Is it too late for HCSF to change his offense?

Oct 7, 2012
77
188
33
Alright I'm bored and getting into hypotheticals. Feel free to TLDR me.

Say we win 6 games this year. We fill out a mediocre recruiting class that isn't bad, but lacks star power. Nobody is really thrilled with the progress, but it is what it is. Frost gets another year.

HCSF says hey, maybe it's going to be difficult to get Oregon level speed at the skill positions to Lincoln on a consistent basis. Maybe we should shape our offense based on the most readily available regional talent - OL, TE, and LBs. He gets a couple new assistants, and changes the Offense to Power Spread with heavy 22 and 12 personnel.

How many years would you be willing to give him? Another 1-2 years, a full clean slate, or is he already toast at that point?
 

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
72,300
15,800
113
Wholesale change in a major way? Yes, too late as that would require readjusting the roster and recruiting emphasis. Tweaks, refinements and emphasis modifications? Never too late for that, it happens all the time and could happen between games to confuse the defenses.
 

Jhollenbeck41

Graduate Assistant
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2018
5,441
8,530
113
I'd give it another 2 years judgement free. Kind of ironic because the line is already built for it, and an argument can be made that there a few RBs built for it already too. I think would Adrian would be in it too honestly. Also ironic because I've listened to Frost in an interview a few years back say that there are a lot of parallels between the spread and a power based offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CT-NUred

TruHusker

Assistant Head Coach
Sep 21, 2001
9,613
4,618
113
Too much is made of these "changes" to the O. Most average fans wouldn't know the subtle changes unless they read about them, unless of course he goes straight I formation or something really old school.

To me, it matters more about execution and technique. If you still can't block a speed rusher, what difference does it make? If you can't pick up a blitz or coordinate blocking on the line, design means little.

Everyone is looking for the magic bullet, I get it. Execution, player development and details will make the difference, not a different name for the O.
 
Oct 12, 2016
3,023
2,643
113
Alright I'm bored and getting into hypotheticals. Feel free to TLDR me.

Say we win 6 games this year. We fill out a mediocre recruiting class that isn't bad, but lacks star power. Nobody is really thrilled with the progress, but it is what it is. Frost gets another year.

HCSF says hey, maybe it's going to be difficult to get Oregon level speed at the skill positions to Lincoln on a consistent basis. Maybe we should shape our offense based on the most readily available regional talent - OL, TE, and LBs. He gets a couple new assistants, and changes the Offense to Power Spread with heavy 22 and 12 personnel.

How many years would you be willing to give him? Another 1-2 years, a full clean slate, or is he already toast at that point?
at most 1. He then would have failed, I would rather give the reins over to someone else. At this assumed point, there isn't much downside to trying once again to get a winner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NikkiSixx

goldencohusker

Walk On
Sep 7, 2018
198
387
63
Besides the swing pass, I'm still trying to figure out what his offense is.
Or understanding how what we've seen the past 3 years resembles a combination of the fast pace/quick hitting schemes of Oregon and UCF, and NU's historical power running game as Frost stated was his vision in his introductory press conference back in 2018.
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
28,397
24,192
113
Too much is made of these "changes" to the O. Most average fans wouldn't know the subtle changes unless they read about them, unless of course he goes straight I formation or something really old school.

To me, it matters more about execution and technique. If you still can't block a speed rusher, what difference does it make? If you can't pick up a blitz or coordinate blocking on the line, design means little.

Everyone is looking for the magic bullet, I get it. Execution, player development and details will make the difference, not a different name for the O.
I don't care how you line them up. You can run basically the same plays out of very different sets. It all comes down to blocking and execution by your skill players.
 

Tuco Salamanca

Head Coach
Aug 18, 2016
11,535
16,258
113
Albuquerque
I'd give it another 2 years judgement free. Kind of ironic because the line is already built for it, and an argument can be made that there a few RBs built for it already too. I think would Adrian would be in it too honestly. Also ironic because I've listened to Frost in an interview a few years back say that there are a lot of parallels between the spread and a power based offense.
This offensive line is similar in size to the Oregon OL in 2014 and 2015.

