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Nebraska has lost talent . . .

Rittenberg isn't basing his quote on potential at the end of this year, he's looking at where it was at the end of last year compared to years past. We have a lot of young potential on this team but a big reason it's so much young potential is that there isn't much substance shown from the older players still here and we are relying on multiple transfers to be serious contributors if not outright starters on both sides of the ball.


I'm looking at what the 2014 team looked like to an outsider before the 2014 season compared to what the 2019 team looks like to one before this season. But lets see what your criticisms are:


1. Way to completely ignore Ameer there. We currently have Washington who looks good but has legal troubles and Mills who also looks good but did all his damage somewhere else. No other back on the roster has more than 80 yards or even a dozen touches to their name. Cross as the 3rd back was coming off a season where he averaged 5.3 ypc and scored 10 touchdowns. To someone looking at more than just potential- Ameer, Newby and Cross pre 2014 looks better than Washington Mills and whoever the 3rd back is pre 2019.

2. He didn't live up to the hype but again pre 2014 Carter and Sam Cotton looked like a better tandem than Stoll and Radafal does - Frosts offense is Way better for TE's than Beck or Langsdorf's was. Once 2019 is over this position will look WAY better than it's looked in a decade, but it hasn't been seen yet.

3. JD is yes, who else ya got? Warner with his 17 catches for 95 yards? Williams with his 12 catches for 122 yards? Ya got a transfer from Cal and a bunch of hopes and dreams who we hope turn into a great WR corps.

2014 has Westercamp, Bell and Enunwa proven commodities and the backups, Turner and Moore each with more production than every WR we have on the roster combined other than those 4 I named.

4. If you are seriously questioning if Pickering and Armstrong looked better than Brown and Foltz I will start questioning if you even know what a football looks like.

Pickering has a career average under 80% Brown was a 3 star kicker who played for one of the best highschools in the country and won multiple kicking awards.

Armstrong actually looked good last year but he was a backup for a reason and only has 24 punts on his record. Foltz already had a full season of 70 kicks and a 41.6 ypk average and was deadly accurate.


Again we're looking at what the roster looks like Pre 2019 to what it looked like Pre 2014 as 2014 was Pelini's worst looking roster.


Going into 2014 we had at least one game changing talent on each side of the ball in and had the hope for 2-3 more mostly from guys on the roster taking that next step.

Going into 2019 we have ONE and we are hoping for 4-5 more mostly coming from transfers and guys with very little to no previous production ie. guys like Jurgens, Honas and a #3 WR.
Ok, get any team, the first year of a coach, you have major attrition, even a coach of the year, now,add in two more coaches and their systems, add even more attrition, no brainer.
Add in, Nebraska was still a well known brand during Callahan,minus some attrition with Bo coming in, but not nearly as much, just go back and look.
So, first year, this idiot is only being capt obvious after a coaching change,while ignoring everything else, which he also did.
He's what one would call a tool in its finest essence.
 
Ok, get any team, the first year of a coach, you have major attrition, even a coach of the year, now,add in two more coaches and their systems, add even more attrition, no brainer.
Add in, Nebraska was still a well known brand during Callahan,minus some attrition with Bo coming in, but not nearly as much, just go back and look.
So, first year, this idiot is only being capt obvious after a coaching change,while ignoring everything else, which he also did.
He's what one would call a tool in its finest essence.

He may be a tool, but he's also not wrong. The talent dropped. That sure as hell isn't a knock on Frost. Frost is building it up - and building it faster than most probably anticipated but it still needed rebuilt.

Of COURSE he's being captain obvious to us. We follow the program. He's talking to people that do not, in a one line quip. You need to understand the context.

And even then, no most coaching changes don't see 20+ guys get dropped from the program before the new staff coaches a single game. We had a LOT more turnover than usual. Frost put on big boy pants and made changes quick. Most don't.
 
