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For those of you who think this is like the flu

The very first stat one needs to look at is the number of recoveries not the number of deaths. As the number of positive tests increases, the mortality rate decreases. 1 person tests positive and dies, mortality rate 100%, zero people survived the virus. 200 people test positive 10 dead, mortality rate is 5%, but 190 people have survived the virus. 5000 people test positive 100 dead, mortality rate is 2% but 4900 people have survived the virus.

Isn't it weird how we don't hear about the mortality rate anymore on the news. All we hear about is then number of dead. Why is that? Is a 1.4% mortality rate not quite the same as the 10% mortality rate from February?

Yes having 994 people die, as of the time of this post, sucks. But so far there are 68,440 confirmed cases. The mortality rate is about 1.4% That doesn't include the number of people that had the virus, didn't even know it and no longer have the virus. How many people get the flu, don't go to the doctor, simply stay home, suck down fluids, take theraflu or whatever, puke, sweat, feel like shit, then get better, go back to work. They aren't counted in the number of people that had the flu. So when we calculate the mortality rate of the flu, those people aren't included. We only count the the cases where the patient tested positive for the flu and compare it to the number of people who died from the flu.

How many cases are there, where a patient who is in the hospital for kidney failure, and ends up getting the flu or pneumonia and dies. Does the hospital code that as a flu death? Pneumonia death or kidney failure death?

With this virus, so many of the deaths are people that were knocking on death's door anyway. Yes, it sucks that they last few days of their lives were cut short, but it isn't like the majority of the deaths are healthy 35 year olds that are stricken with this thing.

I am pretty sure I had it. I felt like crap for a few days, stayed home, self quarantined for 2 weeks and got better. Now I feel fine.

I think the virus is dangerous. But I tend to agree, at least in my part of the world in Houston area, that we are going to look back at this and think what the hell were we thinking, we killed an economy for something that is going to kill less than the flu, heart disease, cancer, drunk driving accidents, and walking in front of a bus.

As I stated earlier, the official statistics show that as of today at 4pm, roughly 2 months after the first case of coronovirus in the US was confirmed, there have been 68,440 confirmed cases and 994 deaths. That is going to increase over the next 10 days.....However

The H1N1 virus in 2009, IN THE US, 60.8 million people were diagnosed with the disease, 274,304 people were hospitalized and 12,469 people died.

In order to reach 12,469 deaths in 2020, the Coronovirus is going to have to kill 12 times the number of US people it has killed so far, and roughly 60,732,000 more people are going to have to be diagnosed with it to reach 2009 H1N1 levels.

Freak out, don't freak out, whatever, at least examine facts and not just spread fear based on what some doctor in NY or Seattle says when you don't live in NY or Seattle.
Would you then be in favor of intentionally infecting through injection every person not at risk for complications then in 2-3 weeks sending them back to work while the rest of the population quarantines. Admittedly some of these will die and have serious issues but isnt that better than subjecting at risk people to a high likely hood of death
 
The very first stat one needs to look at is the number of recoveries not the number of deaths. As the number of positive tests increases, the mortality rate decreases. 1 person tests positive and dies, mortality rate 100%, zero people survived the virus. 200 people test positive 10 dead, mortality rate is 5%, but 190 people have survived the virus. 5000 people test positive 100 dead, mortality rate is 2% but 4900 people have survived the virus.

Isn't it weird how we don't hear about the mortality rate anymore on the news. All we hear about is then number of dead. Why is that? Is a 1.4% mortality rate not quite the same as the 10% mortality rate from February?

Yes having 994 people die, as of the time of this post, sucks. But so far there are 68,440 confirmed cases. The mortality rate is about 1.4% That doesn't include the number of people that had the virus, didn't even know it and no longer have the virus. How many people get the flu, don't go to the doctor, simply stay home, suck down fluids, take theraflu or whatever, puke, sweat, feel like shit, then get better, go back to work. They aren't counted in the number of people that had the flu. So when we calculate the mortality rate of the flu, those people aren't included. We only count the the cases where the patient tested positive for the flu and compare it to the number of people who died from the flu.

