Herd Immunity Math

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RaisingArizona

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This is just a hunch, but I have a feeling that Trumps loans probably came from his own corporations or from foreign banks. Its possible that he used one of his corporations to borrow money from a domestic bank and then turned around and loaned money to himself from those proceeds, which would be consistent with why his audits have gone on for so long. Things get pretty complicated when you are moving money back and forth between personal holdings and corporations that you own. Ive done it several times and my stuff is nowhere near as complex as what Trump has. On top of that, he can make a legitimate case that his brand is an actual business. Because of that, he can make a legal case that doing something like buying a golf course that perennially loses money is actually an asset because by having his name on it improves his brand, which is a legitimate deduction. None of this is as cut and dried as either he is a failed businessman or he is committing tax fraud.
We shall see. I do believe that my money laundering hypothesis (if proven true) will end up being quite cut and dry.
 

Lincoln100

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I really try to find a redeeming quality of the modern left.
From what I see, they offer no redemption, no forgiveness, no mercy; only division, hate, restriction of liberties and pandering under the guise of generosity that never seems to come to fruition.
No, some offer redemption, in the form of pitching in $$$ to the get-out-of-jail-free fund for rioters and criminals to go perp at will.
 

Crazyhole

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So we’re now listening to a radiologist (highly controversial one) instead of infectious disease Docs and epidemiologists? My sarcasm meter is running low today- tell us you were trolling by leading with Atlas
As opposed to listening to the "worlds leading infectious disease expert", who after 9 months, the best advice and insight he can come up with is to wear a mask? At some point dont people have to recognize that there is a level of fear-mongering going on when we can see actual numbers as a point of reference that don't equate?
 

kidofSN

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Good friend of mine taken to the hospital yesterday. He had been a doubter of the virus. He is way overweight and in his upper seventies. Doubtful he comes home. Except overweight he was in good health. It is just now starting to hit small town Nebraska.
 

GammaxuvirHusker

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Good friend of mine taken to the hospital yesterday. He had been a doubter of the virus. He is way overweight and in his upper seventies. Doubtful he comes home. Except overweight he was in good health. It is just now starting to hit small town Nebraska.
"Except overweight he was in good health." = not in good health.

He's precisely the type of person who this virus (like all illnesses) hits the hardest, old and in poor health. I wish him luck.
 

Huskercjb

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The NYT also notoriously ran cover for Hitler and Stalin. They worked with Comey to start the Russia hoax that consumed much of US politics for two and half years. It's all a big circle fest between these left-leaning propaganda mills. They report the "news" that they want to report on and only in the context they want their viewers to see it, and they simply ignore what they don't want their readers to know.

We live in a time where the vast majority of our news sources are partisans who have no intention on reporting just the facts. They all report the version they want you to see and some of you are so far gone that you're completely unaware that so much of what you know isn't so. There are too many people who rely on their phones to tell them what the weather is rather than actually going outside and experiencing it in reality.
Whatever. I'm guessing you like FOX, Breitbart, and/or Druge. Now there's some propaganda.
 
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Huskercjb

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I'll vote for Biden, but I think he's a terrible candidate. I thought the field offered better choices than what the party ended up with. He's flawed as hell, and has a long record of very questionable decision making, which anybody who has been in the game as long as he has surely will. So yea, I'm serious when I say I thought it was pretty uninspiring when he won the nomination.
I don't disagree. Like I posted, given the options...
 

dinglefritz

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So we’re now listening to a radiologist (highly controversial one) instead of infectious disease Docs and epidemiologists? My sarcasm meter is running low today- tell us you were trolling by leading with Atlas
Incidentally a LONG time infectious disease specialist at the CDC was forced to retire because it came to light that he was posting on social media under an alias calling Fauci the "mask Nazi". Apparently not all long serving infectious disease staffers at the CDC think as much of Fauci as he seems to think of himself and his often erroneous guidance.
 
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dinglefritz

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This is true, Corona virus is less likely to mutate and changes it proteins as influenza does. I am not worried about safety. Risk vs benefit is by far in favor of patients.
The biggest thing is we're dealing right off the bat with 2 different types of Influenza viruses and it's a guess as to which one will be the predominant one. THEN you add in the rapidly evolving mutations with influenza viruses which makes it really tough. Corona viruses do mutate but IF need be I believe we'll be able to quickly respond to that without having to go through the whole approval process all over again.
 

Crazyhole

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Anyway, about that herd immunity. So do you guys think we're getting close or not?
Its not that simple. We have herd immunity to influenza but people still catch it and some die. Its not a black and white line where we will ever be able to say "hooray! we beat covid!".
 