I am as hard on Frost as anyone, but I don't think the offensive philosophy is what is holding this team back offensively. It is the execution and the lack of even Division 1 talent at the WR and RB positions the last couple of years.

I know many want to put the blame on the OL, but when your receivers can't get open, especially in today's game where the defense is at a disadvantage due to rule changes, that will hamper what Frost likes to do on offense as much as a poor OL. When a defense can cover your WR man on man, that reduces the amount of conflict you put the defense in.

Without an effective mid range passing game, to get the LBs out of the box, there is just too much traffic at the point of attack to run the ball effectively. 5 vs 6 (7) loses more than it wins.

Hopefully that changes this season because I love how this offense works when it is humming along, and it will work in the Big Ten.
 

Jhollenbeck41

Graduate Assistant
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2018
5,441
8,530
113
This offensive line is similar in size to the Oregon OL in 2014 and 2015.

I am as hard on Frost as anyone, but I don't think the offensive philosophy is what is holding this team back offensively. It is the execution and the lack of even Division 1 talent at the WR and RB positions the last couple of years.

I know many want to put the blame on the OL, but when your receivers can't get open, especially in today's game where the defense is at a disadvantage due to rule changes, that will hamper what Frost likes to do on offense as much as a poor OL. When a defense can cover your WR man on man, that reduces the amount of conflict you put the defense in.

Without an effective mid range passing game, to get the LBs out of the box, there is just too much traffic at the point of attack to run the ball effectively. 5 vs 6 (7) loses more than it wins.

Hopefully that changes this season because I love how this offense works when it is humming along, and it will work in the Big Ten.
Cool thing in my opinion is the O-Line will continue to grow with age and maturity. Only thing I genuinely fear is that if at any point Frost is let go, say goodbye to Husker Power and this S&C because Duval will be gone too.

I'm excited to see what this receiving corp can do because of how much size has been added the last 2 years. I actually genuinely think Omar and Toure are going to blow the top off this thing and will make things much easier for this offense to function. I was sold from Day 1 on the offense, but that is wavering right now if I'm being honest. I hope I can regain confidence each week.
 

ADV1

Walk On
Oct 26, 2018
338
473
63
Aledo, Texas
Take away the dumb mistakes & turnovers and our offense is pretty fun to watch... it's when we shoot ourselves in the foot that things head backwards quick! Like someone said above... just Execute solid play
 
  • Like
Reactions: dinglefritz

leodisflowers

Recruiting Coordinator
Feb 25, 2011
6,625
5,020
113
North Carolina
This offensive line is similar in size to the Oregon OL in 2014 and 2015.

I am as hard on Frost as anyone, but I don't think the offensive philosophy is what is holding this team back offensively. It is the execution and the lack of even Division 1 talent at the WR and RB positions the last couple of years.

I know many want to put the blame on the OL, but when your receivers can't get open, especially in today's game where the defense is at a disadvantage due to rule changes, that will hamper what Frost likes to do on offense as much as a poor OL. When a defense can cover your WR man on man, that reduces the amount of conflict you put the defense in.

Without an effective mid range passing game, to get the LBs out of the box, there is just too much traffic at the point of attack to run the ball effectively. 5 vs 6 (7) loses more than it wins.

Hopefully that changes this season because I love how this offense works when it is humming along, and it will work in the Big Ten.
I agree with this assessment, but also put a lot more on our QB. At some point you have to get a QB that can find the receivers. There is so much game tape of anyone who has played for Frost missing WR's all over the place. When he has those games where he can find them, our O looks great, but so much of the time he can't make the reads. Our O-Line has been more than serviceable during this time.
 

oldjar07

Graduate Assistant
Oct 25, 2009
5,355
3,511
113
He can change the offense to whatever he wants. It won't make a difference if he can't teach it. I don't think it would harm anything if he did make a major change, because it's not like it resembles anything right now anyway.
 

inWV

Defensive Coordinator
Sep 22, 2007
7,626
5,690
113
This offensive line is similar in size to the Oregon OL in 2014 and 2015.