How many cases are there, where a patient who is in the hospital for kidney failure, and ends up getting the flu or pneumonia and dies. Does the hospital code that as a flu death? Pneumonia death or kidney failure death?

With this virus, so many of the deaths are people that were knocking on death's door anyway. Yes, it sucks that they last few days of their lives were cut short, but it isn't like the majority of the deaths are healthy 35 year olds that are stricken with this thing.

I am pretty sure I had it. I felt like crap for a few days, stayed home, self quarantined for 2 weeks and got better. Now I feel fine.

I think the virus is dangerous. But I tend to agree, at least in my part of the world in Houston area, that we are going to look back at this and think what the hell were we thinking, we killed an economy for something that is going to kill less than the flu, heart disease, cancer, drunk driving accidents, and walking in front of a bus.

As I stated earlier, the official statistics show that as of today at 4pm, roughly 2 months after the first case of coronovirus in the US was confirmed, there have been 68,440 confirmed cases and 994 deaths. That is going to increase over the next 10 days.....However

The H1N1 virus in 2009, IN THE US, 60.8 million people were diagnosed with the disease, 274,304 people were hospitalized and 12,469 people died.

In order to reach 12,469 deaths in 2020, the Coronovirus is going to have to kill 12 times the number of US people it has killed so far, and roughly 60,732,000 more people are going to have to be diagnosed with it to reach 2009 H1N1 levels.

Freak out, don't freak out, whatever, at least examine facts and not just spread fear based on what some doctor in NY or Seattle says when you don't live in NY or Seattle.
I don’t think this is about freak out vs not freaking out. If we didn’t take measures to flatten the curve, our survival rate would be lower because hospitals can’t help everyone.

We are taking necessary measures to reduce the spike and that will have a positive impact on recovery.

I’m not a fan of people who diminish this virus as like the flu because the flu has never sent as many people to the hospital with challenges to breathe that without a ventilator might die.
What do you expect them to do? The man they idolize says he thinks this is under control and wants to have packed churches by Easter. They’ve put their full faith in one man and it’s ride or die by his words.

You hate trump I get it - or are you convinced your post is a fact and cannot be disputed. The only other way your post an be interpreted is that you hate Trump supporters. Its not a difference of opinion you state your opinion as fact and dismiss anyone who disagrees. I think its certainly reasonable to debate whether to open the economy up but that is not what you are doing
Yes. I disagree with you. You think Trump is doing a great job despite evidence that suggests he has handled this crisis worse than any other country in the world.
 
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Yes. I disagree with you. You think Trump is doing a great job despite evidence that suggests he has handled this crisis worse than any other country in the world.

Lots of world leaders, and the WHO, and doctors disagree with you....and I wonder if you you compared the graph of people who hated him before the China virus hit, and laid it right over the same people who are saying he's doing poorly now...if it wouldn't be a perfect match?
 
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I don’t think this is about freak out vs not freaking out. If we didn’t take measures to flatten the curve, our survival rate would be lower because hospitals can’t help everyone.

We are taking necessary measures to reduce the spike and that will have a positive impact on recovery.

I’m not a fan of people who diminish this virus as like the flu because the flu has never sent as many people to the hospital with challenges to breathe that without a ventilator might die.

Yes. I disagree with you. You think Trump is doing a great job despite evidence that suggests he has handled this crisis worse than any other country in the world.
yet in the same sentence you state

We are taking necessary measures to reduce the spike and that will have a positive impact on recovery.

The US has the same level as much of the world in infection rate and much lower than Europe - If you are trying to say China did a better job, good gosh man add 10 to 20x their number to reach a real one
 
The very first stat one needs to look at is the number of recoveries not the number of deaths. As the number of positive tests increases, the mortality rate decreases. 1 person tests positive and dies, mortality rate 100%, zero people survived the virus. 200 people test positive 10 dead, mortality rate is 5%, but 190 people have survived the virus. 5000 people test positive 100 dead, mortality rate is 2% but 4900 people have survived the virus.