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GBRforLife1

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Anyway, about that herd immunity. So do you guys think we're getting close or not?
Based on everything I've seen I think we are.

The 60-70% infection requirement is garbage. % will be much lower.

People under 60 unless moderately ill should not be getting tested. The testing is driving the casedemic fear mongering.

There are ares of the country, especially the plain states, that haven't been really hit. Expect that the next 2 months. The virus definitely hasn't impacted the US at the same rate at the same time.

Hospitalizations are low nationally and declining. Same for deaths. Recent cases seem to be related to massive over testing of schools and colleges. Which if they'd have stayed open would have likely already been over with zero deaths and near zero hospitalizations it's brought.

The shut downs have dragged this out much longer than needed. Every step taken with good intentions has been the wrong one. Everything should have been open in June so this would all be over by Labor Day. But we've been lied to and misled by almost every level of the govt and the media has pushed it to incredible levels of propaganda along with the virtue signalling Karens.
 
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GBRforLife1

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Its not that simple. We have herd immunity to influenza but people still catch it and some die. Its not a black and white line where we will ever be able to say "hooray! we beat covid!".
Herd immunity does not mean no one catches it and no one dies.
 
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GBRforLife1

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Incidentally a LONG time infectious disease specialist at the CDC was forced to retire because it came to light that he was posting on social media under an alias calling Fauci the "mask Nazi". Apparently not all long serving infectious disease staffers at the CDC thing as much of Fauci as he seems to think of himself and his often erroneous guidance.
I think you may be overstating his position from what I read, but quite issue they had there.
 

GBRforLife1

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So we’re now listening to a radiologist (highly controversial one) instead of infectious disease Docs and epidemiologists? My sarcasm meter is running low today- tell us you were trolling by leading with Atlas
So you're telling us you believe only one kind of doctor can make a judgement off a study?

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest lib talking points in the last 2 weeks.
 
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GBRforLife1

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Good friend of mine taken to the hospital yesterday. He had been a doubter of the virus. He is way overweight and in his upper seventies. Doubtful he comes home. Except overweight he was in good health. It is just now starting to hit small town Nebraska.
Fat and near life expectancy... except for that he was in good health.
 
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GBRforLife1

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The New York Times has been in business since 1841. It has won 130 Pulitzer Prizes, more than any other news source. Ad Fontes Media, an independent media rating source rates the NYT as neutral and balanced and highly reliable, so there's that. As Lindsey Graham said, DJT is a "race baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot." Trump has schemed and scammed all of his life. It's finally catching up with him.
A media company called another media company neutral and balance. Well that solves it then.

Is that the level of discerning thought that got you through clown college?

The NYT has done some very good work. Lately they've had A LOT of garbage and their leftist bias is very apparent. An editor resigned over their liberal bias. I wonder what's changed?

 

dinglefritz

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Good friend of mine taken to the hospital yesterday. He had been a doubter of the virus. He is way overweight and in his upper seventies. Doubtful he comes home. Except overweight he was in good health. It is just now starting to hit small town Nebraska.
If he was "way over weight" he wasn't in good health. I hope he does okay. He's got 2 strikes with his age and weight but it just varies wildly from person to person on how they do.
 

Capdanjou

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Wow you are unhinged. Take a breath....it will be okay..... Stop embarrasing yourself.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who of sound mind and body supports the train wreck that is Donald Trump is making of fool of themselves. Let me see if I can understand the logic. You like the man because he is making America great and forcing other nations to respect American greatness. How's that going? Cities across the nation on fire. Check. Greatest division in a half century. Check. Worst response to a crisis in living memory. Check. Countries around the world laughing at us. Check. Dictators smiling at us. Check. You were saying?
 
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leodisflowers

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Anyone, and I mean anyone, who of sound mind and body supports the train wreck that is Donald Trump is making of fool of themselves. Let me see if I can understand the logic. You like the man because he is making America great and forcing other nations to respect American greatness. How's that going? Cities across the nation on fire. Check. Greatest division in a half century. Check. Worst response to a crisis in living memory. Check. Countries around the world laughing at us. Check. Dictators smiling at us. Check. You were saying?
Jesus dude. I'm not a Donald Trump fan, but do you know why these cities are on fire? Antifa & BLM are the ones burning the cities to which Donald Trump has offered support to try and quell the madness. Now we can debate about what led to this, but blaming everything on Trump is comical.

