Herd Immunity Math

[RaisingArizona]

I don’t support Biden since he will raise Corp taxes, capital gains tax, and income tax. Raising taxes will slow economic growth.

If you actually look at the historical correlation between corporate tax rate and GDP growth this isn’t actually true. It does in fact depend on how these tax proceeds are spent but if they are for instance invested in sorely needed infrastructure projects higher corporate taxes could actually be a catalyst for increased economic growth. Higher corporate taxes does put some onus on government acting wisely however and I do understood your justified skepticism of that angle.

Here is an interesting older analysis on the topic from a non partisan think tank.

Corporate tax rates and economic growth since 1947

Cutting corporate taxes won't spur economic growth, and there is no evidence that high corporate taxes have a negative impact on the economy. In fact, there is no correlation at all between corporate tax rates and economic growth.

www.epi.org

 

[TampaBaySkers]

It's not just about Trump's policies, it's his utter lack of skill as a politician. I know the Repubs on the board love his coarse manner because they love to see everyone else squirm, but even as you revel in his truly abhorrent behavior, you miss the domestic and international significant. You can say that you don't care about the rest of the world, but that speaks to ignorance of the U.S. role in the world. You can say all of the discord is sparked by the left, but that speaks to ignorance of the right wing role in sowing discord. You can say I'm emotional, but for the average citizen politics is emotion, after all. You vote on taxes, fine, but part of that elicits an emotional response, and the same is true for people who suffer as a result of Trump's tax policies. You cheer, and the opposition sneers, and vice versa. People don't just vote with their pocket book, they vote because of what they think a tax policy or social issue means to them, their families and their communities. It's all emotion.

Will you please use paragraphs.

That’s fine if you vote on emotion. Go for it. I vote with my head, not heart. My vote typically is determined by fiscal policy.

 

[cornhead1]

And Obama won Nobel prize. For what? Pulitzers are a joke and you know it. Hell nyt got one for russiagate reporting. Let that sink in. Liberals congratulating themselves.

 

[Capdanjou]

I want to see all politicians tax returns. How did they become millionaires & make millions while in office?
Why aren’t all politicians on Obama care?

Makes no difference to me of party affiliation. If tax laws are outdated, do your job and get it right.
I love my country and despise traitors.

Are you equating

Will you please use paragraphs.

That’s fine if you vote on emotion. Go for it. I vote with my head, not heart. My vote typically is determined by fiscal policy.

You can't even be honest with yourself. If you can't understand that politics is emotion, and you believe that you're just some level headed dude you argues far right conspiracies on a football message board, then I don't have much hope that these conversations will move much beyond insult and condescension.

 

[Capdanjou]

And Obama won Nobel prize. For what? Pulitzers are a joke and you know it. Hell nyt got one for russiagate reporting. Let that sink in. Liberals congratulating themselves.

Are you mad that Fox hasn't one a Pulitzer? Trump will go down as the worst president in history. Just knowing that fact makes me happy.

 

[TampaBaySkers]

If you actually look at the historical correlation between corporate tax rate and GDP growth this isn’t actually true. It does in fact depend on how these tax proceeds are spent but if they are for instance invested in sorely needed infrastructure projects higher corporate taxes could actually be a catalyst for increased economic growth. Higher corporate taxes does put some onus on government acting wisely however and I do understood your justified skepticism of that angle.

Here is an interesting older analysis on the topic from a non partisan think tank.

Corporate tax rates and economic growth since 1947

Cutting corporate taxes won't spur economic growth, and there is no evidence that high corporate taxes have a negative impact on the economy. In fact, there is no correlation at all between corporate tax rates and economic growth.

www.epi.org

I tend to disagree, but I know we can both Google search for articles that agree with our worldview.

I hope we can both agree that a 35% corporate tax rate was too high.

Moving Jobs and Profits Overseas
Higher corporate taxes don't just hit corporations. They have a ripple effect on the economy as a whole as well as American workers. When they're forced to pay higher taxes at home, many U.S. companies relocate to countries with more favorable tax laws. When these companies move their headquarters or create foreign subsidiaries, jobs and profits also move overseas. In fact, the number of U.S. jobs at major multinational corporations tends to shrink when they move their operations to another country.


“(A) high corporate income tax rate puts the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage versus lower-taxed nations like Ireland and Canada in the effort to attract new corporate investment and jobs,” said John Boyd, Jr., principal of The Boyd Company, a Princeton, N.J.-based firm that counsels major corporations on where to locate their facilities and invest globally.

 

[TampaBaySkers]

Are you equating

You can't even be honest with yourself. If you can't understand that politics is emotion, and you believe that you're just some level headed dude you argues far right conspiracies on a football message board, then I don't have much hope that these conversations will move much beyond insult and condescension.

What conspiracy have I alluded to? You’re the only the one talking conspiracies.

 

[Capdanjou]

What conspiracy have I alluded to? You’re the only the one talking conspiracies.

name one

 

[TampaBaySkers]

name one

Trump has never made money, and his wealth is some sort of Ponzi scheme is a pretty wild conspiracy theory.

I would love to stay and chat; However, I have big boy job that pays big boy money to get to.

