Losing DPE is a blow but not critical

[SnohomishRed]

Mind you guy is a great player and we will sorely miss him on punt returns but I still think the critical areas we need to excel at this year are:

* Front seven on defense - if we can stop the run we have a great shot at winning the west
* TA being able to move the sticks and hit some short passes and limit turnovers
* being able to run the ball effectively and against good defenses - That includes imo the staff not going away from the run if it is not working right away in a game

 

[red rover 70]

Tommy is the player we can't afford to lose.

 

[redfanusa]

The loss at punt returner is much greater than receiver. We have a fairly good group of receivers. He was arguably the best return man in the country last year, something that can't be replaced by someone just because they are quick or fast. He gave Nebraska big swings in the field position battle. Hopefully they will find someone who can do a decent job.

 

[suhnami]

we already had a thread for this...

 

[BornNBredRed]

Mind you guy is a great player and we will sorely miss him on punt returns but I still think the critical areas we need to excel at this year are:

* Front seven on defense - if we can stop the run we have a great shot at winning the west
* TA being able to move the sticks and hit some short passes and limit turnovers
* being able to run the ball effectively and against good defenses - That includes imo the staff not going away from the run if it is not working right away in a game

I disagree 1000%. DPE is the only player that you can basically count on being able to beat the coverage on every play. There are only about 8-10 of those type guys in the NFL. His absence could conservatively mean 5-7 less first downs per game. That translates in points. Tommy is the type of QB who needs a receiver that he knows he can count on. Without that Tommy won't be nearly as successful. Our offense will need to put some points on the board to win several games this year. This roster is going to be a real challenge of Riley's genius. If we win 9+ games, it will be a remarkable coaching performance.

 

[timnsun]

I disagree 1000%. DPE is the only player that you can basically count on being able to beat the coverage on every play. There are only about 8-10 of those type guys in the NFL. His absence could conservatively mean 5-7 less first downs per game. That translates in points. Tommy is the type of QB who needs a receiver that he knows he can count on. Without that Tommy won't be nearly as successful. Our offense will need to put some points on the board to win several games this year. This roster is going to be a real challenge of Riley's genius. If we win 9+ games, it will be a remarkable coaching performance.

Whoa, time to settle down a little... He will definitely be missed, but to say that with him gone tommy doesn't have the type of receiver he can count on is a bit of an overstatement. Weather amp was arguably tommy's second favorite receiver last year and has been tommy's go to guy in practices of late. They have that chemistry you are claiming isn't there.

We have other receivers who can step up as well. If we had to have a true star player go down, I would argue this is the guy we can miss the most. Between DPE, Tommy, Maliek and Banderas, DPE being injured hurts us the least. If tommy went down we would be in trouble. If Collins goes down who would replace him?

I absolutely agree with you that this is gonna hurt, I just believe you are putting too much stock in DPE... There's no doubt in my mind we lose to Iowa last year without him, and the Michigan state game isn't close either without him, but I believe we are better prepared for this kind of injury this year than we would have been a year ago.

Of course, all this is my opinion, which you can freely disagree with.

 

[cubsker]

I felt DPE was our best offensive player. Seems like a pretty big blow to me.

 

[jeans15]

Run the football. We do have a TE as well. Playaction passes.

A few timely turnovers on defense.

 

[dockentwo]

I disagree 1000%. DPE is the only player that you can basically count on being able to beat the coverage on every play. There are only about 8-10 of those type guys in the NFL. His absence could conservatively mean 5-7 less first downs per game. That translates in points. Tommy is the type of QB who needs a receiver that he knows he can count on. Without that Tommy won't be nearly as successful. Our offense will need to put some points on the board to win several games this year. This roster is going to be a real challenge of Riley's genius. If we win 9+ games, it will be a remarkable coaching performance.

This. Sure its enthusiastic; but its right on any given day - and against great teams he will still do it too game swinging levels, and that is rare, as was stated. We have other good receivers, and alternate plays, but these guys stress a D and change the field.

