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dinglefritz

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His players were skipping classes and failing drug tests and he was doing nothing about it. But he had his cell phone policy though. :rolleyes:

Gill was an abject failure there, Weis was even worse. Beatty was probably the worst D1 hire in the history of the sport. The whole Zenger/BLG/Bowen deal was weird stuff. Lots of funny stuff going on there with a few of the big money boosters.
Gill wasn't there long enough to be judged an "abject failure". He succeeded every where else he's gone. He would have succeeded at KU if not run off.
 

dinglefritz

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KU went the easy way in looking for relevance. Hire a big brand name. They need to pay attention to Iowa State and find the 30-something up and comer to build and develop from the ground up. Their goal should be immediate respectability. Then build from their. They can't even build a foundation.
one thing the Miles hire did was to open some doors with recruits. Their roster looks better as long as this last class he brought in doesn't bolt. Promoting their new OC to head coach might not be the dumbest thing. Otherwise Willie Fritz would be a home run hire for them.
 
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one thing the Miles hire did was to open some doors with recruits. Their roster looks better as long as this last class he brought in doesn't bolt. Promoting their new OC to head coach might not be the dumbest thing. Otherwise Willie Fritz would be a home run hire for them.

The new OC has no relationship with current players (he's barely been there 2 weeks). They'd be better off naming one of their other assistants (Josh Eargle or Emmett Jones) as interim HC until they sort it all out. Those guys are largely responsible for their improved recruiting class (ranked 4th in B12 for 2021).
 
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Interesting info on Gill that I am just finding out. Gill left Arkansas and was hired back at Liberty for upper level vice president job for diversity. Another guy, alum and ex-NFL was hired also for diversity. Both moved down there and within four months....both were gone. That was about the same time the Falwell stuff was going on. The other guy was fired....the article didn't say if Turner was fired too or just resigned.

Anyone know where Turner is now?
 

scarletred

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Interesting info on Gill that I am just finding out. Gill left Arkansas and was hired back at Liberty for upper level vice president job for diversity. Another guy, alum and ex-NFL was hired also for diversity. Both moved down there and within four months....both were gone. That was about the same time the Falwell stuff was going on. The other guy was fired....the article didn't say if Turner was fired too or just resigned.

Anyone know where Turner is now?

Executive director of student athlete and staff development at Arkansas..
 
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Executive director of student athlete and staff development at Arkansas..
Arkansas hired him back after this?

Aug 4, 2020 — Gill had recently served as executive director of student-athlete and staff development at the University of Arkansas. Gill's wife, Gayle, will also assist with Liberty's diversity and inclusion efforts.
 
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dinglefritz

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The new OC has no relationship with current players (he's barely been there 2 weeks). They'd be better off naming one of their other assistants (Josh Eargle or Emmett Jones) as interim HC until they sort it all out. Those guys are largely responsible for their improved recruiting class (ranked 4th in B12 for 2021).
He is new BUT he has relevant head coaching experience. IF you bring in a new outside guy he undoubtedly will want to clean house. Hell they may have already started spring football. So you would have Miles's buyout plus all of the other coaches the new guy cans and then you don't have the new staff in place for spring football. The timing of this is horrible. The only way I could see bringing in a new guy work is IF he was willing to work this year with the assistants already on staff. Firing your whole staff in the spring would be disastrous for this season at least. I can only imagine that the best players from their most recent class would jump ship. Can I say "jump ship" or is that racist?
 

dinglefritz

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Arkansas hired him back after this?

Aug 4, 2020 — Gill had recently served as executive director of student-athlete and staff development at the University of Arkansas. Gill's wife, Gayle, will also assist with Liberty's diversity and inclusion efforts.
Gill is a really good dude and good man to have associated with your program. IMO, Tom screwed up when he chose Pelini over Gill. Gill's schtick would have worked at NU. Dabo used the same messaging when he was re-building Clemson. Seems to have worked pretty well at Buffalo and Liberty as well.
 