Isn't it weird how we don't hear about the mortality rate anymore on the news. All we hear about is then number of dead. Why is that? Is a 1.4% mortality rate not quite the same as the 10% mortality rate from February?

Yes having 994 people die, as of the time of this post, sucks. But so far there are 68,440 confirmed cases. The mortality rate is about 1.4% That doesn't include the number of people that had the virus, didn't even know it and no longer have the virus. How many people get the flu, don't go to the doctor, simply stay home, suck down fluids, take theraflu or whatever, puke, sweat, feel like shit, then get better, go back to work. They aren't counted in the number of people that had the flu. So when we calculate the mortality rate of the flu, those people aren't included. We only count the the cases where the patient tested positive for the flu and compare it to the number of people who died from the flu.

How many cases are there, where a patient who is in the hospital for kidney failure, and ends up getting the flu or pneumonia and dies. Does the hospital code that as a flu death? Pneumonia death or kidney failure death?

With this virus, so many of the deaths are people that were knocking on death's door anyway. Yes, it sucks that they last few days of their lives were cut short, but it isn't like the majority of the deaths are healthy 35 year olds that are stricken with this thing.

I am pretty sure I had it. I felt like crap for a few days, stayed home, self quarantined for 2 weeks and got better. Now I feel fine.

I think the virus is dangerous. But I tend to agree, at least in my part of the world in Houston area, that we are going to look back at this and think what the hell were we thinking, we killed an economy for something that is going to kill less than the flu, heart disease, cancer, drunk driving accidents, and walking in front of a bus.

As I stated earlier, the official statistics show that as of today at 4pm, roughly 2 months after the first case of coronovirus in the US was confirmed, there have been 68,440 confirmed cases and 994 deaths. That is going to increase over the next 10 days.....However

The H1N1 virus in 2009, IN THE US, 60.8 million people were diagnosed with the disease, 274,304 people were hospitalized and 12,469 people died.

In order to reach 12,469 deaths in 2020, the Coronovirus is going to have to kill 12 times the number of US people it has killed so far, and roughly 60,732,000 more people are going to have to be diagnosed with it to reach 2009 H1N1 levels.

Freak out, don't freak out, whatever, at least examine facts and not just spread fear based on what some doctor in NY or Seattle says when you don't live in NY or Seattle.

Why post this kind of common sense when you can post something like:

togGHYs.gif
 
Lots of world leaders, and the WHO, and doctors disagree with you....and I wonder if you you compared the graph of people who hated him before the China virus hit, and laid it right over the same people who are saying he's doing poorly now...if it wouldn't be a perfect match?
What metrics do you use to determine performance? I can’t figure out why after a two month head start and being the richest country in the world how we would have more cases, one of if not the highest rate of infection in the world. I can’t figure out why we are accepting of hearing lies told to us daily in a crisis when we all need facts and truth. Why we are accepting of a President who openly talks about a drug that has no evidence of curing this disease because of how he feels. A President who picks Easter and wants churches packed without any scientific model for selecting that date. Do you understand why I might be suspicious?
 
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yet in the same sentence you state

We are taking necessary measures to reduce the spike and that will have a positive impact on recovery.

The US has the same level as much of the world in infection rate and much lower than Europe - If you are trying to say China did a better job, good gosh man add 10 to 20x their number to reach a real one
Even if we agree that China is not the most open and honest in dealing with facts, one cannot deny how breathtakingly low the number of infections are in Beijing - a city of 30 million people. They shut the city down. Picked dates when one member of a house could travel for food. They took temperatures entering buildings. They had widespread testing and if you tested positive, the government paid for care and hospitalized you until you recovered. No matter if we dislike China, one can’t argue that they didn’t address this virus with more rigor and success than we have.
 
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What metrics do you use to determine performance? I can’t figure out why after a two month head start and being the richest country in the world how we would have more cases, one of if not the highest rate of infection in the world. I can’t figure out why we are accepting of hearing lies told to us daily in a crisis when we all need facts and truth. Why we are accepting of a President who openly talks about a drug that has no evidence of curing this disease because of how he feels. A President who picks Easter and wants churches packed without any scientific model for selecting that date. Do you understand why I might be suspicious?