 

[TruHusker]

Mind you guy is a great player and we will sorely miss him on punt returns but I still think the critical areas we need to excel at this year are:

* Front seven on defense - if we can stop the run we have a great shot at winning the west
* TA being able to move the sticks and hit some short passes and limit turnovers
* being able to run the ball effectively and against good defenses - That includes imo the staff not going away from the run if it is not working right away in a game

To be honest, replacing any front line player is always a loss, that is why they are up there in the first place. Make no mistake there is a drop off between DPE and those behind him. The fact he puts pressure on the kicking game to kick out of bounds, towards a sideline or high for coverage are all part of the intangibles we do not see. He has the ability to change field position with every kick and not to mention reception. If you take the total yards that result in teams attempting to cover him and the yards he gets with his athletic ability - you have a bona fide game changer. Lest we forget what we had before him as a returner.

Not to be too critical snob but what you are saying is true for every team in America to be successful. Nebraska is not unlike every other team trying to establish themselves in the elite category. The truth is to be in contention for national honors you have to have the entire package across the board. What were the weaknesses of Ohio State last year? They did not rely on JUST a strong front 7 on D or a QB that could "move the sticks" - they have to do much more than that.

 

[BornNBredRed]

Run the football. We do have a TE as well. Playaction passes.

A few timely turnovers on defense.

I would love to just run the ball, but the fact is that we may not have a true number one back that can carry it 20+ times. Stevenson may end up being that type of back, but not for a while.

 

[Tulsa Tom]

I disagree 1000%. DPE is the only player that you can basically count on being able to beat the coverage on every play. There are only about 8-10 of those type guys in the NFL. His absence could conservatively mean 5-7 less first downs per game. That translates in points. Tommy is the type of QB who needs a receiver that he knows he can count on. Without that Tommy won't be nearly as successful. Our offense will need to put some points on the board to win several games this year. This roster is going to be a real challenge of Riley's genius. If we win 9+ games, it will be a remarkable coaching performance.

He averaged just over one catch a game last year. To say he will conservatively cost us 7 first downs a game is a bit of hyperbole.

 

[BornNBredRed]

Whoa, time to settle down a little... He will definitely be missed, but to say that with him gone tommy doesn't have the type of receiver he can count on is a bit of an overstatement. Weather amp was arguably tommy's second favorite receiver last year and has been tommy's go to guy in practices of late. They have that chemistry you are claiming isn't there.

We have other receivers who can step up as well. If we had to have a true star player go down, I would argue this is the guy we can miss the most. Between DPE, Tommy, Maliek and Banderas, DPE being injured hurts us the least. If tommy went down we would be in trouble. If Collins goes down who would replace him?

I absolutely agree with you that this is gonna hurt, I just believe you are putting too much stock in DPE... There's no doubt in my mind we lose to Iowa last year without him, and the Michigan state game isn't close either without him, but I believe we are better prepared for this kind of injury this year than we would have been a year ago.

Of course, all this is my opinion, which you can freely disagree with.

That is great that Westercamp has chemistry with Tommy. I am not speaking of chemistry. I am speaking of a receiver that the QB can count on to be nearly uncoverable. DPE is that type. He can be counted on to either be open or to win the ball from the defender on a 50/50 ball. That type of receiver is huge for a QB who is not tremendously accurate.

 

[BornNBredRed]

He averaged just over one catch a game last year. To say he will conservatively cost us 7 first downs a game is a bit of hyperbole.

You know me and my hyperbole Tom. He was massively underutilized last year. We all know that.

 

[nothingkevin]

Mind you guy is a great player and we will sorely miss him on punt returns but I still think the critical areas we need to excel at this year are:

* Front seven on defense - if we can stop the run we have a great shot at winning the west
* TA being able to move the sticks and hit some short passes and limit turnovers
* being able to run the ball effectively and against good defenses - That includes imo the staff not going away from the run if it is not working right away in a game

Disagree. Losing demornay is a blow and a critical blow. He is one of the most important players on the team

 

[93sker]

Losing DPE hurts - but our success (or lack thereof) will largely be determined by the OL not DPE. It sucks losing DPE - but give me a vastly improved OL any day of the week and a center who doesn't get pushed into the backfield every other play and erase the false starts, holding etc. and we'll be fine.

 

[timnsun]

Look, we all can agree losing DPE is a huge blow. He changed games last year and had the potential to do that again this year, and if his recovery is speedy, he still can.

Can we weather the loss til he returns? We better hope so. Some of us think we can, while others do not. We will find out soon enough. If he is gone for the season, I could easily see us losing a game he might have won for us, simply because he has the ability to change games. In the meantime, our job as message board posters is to argue how big of a blow this really is.

