We really need to stop comparing ourselves to Europe. They did what they needed to do and we have not.
Marlins 14 covid cases
- Thread starter slwags
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dont know what state you live in - but Nebraska per capita is one of the states most heavily reliant on agriculture. Agriculture is one of the most heavily government subsidized industries we have. The state and its citizens are heavily reliant on government aid - they just use a fancy word like subsidies rather than handouts
I thought Nebraska was typically one of only 8 - 10 states that give more in taxes per citizen to the federal government than it receives back.
you can say that if you want and statistically speaking it would probably improve the effects on our society but the virus wreaks havoc with people who are very healthy and do all those things too. my niece grew up as a year round swimmer; is thin; eats a diet full of fruits/veggies; follows a mediterranean style diet; sleeps well and is 25 years old. She got the virus back in March in Chicago. She had a high fever for 2 weeks before starting to feel better. She has had bouts with fatigue and shortness of breath ever since. Thats 4 months. Just had another X-ray and blood test came back normal. This is not uncommon. The virus did not spare the countries who are some of the healthiest in the world. So yes being healthier would probably improve outcomes but it would not stop this virus from wreaking havoc on our country
all that income is propped up by government subsidies - it isn't counted as gov aid on the front end
much in the same way all government military contracts/subsidies aren't counted as government aid
Oh they did? Please tell us more.. Europe has largely acted the same way as the US and the rest of the world. The fact is, the world still doesn't know the answers to Covid-19 and acting like lockdown or staying open was the silver bullet is a not correct. There are a lot of different studies about the effectiveness of masking as well.
It sure helps out a lot more. There are going to be exceptions to every rule, but as this thing has evolved we can see that unhealthy people and old people seem to be the major targets of this disease...... Stop focusing on the exceptions.
LOL
have you ever seen what their free healthcare looks like? or their free housing? thats kinda like bitching about medicaid benefits. nobody wants to be on medicaid. it sucks
we herded american indians into small corrals in the middle of nowhere and you want to use them as an example of guaranteed income not working? thats ludicrous
FYI Canada has actually done a well designed study on guaranteed income in one of their towns. At the end of 5 years it had done exactly what they had hoped for. Crime was down significantly. Unemployment went down as well. Home ownership went up.
i dont think anyone can say for certain what would happen. but what we're doing now isn't working
i understand and stated that in my post. Overall it would probably be helpful. But i was responding to a post that made the impression that this would never have happened if we were a healthier country. and that is simply way off. this virus is catastrophic in healthy countries too. we would be better off without any diabetics. but that doesn't mean it would make this virus comparable to a common cold as far as outcomes to our society.
I guess in the study I was looking at, government contracts, grants, direct payments/wages, etc were all included, and while I didn't see farm subsidies explicitly identified, I assumed they were included as well. If they weren't included that would seem like a major oversight on part of the authors.
https://rockinst.org/issue-area/balance-of-payments-2020/
you're right. it wouldn't reduce impact to zero.
however, if we were a country of healthy swimmers, the death numbers would look a lot different. not probably, definitely.
the better we are equipped to individually defend anything physiologically, the easier it becomes to deal with en masse.
also, the less you'll cost everyone in healthcare, etc., down the road.
google it. some canadien provinces are looking at it again as an experiment. the initial study was from the 1970s. The most significant impact was peoples health. Significantly fewer hospitalizations and mental health encounters. The study was buried when the conservatives took office and so was not evaluated until much later. but it makes sense that these things would improve. Its why wealth is the #1 predictor for so many things in life.
IQ has been shown in some studies to fluctuate based on an individuals current income level. People who live in poverty make bad decisions not because they are dumb but because their current conditions alter their decision making process. people have been shown to improve decision making after their income goes up. and the reverse
Poor isn't dumb. Poor is just poor
Yeah..stop counting everything as a Corona death.
You are crazy if dont think Corona is rampant in Europe.
Otherwise they never shutdown.