I am as hard on Frost as anyone, but I don't think the offensive philosophy is what is holding this team back offensively. It is the execution and the lack of even Division 1 talent at the WR and RB positions the last couple of years.

I know many want to put the blame on the OL, but when your receivers can't get open, especially in today's game where the defense is at a disadvantage due to rule changes, that will hamper what Frost likes to do on offense as much as a poor OL. When a defense can cover your WR man on man, that reduces the amount of conflict you put the defense in.

Without an effective mid range passing game, to get the LBs out of the box, there is just too much traffic at the point of attack to run the ball effectively. 5 vs 6 (7) loses more than it wins.

Hopefully that changes this season because I love how this offense works when it is humming along, and it will work in the Big Ten.
Agreed that the times when the offense has gotten out of it's own way, things look pretty good. Then it doesn't. Some of that has been execution/stupid mistakes and some resulting from a lack of an effective counter to opponents' adjustments.
And yes, slagging on the Oline when the skill positions are lacking is wrong. Benhart and Corcoran were highly regarded recruits. They are young, but good young guys are starting on a lot of teams. There is depth at WR and RB, but it is largely unproven.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ADV1

TruHusker

Assistant Head Coach
Sep 21, 2001
9,613
4,618
113
Agreed that the times when the offense has gotten out of it's own way, things look pretty good. Then it doesn't. Some of that has been execution/stupid mistakes and some resulting from a lack of an effective counter to opponents' adjustments.
And yes, slagging on the Oline when the skill positions are lacking is wrong. Benhart and Corcoran were highly regarded recruits. They are young, but good young guys are starting on a lot of teams. There is depth at WR and RB, but it is largely unproven.
You are looking at the situation as a whole, I have a news flash, there will likely always be holes on the team - OL, RB, WR, TE, etc. Look at the performance of individual groups first and let's just stay with the OL that I have been admittedly critical of. Not having great WR doesn't excuse whiffing on blocks with a guy right in front of you or poor footwork at the point of attack or OL who can't seem to find someone in space to block or who can't quit making mistakes or pick up a blitz. So yes, talk about the lack of WR's all day and they will help but it all starts up front and until that is completely fixed, you are just asking other areas to pick up their slack. Let's see how much time AM has to throw this year and how many blitzes get picked up - that will tell us a lot.
 

JabroniBlvd

Walk On
Nov 5, 2005
452
662
93
Finding a consistent RB is the most important part IMO. WRs will make some plays along with the TEs. Find someone who can get the ball a lot will drastically improve this offense. I'm okay with having more of a running QB as long as carries are split up and we play action to TEs and our big Wrs.
 

CameronKrazie86

Sophomore
Jun 16, 2004
1,273
1,396
113
Besides the swing pass, I'm still trying to figure out what his offense is.
Ah, yes, the swing pass that Nebraska can never successfully run regardless of who the QB is. Best case seems to be about a 3 yard gain while 75% of the time it results in a loss of yardage or a turnover.

Between the poor swing passes and bad center snaps, I'd say that's Nebraska's offensive identity.
 

CT-NUred

Walk On
Gold Member
Dec 2, 2014
448
601
93
49
Fairfield, CT
myhusker.com
at most 1. He then would have failed, I would rather give the reins over to someone else. At this assumed point, there isn't much downside to trying once again to get a winner.

I agree with you whole-heartedly - I'm asking a serious question - do you think we can still attract a coach knowing that Frosty (golden boy) has failed? I mean...I know someone will coach NU for a couple million a year but do we get another Riley?

I guess we're going to figure out in about a year.
 

jeans1515

Walk On
Sep 30, 2016
263
318
63
I'd rather just hand it off then throw some of those swing passes.

That's a simple adjustment.
 