So far, so good.

 

[Blackshirt316]

We can beat BYU without DPE, not feeling great about Miami.

Miami's D line starts in a two gap and switches to a 1 gap as soon as they see a run play. As soon as they see run they pick their gap and the linebacker fills the opposite. (Sound familiar? Except unlike Bo Miami runs a 3-4.)

To beat the D on run plays we want to make their line hesitate before committing to run and picking a gap while also moving certain players to the second level to meet the primary linebacker 8-10 yards downfield to prevent gap fill.

Last year we went deep early to back them up a bit in the back end and their front 7 was so afraid of Ameer it gave Cotton plenty of time to fire up and not only get to Perryman but engage him before he took a single step. In effect flatlining their entire scheme and letting Ameer be Ameer.

Without Ameer the way we were likely going to maintain that indecision and 10 yard space was with a cosistant dose of jet sweep/jet fake with DPE.

Now without DPE, while we will still likely do similar things it very likely won't have as much impact mentally. Their line will play run quicker and the backers will very likely take 2 if not 3 steps up on the snap and move closer at handoff. Meaning first contact on the 2nd level is 5 yards up instead of 10. Much smaller, less defined holes and cutback gaps for guys that really need them.

 

[hddude55]

He's not a big loss as long as you are OK with looking up at Wisky and probably Minnesota. This team had one guy with elite talent and who knows if he'll return to that form later this year, or ever.

 

[dockentwo]

All you guys who want to run only; you do realize opponents will just go back to loading the box? Read Blackshirt316 or others above to realize its a bit more complicated

 

[timnsun]

Wow, because of one player who gets injured we have become a 6-6 team (reading between the lines, of course). All the other talent on this team amounts to not much...

Seriously, if you guys think these coaches can coach, they will come up with a plan to maximize the talent we have on the field and put us in the best position to win. It almost feels like the thought is we still have Tim beck calling plays, but newsflash, we have coaches who will adjust...

 

[rrthusker]

Mind you guy is a great player and we will sorely miss him on punt returns but I still think the critical areas we need to excel at this year are:

* Front seven on defense - if we can stop the run we have a great shot at winning the west
* TA being able to move the sticks and hit some short passes and limit turnovers
* being able to run the ball effectively and against good defenses - That includes imo the staff not going away from the run if it is not working right away in a game

We now have no player that opposing defenses fear.

 

[dockentwo]

Wow, because of one player who gets injured we have become a 6-6 team (reading between the lines, of course). All the other talent on this team amounts to not much...

Seriously, if you guys think these coaches can coach, they will come up with a plan to maximize the talent we have on the field and put us in the best position to win. It almost feels like the thought is we still have Tim beck calling plays, but newsflash, we have coaches who will adjust...

For sure; thats why they have screen plays and so many other tools that were considered previously underutilized by many here. DPE was a freshman; there is a lot of talent coming up - maybe not AA, but can excel in areas coaches will choose. GBR

 

[jflores]

You know me and my hyperbole Tom. He was massively underutilized last year. We all know that.

He was, but also a relatively unproven offensive asset as well because we didn't see him much. We did lose at least one winnable game at home because of an ill timed turnover on his part. Well, we didn't lose the game solely because of him, but he did pretty well put the brakes on the comeback attempt.

He's a mega hit to the return game with the injury, he's a pretty big hit to a jet sweep type of action this year although we'll probably find someone else to run it at least enough to keep the D honest, and he likely was going to be a pretty good threat on the outside.

It was probably a bit early to think that he could be both Devin Hester and Randy Moss at this point in his career though. He surely has the potential as an every down WR.

Me personally, I'm mourning mostly the loss of the jet sweep home run potential, that was something Riley seemed to indicate he might run the bejeezus out of because we had DPE. We'll be competent on special teams, and most teams get along with good seasons with no more than that. The question for me on a lot of guys on offense (Newby and DPE primarily) was how Riley can get these guys to protect the football. If he can have more luck than Ron Brown and Bo did, I think their ceiling is sky high, if they continue to be dynamic players who drop the ball at bad times, their effectiveness is going to be muted.