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My argument is that we will have a better idea as to how the talent Frost has at his disposal this year compares to that of Pelini teams circa 2013 and 2014 and that Bo had enough talent to win more games that he did in those years. Bo, his staff and his approach to defense in the B1G hurt the win total more than the players he had.
Frost's players now have multiple strength and conditioning cycles and are in Year 2 of the same offensive and defensive systems. The players and staff seem pretty upbeat, which is not surprising. A number of young kids look to be valuable contributors and the staff added a couple of quality 5th year transfer guys. Darrion was chosen as a captain. The schedule is much more favorable than last year. I am looking forward to the season.
I agree Bo's struggles in his later years was more about coaching than the players he had. Bo was actually a pretty decent recruiter with top 25 classes most years. If you look at the list of names who were starters who played well and guys who played in the NFL even if they weren't drafted, Bo did pull in a lot of talent here even after Callahan's recruits left.

How did everyone go from thinking Riley was a great recruiter to thinking he was terrible? I think Riley did ok at recruiting too and probably pulled in enough talent to win 9 games a year. The problem is when your players don't get any better since the time they arrive as freshman, you're not going to win many games.
 
2013 team:

Avery Moss
Maliek Collins
Vince Valentine
Randy Gregory
Zaire Anderson
Nate Gerry
Stanley Jean Baptiste
Ameer Abdullah
Quincy Enunwa
Kenny Bell
Taylor Martinez
Jordan Westerkamp
Brent Qvale
Jeremiah Sireles
Cethan Carter
Andy Janovich
Spencer Long
Taylor Martinez


That's a list of future pros and some really good College Football players. Rittenberg wasn't completely off base. Mike Riley and staff were grossly overrated as evaluators and recruiters.

Pelini's issue is he didn't bring in enough talent. He often didn't have plan B players in place if his top target chose elsewhere.

And his personality impeded his ability to attract high level assistant coaches
I think that list shows Bo was not near as bad at recruiting or pulling in talent as some on here make him out to be. I think it was more due to coaching that he wasn't able to get over the hump.
 
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I was comparing pre 2014 to pre 2019.

Not a single one of those things applies to the question: Has the talent level dropped since Pelini was fired? Bo being a bad coach and program manager while true is irrelevant to the topic.

Talent development in 2018? They seemed to play better at the end of last season.
 
Not defending Riley because he sucked and never should have been hired for a job like this but a lot of the reason he didn't hit the juco market and our strength and conditioning was as anemic as it was, was because of SE's athletic department policies.
Who do you think has more pull at Nebraska, the AD or the head football coach? That says it all for why he should have never been hired here if he was going to let someone else decide how he wants to run his program.
 
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He may be a tool, but he's also not wrong. The talent dropped. That sure as hell isn't a knock on Frost. Frost is building it up - and building it faster than most probably anticipated but it still needed rebuilt.

Of COURSE he's being captain obvious to us. We follow the program. He's talking to people that do not, in a one line quip. You need to understand the context.

And even then, no most coaching changes don't see 20+ guys get dropped from the program before the new staff coaches a single game. We had a LOT more turnover than usual. Frost put on big boy pants and made changes quick. Most don't.
Talent has always dropped year one,thus its obvious.
Now, add in a recruiting class, we already have the potential to have better players.
So, first year cant count, hurried classes, guys a coach was in on from their previous scholl, they leave alone for the most part,and have to start over in essence.
If anyone knows our current team is not as talented as a pelini team, put it in your sig, leave it there for three more years, I'm sure it'll draw some conversations going forwards.
But, this media guy, picks the most obvious time in any time, a coaching transition, and if people are dumb enough to settle that what talent we saw year one, same players, arent possibly much much better year four or five, cant help you.
Not saying its you, but he's the one, this tool, who makes such comparisons.
The SnC has changed, coaching obviously, culture has changed, where in his fool comment does this fit, let alone attrition?
No, as of now, I cant say there was more talent then compared to last year or this year, especially with a guy that went from 0-12 to 13-0 in two years, to me, if anything, the tool is disrespecting this staff.
As to numbers, again, dont ignore why to prove a tool right.
The players themselves are on record that a player who breaks the little rules is not a team player, and if youre not a team player, you neednt be on the team.
If yoy havnt, do yourself a favor, and read this https://hailvarsity.com/s/7517/the-choice-to-change
Now, maybe youll understand the attrition better, and some were Bo guys too.
 