I was reading about recommendations Dr. Kahn from UNMC had about opening schools safely. 15 European countries had varying degrees of success, but opened gradually. Then opened fully at 7-9 COVID 19 cases per million people. UNMC thinks schools could be opened safely here at 25-50 cases per million people. Omaha and Lincoln were at 150 and 142 cases per million people.
So other than realizing that we're way too high in cases to open schools in those two cities right now, the other take away I had is that there is no comparison between the U.S. and those 15 European countries. We cannot say this or that is working in Europe so it should work here, because we have far more infections in our general population. It won't be that easy.
They shut down like a lot of places in the U.S., except in the U.S. we opened up too quickly. Europe followed strict guidelines.
Europe is barely testing. Remember Italy.
They don't count pre existing conditions deaths as Covid deaths like Dr Birx says we do.
It's the rural way. Talk about the big city folks on welfare but ignore all the agricultural subsidies. How about subsidized high speed internet. I live rural but I get sick of farmers acting like they never got or get help. How many years did USDA direct payments go out?
I agree, but at least the rural folks actually work and produce something at the end of the day vs. just taking the handout, looking for more handouts, and never trying to better their situation because they are cool with receiving just enough so they don't have to do anything. Hell, look at the Cares Act. That $600 bucks made a whole shit load of people want to stay home vs. work.
It was an interesting read for sure. I'm somewhat intrigued by UBI or, "Mincome" in this case, but there are some big red flags for me.
This was a rural town in Canada, which if you have been to Canada is much like the US. I think if you tested this theory in rural US you would probably get the same result, but believe the big issue is not the rural parts of our country. I'd like to see what UBI does for folks in the cities. In the couple articles I read, it helped people reduce their alcoholism because of not having to worry about their basic bills, but didn't go much more into how it really improved their mental health outside of substance abuse (Only read two articles due to time).
It seemed part of this study was backed by the oil money that comes out of the oil sands and the offshore rigs in Newfoundland and when something happened to that, they were unable to fund it due to the high cost as both articles admitted there is a significant cost to this type of program. I'm all for finding some system to make people's life better, but over the course of history of the US, we have thrown all kinds of money at social problems and nothing has really changed. Would UBI change this?
When Andrew Yang promoted UBI, I definitely had some curiosity about it, but I think my biggest hang up is the fact that I feel like nothing would change. If you gave the middle class more money they are probably going to, for the most part, use it to make their life better. With that said, in the poorer areas, are they going to use it to attempt to make their life better, or are they just going to want more? Are they going to work, or just sit home and collect their UBI and live how they've always lived on the government system? Some of this was plain as day with the stimulus money. That money is a laughable amount, but from what I saw the poorer class was looking to get themselves a new TV and all kinds of shit they didn't need vs. using that on food/housing/essential needs.
If this was 1945 I think there would be a better chance of implementing vs. today where everyone is just looking to get free things and not have to do shit to earn it.
Agreed. No one should be making more to stay home then work. I know people who aren't lazy who were hoping to be laid off for another month or two. They went back as soon as it opened but were majorly cleaning house for a couple months.
For one, how do you know what European countries count and don't count?
Secondly, there are people with C19 that might have had an underlying issue, but were hardly at death's door prior to getting the virus and dying. Seems to me that C19 would be a contributing factor to those deaths.
My father has liver damage as a result of long-term use of a prescribed drug for a medical condition. Therefore, his immune system is compromised. He is very low priority for a transplant at this time, because he has taken very good care of himself otherwise. He modified his diet many years ago, been physically active, and is in good cardio/respiratory health. However, there's a good chance that C19 kills him if he gets it. Are you trying to tell us that if he were to catch C19 and die, you think his death should be classified as "liver failure"?
People did what needed to be done to bring their case levels down. The US seems to be the only nation in which the virus has become a political issue.
A lady on another forum pointed to how Taiwan has fared so well with schools having been kept open. Of course, she didn't want to get into how anyone coming into Taiwan is on 14-day quarantine, or how their people face fines and social media scorn for not wearing masks, or how Taiwan had a national response/policy led by infectious disease experts that was developed after the bird flu outbreak (as opposed to a patchwork of policies that were largely developed by politicians with political considerations in mind first and foremost). I'd be willing to bet that their infectious disease people aren't the subject to moronic conspiracy theories.
