Green Decision.....

Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by cubsker, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. cubsker

    cubsker Head Coach
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    With the depth we claim to be having and the improvements in S&C we claim to have made, we should not be regularly going backwards. Iowa couldn't effectively run the ball against most teams they played. If our guys can't get to the level of, for example, Northwestern, then it will have to be coaching because it cant be talent.
     
  2. ThrowBones92

    ThrowBones92 Redshirt Freshman
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    One thing I noticed after breaking down the tape: Nearly every time they created a bubble on our side of the LOS was on outside zone or stretch plays. They weren't simply lining is up and knocking us backwards. That may sound silly to people to who don't understand how the zone and man blocking concepts work, but much of the bubble was due to a really good first three lateral steps by the OG and OT before getting downhill. Our DL were fighting to maintain gap integrity, but weren't able to do so. Because they were fighting so hard to hold their gaps yet were doing so unsuccessfully, their movement was almost entirely lateral.

    As soon as the OL overtook our lateral-moving DL (if its an outside zone to the left, then that means getting their left/inside shoulder across the left/outside shoulder of our DL), it wasn't hard to create a bubble because our DL continued to try to fight across the OLs face, which was now moving downhill. So we had to give ground to fight to try to get back into our gaps. They were really good at pinning either with the TE or OG on those plays.

    A key to taking on a double-team block is recognizing where the pressure from the double-team is coming from (right or left shoulder) and fighting back against or splitting the down-block. Either of those are hard as hell to do. Recognizing it is a "feel" thing, and it takes a lot of reps to get comfortable recognizing it fast enough to react to it.

    There were some times where, on these plays, whoever got double-teamed off of the snap was driven out. Yes. That was apparent and can be found on tape. But on the edges, it mainly had to do with the fact that we were a step slow off the snap and then tried to maintain original gap assignments.
     
    82 ThrowBones92, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  3. Pennsyhusker

    Pennsyhusker Head Coach
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    Lol. Yep. That qualifies in my book too as subpar. But I agree with the statement above that if that happens we might still be looking at a talent deficit rather than coaching
     
  4. ThrowBones92

    ThrowBones92 Redshirt Freshman
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    It's not purely a strength and conditioning issue.
     
  5. Top_Gun_

    Top_Gun_ Junior
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    this caused me to draw some conclusions on your posting
     
  6. NorthwoodHusker

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    I noticed that too, and many times created a seal for a cutback,with our backers cutting deep, too deep to fill.
    It will be better this fall, teams will have less options to be successful against our D line, which should help the backers anticipate correctly more often.
    It all starts up front.
     
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  7. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    Make whatever excuses you want, we got blown off the ball regularly by Iowa last year.
    I don't know what the heck our OLB's were doing half the time. They would take 2 or 3 steps across the line of scrimmage and then that created an easy lane for the RB to find to cut upfield.
     
  8. NorthwoodHusker

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    They were trying to cut the field and turn the runners to other players.
    Part of the problem was, as I mentioned in my quote, if our line isnt holding its own ,or, getting beat, turning a play into such a scenario doesnt help.
    Now, lets say our D line keeps the tackle side shoulder free, when that backer turns the play in, the D lineman can make the tackle.
    If that shoulders covered, as TB92 talked about, the runner can cut inside and splt the backer,and still get past the D lineman,with his free shoulder away from making the tackle.
     
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  9. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    The D-line is going 3 against 5 most plays. I don't think you can expect them to make a play on the ball most of the time. Heck just not getting beat and getting out of position can be tough. Our ILB's need to see that and be able to fill that gap if the running back does get past the line. Problem is with Dedrick Young, that wasn't going to happen most of the time. Unless you have great play by your dline and ILB's and they never make mistakes, you can't be doing what we were doing with our OLB's by having them go upfield.
     
  10. cubsker

    cubsker Head Coach
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    [​IMG]
     
  11. NorthwoodHusker

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    They have contain, the sooner they make that happen, the less time to develope blocking downfield.
    Theres three D linemen and two ILBs, and the opposing line can get a hat and seal the inside backer given time.
    If the D linemen dont let the opposing O line get into them with technique and speed and strength, they can steer their way into any gap, and thats not happening enough.
    If those D linemen hold their ground, the OLB steps in and turns the play inside, the ILB should be able to make the play.
    It starts up front,if the D linemen are holding their ground,theres no obvious cutback lane,the ILBs arent caught up in the wash,and can move into the gap following the rbs moves.
    Making the play is still having a free hand to pinch even tighter any holes,which gives a smaller target for your ILB.
    The ILBs still have to hit the right angle, just a smaller one, because the OLB turned the play inside early, the D lineman is effectively affecting two gaps, as the ILB follows the rbs motion.
    Being too slow lets the O linemen get into them, get leverage,and they can do two things, one, get their head on the play side of the D lineman, and then seal or push the D lineman wider or back,causing the wash to make a chase instead of an angle for the ILB.
     