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The players themselves are on record that a player who breaks the little rules is not a team player, and if youre not a team player, you neednt be on the team.
If yoy havnt, do yourself a favor, and read this https://hailvarsity.com/s/7517/the-choice-to-change
Now, maybe youll understand the attrition better, and some were Bo guys too.
Great article. Foster, Mick and Gifford were all Pelini recruits. They could have decided to phone it in after the horrific start, but decided to make a stand for a program that had been a big part of their lives even before they were on the team. And it looks like Mo Barry took the torch from them.
 
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IMO, Bo knew a little football, but hadn't been built to be the face & mouthpiece of a major corporation. It's not enough to only wear one hat today......& more to the point Nebraska lost talent when T.O. went to Washington, basically punching a 20 year vaporize button, unfortunately.
 
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I agree Bo's struggles in his later years was more about coaching than the players he had. Bo was actually a pretty decent recruiter with top 25 classes most years. If you look at the list of names who were starters who played well and guys who played in the NFL even if they weren't drafted, Bo did pull in a lot of talent here even after Callahan's recruits left.

How did everyone go from thinking Riley was a great recruiter to thinking he was terrible? I think Riley did ok at recruiting too and probably pulled in enough talent to win 9 games a year. The problem is when your players don't get any better since the time they arrive as freshman, you're not going to win many games.
Bo got some guys just not enough of them and often had GAPING holes in his roster. Where were the D tackles after Crick and Suh left? Carl was too busy doing blow and chasing tail to recruit DTs. Kaz got some reasonably good guys in. The issue is that it may be correct that the talent level fell off under Riley but did it fall off simply due to a physical lack of talent or did the slacking in the weight room lead to part of that problem. The bottomline was that the talent during Bo's tenure WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH and it sure as hell wasn't good enough during Riley's tenure either. In BOTH cases IMO it should have been good enough to win more games than we did. So saying that Bo had more talent than Riley is like saying a small breasted woman's right tit is bigger than her left one. Who cares!
 
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Oh Gawd......the endlessly used BS. Geesh.....if Clownahan really had such outrageously great talent how come he lost to almost everybody? Even in his fourth year as our HC (with all of his so-called AWESOME recruiting talent) his conference record was 2 - 6.

Yeah, yeah....his offense according to almost everybody was terrific but mostly the good stats came from boatloads of garbage time. But.....oh well, thank God he's long gone.
Callahan brought in some tremendous players. Unfortunately his defensive staff was not good. That's all. I could go back and list the NFL players he landed but that wouldn't matter to you as you continue to let your hatred for Callahan deny factual information. Some of BC's recruits are STILL playing at a high level in the NFL ironically on defense.
 
I can see where you’re going with this. And you may end up being correct. But… You are comparing an already known fact in the past to what you think is going to happen in the future. It’s just not an apples to apples comparison. If you want to say the 2018 defense did not match up or compare to the 2014, I would agree. But until you see what these players can do this year, especially at running back and wide receiver, you are just guessing

It is like saying your investments made you $1000 from Jan to Dec in 2014 and then in June of 2019, when you’ve only earned $600, saying in 2014 you had better investments.
Mark it down in the books I agree 100% with Tuco
 
Wait are people seriously trying to say this isn't true?

Other than QB, how many positions right now has a definitively better starter than even Pelini's last team in 2014?

RB - there is potential here in 2019 but better than Ameer? Not likely. Better than Newby, Cross and Janovich? We'll see.

TE - Cethan Carter is a better athlete than any TE on our roster. God he needed a good coach.

WR - Again potential is here but Spielman is our top WR Warner is #2 and the rest is unproven. 2014 has Kenny Bell, Jordan Westerkamp and Jamal Turner.

OL - Brendan Jaimes vs Alex Lewis is an interesting one but while there is potential in Farinok, Jurgens and Benhart there was a ton of potential in Jerald Foster, Tanner Farmer and Nick Gates too. Push.. maybe?

DL - This may be the best position group we have in 2019... and yet 2014 destoys it. Randy Gregory Malik Collins Vincent Valentine Mick Stoltenberg Peyton Newell etc. Take away injuries and the awfulness that was Hank Hughes coaching that plagued those that stayed, 2014 we had almost a complete NFL quality 2 deep.

LB - this is tougher because Michael Rose-Ivey only played 6 games in 2014 and they had some depth with Bando, Roach Gifford Santos and Anderson..but Mo Barry is a dude and Honas, Heinrich, Domann, Miller, Ferguson and Davis are likely better. 2019 wins a 2nd position group!

