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For those of you who think this is like the flu

I really do not want to insult you or anything but all I hear Me,Me, Me - go out get drunk and watch a game then infect your grandmother. When she is in the hospital dying ask her then if she is ok with that and then ask yourself if you can live with that
The worst thing isn't the grandma dying...it is this poor smuck getting sick, going into the ICU and they have to unhook an 80 year old because this overweight 46 year old has to be put on a ventilator...they put the 80 year old to the side with morphine and just watch them die and the 46 year old will have a good story about how he and Jesus survived this thing.
 
It can to some degree but the data they've collected thus far says that is not at all a significant source of new infections. As with most pathogens, there is a "minimum infective dose" needed to cause disease or incite an immune response. Generally speaking, you're not going to pick up the virus unless you're in an enclosed space or in close contact with someone who is shedding the virus.

Social distancing greatly reduces your chance of picking up or shedding the virus.
I read somewhere that 88% of cases were from direct contact with someone who had it,and being in close proximity . Most of those were from family to family contamination. IE Son giving it to Dad. Dad giving into do daughter. The odds of you going in the grocery store and picking it up because you touch the same bag of cereal as an infected person is pretty low.
 
That is what I don't understand from the people that are just shaking off this virus as nothing more than a cold or flu. Everyone has a social responsibility to be cautious with this.

I am no medical expert but I do listen to the experts on this that everyone has a social responsibility to this. It just amazes me the people on a message board that think they know better. They will be the same people that makes this pandemic worse than it needs to be.
What do you expect them to do? The man they idolize says he thinks this is under control and wants to have packed churches by Easter. They’ve put their full faith in one man and it’s ride or die by his words.
 
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I read somewhere that 88% of cases were from direct contact with someone who had it,and being in close proximity . Most of those were from family to family contamination. IE Son giving it to Dad. Dad giving into do daughter. The odds of you going in the grocery store and picking it up because you touch the same bag of cereal as an infected person is pretty low.
79% seem to be from asymptomatic cases though...at least from China. So people were infected by people who didn't show signs of infection. Of course this easily could happen in the household and you are generally affectionate and close until somebody gets sick then you sleep apart or whatever. The real enigma of this virus is its ability to shed in massive amounts while not causing disease...it is likely that a massive amount is needed to cause replication and disease and as a consequence many people shed but don't get sick and other pick up a massive amount of the virus and depending on situation get overwhelmed. We have plenty of studies that jet lag, weird work schedules, lack of sleep can cause healthy people to be overwhelmed by viruses so maybe there is a pattern of young people who are traveling extensively, not getting rest, or doctors who are overworked being overwhelmed. I wish we would study how much people need to sleep, and how active they should be while infected or pre-infected.
 
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That is what I don't understand from the people that are just shaking off this virus as nothing more than a cold or flu. Everyone has a social responsibility to be cautious with this.

I am no medical expert but I do listen to the experts on this that everyone has a social responsibility to this. It just amazes me the people on a message board that think they know better. They will be the same people that makes this pandemic worse than it needs to be.
I found this baffling too. Then I used my wife's car yesterday to run an errand, and got a good reminder of why this isn't sinking in.

She never uses the radio, so when I turned it on the dial was still set to an AM talk station where I listened to a basketball game a couple of weeks ago. And sure enough, notorious shithead failure Michael "Heckuva Job, Brownie" Brown was on the air spewing dipshittery to the masses - crap that he could not possibly believe, but which keeps him on the air getting paid. Amazing to hear one total dumbass after another call in to whine about the big, bad media conspiracy, but I'm sure Brownie laughed all the way to the bank. His quest to remain relevant lives on for one more day.
 
How many times does someone sneeze on soneone yet we have case after case. I doubt every case 8s from being sneezed on.

If tbats all it was we would not shut down the country.

Social distancing does not work.
Also, seems every job under the sun, from GameStop to every bar, is sending employees papers saying they are essential personnel. If this country wants to truly fight anything, they need to realize at least 75% of the workforce is far from essential if you’re trying to distance.
 