Take it away. Feel free. Watch your food prices triple.
Anyone who thinks that subsidy is for the farmers is flat out wrong -- to put it kindly.
My grandpa was a custom harvestor and I spent a lot of time in the cab of his combines all over the midwest...people who think giving the farmers some help is wrong just really don't understand their business....and what would happen to food prices if it stopped....and I will add that helping the farmers also helps all Americans. That is one thing you can point to and say we all get something out of it
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I grew up in the business. Throw in that dad and grandpa were used equipment dealers and I've been around the country and seen a lot of stuff.
The "farmers get subsidies so they need to shut up" line of thought I hear a lot gets shut down HARD around me.
Food prices triple? I don't think so. Think of all the wasted time, money, and energy put into ethanol. Dairy farms have to dump milk because of low prices. Theres alot of things that could be done to help consumers and family farms but don't because corporate farms have too much power. We can always produce as much food as needed, IMO, it's the what happens in between the farm and store shelf that drives prices.
I'm fine helping farmers, I would just like them to admit they get help.
You're not messing with the farmer's handouts. That was the point.
You're messing with yours. The farmers are actually losing money. That's how the economics works. Prices go up they do better but there's more boom and bust... which is bad for prices and survival. It isn't rocket science.
Like I said. Feel free. Take them away.
Triple is probably lowballing it. They've got 100 to 1 leverage keeping commodities down. Plus 40+ years of complacency.
what we're doing now is not working. so why not do a pilot program in a big city somewhere in the US? lets find out the answers instead of spending our lives wondering what would actually happen
so farming is different than every other industry in the country? im not a farmer so teach me
It's it's own animal but supply and demand is easy.
More boom and bust equals less supply and significantly higher prices. Especially with the leverage involved.
The subsidies are for the masses. Not the farmers.
Disagree. We can produce all the food we need. We waste all kinds of "food" with ethanol, dumping milk, plowing under sugarbeats....
We've made steps in the right direction like eliminating direct payments, which was where farmers literally got a check for showing up at FSA. You didn't actually have to successfully grow something. My take is the government should continue to move toward conservation payments where farmers get money for increased fertilizer and irrigation efficiency, filter strips, manure management. Everyone wins under that scenario.
Again, I'm not against helping farmers. It would just be nice to have them acknowledge that the u.s taxpayer, including big city folk, help them out.
The subsidies were to keep food cheap, until technology came along. The improvements in ag in the last 20 years have been staggering. They can grow 200 bushel corn by the Canadian border!
I don't want to quibble about this. There are instances of over stating this, but other instances of under stating that. Bottom line- we need to do much better. We can point fingers and pass the blame around all day, but that hasn't helped.
For the Marlins, it's my hope that they call up the reserves and play without the other guys. Let them quarantine for 14 days. If they figure out who "f-ed" up and went to the bars or whatever. Call that person out, give him some public shame and move on.
What will happen when the Huskers have 10-20 guys who test positive? Will the next two games be cancelled? Will we play on without them? What if the positive tests include the QB and starting offensive line? Does a school cancel based on WHO tests positive?
For the Marlins, it's my hope that they call up the reserves and play without the other guys. Let them quarantine for 14 days. If they figure out who "f-ed" up and went to the bars or whatever. Call that person out, give him some public shame and move on.
What will happen when the Huskers have 10-20 guys who test positive? Will the next two games be cancelled? Will we play on without them? What if the positive tests include the QB and starting offensive line? Does a school cancel based on WHO tests positive?
they don't require a 14-day quarantine, just 2 subsequent negative tests.
Juan Soto tested positive on Opening Day (last Thurs), tested negative yesterday, will test negative again today and likely return to the lineup by week's end.
Thanks. I haven't even tried to keep track of the rules. I'm also not that big of a baseball fan anymore.
hopefully the B1G requires similar instead of an instant, no questions asked 14-day quarantine period.
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