GBRforLife1

All-American
Feb 18, 2020
4,136
5,510
113
Alright I'm bored and getting into hypotheticals. Feel free to TLDR me.

Say we win 6 games this year. We fill out a mediocre recruiting class that isn't bad, but lacks star power. Nobody is really thrilled with the progress, but it is what it is. Frost gets another year.

HCSF says hey, maybe it's going to be difficult to get Oregon level speed at the skill positions to Lincoln on a consistent basis. Maybe we should shape our offense based on the most readily available regional talent - OL, TE, and LBs. He gets a couple new assistants, and changes the Offense to Power Spread with heavy 22 and 12 personnel.

How many years would you be willing to give him? Another 1-2 years, a full clean slate, or is he already toast at that point?
That's next year
 

nu2u

Sophomore
Aug 10, 2006
1,301
1,442
113
Not too late but it would be an admission of failure. He is starting to get some quality depth on the OL now so he could pivot but it would probably be a rocky transition.
 

poundth3rock

Sophomore
Gold Member
Jul 20, 2007
1,308
435
83
Kansas
Alright I'm bored and getting into hypotheticals. Feel free to TLDR me.

Say we win 6 games this year. We fill out a mediocre recruiting class that isn't bad, but lacks star power. Nobody is really thrilled with the progress, but it is what it is. Frost gets another year.

HCSF says hey, maybe it's going to be difficult to get Oregon level speed at the skill positions to Lincoln on a consistent basis. Maybe we should shape our offense based on the most readily available regional talent - OL, TE, and LBs. He gets a couple new assistants, and changes the Offense to Power Spread with heavy 22 and 12 personnel.

How many years would you be willing to give him? Another 1-2 years, a full clean slate, or is he already toast at that point?

Your hypothetical is a good question and while I am not ready to fully consider it I would lean toward he is toast in your scenario.

However, I am still all in on 2021-2022. I think this is going to be a good football team over next two years and that will be very evident against Illinios. Quite frankly, super excited for this season in both football and basketball as I believe both will turn the corner this year.
 
  • Love
Reactions: dinglefritz

donahues17

Recruiting Coordinator
Nov 5, 2005
6,096
1,450
113
He seems to have been changing already. He doesnt recruit the tiny speedy WR as much. Therefore that tells me the swing passes will he a thing of the past. Small WR dont cut it often in the B1G. He is realizing that now. His offense was to let the speedy guys get the ball and make the play. It will be interesting to see the offense this year.
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
28,397
24,192
113
Ah, yes, the swing pass that Nebraska can never successfully run regardless of who the QB is. Best case seems to be about a 3 yard gain while 75% of the time it results in a loss of yardage or a turnover.

Between the poor swing passes and bad center snaps, I'd say that's Nebraska's offensive identity.
the swing passes were in lieu of the down field passing game in an attempt to loosen up the middle of the field for the running game. I expect a very different approach this year with the boundary passes only getting used if DBs start playing off. We need to be able to burn some defenses deep in order for those boundary passes to work. Newsflash, Tom used bubble screens and quick sideline passes a fair amount too. It is supposed to be a high percentage safe play to spread the defense laterally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: headcard

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
7,173
12,644
113
Your hypothetical is a good question and while I am not ready to fully consider it I would lean toward he is toast in your scenario.

However, I am still all in on 2021-2022. I think this is going to be a good football team over next two years and that will be very evident against Illinios. Quite frankly, super excited for this season in both football and basketball as I believe both will turn the corner this year.
I'm with you in hoops!
 

inWV

Defensive Coordinator
Sep 22, 2007
7,626
5,690
113
the swing passes were in lieu of the down field passing game in an attempt to loosen up the middle of the field for the running game. I expect a very different approach this year with the boundary passes only getting used if DBs start playing off. We need to be able to burn some defenses deep in order for those boundary passes to work. Newsflash, Tom used bubble screens and quick sideline passes a fair amount too. It is supposed to be a high percentage safe play to spread the defense laterally.
These type of plays may also look different with a guy like Manning involved.
 

Latest posts