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Anyone paying attention to the "doubling" rate. The number of days it takes for total case to double. We are sitting at just under 3 days. Italy is currently at about every 6 days. China was also at around 5 or 6 days at this point in their process. Germany is at about 4 already. Spain is also hitting every 4 days. Which makes me assuming we are going to be in much worse shape than all of them.
 
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What do you expect them to do? The man they idolize says he thinks this is under control and wants to have packed churches by Easter. They’ve put their full faith in one man and it’s ride or die by his words.

Trump needs to shut up and let Dr Fauci tell us when it’s safe time to mingle amongst ourselves..
 
So as a hypothetical which is worse, having 1 person die vs having 1000 people lose their jobs & homes. Or having one person die vs having 100 small businesses close and laying off all their employees.

Obesity kills millions per year but noone gives a crap about that. These are the same people that die from most illnesses but now we're supposed to care because it's a new illness. As Americans we should have the choice if we want to work and possibly get sick or stay at home and lose our job. The media is doing a great job scaring us for a virus that statistically is killing less than the flu. And if anyone thinks the media isn't using this against Trump in an election year you're crazy.

Corona clinics in China are closing now because there aren't as many cases anymore.
 
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Stay safe and careful. I still have neighbors hanging out drinking beers together. What was astounding is when the director of nursing said some patients went from no symptoms to death in 3 hours. This is not your normal virus

My 79 year- old- next door neighbor who in normal times cannot go two minutes without sneezing, coughing, blowing stuff out his nose, rubbing his eyes, picking his nose and touching everything in sight was hell-bent on playing golf yesterday. He and every other old man wanted to play one more time before the state mandated shutdown went into effect. He said the course was packed. I am thinking this demographic group of old, slow and not the best at maintaining good hygiene habits are the last group of people who should be congregating with one another.

(This neighbor does not grasp the concept of social distancing so don't write me how you could play golf and be safe. I could, but there is no way he can.) I have another neighbor who is 80 coming home next week from spending the winter at his place in Mexico. He has several health issues including diabetes. He might be one of the most book-smart and well travelled persons I know, but he literally stinks from lack of taking care of himself. I am not sure he knows where his shower is. I don't see how it will be possible for him not to get Covid 19)

Update. I meant to write demographic and not democratic when writing about the old, slow group of men. Our 80 year old neighbor did come home from his place in Ajijic, Mexico and his daughter from the Seattle area has already come over and picked him up and taken him to her place. He says he is going back to Mexico in June. I will have to see it to believe it
 
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So as a hypothetical which is worse, having 1 person die vs having 1000 people lose their jobs & homes. Or having one person die vs having 100 small businesses close and laying off all their employees.

Obesity kills millions per year but noone gives a crap about that. These are the same people that die from most illnesses but now we're supposed to care because it's a new illness. As Americans we should have the choice if we want and possibly get sick or stay at home and lose our job. The media is doing a great job scaring us for a virus that statistically is killing less than the flu.

Corona clinics in China are closing now because there aren't as many cases anymore.
Corona clinics in China are closing now because there aren't as many cases anymore

You’re making the point you’re trying to argue against.
 
You can compare aspects of it with the flu like you could any other disease like infection rates, mortality rates, etc.. I see many doctors comparing many of the symptoms to flu symptoms. You are referring to the more serious conditions this virus causes and I see few people dispute that and state it is just like the flu.
I believe he is referring to the people saying it is the flu, which is an outright lie. There is a difference between comparing them and stating they are the same thing.
 
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i saw an article today when i google image searched ‘chinese wet market’ from a uk article on jan 21st.

se asia (incl. china) had 325, yes, 325 positive tests and 6 deaths.

interesting refresher on where we come in ~60 days.
 
