If our Roster is so depleted why no JUCO's

[SnohomishRed]

I think Juco's have a place and so do most successful programs however this staff has not signed one Juco I am aware of. I am curious why not - especially at positions of need such as DE we had a top rated juco DE going to school in Council Bluffs last year and let Wisconsin sign him

Is it possible Riley does not fully understand how many Junior colleges there are in the midwest that can be targeted? . I think we should be signing at least 3 a year right now til he gets the roster to where he wants it

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

quick get me Mike Riley on the phone. I need to alert him to the fact that there are a plethora of JUCOs here in the Midwest and how to properly use them.


Ha ha ha.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

I actually think the OP raises a valid point. There does seem to be a deliberate decision by Riley not to recruit JUCO'S. Why?

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

In all seriousness Riley used the jucos in California pretty regularly at Oregon St. I think he has a pretty good idea on how they work.

 

[dockentwo]

I actually think the OP raises a valid point. There does seem to be a deliberate decision by Riley not to recruit JUCO'S. Why?

Based on Tucos'comment
- I would think HCMR knows he has some real developers of talent on the staff. The AD has put together a cutting edge support and research team.
- With the improved recruiting, they may feel they can bring a freshman up to speed just as fast as they might a juco; a majority of the time. So a high percent of time, you get more years of service.
- They have been in there on some high level jucos; just didn't get them or may have changed a few others to non-commitable offers for various reasons.
- The juco method of roster management may be overrated, though I have seen some good articles. So I would call it a matter of highest return of talent vs speed to get on the field.

 

[otismotis08]

All options need to be on the table.

 

[Suhrreal]

Are there any significant JUCOs available and can we even sign them now? Was there any word about that UCONN DT that graduated? Or that Kentucky graduate transfer WR?

 

[NikkiSixx]

Bill Snyder made a heck of a living using Jucos.

I still think MR should have started his system day 1, brought in Jucos where needed etc. Instead, he got a 2 year sandbagging operation and a paycheck.

I blame Eichorst though

 

[HBK4life]

Bill Snyder made a heck of a living using Jucos.

I still think MR should have started his system day 1, brought in Jucos where needed etc. Instead, he got a 2 year sandbagging operation and a paycheck.

I blame Eichorst though

I blame Eichorst for global warming too. 100 degrees in Lincoln. Must be his fault.

 

[timnsun]

I blame Eichorst for global warming too. 100 degrees in Lincoln. Must be his fault.

What's amusing about Nikki is that if he truly believes Eichorst is the puppet master here, he is even more clueless than I thought. Why would a 30+ year head coach who has always called the shots go somewhere and be told what to do at every turn? Doesn't make a lick of sense...

Which is why I think Nikki is just trying to get your goat, my goat, and whoever responds to him when he says outlandish things.

I admit, it took me awhile to figure out Nikki's game, but now that I know it, I can tell you he's smarter than this most recent post of his.

 

[DukeOfSorrow]

Given they hand out preferred walk-on slots to JUCOs, I don't think think they have a problem with using them. They probably can't find or get any in particular they feel they can use.

Heck, they were after a grad transfer a couple months ago... Come on guys you will just find anything to complain about.

 

[jflores]

I'm surprised that the narrative "we let the kid go to Wisconsin instead of set foot on IWCC campus to even try" survives considering

1. IWCC tweeted us thanking us for visiting their campus
2. The kid was recruited by Parella/Bray and chose Wisconsin anyway.

And yes, Riley has experience with JUCOs from previous stops.

 

[jflores]

I actually think the OP raises a valid point. There does seem to be a deliberate decision by Riley not to recruit JUCO'S. Why?

Besides this DE we recruited last year (which the OP falsely claims we didn't) we are also targeting the #1 JUCO OT this year in NY State.

Nikki mentioned that Bill Snyder made a heck of a living recruiting JUCOs. However, approximately 120 other coaches did not, including many more successful than Bill Snyder.

I disagree with the OP that we need to be taking X number of JUCOs per year. Its pretty apparent from the OL recruiting that Riley intends to build his foundation on HS kids and the redshirt system. I don't mind select targeting of JUCOs in small numbers.