DB - Bo's worst secondary... still had Nate Gerry, Chris Jones Josh Kalu and Corey Cooper. 2019's secondary needs to prove it.

K - Drew Brown and Sam Foltz. Nuff said.



Frost is building the roster back up but if you think we have a better overall roster now than we had before Mike Riley you are seriously fooling yourself. And this was just Pelini's last and likely least talented team.
Peyton Newell...lol
 
Oh, I just want to leave this right here...

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Good ol Bo Pelosi, er I mean Pelini !!!
 
Callahan brought in some tremendous players. Unfortunately his defensive staff was not good. That's all. I could go back and list the NFL players he landed but that wouldn't matter to you as you continue to let your hatred for Callahan deny factual information. Some of BC's recruits are STILL playing at a high level in the NFL ironically on defense.

I really don't care about the NFL at all. I don't even watch it anymore so it may or may not be factual information but I DO care about NU & cfb.

Clownahan was a total & complete failure as NU's HC. That simply cannot be denied.
 
Peyton Newell...lol

Again I was doing that on the prospective of a 2014 season preview. People forget how good Newell could have been or how big of a recruiting win he was seen as. He was a 4 star commit with offers from over 30 P5 schools including USC, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Baylor, Clemson, Georgia and Oklahoma. In HS he had set multiple school records playing DT and TE and had dominated a bunch of the national camps.

FWIW, I'm not sure if there was any player more f'ed over by Hank Hughes and then the move to a 3-4 than Newell. I have been told by people who actually were at those practices that Newell would have been a really really good 4-3 DT and had a legit shot at the NFL if he had transferred.

He had great physical ability but he was from a very rural high school and needed to be taught technique. Hughes never really did that - with anyone. Also, in no way was he a 3-4 Nose which is where he had to play his last 3 seasons.

That said, last year he did record the only interception by a defensive lineman since Pelini left.

Between 2010 and 2014 alone we had 6 Defensive Linemen get picks. Newell's pick against Cookman last year was the first since Randy Gregory's pick 30 seconds into the game against Michigan State in 2014.
 
At the moment, probably. Doesnt have anything to do with this season or this weeks game.
 
Again I was doing that on the prospective of a 2014 season preview. People forget how good Newell could have been or how big of a recruiting win he was seen as. He was a 4 star commit with offers from over 30 P5 schools including USC, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Baylor, Clemson, Georgia and Oklahoma. In HS he had set multiple school records playing DT and TE and had dominated a bunch of the national camps.

FWIW, I'm not sure if there was any player more f'ed over by Hank Hughes and then the move to a 3-4 than Newell. I have been told by people who actually were at those practices that Newell would have been a really really good 4-3 DT and had a legit shot at the NFL if he had transferred.

He had great physical ability but he was from a very rural high school and needed to be taught technique. Hughes never really did that - with anyone. Also, in no way was he a 3-4 Nose which is where he had to play his last 3 seasons.

That said, last year he did record the only interception by a defensive lineman since Pelini left.

Between 2010 and 2014 alone we had 6 Defensive Linemen get picks. Newell's pick against Cookman last year was the first since Randy Gregory's pick 30 seconds into the game against Michigan State in 2014.

To be clear, he was a 3-star player on 2 of the 3 services that have ratings available for him, and he also was a composite 3-star rated player.

I watched him get buried time and time again during games by opposing offensive lineman. There is nothing "NFL caliber" about him, I'm sorry to say. I think you help the credibility of your argument if you cite players who had a decent career, which is why I LOL'd when you included him in your list of talent. At no time in a game did he display a 4-star level of talent, and I don't think anyone would question that. Peyton Newell caught a ball that him him in the chest. That's the extent of his role in that play. Right place, right time. That's it.
 
Again I was doing that on the prospective of a 2014 season preview. People forget how good Newell could have been or how big of a recruiting win he was seen as. He was a 4 star commit with offers from over 30 P5 schools including USC, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Baylor, Clemson, Georgia and Oklahoma. In HS he had set multiple school records playing DT and TE and had dominated a bunch of the national camps.