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  12. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    Disagree about the OLB's. If they don't go upfield, that gap inside is going to be a lot smaller and you can be just as effective keeping contain.

    I think the D line did a decent job of playing their assignments for most of the year. They actually seemed to regress throughout the year and by the Iowa game they were getting manhandled. I thought earlier in the year they played fundamentally sound, though not very disruptive.

    The ILB's looked completely lost at times, even when the D-line was doing their job. Sometimes it was Barry, but mostly it was Young. A lot of times they should have been filling that gap we're talking about and they were nowhere to be found.

    I think the problems we had stopping the run game were more on the linebackers than it was on the D-line. The linebackers were the ones more often missing their assignments, not the D-line.
     
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  13. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Graduate Assistant
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    Man have we gotten used to Mike Riley coaching or what. Now we just expect players to never progress or get better. The addition of Darrion Daniels, a TRUE NT that hits 320-340 range is going to make a huge difference. Then his younger brother is in much better shape and should more then go a lot longer in games. Having two true NTs that will force double teams will more then help K Davis, C Davis and Ben Stille at DE.

    I don’t know why some of you guys absolutely IGNORE Scott Frost and the staff about lifting numbers being way up and progress being made there. I for one believe him...I remember this staff isn’t Mike Riley and his staff. 2 years with Duvall (one of the best S&C guys in the country) and I fully believe this staff when they say these guys have made big time jumps and your also hearing how much bigger and better our guys look, even compared to last year.

    This will be year two in Chins defense and players should know what they are doing a lot more then last year. But having 2 true NTs in the game when we run a 3-4 will do wonders...BIG TIME wonders. We won’t have players playing out of position on the Dline. Thus allowing K Davis, Ben Stille and C Davis to play their true positions. I don’t expect to see our Dline losing battles like they did last year...for one, we had two players that where some of the best in the BIG 10 at getting pressure on the QB on the interior Dline. This will go up with Darrion and Damion Daniels. Coach T was a beast at Cal, and Cal had the best run stopping defenses in the PAC 12...dude will have our deep, talented Dline ready. Believe that.
     
    93 huskerssalts, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  14. Cornicator

    Cornicator Nebraska Legend
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    By the end of the 2018 season, Nebraska was basically playing a rotation of 4 defensive linemen, and 2 inside linebackers.... every God Damn snap.

    You can continue to over analyze everything, but that lack of depth with no true NT mixed with an up tempo offense, made Nebraska rush defense a sieve.

    I would again implore everyone to hold off judgement on scheme and coaching until you see how things unfold in 19.

    They suddenly have the following:

    DE Kalihl Davis
    DE Ben Stille
    DE Carlos Davis
    DE Deontre Thomas - back from injury
    NT Derrion Daniels
    NT Damion Daniels
    DE/Nose Combo - Jakheem Green - should be added to the mix by late September

    The Inside LB depth is still a year away, but it will be improved with the return of Honas.
     
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  15. ThrowBones92

    ThrowBones92 Redshirt Freshman
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    You're spot on. Obvious you know what you're talking about. It's all about angles and pursuit that gets screwed up when the OL is able to get a jump on their zone steps.
     
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  16. ThrowBones92

    ThrowBones92 Redshirt Freshman
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    You can argue with the guy who clearly knows what he's looking at on tape to argue what you "think" the problems are. What he's saying is correct. It's clear from the way he's discussing it that he has some depth of knowledge of the topic.
     
  17. NorthwoodHusker

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    You nailed it when you said steps.
    That allows for leverage and positioning.
    When they talk about eating up blocks, that means shutting down lanes and angles, as you know, it doesnt mean those D linemen make the tackle, but they make,or,reshape the play for the others to make the tackle.

    If I had time, I could do game clips, show what the guys should be doing,and when they didnt, how it effects the guys behind them.
    Just watching those games,you can see it happening.
    That doesnt mean some of our guys weren't out of position,but watching early games vs later games, you saw much less of it,if at all.
    New schemes,new positions,youth all contribute to that,but for the most part,that will be left for last years team.
     
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  18. ThrowBones92

    ThrowBones92 Redshirt Freshman
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    I'm looking forward to post-game breakdown with you on this site. We could have some really good technical discussions of line play. What's your background?

    On another site (HuskerMax) in today's practice thread post #26, there is a link showing Brian Christopherson's video of the D-line working to get extension on their primary matchup and split the double team/chip block. Most people will gloss over the footwork being trained here. It's a great quick peek at some of the indy sessions.
     
  19. cubsker

    cubsker Head Coach
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    I agree. We have some big bodies on the DL. My point is that if these guys you listed are still getting pushed back and turned as easily as Iowa did last year, then we have some coaching problems. I don't expect that to happen fwiw.
     
