Keeping Frost is the bigger gamble.

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Our recruiting is bottoming out. Our coaches can't overcome our abysmal record and performance in a recruit's living rooms. These results have given opposing teams recruiting layups.

On top of that, we have a lot of talent that could start on quality programs. If we think there isn't going to be an exodus of transfers...this time with players we can't argue aren't starter quality, we are lying to ourselves.

It is becoming clear why no Blue Blood program keeps a coach for 3 losing seasons let alone more. It can cause serious long term damage and we can start to see signs of that.

At this point, it is clear that hiring a new coach to stave off the transfers and having a clean bill for recruiting is a far safer bet for the future of the program.

Keeping Frost is a bigger gamble. A very dangerous gamble.

 

[WHCSC]

Noted

 

[headcard]

While to do not agree with the mass exodus of transfers theory (I think there will be very few contributors leave if the staff stays), I agree that keeping the staff may be a bigger gamble than firing them. We are starring down the barrel of a rough class this year and could be setting ourselves up for another next year. If you keep the staff and they don't perform and turn around recruiting next year, you have dug a deep hole. Trev has some very tough decisions to make.

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

While to do not agree with the mass exodus of transfers theory (I think there will be very few contributors leave if the staff stays), I agree that keeping the staff may be a bigger gamble than firing them. We are starring down the barrel of a rough class this year and could be setting ourselves up for another next year. If you keep the staff and they don't perform and turn around recruiting next year, you have dug a deep hole. Trev has some very tough decisions to make.

the first step decision is pretty easy IMO, getting the right next coach will be more important for Trev. and I think he doesn't take a lot of unproven risk with smaller league coaches or uncertain coordinators (unless it's Joe Brady

 

[JOHNNY N]

Our recruiting is bottoming out. Our coaches can't overcome our abysmal record and performance in a recruit's living rooms. These results have given opposing teams recruiting layups.

On top of that, we have a lot of talent that could start on quality programs. If we think there isn't going to be an exodus of transfers...this time with players we can't argue aren't starter quality, we are lying to ourselves.

It is becoming clear why no Blue Blood program keeps a coach for 3 losing seasons let alone more. It can cause serious long term damage and we can start to see signs of that.

At this point, it is clear that hiring a new coach to stave off the transfers and having a clean bill for recruiting is a far safer bet for the future of the program.

Keeping Frost is a bigger gamble. A very dangerous gamble.

Lofl @ dangerous gamble. Firing Frost is a complete reset either way. I'm not against firing Frost.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

I don't know. all of our "highly rated" recruiting classes busted immediately & largely make up this year's losing team.

maybe they're learning to find their guys? people here always complain about losing to lower rated recruiting classes.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Lofl @ dangerous gamble. Firing Frost is a complete reset either way. I'm not against firing Frost.

This is not true. All the signs are pointing to an incredibly poor recruiting class and anyone who doesn't think there will be some critical transfers are not living in reality.

If we keep Frost and he fails, we will have left the next coach in worse shape than what Frost walked into.

To everyone else. We can cover our ears and stamp our feet all day to block out the very real signs that keeping Frost is not going to end well, but that doesn't make the problems go away.

I hear "Well, he needs to change his coaching staff" a lot. What an asinine thing to say. If Frost didn't recognize the issues in the first four years and needs the AD to step in to make changes, then we have a much bigger problem than just switching out assistants.

This isn't 2002 where Solich "only" won 7 games after a national title appearance. This is 4 years of unheard statistically bad performance at a blue blood program.

Please separate your love of Frost as a person and a player from Frost the coach. If we give him more years and he gets 6 wins next year and goes back to losing seasons, we will have destroyed his chance to ever be a HC again.

 

[JOHNNY N]

Please separate your love of Frost as a person and a player from Frost the coach

Please read where I wrote "I'm not against firing frost"

Keeping him isn't a "dangerous" gamble.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Please read where I wrote "I'm not against firing frost"

Keeping him isn't a "dangerous" gamble.

Yes it is.

