock. An embarrassment. Young men who put everything into a season but lacked the overall depth of talent to compete with nearly every Big Ten team.

Sound familiar to Nebraska vs Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Wisconsin? 100%.

Respect for Wisconsin football was nonexistent.

They were, as Barry Alvarez would later put it, "the shittiest program maybe in the country."

How had Wisconsin football fallen so low?

It began when respected head coach Dave McClain died unexpectedly of a heart attack on April 28, 1986 at age 48. McClain’s 46 victories in eight seasons were six shy of tying the program record by a head coach in the modern era. What transpired next was a deep dive into the college football abyss.

Defensive coordinator Jim Hilles served as interim coach the ensuing season, but he was not retained following a 3-9 finish. Don Morton then took over after a two-year stint at Tulsa and implemented the veer offense, an option-heavy system that led only to an extraordinarily high number of fumbles — 111 in three seasons — and little progress.

The result: a 6-27 record, including 3-21 in the Big Ten, while being outscored by more than two touchdowns per game. The worst offensive season in the past 45 years.

When Riley was hired, whom was a career-long loser, at Nebraska he brought with him the soft, passive, don't work hard in the weight room or practices and implemented a slow-moving offensive system that included a slow-footed QB that fans mocked with a nickname of "Pick 6."

I could go into more resemblances but you should get the point.

In 1990 Wisconsin football was more the butt of jokes from professors’ opening statements in classes. Like, "Oh yeah, I can’t wait to get to that first game to see the band." At that time they were not real talented. Not a lot of depth. The players in the program became discouraged from the losing and had lost all their confidence. They just didn’t know how to win.

When Barry took the job and was announced as head coach, He said "You’d better get your season tickets now because, before long, you might not be able to."

barry and their team went through tough times. They never compromised who they were and what they were all about. fast forward and they won the 1994 Rose Bowl.

The first recruiting class, and back then you had a lot more time to recruit a first-class then you do today, but that first class is what turned the program around after losing seasons and then suddenly the Rose Bowl.

When Frost was hired at Nebraska the program was broken, it was losing left and right, getting blown out against any good team, but he showed confidence in his schemes and he should have confidence in them, and is now working to change the culture, rebuild the roster, teach the players how to win and eventually, it all will come together.

Coaching hires that have taken place at FSU, TN, USC, Texas, transitions at Ohio State and Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, etc, are NOT similar to what Nebraska is trying to turn around.

I don't see a similar path in similar records, but I do predict we will have a breakout season like barry had at WI and then it is off to the races yearly from that point forward.

take a deep breath, sit back, and wait. The good is coming.

I kinda see where you are going with this. McClain's Badgers were respected. Then they fell off a cliff after he died. Pelini's Cornhuskers averaged 9 wins, then Riley tanked the program. You see Frost as Barry Alvarez.

Nothing's impossible. But Alvarez is one of the most respect people in college football, if not the most respected. Oh I know Sabin and Meyer have rooms full of trophies, but Alvarez turned something around and kept it in the right direction. For Frost to be thought of that way he'll have to climb the highest of mountains.