Here. You. Go.

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Posted this in a different thread, thought it was worth its own. As always, Randy - kaz - whomever, if you feel it should remain in the other thread, I understand if you delete this.

*******************************

Here's the bottom line about this defense, and the record reflects since he was announced, IMO, Banker is a bad hire. Regardless, there's a lot of debate about "there's talent" and "no there's not". Here's my .02...

You're not going to have a great defense unless you have 2 guys at each level (front, middle, back). I'm not aware of a defense that performed on a high enough level that didn't have that. If a team did only have 1 guy at a level, they made up for it elsewhere, and that's more than possible but I'd say it's the exception. (EX: Suh, Crick - Dillard, Hagg in hybrid - Amukamara, Dennard). (((Heck, I can easily add Gomes, Asante and everyone's whipping boy O'Hanlon too, great role players that played at a high level due to what was around them)))

You want to know what made Suh so great at Nebraska, besides his raw ability and Peelini? He had a back 7 that was absolutely lights out in 2009. You take 2009 Suh and put him with the 2015 back 7 and there's no way in heck he puts up the numbers he did. You take the 2009 back 7 and Collins himself is wrecking havoc so far this season, way too much pressure on a OL to hold blocks. Anyone that wants to debate this, let's debate it.

When facing spread teams, which I say is what we've faced through 4 games so far, you have to have guys on the back end that get on someone at the LOS. When that happens, advantage to the defensive front 4. When a defense can't play tight(er) coverage, big time advantage to the OL. And that also means you have to account for the RB too in the passing game, his inside/outside chips are a quick and easy read.

Now, can the 2015 defense be productive against the pass and run in B1G conference play? Absolutely they can, when healthy, with the schedule we have this year. There is no way in heck, over the course of the conference season, we're going to stop teams at a consistent enough pace without Valentine (1 of 2 needed at level 1), Banderas/Rose-Ivey (2 of 2 needed at level 2) and Gerry the lone ranger in the back (1 of 2 needed at level 3). You're talking about 4 guys missing (3 injured, 1 missing to compliment Gerry). Sh1t, for the back end to be successful, all we're missing is an island guy.

Anyone curious what happened up above to where we're at now? Go look at who is in our roster and tell me who the 2 guys are in level 1, 2 guys in level 2 and 2 guys in level 3. I already helped out with (level 1) Collins, (level 2) Bando / Rose-Ivey and (level 3) Gerry. Sure, there's potential however, that's all it is right now.

That potential (talent) has to be coached - just like the potential (talent) had to be coached back in 2009.

TL;DR, I'm sure but damn folks, have some knowledge and common sense when discussing something!

 

[Tuco Ramirez]

I agree you can't have a great defense without great players at three levels. But I'm not sure that excuses not have a decent defense. Certainly being a transitional year is part of that.

(And I completely agree about the success Suh had in 2009 was largely in part to a very good secondary. That is often overlooked.)

 

[jflores]

I guess I'll repost here.

Is this a Banker problem then? You seem to indicate that any DC/scheme is going to get pasted without 6 solid players. So near term, there's not a lot Banker or anyone else is going to do to fix our ills to a consistent degree. Foreman seemed high on the scheme, and still does.

Former players seem to be indicating time and recruiting is what we need.

 

[jflores]

I agree you can't have a great defense without great players at three levels. But I'm not sure that excuses not have a decent defense. Certainly being a transitional year is part of that.

(And I completely agree about the success Suh had in 2009 was largely in part to a very good secondary. That is often overlooked.)

Well, it depends on how you define decent.

I think NU fans over the years have been spoiled by remarkable consistency in the glory days. There's a lot of schools that have a good pass defense and a bad run D and vice versa, certainly our disparity is extreme. When I think of a decent D, it can potentially take many forms, not necessarily that pass and run D sit in the middle of the pack together somewhere.

We've seen on special teams that the difference between atrocious and decent aren't that big, and really not that far for excellent either. To some degree, football is binary, if you are beat a little bit, you are beat. They don't give up 4 point TD's for getting it decently right on execution.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

We're one of the worst defenses in the country, I find it impossible to believe we have one of the worst rosters in al of CFB on the defensive side. I get the injuries and walkons etc, I really do, but Banker has never had any success has he? It was a head scratcher hire, that is still a head scratcher, and as long as we continue to be so putrid on that side of the ball it will continue to be a head scratcher of a hire. BUT, I am not advocating we fire him, no way. Let's get some guys healthy, let's see the Davis twins get in there, let's get a Juco DB who actually can catch a cold, and THEN lets see what we have.