FWIW, I'm not sure if there was any player more f'ed over by Hank Hughes and then the move to a 3-4 than Newell. I have been told by people who actually were at those practices that Newell would have been a really really good 4-3 DT and had a legit shot at the NFL if he had transferred.

He had great physical ability but he was from a very rural high school and needed to be taught technique. Hughes never really did that - with anyone. Also, in no way was he a 3-4 Nose which is where he had to play his last 3 seasons.

That said, last year he did record the only interception by a defensive lineman since Pelini left.

Between 2010 and 2014 alone we had 6 Defensive Linemen get picks. Newell's pick against Cookman last year was the first since Randy Gregory's pick 30 seconds into the game against Michigan State in 2014.

Again, not to belabor the point, but you keep bringing it back up.

You have the benefit of hindsight. So regardless if you say you are looking at it from a preseason perspective or not, you have the benefit of the 2014 season having already been played to make your evaluation. That doesn't even include the 2015 season that some of those players played, that will undoubtedly factor into your perception of the 2014 in a "preseason evaluation".

Save this post, and come back in January and let me know if you still feel the same way. You know, after you have the 2019 season in hindsight to compare it to the 2014 season in hindsight.
 
Who's to say he didn't try?
He should have let it be known. What happened to Banker, who wasnt bad, loyalty to the heart of Nebraska should come first, he never tried to see a bigger picture.
The admin stunk, but they all worked for the people of Nebraska, MR never played on that, and, at least Bo, well, we knew how messed up it was becoming, so, they got a yes man in MR, who, like Bo, I was all in for, but through his inactions, lowered him well under Bo.
He was more ceo like the media is always hating on, than one who led, bled and championed his team.
 
Again, not to belabor the point, but you keep bringing it back up.

You have the benefit of hindsight. So regardless if you say you are looking at it from a preseason perspective or not, you have the benefit of the 2014 season having already been played to make your evaluation. That doesn't even include the 2015 season that some of those players played, that will undoubtedly factor into your perception of the 2014 in a "preseason evaluation".

Save this post, and come back in January and let me know if you still feel the same way. You know, after you have the 2019 season in hindsight to compare it to the 2014 season in hindsight.
Cam Jurgens who? Most likely first, or highest on the list for this team.
 
To be clear, he was a 3-star player on 2 of the 3 services that have ratings available for him, and he also was a composite 3-star rated player.

I watched him get buried time and time again during games by opposing offensive lineman. There is nothing "NFL caliber" about him, I'm sorry to say. I think you help the credibility of your argument if you cite players who had a decent career, which is why I LOL'd when you included him in your list of talent. At no time in a game did he display a 4-star level of talent, and I don't think anyone would question that. Peyton Newell caught a ball that him him in the chest. That's the extent of his role in that play. Right place, right time. That's it.
Peyton Newell was bust-adjacent.
 
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Again, not to belabor the point, but you keep bringing it back up.

You have the benefit of hindsight. So regardless if you say you are looking at it from a preseason perspective or not, you have the benefit of the 2014 season having already been played to make your evaluation. That doesn't even include the 2015 season that some of those players played, that will undoubtedly factor into your perception of the 2014 in a "preseason evaluation".

Save this post, and come back in January and let me know if you still feel the same way. You know, after you have the 2019 season in hindsight to compare it to the 2014 season in hindsight.
It’s hard to believe that this thread is still living. I don’t think anyone denies Pelini had talent on the 2014 roster. Nine games were won. We don’t know what this current crew will do. But this winter, no one will likely give a shit about Pelini-2014. So now is the time for unknowable comparisons.
 
It’s hard to believe that this thread is still living. I don’t think anyone denies Pelini had talent on the 2014 roster. Nine games were won. We don’t know what this current crew will do. But this winter, no one will likely give a shit about Pelini-2014. So now is the time for unknowable comparisons.

True
 
A solution of sorts does exist that would be of the apples to apples variety. Take the two deep and compare Rivals rankings. Choose the higher score for any chart line that has an OR. Include Rivals bonus points for blue chips. Highest score wins.
I think I know the winner.
 
What if this team goes 10-2 then wins its bowl game?
No Pelini team ever won 11
Can you believe that what kept a 10-win team from being an 11-win team, which was :01 from winning the B12 championship, was a loss to a 7-6 Iowa State team by a score of 9-7 while losing the turnover battle 8-0.

