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Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by WestCoastCornhusker2, Jul 15, 2020.
Why not both?
Riley represents an understated shift in Husker Dline recruiting. Chin's scheme, which is much maligned, and hated by many, wants tall and long bodies on the defensive line. A component of this high risk-high reward defense involves players who can disrupt passing lanes, tip balls, and help disguise blitzers.
Don't be surprised to see Ty Robinson at 6'7, Riley at 6'6, and Stille at 6'5 on the field together during obvious passing situations.
Im not sure they will be on the field together in obvious passing situations. I think we see more 4 man fronts in those situations where a guy like Riley may come off the field.
I THINK we may see guys like Payne, Newsome, or Thomas as guys who may be a part of the 4 man fronts with Stille and at least one of the OLBs. Just a guess though.
I'm not sure I've ever disagreed with a post more.... lol.
Payne won't ever see the field.
Newsome might indeed play a ton. Stille won't be an OLB in pass rushing situations. And they will never be in a 4 man front on 3rd and long unless they're creeping up a smaller pass rusher.
I haven't seen Payne so don't really have any clue, I can only surmise...
He's a juco guy who got a 'ship. The coaches said that he can help us with pass rush. So either he's helping out as a DE type in those limited occasions where we would go to a 4 man front or he's playing DT in 3-long. I think I'll split the difference on the 2 opposing takes.
Tackles are taller now days and Chins wants DE's who are taller and can disengage blocks. I think the disrution of passing lanes is a bonus. Either way, he knows what he wants since he has been bringing in DE's that are more power forward height, not small forward or guard.
I'll leave the details to you guys, but for god's sake we need to figure out a pass rush.
Minnesota didn't push us around. Their guys were fundamentally sound and beat us with techniques. They didn't get much push on the DL it was more of them sticking to us and second/third level run fits weren't there.
We also played more nickel that game than typical because Minnesota's offense had a lot of talent on it. We weren't very good on defense when we went to nickel. Our base package was alright.
I honestly don't know if Ohio state best us physically cause I have never rewatched that game for obvious reasons.
Shoot even less of a S&C argument then! thank you. I've re-watched it twice, god knows why. It gets pretty tough to continue around halftime.
You need to have both. This isn't an either or discussion. Technique and S&C are both very important.
You also have to look at frames and raw athletic ability.
Their idea that they're trying to execute is that they want you to have the frame, athletic ability and love of the game. Then come around and develop the rest.
I don't know if these two will be ready this year, but guys like Cooper (6'6") or Graham(6'4") could be that spark off the edge situationally. I don't know if it will be this year or not though.
Yeah I understand. My comment was directed to the people who think S&C means next to nothing.
Graham is a year behind because he had shoulder surgery last fall and never really got to practice until late in the season. I did love his HS film though. He was a freakish wing span.
Way too often, our two draft picks were pushed 5 yards back.
It might have happened, but the FAR bigger problem was second/third level run fits. DL did an "ok" job that game.
They killed us in OZr. OL isn't trying to get vertical movement on that play. They are trying to get the defense moving side to side and make you maintain gap discipline. If you over pursue then the back has to read it and cut accordingly.
Barry and Davis were abused in this game.
The raw goods are there for both. It is on Dawson and Duval to maximize them. If they do that they both have NFL ceilings imo.
The point of the comment was never that S&C doesn't matter. The point was that the days of NU having a massive edge in S&C over teams that haven't yet figured out the science of how to lift weights and eat are over.
Nebraska used to have proprietary knowledge in the Husker Power program and could count on wearing down an evenly-matched team over the course of a game and beating them with physicality in the second half. That was a quarter century ago.
So while it's great that we have a freshman who can 1RM squat something in the 700-800 pounds department, gone are the days when the broadcast had to take time out to mention the weight disparity our OL had over the opposing DL.
All the good programs have figured out S&C enough to be roughly on par with each other. Talent and coaching need to have their say for NU to become a Top 10 team again.
I respect that. I'll keep beating the dead horse but people still aren't grasping the concept that one of the golden facts of Husker Power is being as big and as strong for an ENTIRE GAME and not just for 3/4 of the game like most teams. What people don't see in the Duval clips, because they aren't as "sexy" are the 3x10 sets of squat and bench "on the clock", which is very little rest between sets" to not only build strength and size but also get your body conditioned to stay strong when its tired. But I do agree with most of what you said.
I think it's important to note that although most big-time programs do have strong S&C development emphasis, there was a time a few years ago when we didn't at all.
Frankly, if we can just get on par with Wisconsin and Iowa in S&C, then hopefully with better recruiting (on paper at least!), and if we are on par in terms of coaching technique, we should start to win at least some of the games. We'll see, it's been a disappointing tenure for SF and company so far.
The Minnesota game was neither S&C or technique. They guys just couldn't move in their hoodies.
Lol...maybe i i wasnt clear. When i mentioned 4 man front its always with a caveat that one of those is an OLB rushing the passer as the 4th man.
As far as Payne never playing it remains to be seen. If they are serious about putting someone out there who has at least shown an aptitude at some level to rush the passer they will consider him. Yes extremely light in the pants but have you watched our DL outside of Kahlil Davis rush the passer since we have been in the 3-4?? Honestly its almost embarrassing. Going back to Diaco as well not just chin.
There is a reason the guys i listed BESIDES Stille are on my list. Because i havent seen anything from any of the other guys that make me feel like they have a chance to be legitimate pass rushers. I absolutely love Robinson but im not sure that will be his strong suit either.
As far as rushing the passer i have as high of hopes for Payne as you do with Jordan. I dont see any scenario where he is a pass rusher on 3rd down. I see those two as polar opposites. Payne strictly in for those pass rush situations and Jordan strictly for the run.
On 3rd in long i see a Stille and a Nesome/Payne/Thomas with an OLB (Tannor/Nelson) rushing the passer. Not seeing it with Jordan on film
Kinda how i see it with Payne as well. Definitely not an every down DE.
Yeah I can agree with that. Think it's also important to acknowledge that some people's expectations so soon are completely unrealistic.
Maybe Cooper this year. Grahm may be a year or so off. I absolutely love the Butler kid we got this year for that guy off the edge. Doubt If hes ready this year though. But he was in my top 4 of last years class. I love him!
I think Payne is a 3 for 2 guy so he has the 4 game option in play for him and I think that would be a good plan for 3 reasons.
1) We have 6 DL's that are Juniors. Thomas,Walker,Daniels,Green,Riley and Payne. It would be nice to break up that log jam a bit.
2) We already have a good bit of depth and experience. Thomas,Riley,Stille,Robinson,Daniels,Rogers were mentioned as top 6 candidates early in the spring I believe. Green will be there to challenge that group too. Then of course Newsome will get a chance to show now to see what we have there.
3) Give him a year of S&C will make him better.
Payne actually looked more explosive and athletic. Riley definitely looks like Tarzan hopefully doesn't play like Jane.
We have a lot of "bodies" . Not sure if they would all qualify as quality depth. Big difference and one many people misunderstand. Bodies doesnt necessarily equal depth.
‘no it’s Giddyup.