 

[siegsker]

@jflores It could be both -- and coaching as well. Will our defensive coaches be the ones to turn some of the raw talent into great players, or will they be as good at that as Tim Beck was at developing QBs? As for picking 2-2-2...

Maliek/Valentine up front.
Rose-Ivey/Banderas at LB.
Gerry/...Kalu? at DB.

Still need good role players, but if these guys all step up to be great (and they all have to step up), we might be getting close. Depth, injuries could still get in the way. Confidence is really lacking.

 

[otismotis08]

Banker is probably not the greatest defensive coordinator in the country. But, with the right players, his scheme looks like it could succeed. The past few weeks, I've seen him mixing things up and trying different things. But if the players don't do their jobs each play, it just doesn't work. We can't generate pressure without blitzing. When we blitz, we rarely get there in time. When we don't get there in time, our secondary is getting torched. It's bad across the board. I see some decent athletes who could probably improve with coaching, but the real issue seems to be talent.

Face it...we're going nowhere fast. We didn't hire a lightning-rod recruiter. This will take a while.

 

[planored]

Yes, 3 of the 6 listed need to get back on the field first and foremost.

 

[Scheisse]

Posted this in a different thread, thought it was worth its own. As always, Randy - kaz - whomever, if you feel it should remain in the other thread, I understand if you delete this.

*******************************

Here's the bottom line about this defense, and the record reflects since he was announced, IMO, Banker is a bad hire. Regardless, there's a lot of debate about "there's talent" and "no there's not". Here's my .02...

You're not going to have a great defense unless you have 2 guys at each level (front, middle, back). I'm not aware of a defense that performed on a high enough level that didn't have that. If a team did only have 1 guy at a level, they made up for it elsewhere, and that's more than possible but I'd say it's the exception. (EX: Suh, Crick - Dillard, Hagg in hybrid - Amukamara, Dennard). (((Heck, I can easily add Gomes, Asante and everyone's whipping boy O'Hanlon too, great role players that played at a high level due to what was around them)))

You want to know what made Suh so great at Nebraska, besides his raw ability and Peelini? He had a back 7 that was absolutely lights out in 2009. You take 2009 Suh and put him with the 2015 back 7 and there's no way in heck he puts up the numbers he did. You take the 2009 back 7 and Collins himself is wrecking havoc so far this season, way too much pressure on a OL to hold blocks. Anyone that wants to debate this, let's debate it.

When facing spread teams, which I say is what we've faced through 4 games so far, you have to have guys on the back end that get on someone at the LOS. When that happens, advantage to the defensive front 4. When a defense can't play tight(er) coverage, big time advantage to the OL. And that also means you have to account for the RB too in the passing game, his inside/outside chips are a quick and easy read.

Now, can the 2015 defense be productive against the pass and run in B1G conference play? Absolutely they can, when healthy, with the schedule we have this year. There is no way in heck, over the course of the conference season, we're going to stop teams at a consistent enough pace without Valentine (1 of 2 needed at level 1), Banderas/Rose-Ivey (2 of 2 needed at level 2) and Gerry the lone ranger in the back (1 of 2 needed at level 3). You're talking about 4 guys missing (3 injured, 1 missing to compliment Gerry). Sh1t, for the back end to be successful, all we're missing is an island guy.

Anyone curious what happened up above to where we're at now? Go look at who is in our roster and tell me who the 2 guys are in level 1, 2 guys in level 2 and 2 guys in level 3. I already helped out with (level 1) Collins, (level 2) Bando / Rose-Ivey and (level 3) Gerry. Sure, there's potential however, that's all it is right now.

That potential (talent) has to be coached - just like the potential (talent) had to be coached back in 2009.

TL;DR, I'm sure but damn folks, have some knowledge and common sense when discussing something!

No. The defense is fine. Give them time.