I understand certain people hate everything he does, and everything he doesn't do, and have been whining so much for 3+ years that it all just sounds the same now...and I don't mind a leader who's hoping for the best and Easter is kind of a big day and a little ways away yet, and I hope to be able to attend our service to. I'd prefer optimism over doom and gloom, and if he did the doom and gloom you'd whine about that to.
 
What metrics do you use to determine performance? I can’t figure out why after a two month head start and being the richest country in the world how we would have more cases, one of if not the highest rate of infection in the world. I can’t figure out why we are accepting of hearing lies told to us daily in a crisis when we all need facts and truth. Why we are accepting of a President who openly talks about a drug that has no evidence of curing this disease because of how he feels. A President who picks Easter and wants churches packed without any scientific model for selecting that date. Do you understand why I might be suspicious?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Look at the numbers
  • China is not reporting numbers correctly it is very established what the infection rate is and china is reporting an unrealistic one multiply their number by 20 and you are closer to the actual number. Additionally would you be happy to see police dragging infected people out of their homes that in part is how they approached this
  • Europe on average has a much higher infection rate and if you add up all the European countries then you are starting to look at the same amount of population as the US. The European countries have 300,000 infected and a higher death rate
  • India is outlier I think at this point - they either are insulated in some way or its just now starting there - but they have a poor health care system, large elderly population and one billion people - if it takes off there at the same pace as the rest of the world look out
 
I understand certain people hate everything he does, and everything he doesn't do, and have been whining so much for 3+ years that it all just sounds the same now...and I don't mind a leader who's hoping for the best and Easter is kind of a big day and a little ways away yet, and I hope to be able to attend our service to. I'd prefer optimism over doom and gloom, and if he did the doom and gloom you'd whine about that to.
I prefer facts. Even if they are discouraging. Let’s set fair expectations for people to adjust to instead of false ones. I have a lot of hope and optimism. But I need facts and truth from a leader, especially during a crisis.
 
So as a hypothetical which is worse, having 1 person die vs having 1000 people lose their jobs & homes. Or having one person die vs having 100 small businesses close and laying off all their employees.

Obesity kills millions per year but noone gives a crap about that. These are the same people that die from most illnesses but now we're supposed to care because it's a new illness. As Americans we should have the choice if we want to work and possibly get sick or stay at home and lose our job. The media is doing a great job scaring us for a virus that statistically is killing less than the flu. And if anyone thinks the media isn't using this against Trump in an election year you're crazy.

Corona clinics in China are closing now because there aren't as many cases anymore.
The whole The Media is making this up , because they hate the President conspiracy theory cracks me up. Yes, they quarantined all of Italy because the media hates Trump, parts of nations all over the world and on stay at home orders and economies are in ruins because “the media” is out to get Trump. That is such a ridiculous thought process.

And so is the idea that if everyone just goes about life like this isn't happening the economy will be fine and a just few elderly people you don’t know will get sick and die. How will the economy look when a huge chunk of the work force is home sick? When hospitals are over run and can’t meet basic needs? We have to deal with this the right way now, so the economy can bounce back and we aren’t dealing with a much bigger issue soon.
 
If anyone thinks this is the garden variety flu, they are a moron and a danger to society.
 
I prefer facts. Even if they are discouraging. Let’s set fair expectations for people to adjust to instead of false ones. I have a lot of hope and optimism. But I need facts and truth from a leader, especially during a crisis.
Right, it’s the difference between realism and fantasy. I don’t get what is difficult to understand. We need a leader that can understand basic science and statistics and isn’t afraid to tell the truth because he thinks it’ll hurt his re-election campaign. When the National Basketball Association has shown more leadership and intelligence than the president in the face of a pandemic we may not be in a great spot.
 
I prefer facts. Even if they are discouraging. Let’s set fair expectations for people to adjust to instead of false ones. I have a lot of hope and optimism. But I need facts and truth from a leader, especially during a crisis.