You cannot separate the bottoming out of recruiting, the numerous signs that he will not improve, the likelihood of current contributors or future contributors leaving and not come to the conclusion that if Frost fails...and all statistics and history point to him failing, but if Frost fails, we will be worse off than we were when we hired him.

 

[redwine65]

frost will be here next year.
the main issues will be as follows:
1. getting qb's that can "consistently"(key word) run a left coast offence.
2. kicker's that can, kick
3. then just filling in where need be

I was against hiring frost to start with, because I wanted a min 5 year hc.
my wisdom was ignored, and now we pay the cost of on the job training.
I suggest we not run in panic mode to the coaching carousel at this juncture.

on a side note I suggest we go ahead and use a rb or wr (with good hands, to make returns.)
who we have now at least fields the ball properly but, the next step is gaining yards

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

frost will be here next year.
the main issues will be as follows:
1. getting qb's that can "consistently"(key word) run a left coast offence.
2. kicker's that can, kick
3. then just filling in where need be

I am not saying whether he will or won't be here. I am saying he shouldn't be here.

Having to force him to making coaching changes for year 5 for issues that were there for years 1-4 is embarrassing and there is no evidence pointing to a blue blood turning it around after 3 years. Let alone 4 or 5.

 

[JOHNNY N]

Yes it is.

You cannot separate the bottoming out of recruiting, the numerous signs that he will not improve, the likelihood of current contributors or future contributors leaving and not come to the conclusion that if Frost fails...and all statistics and history point to him failing, but if Frost fails, we will be worse off than we were when we hired him.

It just isn't. It's one more recruiting. A quality hire can fix that through the transfer portal.

Too much drama.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

It just isn't. It's one more recruiting. A quality hire can fix that through the transfer portal.

Too much drama.

Do you agree that if Frost stays and fails, a "quality new hire" will have more holes to fill than Frost did when he came here?

The transfer portal isn't a magic wand. We will be competing with other schools for the transfers. What reputation will we have if we give Frost another year and it fails? You will need more than a quality new hire.

It is what it is.

 

[redwine65]

I am not saying whether he will or won't be here. I am saying he shouldn't be here.

Having to force him to making coaching changes for year 5 for issues that were there for years 1-4 is embarrassing and there is no evidence pointing to a blue blood turning it around after 3 years. Let alone 4 or 5.

I edited my post for more clarification/guidance on the matter.

 

[JOHNNY N]

The transfer portal isn't a magic wand

Mel Tucker disagrees.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Mel Tucker disagrees.

I think we will be learning as time goes on that Mel Tucker is something special.

I see what you are saying but if you gamble on keeping Frost, then you are counting on gambling on a home run hire.

I just don't see how anyone could say keeping Frost is a safe bet...not matter who he hires in the off-season.

Agree to disagree.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

I think we will be learning as time goes on that Mel Tucker is something special.

I see what you are saying but if you gamble on keeping Frost, then you are counting on gambling on a home run hire.

I just don't see how anyone could say keeping Frost is a safe bet...not matter who he hires in the off-season.

Agree to disagree.

Neither keeping him nor replacing him is a safe bet.

 

[JOHNNY N]

I think we will be learning as time goes on that Mel Tucker is something special.

I see what you are saying but if you gamble on keeping Frost, then you are counting on gambling on a home run hire.

I just don't see how anyone could say keeping Frost is a safe bet...not matter who he hires in the off-season.

Agree to disagree.

I did not make 1 argument for or against firing frost. I only said that giving him that 5th year isn't dangerous. It's just what it is, another year. Whoever comes next is going to have many holes to fill.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Neither keeping him nor replacing him is a safe bet.

I agree. This is very true. If there were safe bets in the world, we'd all be retired by the age of 40.

After looking at historical turnarounds, using past behavior/results to predict future behavior/results, looking at our recruiting success compared to prior years, Frost's change in demeanor, reviewing his resume before we hired him, his decision to not change up his staff after years 2 or 3, how we statistically compare to every other program that has a coach for at least 40 games, looking at where this team will be talent wise with the worsening recruiting, and various other things I have looked at and are not coming to me right now...