That season easily could have been a 12-win season if we don't lose to VT by a single point. Remember how that game ended? We had VT 2nd and 6 on their own 16 yard line with 1:20 to play and we proceeded to give up a 80-yard pass down the sideline that set up their go ahead touchdown with 20 seconds left. Alex Henery hit 5 FGs that day, including a 19-yarder because we just couldn't find the endzone. That day. What a heart wrenching season.
 
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2014 offensive 2-deep vs. Illinois: 19 rated, 3 NR, average of rated 5.65. If the NRs are tabulated as a 5 (below 2*), the average is 5.56.
2019 offensive 2-deep just released: 21, 1 NR, average of rated 5.7. If the NR is tabulated as a 5, the average is 5.67.
 
He should have let it be known. What happened to Banker, who wasnt bad, loyalty to the heart of Nebraska should come first, he never tried to see a bigger picture.
The admin stunk, but they all worked for the people of Nebraska, MR never played on that, and, at least Bo, well, we knew how messed up it was becoming, so, they got a yes man in MR, who, like Bo, I was all in for, but through his inactions, lowered him well under Bo.
He was more ceo like the media is always hating on, than one who led, bled and championed his team.
What "actions" did Bo take against Eichorst? Maybe Bo did "stand up" against SE, but I'm not familiar with anything.

Mike Riley making it known to the public wouldn't have changed anything. Inactions? Seriously, how do you think it would play out?

SE: Bob Diaco is available & I really want him as our DC so we're going to have to go ahead and let Banker go. Go fire him.
MR: No way, Banker is my guy and I need him on m staff.
SE: Yeah, we're letting Banker go anyway.
MR: ***Runs to the media to "let it be known"*** Nothing changes, Banker is fired, Diaco is hired, we go 4-8, SE and MR both fired.

or

MR: I'm excited about this recruiting season.
SE: Great, btw we're not going to be allowing any Juco's.
MR: Uh, getting some Juco's would really help this team.
SE: Doesn't matter, I have my reason, no Juco's.
MR: Well I'm going to recruit them anyway.
SE: That's fine, we're not going to accept their LOI.
MR: ***Runs to the media to "let it be known"*** Nothing changes, no Juco recruits, we go 4-8, SE and MR both fired.

I believe one of the many reasons why Frost will be successful is because of the support he has from the administration. They are 100% behind Frost and will let him run his program the way he sees fit. Whatever Frost asks for he will get & also no one is going to make Frost do anything he doesn't want to do and that's the way it should be. Let the coaches run their program. Administration... just stay out of the way.
 
Can you believe that what kept a 10-win team from being an 11-win team, which was :01 from winning the B12 championship, was a loss to a 7-6 Iowa State team by a score of 9-7 while losing the turnover battle 8-0.

That season easily could have been a 12-win season if we don't lose to VT by a single point. Remember how that game ended? We had VT 2nd and 6 on their own 16 yard line with 1:20 to play and we proceeded to give up a 80-yard pass down the sideline that set up their go ahead touchdown with 20 seconds left. Alex Henery hit 5 FGs that day, including a 19-yarder because we just couldn't find the endzone. That day. What a heart wrenching season.
No offense goes a long ways. Non correct discipline goes even further. 8? Thats just lazy football right there.
I know about this, I remember that game.
Even diaco looked great with superior talent. The offense never really changed when our qb led the nation in turnovers later on in Bo's tenure.
If we do have less talent, it'll be a very dark mark on our previous coaches who supposedly had greater talent and fewer wins, including and especially Bo.
But, then those who make this better talent back then will slowly come to the realization that until todays talent has played and won, that its still too early to confirm how much talent we currently have vs then

You can Bolieve it.
 
since Bo Pelini left town. - Adam Rittenberg.

Discuss
One of the reasons Pelini left town was his inability to get to the next level. We saw the quality and level of later Pelini recruits with Riley's first two years. Pelini's best years were on the backs of Callahan recruits like Suh. While we can talk about the pros and cons of Callahan, he was a good recruiter. We can also talk about the pros and cons of Pelini, but I don't think anyone is going to seriously say his strength was his recruiting :p That is just too funny.
 
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