(Note we also recruited another JUCO who was a top DL last year. I posted a Twitter picture of him standing in front of a new car with Bama gear on).

 

[HBK4life]

What's amusing about Nikki is that if he truly believes Eichorst is the puppet master here, he is even more clueless than I thought. Why would a 30+ year head coach who has always called the shots go somewhere and be told what to do at every turn? Doesn't make a lick of sense...

Which is why I think Nikki is just trying to get your goat, my goat, and whoever responds to him when he says outlandish things.

I admit, it took me awhile to figure out Nikki's game, but now that I know it, I can tell you he's smarter than this most recent post of his.

Meh, seems like a graduate of the trollsa tom school of knob gobbling.

 

[Toms Wife]

If talent and roster management were as bad as some want us to think, JUCOs would have served as part of that answer. A few JUCOs in 2016 and we don't have just 16 spots next year.

 

[timnsun]

If talent and roster management were as bad as some want us to think, JUCOs would have served as part of that answer. A few JUCOs in 2016 and we don't have just 16 spots next year.

See Tuco's comment above.

This isn't Riley's first rodeo.

 

[HuskerLLM]

Not short of DE...it is Boundary OLB

 

[jflores]

Not short of DE...it is Boundary OLB

Yup. Time to find a bag man for Parsons.

 

[Toms Wife]

See Tuco's comment above.

This isn't Riley's first rodeo.

OK. That has nothing to do with using Jucos to even out the classes like I remarked.

 

[jflores]

OK. That has nothing to do with using Jucos to even out the classes like I remarked.

You could but since we mostly seem to get in on 2/3 year options, and not the 1 and done guys, we'd realistically have to start down that path basically when Riley was hired.

I don't really see any point in yelling about "Why no JUCOs" in the present day, when the past two seasons have shown us a staff wanting to preserve continuity through redshirts at basically all cost (we almost couldn't field a QB or OL last year).

They aren't going to flip a switch and start bringing in 3 JUCO guys a year now just to even out classes. He'll be extended/fired before that matters.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Typical.

 

[Toms Wife]

You could but since we mostly seem to get in on 2/3 year options, and not the 1 and done guys, we'd realistically have to start down that path basically when Riley was hired.

I don't really see any point in yelling about "Why no JUCOs" in the present day, when the past two seasons have shown us a staff wanting to preserve continuity through redshirts at basically all cost (we almost couldn't field a QB or OL last year).

They aren't going to flip a switch and start bringing in 3 JUCO guys a year now just to even out classes. He'll be extended/fired before that matters.

If our talent was that bad Riley had over a year to bring in Jucos in 2016 and they could have played right away. Why redshirt since they would have been better from the start?

Boom...better talent right away and you just evened out your classes.

 

[coachDubs]

we had a top rated juco DE going to school in Council Bluffs last year and let Wisconsin sign him

We didn't let him anything. We recruited him, he was all Wisconsin from day one.

Subject title remains valid though.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

What's amusing about Nikki is that if he truly believes Eichorst is the puppet master here, he is even more clueless than I thought. Why would a 30+ year head coach who has always called the shots go somewhere and be told what to do at every turn? Doesn't make a lick of sense...

Which is why I think Nikki is just trying to get your goat, my goat, and whoever responds to him when he says outlandish things.

I admit, it took me awhile to figure out Nikki's game, but now that I know it, I can tell you he's smarter than this most recent post of his.

No, he's not.

 

[nebcountry]

Seems like we had a juco LB committed a few years back that later chose a different path. It seemed like we made a decent push for Van Ginkle last year. So juco prospects just haven't worked out for us.

 

[timnsun]

OK. That has nothing to do with using Jucos to even out the classes like I remarked.

The point is Riley and company are making the calls here. They've been around the block. They have a plan, even if you don't agree with it. Just like Tuco said above.

But your plan is better... it amazes me that there aren't more people from this very board on staff for the huskers.

 

[SnohomishRed]

You could but since we mostly seem to get in on 2/3 year options, and not the 1 and done guys, we'd realistically have to start down that path basically when Riley was hired.

I don't really see any point in yelling about "Why no JUCOs" in the present day, when the past two seasons have shown us a staff wanting to preserve continuity through redshirts at basically all cost (we almost couldn't field a QB or OL last year).