 

[hamneggs53]

Mind you guy is a great player and we will sorely miss him on punt returns but I still think the critical areas we need to excel at this year are:

* Front seven on defense - if we can stop the run we have a great shot at winning the west
* TA being able to move the sticks and hit some short passes and limit turnovers
* being able to run the ball effectively and against good defenses - That includes imo the staff not going away from the run if it is not working right away in a game

Don't kid yourself, losing DPE is a HUGE blow to this team.

 

[jflores]

We now have no player that opposing defenses fear.

Indeed. No one proven.

If Newby and Wilbon are the real deal though, and Carter gets more active in the play action game under Riley, we do have guys if properly utilized could be feared.

The TE in particular is an easy area I think for NU to instill fear in a defense. Whether it was someone like Reed who was a little more athletic or someone like Cotton, we always have had luck having at least one guy that was a major thorn in the D's side if we could bring ourselves to utilize them.

Most of the defenses that we play this year, won't be elite, and in the ones that will be elite like say an MSU, they'll likely have a corner that can take DPE mostly away, because they aren't going to be purely out-athleted. I think most defenses though, including elite ones, do have problems matching up with saavy TE game because 9/10 times a TE is going to be a mismatch on whoever is covering. This is true at the NFL level, let alone at the average B1G defense level.

 

[jflores]

Don't kid yourself, losing DPE is a HUGE blow to this team.

Its a huge blow, but I don't know that its a debilitating blow. Certainly the odds of going 11-1 or whatever are down, because we're going to be in a close game at some point, and the lack of DPE might be the difference or maybe him not being totally healthy will limit his effectiveness.

We can still be a pretty darn good football team this year even considering his injury though. For all the "bring your lunch pail to work" humbleness that NU fans exude in the football teams, people are essentially freaking out that the shiny spinner on our team most equivalent to the swagger at "The U" is now gone for a few games. We can still potentially dominate both the LOS. We can still run the ball. We can still stop the run. We can still have a pretty doggone good secondary. We can still throw to half a dozen other guys of varying skillsets. We can still zone read and QB run game. We can still jet sweep. We can still throw the ball deep to the TE.

There's enough talent here to be a good football and win the games we want to win. DPE is going to be majorly missed by me certainly for the few games he's out, but its not like we were about to have a national championship season and now we are staring 6 wins in the face.

 

[jflores]

I would love to just run the ball, but the fact is that we may not have a true number one back that can carry it 20+ times. Stevenson may end up being that type of back, but not for a while.

Running the ball doesn't require that one guy do all the running. Depends on who you have. Lots of teams, including elite teams like Bama, run the ball using 2 backs.

Newby/Wilbon can be a pretty darn 1-2 punch, and that's not considering another handful of guys behind them that can give carries as well.

 

[rrthusker]

Running the ball doesn't require that one guy do all the running. Depends on who you have. Lots of teams, including elite teams like Bama, run the ball using 2 backs.

Newby/Wilbon can be a pretty darn 1-2 punch, and that's not considering another handful of guys behind them that can give carries as well.

Agreed and LSU usually runs 3-4 guys.

 

[jflores]

We can beat BYU without DPE, not feeling great about Miami.

Miami's D line starts in a two gap and switches to a 1 gap as soon as they see a run play. As soon as they see run they pick their gap and the linebacker fills the opposite. (Sound familiar? Except unlike Bo Miami runs a 3-4.)

To beat the D on run plays we want to make their line hesitate before committing to run and picking a gap while also moving certain players to the second level to meet the primary linebacker 8-10 yards downfield to prevent gap fill.
.

I think what Nick Baugh just said on the radio is important. If you want to have these types of conversations, you have to define the terms. Nick Baugh maintains that this is a significant loss, I think pretty much folks like me who aren't losing their mind also agree that this is a significant loss. However there's a difference between significant, and say debilitating.

Yes the O will have to step up a little more, or the D, or some combination of guys on ST need to contribute more, but losing DPE for a handful of games is not really the end of Husker football this year. Playing solid fundamental football (which we all have basically been pining for and declaring pretty much our only dream if Pelini could find a way or the next coach [Riley] could get back to), its all we could ask for. However the loss of DPE can be firestopped, we have at least one other returner who is competent and we have at least a half dozen more receivers to spread the ball around to and a couple of guys who can run jet sweep even if they aren't a the same wiggle level of DPE.