 

[StrongArm517]

Here's the bottom line about this defense, and the record reflects since he was announced, IMO, Banker is a bad hire. Regardless, there's a lot of debate about "there's talent" and "no there's not". Here's my .02...

Would you mind if took Jay Foreman's, Ralph Brown's, Michael Booker's and Damon Bennings opinion over yours?

 

[NikkiSixx]

Some interesting info from coach Riley today.. He said when things sort of went south, the defensive players would try to over compensate for perceived deficiencies, which resulted in pulling the defense completely out of the original scheme. He was pretty stressful about saying they have to to teach those guys to trust the system and not try to over compensate. He didn't get into a ton of details about it, but he's acutely aware of what is going on there. I think those guys back there are trying too hard to do too much. They have to learn to play within their system and focus on their responsibility it sounded like.

It did not sound like much was going to change scheme wise. Although it did sound like they are spending a lot of time reviewing things.

Unrelated, but I do like listening to coach speak about the different topics and he's pretty transparent about what they are focusing on. Certainly more productive and pleasurable press conferences than the last guy.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

Yes, 3 of the 6 listed need to get back on the field first and foremost.

I seriously doubt that happens this year

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

Would you mind if took Jay Foreman's, Ralph Brown's, Michael Booker's and Damon Bennings opinion over yours?

Banker has never had any success, so it really doesn't matter to me what those guys say in regards to this subject. Damon is the man though, love listening to that guy.

 

[inWV]

Freedom is a RS frosh backup, Young is a true frosh who got thrown into the fire and the other two that played last week are backup LBs. Vince is nicked up. Perhaps McMullen has taken a step back?
So of our front 7, we are playing essentially three veterans at any time: McMullen, Collins, Williams/Maurice, depending on two frosh (Freedom and Young), plus a walkon and Newby. Other than Gerry, no one has really distinguished themselves in the group of DBs (JRose perhaps?).
New scheme+key injuries+sketchy depth=what we've seen. Banker may not be the bees knees, but perhaps we should wait until his defense sucks when healthy to dump on him.
I would hope the coaches are working feverishly on some contingency plans. At present, it seems chunk yardage is available any time the opposing O wants it.

 

[CrashPad]

Something to chew on.
McBride was considered a reasonable whipping boy for our defensive woes until.......... 1992ish, then overnight he became a guru that other coaches came to pick his brain. Why was that you ask? Look into it. You might be a bit more tolerant in understanding some of the give this time to mature crowd. Hell before the internet we as a fan base almost had Coach Osborne kicked out the door to Colorado. 1978 was a bad year.

 

[HuskerO]

Would you mind if took Jay Foreman's, Ralph Brown's, Michael Booker's and Damon Bennings opinion over yours?

Cliff notes please for us who haven't heard what those 4 have said.

 

[suhnami]

It'd be great if we had better players. But we don't have bottom of the barrel players leading to bottom of the rankings WRT passing and total defense.

We are currently 109th in total yards, 102nd yards per game, dead last at 127th total passing yards allowed and passing yards/game allowed.

These stats are directly attributable to being 2-2 and the defense basically looking like crap.

If we held teams to 50 less yards passing we'd at least be 3-1 and about 20 spots higher in the rankings. \

The defense is killing us and saying other teams won't/can't exploit these gaping holes is proving to be naive.

Add in the penalties and the situation is even worse.

 

[Harry Caray]

I'd feel a lot better about the future if we were lighting it up on the recruiting trail. But we were sitting about 40th last time I checked, behind most of the teams in our own division. It's kind of concerning as the first full recruiting class is often pretty strong for new coaches (Callahan 2005). I know there is a lot of time until signing day and I'll admit I don't follow recruiting closely, but it seems like I haven't heard about many top prospects still on our radar.

 

[huskerbaseball13]

I'd feel a lot better about the future if we were lighting it up on the recruiting trail. But we were sitting about 40th last time I checked, behind most of the teams in our own division. It's kind of concerning as the first full recruiting class is often pretty strong for new coaches (Callahan 2005). I know there is a lot of time until signing day and I'll admit I don't follow recruiting closely, but it seems like I haven't heard about many top prospects still on our radar.

That will change in a hurry once we get more commits.