I specifically remember him trying to take it more serious and was called a racist, and I remember a certain 3 letter network that said he was overacting and it would backfire...which goes back to my post a few minutes ago...certain people hate everything he does, and everything he doesn't do...and there will never be any pleasing them and they'll just find something to complain about no matter what, just like they've been doping for 3+ years.
 
The infection rate/ million of population would be the most fair way to measure how a country responded to the virus here is a list I only included major countries:
  • Iceland 2608
  • Switzerland 1422
  • Spain 1370
  • Italy 1333
  • Austria 821
  • Norway 681
  • Belgium 628
  • Germany 565
  • Netherlands 502
  • France 447
  • Portugal 419
  • Ireland 368
  • Israel 351
  • Denmark 347
  • USA 260
  • UK 215
  • S.Korea 182
  • Canada 107
Then you have the liars:
  • China 57
  • Russia 7
Then the countries who are either lucky, done an incredible job or in my opinion their time in the barrel is coming
  • Japan 11 - 126 million people who live in close tight packed areas
  • India .6% - one billion people who live mostly on large squalor filled cities
  • Mexico 5 - 126 million people, majority of who live in major cities that are not known for how clean they are - plus health system is a mess
Draw your own conclusions on how well our country has done so far - death rates are also very similar in rankings. These are facts not some preconceived notion built on an emotional response to one individual
 
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I specifically remember him trying to take it more serious and was called a racist, and I remember a certain 3 letter network that said he was overacting and it would backfire...which goes back to my post a few minutes ago...certain people hate everything he does, and everything he doesn't do...and there will never be any pleasing them and they'll just find something to complain about no matter what, just like they've been doping for 3+ years.

I'm hoping to be able to vote for someone other than Trump in November.

Here is Joe Biden, on the day Trump announced the travel restrictions to China, in a direct response to being asked about those imposed restrictions:

“This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, to uh, and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science"

So our slow response, under him, would have been even slower. Hundreds and hundreds more flights would have come in. Hard pass. Hopefully they'll nominate someone who is not crazy.
 
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I'm hoping to be able to vote for someone other than Trump in November.

Here is Joe Biden, on the day Trump announced the travel restrictions to China, in a direct response to being asked about those imposed restrictions:

“This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, to uh, and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science"

So our slow response, under him, would have been even slower. Hundreds and hundreds more flights would have come in. Hard pass. Hopefully they'll nominate someone who is not crazy.
I didn’t know, listening to and investing in science would be a better approach than ignoring it and calling it a hoax.
 
I'm hoping to be able to vote for someone other than Trump in November.

Here is Joe Biden, on the day Trump announced the travel restrictions to China, in a direct response to being asked about those imposed restrictions:

“This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, to uh, and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science"

So our slow response, under him, would have been even slower. Hundreds and hundreds more flights would have come in. Hard pass. Hopefully they'll nominate someone who is not crazy.

Hard to imagine watching his dementia virus PSA that we'd be in better hands with him...but he has a great chance come November, where-as he had no chance before, thanks to China.
 
I didn’t know, listening to and investing in science would be a better approach than ignoring it and calling it a hoax.

He never said it was a hoax, read that speech or watch on youtube, that is not what he said.... and ironically enough you're spewing a hoax by claiming it....hmmm., and if ya want proof, look at his actions, the first world leader to try and take such drastic measures...do those actions line up with somebody who thinks it was a hoax? No.
 
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Here is a good look at the proactive approach Taiwan took to deal with covid-19. Despite being right next to China, they have only had 200 cases (mostly citizens coming from China). They got hit hard by SARS and learned some lessons. They have been able to keep open schools, restaurants and mass transit and everyone goes to work. They test and screen people at every turn, take temps before people can enter public locations, etc. Very impressive.

https://www.ucanews.com/news/have-you-seen-how-taiwan-managed-covid-19/87535
 
Hard to imagine watching his dementia virus PSA that we'd be in better hands with him...but he has a great chance come November, where-as he had no chance before, thanks to China.
The Democratic part is a mess and Biden is an uninspiring candidate, to say the least. However, China is not Trump’s problem, he is.
 