Since you have some downtime, I’d like you to write a three page paper on the the history of fascism. So help me God if you write just one giant paragraph. Try to finish by the end of day, and we can review it.

 

[RaisingArizona]

I tend to disagree, but I know we can both Google search for articles that agree with our worldview.

I hope we can both agree that a 35% corporate tax rate was too high.

Moving Jobs and Profits Overseas
Higher corporate taxes don't just hit corporations. They have a ripple effect on the economy as a whole as well as American workers. When they're forced to pay higher taxes at home, many U.S. companies relocate to countries with more favorable tax laws. When these companies move their headquarters or create foreign subsidiaries, jobs and profits also move overseas. In fact, the number of U.S. jobs at major multinational corporations tends to shrink when they move their operations to another country.


“(A) high corporate income tax rate puts the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage versus lower-taxed nations like Ireland and Canada in the effort to attract new corporate investment and jobs,” said John Boyd, Jr., principal of The Boyd Company, a Princeton, N.J.-based firm that counsels major corporations on where to locate their facilities and invest globally.

You can tend to disagree but the data is not on your side. Here is GDP growth by year. It’s quite clear that despite the lowered corporate tax rate growth still fell within normal parameters during the last few years. Though economic performance of course has a cyclical nature it is quite evident that the prior 35% tax rate did not impede economic growth in the way that you are suggesting.

US Real GDP Growth Rate by Year

US Real GDP Growth Rate table by year, historic, and current data. Current US Real GDP Growth Rate is 1.86%.

www.multpl.com

 

[TampaBaySkers]

You can tend to disagree but the data is not on your side. Here is GDP growth by year. It’s quite clear that despite the lowered corporate tax rate growth still fell within normal parameters during the last few years. Though economic performance of course has a cyclical nature it is quite evident that the prior 35% tax rate did not impede economic growth in the way that you are suggesting.

US Real GDP Growth Rate by Year

US Real GDP Growth Rate table by year, historic, and current data. Current US Real GDP Growth Rate is 1.86%.

www.multpl.com

It certainly affects unemployment and overall job growth. GDP is not the only measure of economic growth, but understand why that is the only measure you want to focus on.

If Biden wins and increases Corp tax rate to 28% we will see what happens. We can compare year 3 to year 3 of each administration. I believe GDP, unemployment rate, and stock market will be worse under Biden.

Care to discuss my other two points...Increase capital gains and income tax? If you’re a Democrat and like increased taxes to give government more spend power I understand. I don’t agree with it, but I understand the philosophy.

 

[TampaBaySkers]

You can tend to disagree but the data is not on your side. Here is GDP growth by year. It’s quite clear that despite the lowered corporate tax rate growth still fell within normal parameters during the last few years. Though economic performance of course has a cyclical nature it is quite evident that the prior 35% tax rate did not impede economic growth in the way that you are suggesting.

US Real GDP Growth Rate by Year

US Real GDP Growth Rate table by year, historic, and current data. Current US Real GDP Growth Rate is 1.86%.

www.multpl.com

First three years average GDP growth:
Obama - 1.45
Trump - 2.51

 

[dinglefritz]

It's not just about Trump's policies, it's his utter lack of skill as a politician. I know the Repubs on the board love his coarse manner because they love to see everyone else squirm, but even as you revel in his truly abhorrent behavior, you miss the domestic and international significant. You can say that you don't care about the rest of the world, but that speaks to ignorance of the U.S. role in the world. You can say all of the discord is sparked by the left, but that speaks to ignorance of the right wing role in sowing discord. You can say I'm emotional, but for the average citizen politics is emotion, after all. You vote on taxes, fine, but part of that elicits an emotional response, and the same is true for people who suffer as a result of Trump's tax policies. You cheer, and the opposition sneers, and vice versa. People don't just vote with their pocket book, they vote because of what they think a tax policy or social issue means to them, their families and their communities. It's all emotion.

Every single Republican I know of HATES Trumps coarse manners and his tweeting. Every single one. BUT every one likes his policies and refusal to bend over for China and Iran. I know of NO ONE who has "suffered because of Trump's tax policies". Every single family I know had more disposable income at the end of the year because of Trump's policies. Trump's Middle East policies are going to end up being maybe one the most significant things to stabilize that area for a long time. Bush's and Obama's "Arab Spring" was a colossal mistake.

 

[dinglefritz]

Hmmm look at that.

View embedded media

There was another recent WHO study done in Europe by a cardiology specialty unit that in FACT Hydroxycholoquine did NOT increase the risk of heart problems in COVID patients without prior EKG abnormalities.

 

[Capdanjou]

Every single Republican I know of HATES Trumps coarse manners and his tweeting. Every single one. BUT every one likes his policies and refusal to bend over for China and Iran. I know of NO ONE who has "suffered because of Trump's tax policies". Every single family I know had more disposable income at the end of the year because of Trump's policies. Trump's Middle East policies are going to end up being maybe one the most significant things to stabilize that area for a long time. Bush's and Obama's "Arab Spring" was a colossal mistake.