As far as the Covid crisis, once again you blame Trump for everything. The US operates under a Federalist system. The states were in the lead and the Federal government was to provide assistance. Cuomo, Newsome and many other governors are on record stating they got everything they needed from the Federal Government and they hate Donald Trump with a passion.

I usually try not to engage in the politics going on right now because I feel like either way our country is going down the tubes, but some of the crap you continue to peddle is just nonsense. Biden is an old man that is deteriorating before our eyes that has never had an original thought of his own and will be lucky to serve out his term with a nut bag waiting in the wings. Trump is a scumbag and can't shut his mouth. He's similar to all of the Presidents in my lifetime though where no matter if you love or hate him he really hasn't done much to affect my life in anyway and most Americans would probably say the same except they can't get over their TDS or undying love for the guy. Maybe some day we will get have more than a two party system and have some actually good candidates to vote for to help move the country forward.
 

Capdanjou

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Jesus dude. I'm not a Donald Trump fan, but do you know why these cities are on fire? Antifa & BLM are the ones burning the cities to which Donald Trump has offered support to try and quell the madness. Now we can debate about what led to this, but blaming everything on Trump is comical.

As far as the Covid crisis, once again you blame Trump for everything. The US operates under a Federalist system. The states were in the lead and the Federal government was to provide assistance. Cuomo, Newsome and many other governors are on record stating they got everything they needed from the Federal Government and they hate Donald Trump with a passion.

I usually try not to engage in the politics going on right now because I feel like either way our country is going down the tubes, but some of the crap you continue to peddle is just nonsense. Biden is an old man that is deteriorating before our eyes that has never had an original thought of his own and will be lucky to serve out his term with a nut bag waiting in the wings. Trump is a scumbag and can't shut his mouth. He's similar to all of the Presidents in my lifetime though where no matter if you love or hate him he really hasn't done much to affect my life in anyway and most Americans would probably say the same except they can't get over their TDS or undying love for the guy. Maybe some day we will get have more than a two party system and have some actually good candidates to vote for to help move the country forward.
You forgot white nationalist militias, Trump's buddies. He's offered support in the most disingenuous way possible that would have almost certainly made the situation worse. Blaming one side for all the problems, dog whistling to radial righties, then saying "oh, I can help if you kiss my fat butt." For a bunch of snowflakes who feel condescended to all the time by the left, I'm wondering if a person could be more condescending than Trump. And accusing BLM of all of the violence shows great ignorance. Of course, there are some who have engaged in violence, but what you and the ultra extremist righties on this board are doing is conflating an otherwise peaceful message and movement with a few people who associated themselves with the organization.
 

Capdanjou

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Jesus dude. I'm not a Donald Trump fan, but do you know why these cities are on fire? Antifa & BLM are the ones burning the cities to which Donald Trump has offered support to try and quell the madness. Now we can debate about what led to this, but blaming everything on Trump is comical.

As far as the Covid crisis, once again you blame Trump for everything. The US operates under a Federalist system. The states were in the lead and the Federal government was to provide assistance. Cuomo, Newsome and many other governors are on record stating they got everything they needed from the Federal Government and they hate Donald Trump with a passion.

I usually try not to engage in the politics going on right now because I feel like either way our country is going down the tubes, but some of the crap you continue to peddle is just nonsense. Biden is an old man that is deteriorating before our eyes that has never had an original thought of his own and will be lucky to serve out his term with a nut bag waiting in the wings. Trump is a scumbag and can't shut his mouth. He's similar to all of the Presidents in my lifetime though where no matter if you love or hate him he really hasn't done much to affect my life in anyway and most Americans would probably say the same except they can't get over their TDS or undying love for the guy. Maybe some day we will get have more than a two party system and have some actually good candidates to vote for to help move the country forward.
He's the president. If you've ever paid even the slightest bit of attention to politics you would know that presidents get more credit for things than they deserve, and they get more blame than they deserve. If Trump wants to own all the credit for economic successes that have occurred under his administration, despite the fact that he inherited a growing economy, then he must accept a corresponding amount of blame for his handling of the pandemic. That's just how it works. Trump and his minions want to pretend like Obama didn't turn around a dumpster fire economy. You can pretend all you want, but you forfeit credibility. Similarly, Trump stood up on the debate stage like a fat toad and actually tried to make the argument that Obama's administration was a mess in response to the swine flu. I'm not here to defend Obama's response, but what I can say is you have to be a massive idiot to buy that line a crap. Trump could have owned this thing, all but sealing his reelection, but no, he is an awful manager. He pissed it all away, and went to what he does best, blame everyone else for everything, accept all the credit for anything good. Maybe that works in real estate or reality TV, but that is not how people respond to politics. That's why the parties flip flop. After a few years people get pissed, and vote out the party in power.
 