Friend of mine and I were talking about this and she sent me the following that's hard to think about...

What’s really sad with this covid shutdown is that for a lot of kids and toddlers, school and daycare was an escape from an abusive home life.

Cooks Children’s hospital here in Fort Worth has already seen seven cases of child abuse brought in, two kids have died from the abuse, and all of them were under the age of 5. They said that the stress that these parents were feeling was most likely at play.

In our school district, they keep kitchen lines open all year so that children can still get lunch, and breakfast for the following day, but many low income families do not have the financial means to feed their kids three meals a day, every day of the week.

I imagine a lot of kids are being left home alone if their parents have to work, and it’s the dark cloud over this shut down that no one is really talking about. Financial relief can’t come soon enough for families living paycheck to paycheck, or for parents who were let go from their jobs.

Sorry to bring up such a dark topic, but like I said, no one wants to talk about it. There’s so much riding on this and a lot of it doesn’t make sense when the local governments are forcing families into shutdown.

It puts a lot of things into perspective and makes me want to open my doors and help in any way I can. I’d take in a hundred kids and feed them if I could. If this keeps up, I may be running an underground day care.

That being said, if you know people that might be struggling with meals or financial help or even could use a babysitter, send that text or make that phone call to see if you can help in any way
 
The Democratic part is a mess and Biden is an uninspiring candidate, to say the least. However, China is not Trump’s problem, he is.

November wasn't in question until China blessed us with the gift of said virus...yes Trump is his own worst enemy sometimes and he has diarrhea of the mouth sometimes, but he was going to win by a landslide pre-virus.
 
I didn’t know, listening to and investing in science would be a better approach than ignoring it and calling it a hoax.

Yep. Just as bad to listen to science then decide that science might offend someone somewhere, and due to that attitude, sweep "science" under the rug.

Trump is extraordinarily flawed. Biden is extraordinarily flawed. Yay, we get a South Park election!
 
Economic down turns also cause many deaths... I'm part of the side that says this is serious and we need to do all we can to be smart and mitigate our exposure. That said, the death toll is going to be much higher as a result but not counted because how could you ever quantify the outlying effects? Suicide, Murder, Famine, etc are all by products of this event we find ourselves in... The hardships so many folks will encounter are so very ugly.... It's very disappointing to see so many folks treat it carelessly
 
Here is a good look at the proactive approach Taiwan took to deal with covid-19. Despite being right next to China, they have only had 200 cases (mostly citizens coming from China). They got hit hard by SARS and learned some lessons. They have been able to keep open schools, restaurants and mass transit and everyone goes to work. They test and screen people at every turn, take temps before people can enter public locations, etc. Very impressive.

https://www.ucanews.com/news/have-you-seen-how-taiwan-managed-covid-19/87535

That is impressive. Thanks for the article. I hope gov'ts take note.
 
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I talked to my son stationed at an Army base in South Korea. Someone tested positive in the building, and they are in lockdown in their barracks and can’t leave their room. I asked if he had been tested. Nope. The Army is following the lead of their Command in Chief. Bury your head in the sand and hope it goes away.
 
Yep. Just as bad to listen to science then decide that science might offend someone somewhere, and due to that attitude, sweep "science" under the rug.

Trump is extraordinarily flawed. Biden is extraordinarily flawed. Yay, we get a South Park election!
Yep......Again
 
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November wasn't in question until China blessed us with the gift of said virus...yes Trump is his own worst enemy sometimes and he has diarrhea of the mouth sometimes, but he was going to win by a landslide pre-virus.
Not sure how you can say that. Trump’s approval rating was very low before the outbreak (I believe it is higher now than it has been in a while). And almost every poll out there had him trailing both the democratic front runners. He may well have been re-elected, but is was far from a given and I don’t see anything indicating it would have been a landslide. Lucky for him (and bad for the country) he will be running against a very flawed candidate, yet again.

Now think of the landslide he could have won in, if he had been proactive and had us prepared for this.
 