 

[SilentCommit]

Exhibit A was Kalu's interception last Saturday for how the scheme needs to play out. Kalu was physical with the receiver, and owned the football in a one on one matchup. Granted they called pass interference, but you accept a few of those calls if you're playing that way consistently. Roll tape on the former coach's defense and you'll see physical play against the receivers over the years. We're not doing that this year, I'm guessing there's a reason for that. CrashPad's comment above is correct - the scheme currently being deployed is eerily similar to McBride's. McBride was widely reviled until he had a secondary with Mike and Ralph Brown. The scheme is fine, but right now it's not a good fit for who/what we are. Look, on offense, I love the design and improvements - I think the future is very bright. We need to see the defensive coaches adapt and teach the same way.

I am very positive about Nebraska, but if I remove my rose colored glasses, I see athletes in the secondary that have gotten worse across the board, not better. It's a problem.

 

[otismotis08]

I'd feel a lot better about the future if we were lighting it up on the recruiting trail. But we were sitting about 40th last time I checked, behind most of the teams in our own division. It's kind of concerning as the first full recruiting class is often pretty strong for new coaches (Callahan 2005). I know there is a lot of time until signing day and I'll admit I don't follow recruiting closely, but it seems like I haven't heard about many top prospects still on our radar.

Exactly. And don't forget to raid the JUCOs. Every year that goes by, where we haven't progressed, the shiny N become more dull.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Would you mind if took Jay Foreman's, Ralph Brown's, Michael Booker's and Damon Bennings opinion over yours?

You can take the opinion of anyone, nobody is forcing you to choose who to listen to. You can also share their opinion, if you chose, to add more to the discussion.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Is this a Banker problem then? You seem to indicate that any DC/scheme is going to get pasted without 6 solid players. So near term, there's not a lot Banker or anyone else is going to do to fix our ills to a consistent degree. Foreman seemed high on the scheme, and still does.

I don't know for sure if it's a Banker problem or not but I do know he has two other former DC's on his staff so it's not like he's in this all by himself, surrounded by inexperienced assistants. Although you have a point on near term, not being predictable is something I'm waiting for and so far through 3 games (minus USM game), we're predictable. What Brad Kaaya said in his post game is a red flag, and I'll paraphrase, but he said something about watching Oregon State film. That is a HUGE concern of mine, not just because Banker was the DC at Oregon State but also as mentioned up above, there's 2 former DC's on the staff. Maybe, and I'm just throwing darts here as it's opposite of what I'm hearing, maybe their voice isn't as strong during preparation (film study, game plan, etc)...

Former players seem to be indicating time and recruiting is what we need

Well, that's the basis of the OP however, up above @StrongArm517 indicates they aren't saying that. It could be I completely misread his response, if so someone can explain it to me then...

 

[headcard]

Cliff notes please for us who haven't heard what those 4 have said.

I would like to see this as well.

 

[jflores]

I don't really think the scheme is much at issue. It does look similar to some of the old days stuff, it also looks similar to MSU as has been noted by everyone. If there was a major "scheme fail" generally, I think we'd be seeing former players and punditry commenting what kind of weird chicken are we putting together. Kind of like Bo and the 2-gap, it couldn't die. The most we see now, is some talk about DB cushion, although we see an equal number of calls about adjustments in games and stuff. Stuff that didn't accompany Bo's 2-gap chatter in the fan base.

So then comes the question of leadership and talent. Is Banker a good teacher? He may not be the absolute best DC on the planet as was noted above, but I think he knows coaching well enough to have get us to a much higher level than we are playing now. This is one element where only time will tell, if he continually can't get it done here on Mt. Husker, then we have to look at coaching.

On the talent end, we have a lot of young players and guys that over time can get acclimated to the system and we'll see if they approach their ceiling as time rolls on.

I think bottom line for me is that time will be needed before we get a real fair evaluation. Its just going to be rough for a bit.

 

[jflores]

I don't know for sure if it's a Banker problem or not but I do know he has two other former DC's on his staff so it's not like he's in this all by himself, surrounded by inexperienced assistants. Although you have a point on near term, not being predictable is something I'm waiting for and so far through 3 games (minus USM game), we're predictable. What Brad Kaaya said in his post game is a red flag, and I'll paraphrase, but he said something about watching Oregon State film. That is a HUGE concern of mine, not just because Banker was the DC at Oregon State but also as mentioned up above, there's 2 former DC's on the staff. Maybe, and I'm just throwing darts here as it's opposite of what I'm hearing, maybe their voice isn't as strong during preparation (film study, game plan, etc)...