Charlie Marlow

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Gill wasn't there long enough to be judged an "abject failure". He succeeded every where else he's gone. He would have succeeded at KU if not run off.
He was fired after only two years there for more than just the win-loss record. The abject failure had more to do with the mismanagement of the off-the-field stuff. If half your team isn't going to class, you aren't ever going to have the roster needed to be successful. Intervention was needed since he wasn't doing his job.
 

scarletred

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Gill is a really good dude and good man to have associated with your program. IMO, Tom screwed up when he chose Pelini over Gill. Gill's schtick would have worked at NU. Dabo used the same messaging when he was re-building Clemson. Seems to have worked pretty well at Buffalo and Liberty as well.

I’m not so sure Gill would have been a better hire here..

So I’m not agreeing with you that TO screwed up hiring him..
We needed a defensive coach at the time our offense was pretty good..
 

dinglefritz

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I’m not so sure Gill would have been a better hire here..

So I’m not agreeing with you that TO screwed up hiring him..
We needed a defensive coach at the time our offense was pretty good..
The whole defensive minded head coach was "coach speak" excuse for not hiring the guy he had served as best man for. Gill would have hired good defensive coaches and Tom knows it. Tom hired Pelini because that's who the Hawks wanted. I've heard a rumor from a booster of substance about why Tom didn't hire Gill and it had nothing to do with his coaching ability.
 
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scarletred

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The whole defensive minded head coach was "coach speak" excuse for not hiring the guy he had served as best man for. Gill would have hired good defensive coaches and Tom knows it. Tom hired Pelini because that's who the Hawks wanted. I've heard a rumor from a booster of substance about why Tom didn't hire Gill and it had nothing to do with his coaching ability.

I’m not saying Gill didn’t have any coaching ability compared to Pelini..

Who did Gill hire at KU for defensive coordinator? (Carl Torbush ) who .. not very good at all.

Can’t believe one big booster had that much say over TO wanting Pelini.
 
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dinglefritz

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He was fired after only two years there for more than just the win-loss record. The abject failure had more to do with the mismanagement of the off-the-field stuff. If half your team isn't going to class, you aren't ever going to have the roster needed to be successful. Intervention was needed since he wasn't doing his job.
Those were problems he inherited and he was addressing them. He got 2 years to try to clean up the crap that he took over at KU. Wasn't it year 2 that Frost had 2 players dismissed because of rape charges? We're willing to give Frost 5-7 years to fix NU and Gill got 2 at KU. He follows Jesus but even Jesus couldn't have fixed the problems in the KU football program in 2 years.

I'm not sure that the powers that be at KU understood when they hired Gill that they were hiring a Christian man who wasn't going to leave that at home. Weiss fit more what the boosters wanted. In hindsight they should have saved their money and kept Gill. He would have made that mess better.
 

phoenix4nu

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I’m not so sure Gill would have been a better hire here..

So I’m not agreeing with you that TO screwed up hiring him..
We needed a defensive coach at the time our offense was pretty good..
That changed pretty quickly under Pelini.
 

Charlie Marlow

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Those were problems he inherited and he was addressing them. He got 2 years to try to clean up the crap that he took over at KU. Wasn't it year 2 that Frost had 2 players dismissed because of rape charges? We're willing to give Frost 5-7 years to fix NU and Gill got 2 at KU. He follows Jesus but even Jesus couldn't have fixed the problems in the KU football program in 2 years.

I'm not sure that the powers that be at KU understood when they hired Gill that they were hiring a Christian man who wasn't going to leave that at home. Weiss fit more what the boosters wanted. In hindsight they should have saved their money and kept Gill. He would have made that mess better.
You know nothing about the situation or what the boosters wanted. You should stop making things up.
 

dinglefritz

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I’m not saying Gill didn’t have any coaching ability compared to Pelini..

Who did Gill hire at KU for defensive coordinator? Apparently not very good..

Can’t believe one big booster had that much say over TO wanting Gill
I don't think you understand how big the checks were that the Hawks were writing to NU. I'll remind you that there are TWO HUGE structures on campus with their names on it. There was more to the decision than that but wanting a defensive minded head coach really wasn't a major factor. Tom justified it that way but there was more to it than that. That's all I'm going to say because I don't want to start a sh## storm over something that happened over a decade ago. Water under the bridge. IMO Tom did what he thought would keep the money happy and to some degree protect Turner. I think he made a bad decision. I think Gill would have done well at NU. JMO.
 

scarletred

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I don't think you understand how big the checks were that the Hawks were writing to NU. I'll remind you that there are TWO HUGE structures on campus with their names on it. There was more to the decision than that but wanting a defensive minded head coach really wasn't a major factor. Tom justified it that way but there was more to it than that. That's all I'm going to say because I don't want to start a sh## storm over something that happened over a decade ago. Water under the bridge. IMO Tom did what he thought would keep the money happy and to some degree protect Turner. I think he made a bad decision. I think Gill would have done well at NU. JMO.