I feel going with someone else is a much safer bet.

 

[mgbreis]

Whoever OP is they must be using their burner ID today. No posts since 2017 and you suddenly roll in here with hot takes left and right today that have been hashed and re-hashed for weeks (months) already. Where have you been OP?

 

[HuskerAlum92]

I don’t think Frost will ever be a great head coach. It would take a lot of improvement at this point for him to rise to the level average, and that improvement isn’t guaranteed no matter how hard ADTA grips his hand.

The next guy could as bad or worse than Frost, but it’s not likely if we have a thoughtful search process.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Whoever OP is they must be using their burner ID today. No posts since 2017 and you suddenly roll in here with hot takes left and right today that have been hashed and re-hashed for weeks (months) already. Where have you been OP?

This is my only account in rivals. I've been here reading. Just not posting. Cheers.

 

[mgbreis]

This is my only account in rivals. I've been here reading. Just not posting. Cheers.

Welcome to the party.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Please point me to the keg immediately then.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

I agree. This is very true. If there were safe bets in the world, we'd all be retired by the age of 40.

After looking at historical turnarounds, using past behavior/results to predict future behavior/results, looking at our recruiting success compared to prior years, Frost's change in demeanor, reviewing his resume before we hired him, his decision to not change up his staff after years 2 or 3, how we statistically compare to every other program that has a coach for at least 40 games, looking at where this team will be talent wise with the worsening recruiting, and various other things I have looked at and are not coming to me right now...

I feel going with someone else is a much safer bet.

if you're taking our recruiting "success" of years past at face value, I'm sad to say you're misinformed

after all the chips fell, I'd bet our last 3 classes wound up somewhere closer to 50th than top 20.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

if you're taking our recruiting "success" of years past at face value, I'm sad to say you're misinformed

after all the chips fell, I'd bet our last 3 classes wound up somewhere closer to 50th than top 20.

That's a very good point and true. I'm coming more from the angle of "We are going to finish much worse than any prior years under Frost."

If the chips fell that way the last 3 classes, I have no reason they will fall differently, especially if this class finishes much worse to start. All signs are pointing to that.

 

[John_J_Rambo]

That's a very good point and true. I'm coming more from the angle of "We are going to finish much worse than any prior years under Frost."

If the chips fell that way the last 3 classes, I have no reason they will fall differently, especially if this class finishes much worse to start. All signs are pointing to that.

Frost & Co have always been slow starters and strong finishers in recruiting.

I'm not really worried at all about the incoming class. it'll be similar to years' past, and likely suffer less turnover.

frankly, I don't lend much credence to all the dweebs who run the ranking sites, especially when it comes to 3*/4* kids. they know just as much as you and I when it comes to projecting their impact at the college level, which is to say next to nothing.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

Frost & Co have always been slow starters and strong finishers in recruiting.

I'm not really worried at all about the incoming class. it'll be similar to years' past, and likely suffer less turnover.

frankly, I don't lend much credence to all the dweebs who run the ranking sites, especially when it comes to 3*/4* kids. they know just as much as you and I when it comes to projecting their impact at the college level, which is to say next to nothing.

I can't get in an argument with guy who has an avatar and pic from First Blood, one of my favorite movies of all time.

All I can say is, I don't think there is going to be a strong finish.

In this argument you are Rambo and I am Colonel Trautman.

 

[leodisflowers]

Yes it is.

You cannot separate the bottoming out of recruiting, the numerous signs that he will not improve, the likelihood of current contributors or future contributors leaving and not come to the conclusion that if Frost fails...and all statistics and history point to him failing, but if Frost fails, we will be worse off than we were when we hired him.