They aren't going to flip a switch and start bringing in 3 JUCO guys a year now just to even out classes. He'll be extended/fired before that matters.

Riley does not seem to be the kind of guy that does not have plan. Plus he has made recruiting a priority since day one. Yet I don't believe he has signed a juco since he has been here and with all the kansas schools and the council bluffs schools it is very puzzling.

As another note why is every discussion point turned to a pro or con argument against the staff, I believe it is worth discussing and I brought up the DE because we have been very thin at this position and continue to be thin there, it was a lost opportunity and it stings to lose to a team in our own division

 

[SnohomishRed]

In all seriousness Riley used the jucos in California pretty regularly at Oregon St. I think he has a pretty good idea on how they work.

Another non answer of course he knows how it works and yes he has recruited them in the past. The question is why not here

 

[timnsun]

Another non answer of course he knows how it works and yes he has recruited them in the past. The question is why not here

Yeah that is the question... and I'm not sure any of us have the answer as to why. They aren't completely avoiding jucos, but none that they have pursued wanted to come.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Besides this DE we recruited last year (which the OP falsely claims we didn't) we are also targeting the #1 JUCO OT this year in NY State.

Nikki mentioned that Bill Snyder made a heck of a living recruiting JUCOs. However, approximately 120 other coaches did not, including many more successful than Bill Snyder.

I disagree with the OP that we need to be taking X number of JUCOs per year. Its pretty apparent from the OL recruiting that Riley intends to build his foundation on HS kids and the redshirt system. I don't mind select targeting of JUCOs in small numbers.

(Note we also recruited another JUCO who was a top DL last year. I posted a Twitter picture of him standing in front of a new car with Bama gear on).

I agree it is not a good idea to recruit a lot of JUCO'S. But I do not think the OP was calling for a Snyder-like approach to this. JUCO'S, selectively recruited, can help fill holes. And many of these kids do have talent. For example, assuming he gets his act together, Blades will be a talented recruit out of the juco ranks in two years, or less.

So it is very helpful in this discussion to see, as you and others on here have pointed out, that we HAVE tried to recruit JUCO'S. We just haven't been particularly successful.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Another non answer of course he knows how it works and yes he has recruited them in the past. The question is why not here

It's not a non answer. Any answer to the question is speculation. I know that he used the JUCO ranks in the past, perhaps his and his staff's research says that their JUCO recruits don't work out at the same rate as high school players. There are any number of reasons why he may not be using the JUCO ranks, I just don't think it is because he doesn't have a "full understanding" of how many JUCOs are in the area.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

If our talent was that bad Riley had over a year to bring in Jucos in 2016 and they could have played right away. Why redshirt since they would have been better from the start?

Boom...better talent right away and you just evened out your classes.

So JUCOs are automatically better? I missed that memo. A good friend of mine coached at Blinn Jr College in Texas. The level of football, overall, is on par with an average 5a or 6a Texas football team. Most teams have a few players that are P5 level talents, but most of those talented players are at a JUCO for a reason, and it's typically not because they were under recruited or no one knew who they were before JUCO. There are inherent risks with signing junior college players.

 

[Toms Wife]

So JUCOs are automatically better? I missed that memo. A good friend of mine coached at Blinn Jr College in Texas. The level of football, overall, is on par with an average 5a or 6a Texas football team. Most teams have a few players that are P5 level talents, but most of those talented players are at a JUCO for a reason, and it's typically not because they were under recruited or no one knew who they were before JUCO. There are inherent risks with signing junior college players.

Or maybe the lack of talent excuse and the disastrous holes at certain positions are not the issues that some have made them out to be.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Or maybe the lack of talent excuse and the disastrous holes at certain positions are not the issues that some have made them out to be.

I don't follow. So because they didn't go after JUCO players, there werent holes?

 

[Toms Wife]

I don't follow. So because they didn't go after JUCO players, there werent holes?

If the holes were so great, why would one not go hard after JUCOs? If the classes three years down the road from when Riley was hired were going to be such a problem, why not go after JUCOs in the first couple years? It's not like the talent level of the #31, #24, and #20 classes involving all freshmen was so much better than some players at the JUCO ranks.