Well, that's the basis of the OP however, up above @StrongArm517 indicates they aren't saying that. It could be I completely misread his response, if so someone can explain it to me then...

HTO - I read your OP as being fairly critical of Banker to start, probably the most critical I've seen you be, but then you went on to explain how basically any DC was going to be screwed without "The Six". So I was confused as to whether this was aimed more at "lets see what coaching and time does" or "Banker is an idiot and what a dumb hire" type of post.

I think Strong is saying that those former players have indicated more time and recruiting are needed (a position Strong seems to agree with as do I), and that was kind of the opposite of your strong anti-Banker intro line.

 

[Tulsa Tom]

On the backside Kalu has the potential and even skills to be that second great defender. He came in as a freshman...a true frosh I believe...and played really well on a pretty solid pass defense. The problem is that we are getting torched so badly on the other side. Obviously are tackles can be stout. I had hopes for McMullen. At times last year he looked the part of a really good DE. He is nowhere near the player he was last year. For him I don't think it is a lack of talent...and I don't think it is coaching. I think it is a lack of caring.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

We're one of the worst defenses in the country,

No, we're not. Pass defense, we're one of the worst if not the worst. Run defense, not the case through four games. Overall defense, your hyperbole is noted. We've faced 2 of the top 31 scoring offenses in the country, through 4 weeks. In both of those games, we've held them under their scoring average so one can't say the reason their scoring offense is ranked so high is because they played NU.

Something to chew on.
McBride was considered a reasonable whipping boy for our defensive woes until.......... 1992ish, then overnight he became a guru that other coaches came to pick his brain. Why was that you ask? Look into it. You might be a bit more tolerant in understanding some of the give this time to mature crowd. Hell before the internet we as a fan base almost had Coach Osborne kicked out the door to Colorado. 1978 was a bad year.

Nothing to chew on, Mark Banker - and coach Riley - aren't going to have 10 years to, as you hint, "figure it out" like coach McBride did. Also, the knock on McBride wasn't his defense from game 1 to game 12, 13 or 14. The knock on his defense was it couldn't stop a couple teams a year, mostly come bowl games when Miami, Florida State & Georgia Tech had their way with us before the change to the 4-3.

Let's not recreate history, coach McBride had some damn fine defenses prior to 1992...

 

[Soda Popinski]

I think it's really pretty simple why it's so easy to pass against us. When you're running a scheme that is designed to put DB's on an island, have not been teaching this scheme until this year, and have effectively no pass rush, you're gonna get picked apart.

I think we have some guys that can emerge and become pretty good DB's, but switching from what we were running to what we're currently running is like the perfect storm considering our lack of talent/depth at DE and LB to create pressure on the QB.

Bottom line: without a pass rush, we can't mask that the guys in the secondary are swimming in their new assignments.

 

[NikkiSixx]

I def would like to see defensive backfield all play aggressive like Kalu did. You're going to get burned once in awhile yes, but to me, it's better than sitting back and getting picked apart all day.

McMullen doesn't look like he even belongs out there.. lots of isolated gif images people have posted lately, and he's consistently a couple of steps slow getting off the ball. I wonder if he was hurt or something? I was VERY surprised to see him in pass coverage on that one play last saturday.

 

[mkbrkloster]

I def would like to see defensive backfield all play aggressive like Kalu did. You're going to get burned once in awhile yes, but to me, it's better than sitting back and getting picked apart all day.

I'd agree here. Need to be more physical at the line of scrimmage to disrupt the timing and routes.

It is interesting that in Spring ball, we heard that our offense had trouble running the ball consistently, and our defense gave up a lot of big passing plays. Now, in season, our offense has trouble running the ball consistently, our rushing D is top 10 in the country, and our pass D is statistically the worst in the country. So, is it coaching or players? Yes, it is.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

HTO - I read your OP as being fairly critical of Banker to start, probably the most critical I've seen you be, but then you went on to explain how basically any DC was going to be screwed without "The Six". So I was confused as to whether this was aimed more at "lets see what coaching and time does" or "Banker is an idiot and what a dumb hire" type of post.