Let’s agree to disagree on that, I researched his staff at KU and they would not have been very successful...
Some say the say thing about SF staff now and I have a few assistance I’m not convinced their worth a $&it too..
 

dinglefritz

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You know nothing about the situation or what the boosters wanted. You should stop making things up.
It's pretty clear. They fired Gill and hired Weiss. The word at the time was the boosters ponied up the money to buy out Gill and they wanted Weiss. There's nothing to be made up there. It's history.
 

dinglefritz

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Let’s agree to disagree on that, I researched his staff at KU and they would not have been very successful...
Some say the say thing about SF staff now and I have a few assistance I’m not convinced their worth a $&it too..
Gill took one of the worst programs in college football (Buffalo) and took them to their first winning season in 12 years. After he left they fell back in to their old ways until they hired Leipold. He did it with a bunch of no name assistants. Yet you are sure IF he had been given more time to recruit players who fit his culture that he wouldn't have been able to get KU bowl eligible? Look at what has happened there since they fired him. I find it very hard to believe that Gill wouldn't have done a better job than ALL of the clowns that have followed him. Miles had a shot maybe to help them. Now he's gone.
 
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Charlie Marlow

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It's pretty clear. They fired Gill and hired Weiss. The word at the time was the boosters ponied up the money to buy out Gill and they wanted Weiss. There's nothing to be made up there. It's history.
They hated Weiss. He was 100% Zenger's guy. Gill's problems there were all his own and not inherited. Him being a man of Jesus actually plays well to that audience fwiw. But cratering the roster and having zero discipline (other than no cell phones or girls over) is what did him in. You lose scholarships if you can't maintain minimum academic standards. Weis did fix that mess, but that's about all he did right.
 
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scarletred

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Gill took one of the worst programs in college football (Buffalo) and took them to their first winning season in 12 years. After he left they fell back in to their old ways until they hired Leipold. He did it with a bunch of no name assistants. Yet you are sure IF he had been given more time to recruit players who fit his culture that he wouldn't have been able to get KU bowl eligible? Look at what has happened there since they fired him. I find it very hard to believe that Gill wouldn't have done a better job than ALL of the clowns that have followed him. Miles had a shot maybe to help them. Now he's gone.

Miss understanding me.. i don’t think he would have done BETTER (.713) than Bo Pelini.. Not saying if he had more time at KU that they wouldn’t have made it to a bowl game..
 

Charlie Marlow

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I’m not saying Gill didn’t have any coaching ability compared to Pelini..

Who did Gill hire at KU for defensive coordinator? (Carl Torbush ) who .. not very good at all.

Can’t believe one big booster had that much say over TO wanting Pelini.
I'm a little undecided about Torbush. He has had some success here and there. And he really only had one year at KU before he had to retire due to cancer just before his second season. His assistant that took over was way in over his head.
 
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dinglefritz

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They hated Weiss. He was 100% Zenger's guy. Gill's problems there were all his own and not inherited. Him being a man of Jesus actually plays well to that audience fwiw. But cratering the roster and having zero discipline (other than no cell phones or girls over) is what did him in. You lose scholarships if you can't maintain minimum academic standards. Weis did fix that mess, but that's about all he did right.
Good heavens. There were literally gang fights going on between guys Gill didn't recruit and members of the basketball team. Those were all "Gill's problems"? I understand that you ridicule every person on this board who makes any statements of faith but your distain for Turner Gill is ridiculous. Gill took over a program that ALREADY had all of those issues and his only way out of it was to try to recruit his way out of it. The first class is almost always a lost cause when you hire a coach late. How the F do you change the culture and classroom performance of a bunch of gang bangers in less than 2 years and one full recruiting class of your own doing? I'm sure you've got the answers.
 

Charlie Marlow

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I understand that you ridicule every person on this board who makes any statements of faith but your distain for Turner Gill is ridiculous.