Sinomatic

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He's the president. If you've ever paid even the slightest bit of attention to politics you would know that presidents get more credit for things than they deserve, and they get more blame than they deserve. If Trump wants to own all the credit for economic successes that have occurred under his administration, despite the fact that he inherited a growing economy, then he must accept a corresponding amount of blame for his handling of the pandemic. That's just how it works. Trump and his minions want to pretend like Obama didn't turn around a dumpster fire economy. You can pretend all you want, but you forfeit credibility. Similarly, Trump stood up on the debate stage like a fat toad and actually tried to make the argument that Obama's administration was a mess in response to the swine flu. I'm not here to defend Obama's response, but what I can say is you have to be a massive idiot to buy that line a crap. Trump could have owned this thing, all but sealing his reelection, but no, he is an awful manager. He pissed it all away, and went to what he does best, blame everyone else for everything, accept all the credit for anything good. Maybe that works in real estate or reality TV, but that is not how people respond to politics. That's why the parties flip flop. After a few years people get pissed, and vote out the party in power.
The economy has only been "saved" by the last 3 presidents and congress by borrowing money, tons and tons of money.

No president is saving this economy from the 30s on out, they are only kicking the can down the road and that is all they'll be able to do until it collapses.

I thought it was Nixon that got us off the gold standard and I was wrong. It was Franklin D. Roosevelt. That man put the bullet in our gut. We're dying, it's just that we're dying slow. Obama didn't save nothing. No other president did either and none of them will be able to save the dollar. Thank FDR for that one. Gold standard might not have given us superpower status but we wouldn't be swimming in this much debt if we had stayed on a gold standard.
 
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leodisflowers

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You forgot white nationalist militias, Trump's buddies. He's offered support in the most disingenuous way possible that would have almost certainly made the situation worse. Blaming one side for all the problems, dog whistling to radial righties, then saying "oh, I can help if you kiss my fat butt." For a bunch of snowflakes who feel condescended to all the time by the left, I'm wondering if a person could be more condescending than Trump. And accusing BLM of all of the violence shows great ignorance. Of course, there are some who have engaged in violence, but what you and the ultra extremist righties on this board are doing is conflating an otherwise peaceful message and movement with a few people who associated themselves with the organization.
You are falling into your ultra-left liberal agenda again dude. I'm not alt right, I'm a rational person that doesn't play sides for the most part. If you can't see that the reason the majority of these cities are burning are due to BLM and Antifa I don't know what to tell you. Yes there are occurrences of alt-right groups getting involved, and they should be called out as well. Cities shouldn't be burning period no matter the group, but most of the destruction is being caused by left leaning groups at the current time and you continuing to say otherwise just makes you look bad. But I'll let you and the others carry on....
 

TampaBaySkers

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Wow, that's the best you got? Your fascist dictator just got totally exposed, it's world news, and all you've got is another tired teleprompter quip? You are such a triggered little piggie. Should we come up with a safe word for you, so that your sensitive little ears don't get hurt by the truth?
Dictator? He is the worst dictator in history then. Dictators typically raise taxes to weaken their people and give more power to government. Hate Trump all you want, but you sound unintelligent. I also want you to look up what fascist means.

Dictatorships typically rise out of socialism. History shows is that.
 

TampaBaySkers

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I come back to the basic point. He has to be very much audited by the IRS every year. If there was anything illegal why wouldn't the IRS have found it and sued him? All of his critics have no answer for that logic.
Exactly! I also though republicans were being dumb when they were demanding to see Obama’s birth certificate. Both of these demands are silly, and meant to serve has political attacks.
 

Capdanjou

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Dictator? He is the worst dictator in history then. Dictators typically raise taxes to weaken their people and give more power to government. Hate Trump all you want, but you sound unintelligent. I also want you to look up what fascist means.

Dictatorships typically rise out of socialism. History shows is that.
Fascism: a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition...
Sounds about right.
 

TampaBaySkers

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Honestly anything that comes out that makes him look bad I'm fine with. That's is my admitted bias. He has cheated in every aspect of his adult life. Cheated on all three wives, in school, in business, his real estate disclosures were fabricated. He has shown the only real measurement he values is financial and that's been a lie too. It's just a pattern that his tax practices are shady as well. We deserve better as country and he isn't it. Either is Biden by the way. Let's shoot for greatness.
So you hate all politicians then right? They have all cheated.
 