If you know of no one who has suffered as a result of his economic policies, then your social circle is not very diverse. On his policies with China, I am much more in the Republican camp than Democratic camp on this issue. I have said and truly believe that China poses the biggest threat to the US and the world over the next century. Iran is a threat, and so is Russia, but China has turned the WTO and the international liberal order on its head to its advantage. Even if the WTO needed revisions, think about the significance of our gamble that China would simply conform once in the WTO. Instead they manipulated the organization to suit its interests, seizing power in dramatic fashion. Their massive belt and road initiative is making strategic inroads into the Middle East and beginning to dominate the high seas around Asia and Africa. I'm not sure Trump has made all the right moves, but he did start us on a path of challenging China, which was desperately needed.

 

[Crazyhole]

If you know of no one who has suffered as a result of his economic policies, then your social circle is not very diverse. On his policies with China, I am much more in the Republican camp than Democratic camp on this issue. I have said and truly believe that China poses the biggest threat to the US and the world over the next century. Iran is a threat, and so is Russia, but China has turned the WTO and the international liberal order on its head to its advantage. Even if the WTO needed revisions, think about the significance of our gamble that China would simply conform once in the WTO. Instead they manipulated the organization to suit its interests, seizing power in dramatic fashion. Their massive belt and road initiative is making strategic inroads into the Middle East and beginning to dominate the high seas around Asia and Africa. I'm not sure Trump has made all the right moves, but he did start us on a path of challenging China, which was desperately needed.

China is doing the same thing the US and UK did in the 1950s.

 

[Capdanjou]

China is doing the same thing the US and UK did in the 1950s.

No, they aren't. What China is doing is significantly more nefarious.

 

[dinglefritz]

If you know of no one who has suffered as a result of his economic policies, then your social circle is not very diverse. On his policies with China, I am much more in the Republican camp than Democratic camp on this issue. I have said and truly believe that China poses the biggest threat to the US and the world over the next century. Iran is a threat, and so is Russia, but China has turned the WTO and the international liberal order on its head to its advantage. Even if the WTO needed revisions, think about the significance of our gamble that China would simply conform once in the WTO. Instead they manipulated the organization to suit its interests, seizing power in dramatic fashion. Their massive belt and road initiative is making strategic inroads into the Middle East and beginning to dominate the high seas around Asia and Africa. I'm not sure Trump has made all the right moves, but he did start us on a path of challenging China, which was desperately needed.

I have a large circle of friends from church starting with some previously long term unemployed, elderly social security survivalists, factory workers all the way up to cardiologists and CEOs of large healthcare institutions. You need to show me exactly who suffered under Trump's tax policies. It didn't happen. There were more jobs and wages expanded tremendously in our area. Middle class families had more take home pay.

 

[dinglefritz]

No, they aren't. What China is doing is significantly more nefarious.

That is ONE of your posts I will agree with. They are not to be trusted on any level.

 

[Capdanjou]

That is ONE of your posts I will agree with. They are not to be trusted on any level.

I'm not a China hater, but politically it is a bad actor and the US is really the only country in a position to challenge them. But after years of no action, now we're in need of building coalitions, which we've already begun, ie. India. I've been watching the border dispute between China and India closely. India does not have the military might to take on China, but if that conflict escalates further I do wonder if the US is compelled to get involved on some level.

 

[mwulf]

So you hate all politicians then right? They have all cheated.

Liked Obama and Bush...they seemed like genuine good dudes

 

[RaisingArizona]

Care to discuss my other two points...Increase capital gains and income tax?

Sure. And for what it’s worth I very much appreciate you civility which allows for a productive back and forth.

Full disclosure, I am a Democrat but I’m also a small business owner. Therefore I’m left of center but not remarkably so. Just to add some color to that comment, Michael Bennett was my preferred presidential candidate. I guess that probably makes me a bit of a boring old school democrat.

I would prefer that capital gains remain as they are. As for income tax I do think the top tax rate should creep back up a bit but that is probably meaningless if the code isn’t tightened up and loopholes closed.

My most strongly held convictions are as follows:

1 while I’m rarely in agreement with Elizabeth Warren I do believe that her wealth tax makes a ton of sense. Somewhere between 2-3%. We’d have to figure out how to administrate that but it can certainly be done. With the top .01% holding over 1/5 of the countries wealth that is IMO what to target in order to address the country’s issue with wealth disparity. I’m not suggesting that be a straight handout to the poor but instead housing, educational, child and healthcare assistance to allow them the opportunity to rise out of their current situation.

2 in the future I absolutely do believe that a basic living wage will be necessary to offset the extreme global unemployment caused by A.I.and robotics. I think Andrew Yang (who I admittedly am a big fan of) is correct that the fair way to address this is with tax revenue generated from the companies that are making billions by replacing these jobs through automation.

My apologies if I talked around your question. It was probably a more general response then you were looking for. I’m not a tax professional so I can’t really get too deep into the weeds on the topic but in general I do feel like efforts to strengthen and grow the middle class need to leave the realm of talking point and get to where we are taking active measures. I believe that additional taxation of the uber wealthy is the best way to fund these efforts and that the wealth tax is the best way to defeat the top .01%’s current strategies to work around our tax code.