I think Strong is saying that those former players have indicated more time and recruiting are needed (a position Strong seems to agree with as do I), and that was kind of the opposite of your strong anti-Banker intro line.

Well, you missed it then when his hire was announced, I was extremely vocal against it. I eased in to it when Hughes and Stewart were announced as it brings 4 additional sets of eyes that have coordinator experience, one known for having a strong mind with run defense and another that has experience at the highest levels plus the 3-4. My thought was - and still is - maybe, just maybe, the additional experience on the staff, both that didn't work with or for him at Oregon State, will benefit Banker.

It's a mixture of both but that's what I was getting at with the rest of the OP. IMO, @StrongArm517 and you have put too much emphasis in to 1 sentence early on instead of the overall message. The 1 sentence on Banker was more of a qualifier, nothing else. I felt I was clear on that with 5 additional paragraphs, none referencing him whatsoever, but regardless, it's my message and I'll take the blame for not being clear.

Anyone curious what happened up above to where we're at now? Go look at who is in our roster and tell me who the 2 guys are in level 1, 2 guys in level 2 and 2 guys in level 3. I already helped out with (level 1) Collins, (level 2) Bando / Rose-Ivey and (level 3) Gerry. Sure, there's potential however, that's all it is right now.

^^ if former players are saying we need additional talent, I'm not exactly sure how that's different than what I stated in the OP ^^

Now, when the talent gets here - whether it's redshirting or in future classes - if it ever does, can Banker do something with it? For me, that is part of why I posted this...

That potential (talent) has to be coached - just like the potential (talent) had to be coached back in 2009.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

@Archie Graham brought something up in a different thread, one that I'll include here....

Giving up 400 yards a game is basically standard at this point.

Interesting you say this, 15 seasons should be a large enough sample size.

Number of teams that give up less than 400 total yards a game
2014 - 69 defenses (Nebraska 383.7)
2013 - 62 defenses (Nebraska 370.7)
2012 - 65 defenses (Nebraska 360.6)
2011 - 75 defenses (Nebraska 350.7)
2010 - 82 defenses (Nebraska 306.8)
2009 - 87 defenses (Nebraska 271.3)
2008 - 91 defenses (Nebraska 349.8)
2007 - 68 defenses (Nebraska 476.8)
2006 - 108 defenses (Nebraska 331.8)
2005 - 76 defenses (Nebraska 332.1)
2004 - 79 defenses (Nebraska 371.6)
2003 - 77 defenses (Nebraska 297.1)
2002 - 80 defenses (Nebraska 361.9)
2001 - 78 defenses (Nebraska 287.1)
2000 - 79 defenses (Nebraska 321.8)

 

[WuTang_Husker]

For me it's hard to hate Banker right now. The fact that he has thrown everything at the problems on defense at least show he is willing to change(even in game), Miami was a great example of this.

Couple that with the injuries which are at critical low depth positions and it's really hard to hate him.

At some point excuses have to stop, but Banker so far get's an A for effort. D+ for execution.
The schedule from here on gives him a chance to improve that grade substantially against teams that for the most part(Minus MSU) have much less talent.

How he fares against the B10 west will be very telling.

 

[Tulsa Tom]

Good stuff on the numbers. It is interesting that the numbers are downward in the number of teams giving up 400 yards.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Would you mind if took Jay Foreman's, Ralph Brown's, Michael Booker's and Damon Bennings opinion over yours?

Request #2 to share...

 

[suhnami]

Here is Benning from today.

https://soundcloud.com/unsportsmanl...-14-the-damon-benning-breakdown-southern-miss

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Not clicking on the link, someone mentioned him so that person - or someone else - can post out what he stated.

 

[Nebraska Gator II]

everyone's whipping boy O'Hanlon

I miss Patches O'Hanlon

 

[redfanusa]

The defense stinks. Is it talent or coaching? You an't have that kind of sucktitude without it being both.

Since college football doesn't allow trades, and there is no mid-season signing period, the coaches must do their best with what they have. But they need to make some adjustments and find some life from this group. It is painful to watch.