When have I ever ridiculed anyone for their faith? I don't have 'distain' for Gill either. I'm just telling you what was actually going on there at that time and why he was never going to be successful there.
 
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They hated Weiss. He was 100% Zenger's guy. Gill's problems there were all his own and not inherited. Him being a man of Jesus actually plays well to that audience fwiw. But cratering the roster and having zero discipline (other than no cell phones or girls over) is what did him in. You lose scholarships if you can't maintain minimum academic standards. Weis did fix that mess, but that's about all he did right.

This is 100% true. I'm a KU donor and (was) a season ticket holder (also an NU donor and ticket holder). Zenger hired a "name" he thought would be successful and cement his legacy. Weiss ended up booting a ton of players in trying to clean up what Turner had left...but he wasn't willing to do the work needed to be successful. KU was just a money grab for him.

I was very excited when Turner was hired. But very disappointed with how he handled those teams. And happy when he was fired.
 
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dinglefritz

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This is 100% true. I'm a KU donor and (was) a season ticket holder (also an NU donor and ticket holder). Zenger hired a "name" he thought would be successful and cement his legacy. Weiss ended up booting a ton of players in trying to clean up what Turner had left...but he wasn't willing to do the work needed to be successful. KU was just a money grab for him.

I was very excited when Turner was hired. But very disappointed with how he handled those teams. And happy when he was fired.
Gill got less than 2 years to try to turn that thing around. What did firing Gill accomplish? Nothing. Gill won at Buffalo. If you can win at Buffalo you can win 6 at KU. He would have fixed the problems if given more time. JMO. It isn't provable. Gill's Liberty teams were co-champs in their conference 4 times when he coached at Liberty after leaving KU.. He won his conference and got Buffalo to a bowl game after taking over that team that had losing seasons for 12 years and IF I remember correctly hadn't won a game for 2 years. The guy could coach.
 

phoenix4nu

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Gill got less than 2 years to try to turn that thing around. What did firing Gill accomplish? Nothing. Gill won at Buffalo. If you can win at Buffalo you can win 6 at KU. He would have fixed the problems if given more time. JMO. It isn't provable. Gill's Liberty teams were co-champs in their conference 4 times when he coached at Liberty after leaving KU.. He won his conference and got Buffalo to a bowl game after taking over that team that had losing seasons for 12 years and IF I remember correctly hadn't won a game for 2 years. The guy could coach.
It seems that there's a difference between coaching at non-P5 schools and P5 schools. For whatever reason, many successful non-P5 coaches have failed at P5 schools.
 

ADV1

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one thing the Miles hire did was to open some doors with recruits. Their roster looks better as long as this last class he brought in doesn't bolt. Promoting their new OC to head coach might not be the dumbest thing. Otherwise Willie Fritz would be a home run hire for them.

Seeing as how close they are is there anyone down at KU that Frost & Co should be speaking too that might be interested in making a move? I hate being that guy but the world has changed and everything seems on the table with the portal.... I seem to remember an OL that we wanted chose them over NU not all that long ago... As many guys as we've had bail this appears like an opportunity to snag some good local talent?
 

dinglefritz

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Seeing as how close they are is there anyone down at KU that Frost & Co should be speaking too that might be interested in making a move? I hate being that guy but the world has changed and everything seems on the table with the portal.... I seem to remember an OL that we wanted chose them over NU not all that long ago... As many guys as we've had bail this appears like an opportunity to snag some good local talent?
I don't think there could be anybody on their roster we would want unless they've got a proven edge rusher or QB. Just guessing.
 

dinglefritz

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It seems that there's a difference between coaching at non-P5 schools and P5 schools. For whatever reason, many successful non-P5 coaches have failed at P5 schools.
THAT is true for the most part. It is also fact that Gill walked in to an absolutely horrible situation culture and talent wise and he wasn't even given a full 2 years to fix it. Yes it was still a mess when he was fired but damn he never really had a chance to bring in higher character guys. That is more than a 2 year rebuild. I guess that's the win now problem for coaches. I think Frost in some ways made the same mistake by reaching to fill roster holes that first year. Almost all of those guys are going already.