We are bottoming out no matter what. When you fire a coach, you are literally setting your program back a minimum of at least a year and usually it is more 2-4 years. That's just how things work. The next coach will come in and say what every coach does. I've got to get my guys in here and see what else we are working with. When you decide to can a coach, you can basically expect not to do much for 3 years unless you get a super stud coach and pair that with a decent roster returning.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

We are bottoming out no matter what. When you fire a coach, you are literally setting your program back a minimum of at least a year and usually it is more 2-4 years. That's just how things work. The next coach will come in and say what every coach does. I've got to get my guys in here and see what else we are working with. When you decide to can a coach, you can basically expect not to do much for 3 years unless you get a super stud coach and pair that with a decent roster returning.

But isn't it a helluva a thing to expect a returning coach's class to be as bad as a hired coach's first class?

 

[John_J_Rambo]

our 2023 class sits at #10 in the country as of this posting

made up of 100% 4-stars

 

[BuckysBoys1]

This is not true. All the signs are pointing to an incredibly poor recruiting class and anyone who doesn't think there will be some critical transfers are not living in reality.

If we keep Frost and he fails, we will have left the next coach in worse shape than what Frost walked into.

To everyone else. We can cover our ears and stamp our feet all day to block out the very real signs that keeping Frost is not going to end well, but that doesn't make the problems go away.

I hear "Well, he needs to change his coaching staff" a lot. What an asinine thing to say. If Frost didn't recognize the issues in the first four years and needs the AD to step in to make changes, then we have a much bigger problem than just switching out assistants.

This isn't 2002 where Solich "only" won 7 games after a national title appearance. This is 4 years of unheard of statistically at a blue blood program.

Please separate your love of Frost as a person and a player from Frost the coach. If we give him more years and he gets 6 wins next year and goes back to losing seasons, we will have destroyed his chance to ever be a HC again.

Well the highly rated recruiting classes have been absolute failures! Maybe a bunch of 3 stars that actually love NU will be the ones to turn this around.

 

[Mystery Big Red Man]

our 2023 class sits at #10 in the country as of this posting

made up of 100% 4-stars

I appreciate your optimism but I think that will change drastically with the product we keep putting on the field.

 

[redwine65]

the 95 huskers were ranked the 26th recruiting class

 

[sparky62]

Please read where I wrote "I'm not against firing frost"

Keeping him isn't a "dangerous" gamble.

Completely disagree.

 

[JOHNNY N]

Completely disagree.

Cool

 

[oldjar07]

While to do not agree with the mass exodus of transfers theory (I think there will be very few contributors leave if the staff stays), I agree that keeping the staff may be a bigger gamble than firing them. We are starring down the barrel of a rough class this year and could be setting ourselves up for another next year. If you keep the staff and they don't perform and turn around recruiting next year, you have dug a deep hole. Trev has some very tough decisions to make.

Couldn't be an easier decision if Frost has yet another losing season. This is the most talent a Frost team is ever going to have. If he can't pull off a .500 season with that, I expect Trev will be packing Frost’s bags for him.

 

[oldjar07]

We are bottoming out no matter what. When you fire a coach, you are literally setting your program back a minimum of at least a year and usually it is more 2-4 years. That's just how things work. The next coach will come in and say what every coach does. I've got to get my guys in here and see what else we are working with. When you decide to can a coach, you can basically expect not to do much for 3 years unless you get a super stud coach and pair that with a decent roster returning.

This is false. Same thing was said when Pelini took over and people saying it would take years to turn the team, and especially the defense around. His first year he posted a 9-4 record and the next year we had the very best defense in the nation. Things can turn around very quickly with good coaching.

 

[ivan brunetti]

Yes it is.

You cannot separate the bottoming out of recruiting, the numerous signs that he will not improve, the likelihood of current contributors or future contributors leaving and not come to the conclusion that if Frost fails...and all statistics and history point to him failing, but if Frost fails, we will be worse off than we were when we hired him.

Frost has done worse than Riley while being on the job longer than Riley. I don't see how a case could be made that Nebraska is NOT worse off than when Frost was first hired.

 

[redwine65]

Frost has done worse than Riley while being on the job longer than Riley. I don't see how a case could be made that Nebraska is NOT worse off than when Frost was first hired.

we don't get blown out as much