  20. 1NebrFan

    1NebrFan Walk On
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    I'm assuming that it will also be the coaching ( in a good way ) if they somehow turn things around this year? : )
     
  21. cubsker

    cubsker Head Coach
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    I expect them to and yes, coaching and S&C will have a lot to do with it.
     
  22. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    I looked at the tape too and what he's saying and what the tape says are two different things. When your D-ends are playing inside the tackles and the tackle's first step is outside for a reach block, there's no way you're going to beat that tackle outside. The best thing you can do is hold your ground and force the tackle and ball carrier along the line of scrimmage as long as possible. Even when the D-line was doing this properly, there was no one on the outside to stop the ball carrier a lot of the time.

    Also on counter plays or cutbacks our weakside ILB's would always overpursue and take the wrong gap or take a gap that was already filled leaving a gaping hole for the running back.

    I played D-line. I have higher expectations out of that group than anybody. They weren't great by any means, but for the most part they played fundamentally sound.
     
  23. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    It's no. 2 but Davis is slated to start at strongside olb so... I'm not sure about your two deep. I question it.
     
  24. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    Yep, they took alot of false steps.
     
  25. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    I think we will have a good to very good defense this year. We have Deontai at safety. He's going to be very good. We have Mo at MLB he is a damn fine football player. Our defensive line may be the strength of the team. I saw a group photo of those guys. They are rocked up. No skinny arms or flabby bellies.

    I say olb is bad because they can't stay healthy, and Davis is still learning how to play football. None of them have much experience at olb. They are all physically talented.

    I thought the dline play was pretty good last year.
     
  26. huskerfan1414

    huskerfan1414 Graduate Assistant
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    Wait are you saying the DEs job in the 3-4 is outside contain?
     
  27. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I read in there that the OLB is the contain. I believe he is right for the most part, I think there were issues with run fits, more that gap responsibilities though. There were tons of times the LBs were in the correct gap, but the wrong side of the gap. Or when they blitzed, they blitzed too wide and were kicked out
     
  28. huskerfan1414

    huskerfan1414 Graduate Assistant
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    I couldn't follow who he was talking about. And yes, in a 3-4 the olb is first contain. But as you said they cant get too wide. ILB attack inside hip inside out, OLB squeeze but keep outside shoulder.

    I saw the DLine getting their poo pushed in last season, although better than the year before, and Young not making reads correctly or way too slow. He alone shouldn't be a scapegoat though.
    But there were a lot of mistakes being made all over so it serves no use trying to narrow it down.
    I expect an improvement this year, we wont “arrive” to championship level yet but we should be solid.
     
  29. NorthwoodHusker

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    I saw too many safeties backing out into nowhere too,caught looking.
     
  30. dinglefritz

    dinglefritz College Football Hall of Fame
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    Freedom was a liability in the run game especially. When he was in the game, teams routinely ran at him. I don't think we've got a weak leak on the D line for people to abuse this year.
     
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  31. dinglefritz

    dinglefritz College Football Hall of Fame
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    THIS is the kind of stuff I like to read on this board. Good discussion and nobody's called anybody an idiot yet.
     
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  32. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    You always have a defender outside shoulder of the widest offensive player. That way you protect your flank.
     
  33. huskerfan1414

    huskerfan1414 Graduate Assistant
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    ...always? You sure?

    And hes right about how you can be too wide.
     
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  34. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    Very bad idea. We need some stability. People should be quiet. If you make me, I have a long winded analogy. I will have no paragraphs. It will be a stream of thought.
     
  35. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    Yeah Stille and Khalil got abused at times too. Our LB's also shouldn't get pushed over by TE's and slot receivers as much as they were. I hope our team strength is vastly improved this year.
     
  36. oldjar07

    oldjar07 Blackshirt
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    Too wide and too far upfield. The OLB's took themselves out of a lot of plays last year.
     
  37. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    Ooh goodie. Each level of the defense has their own calls. And they have their assignments. The worse thing you can do as a defense would be weak through the middle. If you cannot control the middle to some degree, the war is lost.

    You can also not be out flanked dependent upon assignments. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure the flank is assigned to some portion of the defense while assigning inside gap to the interior or strong safety's. JMO. The defense has more than one call dependent on level. It's a like chess. Only it is more complicated. IMO.
     
  38. huskerfan1414

    huskerfan1414 Graduate Assistant
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    I was addressing the assertion that you always have a defender outside shoulder of the widest offensive player.
    That isnt always true. But its a small thing and a lame technicality.
     
  39. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    Mo took himself out of running plays. He played beneath his ability, because we didn't play assignment football. He was trying to make a play and cover deficiencies. JMO.

    The only player that Iowa has on defense that is better than our players is Epenesa. They were the seventh rated scoring defense, I believe. They are disciplined. That's it. They know their assignments.JMO. I love you Tuco.
     
  40. red scowl

    red scowl Junior
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    That's petty. You were looking for a weakness too exploit. I got my eye on you. You silly fella.:)
     

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