One answer MIGHT be that Eichorst was right in saying we already had players who could compete for championships. Even Bo out-recruited the others in our division.

 

[timnsun]

If the holes were so great, why would one not go hard after JUCOs? If the classes three years down the road from when Riley was hired were going to be such a problem, why not go after JUCOs in the first couple years? It's not like the talent level of the #31, #24, and #20 classes involving all freshmen was so much better than some players at the JUCO ranks.

One answer MIGHT be that Eichorst was right in saying we already had players who could compete for championships. Even Bo out-recruited the others in our division.

Or maybe they did go after jucos and they went elsewhere. Which has already been established.

Unless you mean all jucos are better, in which case, you are right. The coaches failed. But they're not all better, are they Tom?

 

[Dean Pope]

I think Juco's have a place and so do most successful programs however this staff has not signed one Juco I am aware of. I am curious why not - especially at positions of need such as DE we had a top rated juco DE going to school in Council Bluffs last year and let Wisconsin sign him

Is it possible Riley does not fully understand how many Junior colleges there are in the midwest that can be targeted? . I think we should be signing at least 3 a year right now til he gets the roster to where he wants it

Why don't we recruit more jucos? Jack Pierce said it best, "Because we don't have to".

The thought is that if you are recruiting at a high level, developing talent and adding walk-ons to the mix, a team shouldn't need to recruit jucos. The opportunity cost of recruiting jucos is too high-- time better spent recruiting a 4 star with excellent grades.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

If the holes were so great, why would one not go hard after JUCOs? If the classes three years down the road from when Riley was hired were going to be such a problem, why not go after JUCOs in the first couple years? It's not like the talent level of the #31, #24, and #20 classes involving all freshmen was so much better than some players at the JUCO ranks.

One answer MIGHT be that Eichorst was right in saying we already had players who could compete for championships. Even Bo out-recruited the others in our division.

Another answer could be that RIley believed the talent was better than it was and simply overestimated the talent, especially offensively. Defensively I think the DLine talent was better than it played in 2015. But after that first year, I could see how a coach would just say, I am going to build this from the high school ranks.

I dont believe you can draw the parallels you are attempting to draw. The argument isn't linear.

 

[spinner4]

My favorite contradiction on this board has to be this one.

-Riley doesn't recruit Jucos cause he doesn't have too or only goes after like 2 a year

then same type of posters post

-Riley cant compete at a high level because he doesn't have depth on his roster.

No one can argue with you with that logic because it's impossible to argue with idiots.

IF this staff believes it can do better by recruiting HS kids and develop them quick enough to build depth, I am fine with that. But don't give me sh*t about him not having time to build depth then. It a freaking contradiction. He's signed 62 scholarship players, 31 walk-ons, and 2 transfers (93 total players!!!) in 2015, 2016, & 2017 combined.If they can build depth with young guys, then they should be fine now, right? He's got the bodies. So give me a freaking break and don't use a double standard.

As far as Ginkel goes @ IWCC, Huskers got a big F-U from IWCC on that. Nebraska lacks a history of recruiting kids @ IWCC. I feel like the school and it's football staff feel a little shunned off by the Huskers and Ginkel was their "F off" moment .

Finally, almost every coach in college football recruits Jucos. Myers does. Saban does. Every SEC school has landed at least 1 Juco in the past 2 years combined (most have taken a couple). Saban usually takes @ least 1 Juco per year. Osborne recruited Jucos. Arguably the 2 best LBs in Husker football were Jucos. No one is asking for Snyder but when you obviously have depth problems, do something to fix it. Don't just pout and say " In 2021 we should be fine". Build a pair for a change and grow up.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Why don't we recruit more jucos? Jack Pierce said it best, "Because we don't have to".

The thought is that if you are recruiting at a high level, developing talent and adding walk-ons to the mix, a team shouldn't need to recruit jucos. The opportunity cost of recruiting jucos is too high-- time better spent recruiting a 4 star with excellent grades.

Did we not just lose a 4 star recruit ( Blades) due to grades to Juco - most top 25 teams take a Juco or two every year what makes us different plus we do have holes and as correctly pointed out here the previous staff did not do a good job filling classes