GBRforLife1

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Anyone, and I mean anyone, who of sound mind and body supports the train wreck that is Donald Trump is making of fool of themselves. Let me see if I can understand the logic. You like the man because he is making America great and forcing other nations to respect American greatness. How's that going? Cities across the nation on fire. Check. Greatest division in a half century. Check. Worst response to a crisis in living memory. Check. Countries around the world laughing at us. Check. Dictators smiling at us. Check. You were saying?
Get help.
 

TampaBaySkers

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Fascism: a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition...
Sounds about right.
As much as we should use Wiki, let’s go with a more reliable source.. Merriam.

A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocraticgovernment headed by a dictatorialleader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

It what way has Trump centralized power? Democrats typically want to centralize and increase federal power. What has he nationalized? He’s working to weaken national programs. Once again, you have no leg to stand on. Your hatred for Trump keeps you emotional and foggy.
 
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Capdanjou

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Exactly! I also though republicans were being dumb when they were demanding to see Obama’s birth certificate. Both of these demands are silly, and meant to serve has political attacks.
Does it hurt to have your soul ripped from your body? Repubs were dumb asking for Obama's birth certificate. It was race baiting, pure and simple. Trump's taxes, on the other hand, are juicy and gonna land him in some big trouble. Your myopic view of his taxes are missing the bigger picture. He is under the microscope for his questionable deductions. But what many Americans are now seeing is that he was a massive failure as a businessman, and that's problematic. This is a guy who sold Repubs on his business prowess, but his taxes show that he basically never made money when he was running a business, and its not just real estate deductions and creative accounting. He also has hundreds of millions in loans and its highly questionable whether he'll be able to pay when those debts come due. Can you imagine a sitting president in that sort of compromising situation? Are you connecting the dots yet? It's not a conspiracy, it's plain as day. It raises serious questions, and if you are a serious person, which you obviously aren't, but if you were this would be troubling.
 
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Capdanjou

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Insults. The last stand of a boy who has lost on facts.
You've been owned on facts, Tampa. Wait, that's not exactly right. You have contributed virtually nothing in the form of verifiable fact, which suggests that you're either a simpleton, or you're eating the hate columns served up by Russian trolls.
 

TampaBaySkers

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You've been owned on facts, Tampa. Wait, that's not exactly right. You have contributed virtually nothing in the form of verifiable fact, which suggests that you're either a simpleton, or you're eating the hate columns served up by Russian trolls.
No facts again. I’m not interested in debating you. You are too emotional to debate. I simply wanted to educate you on what dictatorship and fascism mean. Trump is not either of them.

That’s fine if you’re Democrat, and don’t align with Trump’s policies. Just say that. Personal attacks just weaken your stance.

I don’t support Biden since he will raise Corp taxes, capital gains tax, and income tax. Raising taxes will slow economic growth. I also believe the Green New Deal will give too much power to the Feds and centralize power.

Fascist and dictators need people to be weak. Remind me which party wants to take away our amendment rights?
 

tarheelhusker

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I want to see all politicians tax returns. How did they become millionaires & make millions while in office?
Why aren’t all politicians on Obama care?

Makes no difference to me of party affiliation. If tax laws are outdated, do your job and get it right.
I love my country and despise traitors.
 

Capdanjou

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No facts again. I’m not interested in debating you. You are too emotional to debate. I simply wanted to educate you on what dictatorship and fascism mean. Trump is not either of them.

That’s fine if you’re Democrat, and don’t align with Trump’s policies. Just say that. Personal attacks just weaken your stance.

I don’t support Biden since he will raise Corp taxes, capital gains tax, and income tax. Raising taxes will slow economic growth. I also believe the Green New Deal will give too much power to the Feds and centralize power.

Fascist and dictators need people to be weak. Remind me which party wants to take away our amendment rights?
It's not just about Trump's policies, it's his utter lack of skill as a politician. I know the Repubs on the board love his coarse manner because they love to see everyone else squirm, but even as you revel in his truly abhorrent behavior, you miss the domestic and international significant. You can say that you don't care about the rest of the world, but that speaks to ignorance of the U.S. role in the world. You can say all of the discord is sparked by the left, but that speaks to ignorance of the right wing role in sowing discord. You can say I'm emotional, but for the average citizen politics is emotion, after all. You vote on taxes, fine, but part of that elicits an emotional response, and the same is true for people who suffer as a result of Trump's tax policies. You cheer, and the opposition sneers, and vice versa. People don't just vote with their pocket book, they vote because of what they think a tax policy or social issue means to them, their families and their communities. It's all emotion.
 
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