Not sure how you can say that. Trump’s approval rating was very low before the outbreak (I believe it is higher now than it has been in a while). And almost every poll out there had him trailing both the democratic front runners. He may well have been re-elected, but is was far from a given and I don’t see anything indicating it would have been a landslide. Lucky for him (and bad for the country) he will be running against a very flawed candidate, yet again.

Now think of the landslide he could have won in, if he had been proactive and had us prepared for this.

Economy and market = landslide. Just my opinion, now those two things aren't there which translates into a punchers chance for somebody else.
 
Not sure how you can say that. Trump’s approval rating was very low before the outbreak (I believe it is higher now than it has been in a while). And almost every poll out there had him trailing both the democratic front runners. He may well have been re-elected, but is was far from a given and I don’t see anything indicating it would have been a landslide. Lucky for him (and bad for the country) he will be running against a very flawed candidate, yet again.

Now think of the landslide he could have won in, if he had been proactive and had us prepared for this.
Agree. Without getting into an argument over who should win, pre-virus the November election was going to come down to the five northern states that flipped to red in 2016. A couple of other states might have also been in play, but I doubt it.

President Trump might have held all of those states, and maybe he still will. But there was not going to be anything even resembling a landslide.

election-results.jpg
 
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Not sure how you can say that. Trump’s approval rating was very low before the outbreak (I believe it is higher now than it has been in a while). And almost every poll out there had him trailing both the democratic front runners. He may well have been re-elected, but is was far from a given and I don’t see anything indicating it would have been a landslide. Lucky for him (and bad for the country) he will be running against a very flawed candidate, yet again.

Now think of the landslide he could have won in, if he had been proactive and had us prepared for this.
He’s never dropped below even odds in Vegas, and for the vast majority he’s been about a 2/1 favorite to repeat.
 
November wasn't in question until China blessed us with the gift of said virus...yes Trump is his own worst enemy sometimes and he has diarrhea of the mouth sometimes, but he was going to win by a landslide pre-virus.
I have no problem with people feeling one way or the other but polls suggested that both Bernie and Biden had decent advantages over Trump before the virus. And I don’t need a lecture about “we know how reliable polls are”. They still suggest anything but a landslide.
 
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Not 2/1 and even money suggests a 50/50 outcome.
He’s been as high as a -240 favorite within the past 6 months, and, yes, never worse than even odds.

The polls suggesting he’s behind aren’t reflected in places where money changes hands.
 
I have no problem with people feeling one way or the other but polls suggested that both Bernie and Biden had decent advantages over Trump before the virus. And I don’t need a lecture about “we know how reliable polls are”. They still suggest anything but a landslide.

Bernie having the same advantage of beating Trump as Biden is miss calculation..
 
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And all of you remember that Hillary was a lock in 2016. Don't believe any polls you see anymore. Too many leading questions and poll takers "interpreting" data to fit their desired outcome. Unless something really bad happens, Trump wins easily. Too many unions that used to vote Dem do not want to give up their cadillac health plans. Those are in the swing states in the upper midwest. Dems want single payer, which would be awful in this country. Have any of you been to Europe and talked to the citizens there? We've been fortunate and traveled there 6 times in the past 7 years. Their "free" health requires 19% sales tax and very high income tax rates. Plus waiting periods that would make us here furious (and kill many of us- see Italy).

Unless something that President Trump does actually does hurt people (not based on what CNN or MSNBC says), that's the only chance he has too lose. Mark it down.
 
Unless something that President Trump does actually does hurt people (not based on what CNN or MSNBC says), that's the only chance he has too lose. Mark it down.
Never said he won't win, just not in a landslide. He won't lose a lopsided election either - there are too many electoral votes already locked in on both sides for that.
 
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So lets see my choices are

* 78 year old communist that had a heart attack campaigning and is supported by anarchists
* 77 year creepy old guy who fondles young girls and cant finish sentences due to dementia
* 73 year old business/TV personality who generally has good results but says weird stuff, has many personality flaws and is attacked non-stop by the MSM

My we have some great choices
 
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