People can bitch about Frost's record but IMO he's on the right track with the guys he's recruiting now. IF for some reason he fails to win enough games over the next couple of years and gets canned I think the next guy would take over a better situation to start from. JMO. We ALL should be openly cheerleading him to succeed because if he doesn't we'll lose another year of recruiting. That hasn't worked out well for many teams other than OU who was loaded with talent for Stoops and got lucky with a JUCO QB.
 
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250vertical

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This is 100% true. I'm a KU donor and (was) a season ticket holder (also an NU donor and ticket holder). Zenger hired a "name" he thought would be successful and cement his legacy. Weiss ended up booting a ton of players in trying to clean up what Turner had left...but he wasn't willing to do the work needed to be successful. KU was just a money grab for him.

I was very excited when Turner was hired. But very disappointed with how he handled those teams. And happy when he was fired.
I am a KU grad and stay close to the program. Both of you (regoratsginrom and charlie Morrow) are 100% spot on regarding Gill and Weiss. Turner Gill is still a good man. Not a good P-5 HC (understatement). Weiss shot 29 players when he arrived. Eight were upper-class offensive lineman and this proved to be the most deadly mistake, one we are still paying for. If one individual can be pointed to as the coach who killed the program, it is Charlie Weiss. When David B. arrived at KU, there were 41 scholarship players on the roster, and probably only a dozen of them belonged on the field against Big 12 competition. Miles has two classes (48 players) of high school kids (no juco's) generally mid to high range 3 stars, including the no. 1 recruit in Kansas, a running back named Neal. He had a great start - for KU - on the 2022 class. The key is to get them to Lawrence and the KU campus. If there is ever a coach who can win consistently 6 to 7 games a year at KU we will erect a statue. Our national brand is obviously basketball. Allen Field House was voted the number one venue in all sports in America by USA Today - Fenway and Wrigley were two and three. Ironically, the paper whose reporter dug up the LSU crap that shot Miles (and KU) in the ass. What will be interesting will be to see if the AD, Jeff Long, survives this. His scheduling of Missouri in FB, and his handling of the Beaty firing did not go over well.
 

dinglefritz

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I am a KU grad and stay close to the program. Both of you (regoratsginrom and charlie Morrow) are 100% spot on regarding Gill and Weiss. Turner Gill is still a good man. Not a good P-5 HC (understatement). Weiss shot 29 players when he arrived. Eight were upper-class offensive lineman and this proved to be the most deadly mistake, one we are still paying for. If one individual can be pointed to as the coach who killed the program, it is Charlie Weiss. When David B. arrived at KU, there were 41 scholarship players on the roster, and probably only a dozen of them belonged on the field against Big 12 competition. Miles has two classes (48 players) of high school kids (no juco's) generally mid to high range 3 stars, including the no. 1 recruit in Kansas, a running back named Neal. He had a great start - for KU - on the 2022 class. The key is to get them to Lawrence and the KU campus. If there is ever a coach who can win consistently 6 to 7 games a year at KU we will erect a statue. Our national brand is obviously basketball. Allen Field House was voted the number one venue in all sports in America by USA Today - Fenway and Wrigley were two and three. Ironically, the paper whose reporter dug up the LSU crap that shot Miles (and KU) in the ass. What will be interesting will be to see if the AD, Jeff Long, survives this. His scheduling of Missouri in FB, and his handling of the Beaty firing did not go over well.
Most KU fans were absolutely giddy over hiring Weiss. He was bringing the "Patriot way" to the little apple. After a year and a half of his act and more losing, not so much. KU would have been better off staying with Gill and saving their money. You point out that Wiess ran off multiple upperclassmen O linemen. That hardly seems smart given the time to develop linemen. The O line weren't the guys with behavioral problems and they're maybe the hardest to replace.
 

litespeedhuskerfan

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Most KU fans were absolutely giddy over hiring Weiss. He was bringing the "Patriot way" to the little apple. After a year and a half of his act and more losing, not so much. KU would have been better off staying with Gill and saving their money. You point out that Wiess ran off multiple upperclassmen O linemen. That hardly seems smart given the time to develop linemen. The O line weren't the guys with behavioral problems and they're maybe the hardest to replace.

Yer on an island on this one my friend...because by all accounts, Gill had his chance and just didn't quite get it done. I love the guy and wished it would have worked for him there.