Nick Baugh and others have given out the examples of punts out of bounds and shanks and all other sorts of things that don't require DPE to do anything that were going to be tremendous boons to Husker football, and I don't disagree. However, if the fate of NU's season rests on the opposing team screwing up ST regularly or DPE housing it regularly, what we're really saying is we don't have a very good football team and we're counting on miracles that may or may not be there to save our bacon and get a respectable. Especially considering all the ways we can mitigate the loss of his presence as outline above.

I think there are only two guys (and it may not even be 2) on which the season rests. TA for sure, we apparently don't have another guy on roster that is approaching pushing him even though 2-4 are routinely shuffled as to who is getting the "flavor of the moment" tag from Riley. And possibly Collins, his dynamic presence inside is the key to the whole defense, helping out both the young LB's and a non-existent DE depth chart.

 

[dinglefritz]

Morgan and Moore are making big plays in practice running some of the same plays that DPE did.

 

[timnsun]

Jflorez, you're getting me a lot of likes from me in this thread! Cool

 

[nothingkevin]

Morgan and Moore are making big plays in practice running some of the same plays that DPE did.

I understand but they are no demornay

 

[jflores]

I understand but they are no demornay

If we're getting big plays, it really doesn't matter what name is on the back of the jersey. I for one, would be a *ton* more upset if Stanley Morgan hadn't shown up in a big way as a true frosh.

We seemingly have three capable top receiving threats in Westy, Morgan, and Carter, along with as much run game as we'd care to execute.

 

[jflores]

All you guys who want to run only; you do realize opponents will just go back to loading the box? Read Blackshirt316 or others above to realize its a bit more complicated

Nothing I've seen reported out of Riley seems to indicate that he would be cool with lining up in the I and just pounding the rock with a stacked box, DPE or not. He wants jet sweep action, he wants a screen game, he spent a whole practice if not more throwing deep and telling the media we have to stretch the field (where Reilly and not DPE was getting kudos at that particular point in time).

Considering run pass ratio, we probably won't be chucking it deep a lot. Westy is more of deep threat than people imagine, Carter is too, and both Reilly and Moore have plenty of ability to stretch a field. For some reason, I can't shake the idea that Riley will use Reilly as sort of a white Alvin Harper from 90's Cowboys fame.

 

[BornNBredRed]

Running the ball doesn't require that one guy do all the running. Depends on who you have. Lots of teams, including elite teams like Bama, run the ball using 2 backs.

Newby/Wilbon can be a pretty darn 1-2 punch, and that's not considering another handful of guys behind them that can give carries as well.

Both Newby and particularly Wilbon are unproven. I hope they will be fine. I don't expect them to be above average. That will put alot of pressure on Tommy, who hasn't proven that he can win games on his own. Hopefully Tommy has evolved into a QB who can win games with his skills. Without Ameer, Tommy will need to be more than a game manager this year for us to be truly successful. It is equally important that the offensive line plays very well. One third of Ameer's runs started with making tacklers miss 3 yards deep in the backfield. That can't be the case this year.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Don't kid yourself, losing DPE is a HUGE blow to this team.

Pelini fans will downgrade any loss as no big deal, and I bet a certain group of rejects are celebrating the injury.

 

[timnsun]

Pelini fans will downgrade any loss as no big deal, and I bet a certain group of rejects are celebrating the injury.

Painting with a pretty broad brush there aren't you HTO? I am 1000% behind Riley and so glad Bo is gone, but also think Riley and coaches can overcome this far better than our previous coaching staff.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your words here, and if so, I apologize. Personally, I think this loss is a big deal but not insurmountable.

 

[omnione]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your words here, and if so, I apologize. Personally, I think this loss is a big deal but not insurmountable.

Not HTO, but what I think he was saying that Bolievers want to downplay any losses like DPE now to avoid people using the loss as an excuse after a less-than stellar season. He thinks a certain group of rejects are celebrating because the loss of DPE puts the rejects one step closer to unleashing a barrage of "I told you sos" after a bad season.

 

[timnsun]

Not HTO, but what I think he was saying that Bolievers want to downplay any losses like DPE now to avoid people using the loss as an excuse after a less-than stellar season. He thinks a certain group of rejects are celebrating because the loss of DPE puts the rejects one step closer to unleashing a barrage of "I told you sos" after a bad season.

You're probably right, thanks for clarifying... Those who will use it that way won't be able to contain themselves should we struggle this season.