Hmmm, so everyone should cower in fear of the terrible virus thats a little worse than the flu so YOU can be ok and SMALL & LARGE BUSINESSES ALL OVER THE WORLD CLOSE. I guarantee people are going to lose their jobs and homes due to all this. That is far worse than the potential of losing someone's grandma. My mother is in her 70's and she's still going out, I went to go visit her yesterday and she laughed about this whole thing and said everyone dies.
There's always going to be other viruses coming out. Swine flu, bird flu, zika etc. The media is always looking for ways to scare us to control us.
Losing your job or some monetary possession is far worse than losing loved ones ??. Are you five have you ever lost a loved one, most people would give anything to have them back
 
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What do you expect them to do? The man they idolize says he thinks this is under control and wants to have packed churches by Easter. They’ve put their full faith in one man and it’s ride or die by his words.
You need to let go of the hate your life will be more fullfilling
 
So as a hypothetical which is worse, having 1 person die vs having 1000 people lose their jobs & homes. Or having one person die vs having 100 small businesses close and laying off all their employees.

Obesity kills millions per year but noone gives a crap about that. These are the same people that die from most illnesses but now we're supposed to care because it's a new illness. As Americans we should have the choice if we want to work and possibly get sick or stay at home and lose our job. The media is doing a great job scaring us for a virus that statistically is killing less than the flu. And if anyone thinks the media isn't using this against Trump in an election year you're crazy.

Corona clinics in China are closing now because there aren't as many cases anymore.
Maybe we should have a good old fashioned world war and kill a billion or so That would certainly help global warming
 
Snohomish, you're acting like there is only one right answer. That's not the case. There is no right answer. I have a friend with three young kids who just got laid off. How does he feed his kids now? How does he pay his mortgage? And he is just one out of millions like this. If this goes on much longer it could be 50 million jobs. That could be up to half the country who can't pay bils, can't buy food, etc. Will anyone die from that? I'm not saying what you said is wrong because its not. Its just that people on the other side aren't wrong either. There are going to be decisions and trade-offs, and some people on each side are going to get hurt, and some will die.
 
I think when this is all done we'll see we all overreacted. We're all going to get it eventually and living in fear is no way to live. Like Trump said, the treatment is worse than the virus. The flu is a corona virus and almost everyone will be ok. We should quarantine the immunocompromised and everyone else needs to get back to work and stop watching the news. Someones grandma or grandpa will die, just like every other illness but that isn't as bad as a good portion of the population losing their jobs, small and large businesses closing, and the economy going into a freefall.
The regular flu doesn't do to NYC what is currently happening there.

But, since you have the ho-hum mindset, kindly provide us a list of family members you are willing to sacrifice....

You really have no clue....
 
I believe he is referring to the people saying it is the flu, which is an outright lie. There is a difference between comparing them and stating they are the same thing.
Exactly. If someone is going to come and tell me how i should react to this. Or tell people they are over reacting.... Don't come in with misinformation. They look either clueless or ignorant.
 
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If you kill someone with a virus that they have no immunities to. Who's fault is that? the person who is at risk, or you because you got infected not taking it serious enough. Its not life when your actions result in the death of another - that is not called normal its called something else
Newsflash. You don’t have immunity to a lot of shit. Like I said, you should be protected but you also have aged. We can’t just shut down the US because life has caught up to you.
 
So as a hypothetical which is worse, having 1 person die vs having 1000 people lose their jobs & homes. Or having one person die vs having 100 small businesses close and laying off all their employees.

Obesity kills millions per year but noone gives a crap about that. These are the same people that die from most illnesses but now we're supposed to care because it's a new illness. As Americans we should have the choice if we want to work and possibly get sick or stay at home and lose our job. The media is doing a great job scaring us for a virus that statistically is killing less than the flu. And if anyone thinks the media isn't using this against Trump in an election year you're crazy.

Corona clinics in China are closing now because there aren't as many cases anymore.
Obesity isn't contagious. My mother isn't going to track obesity home from the grocery store and potentially kill my father.
 
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To be fair, Dr. Fauci published an article stating:

If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted
 
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Someones grandma or grandpa will die......
If you think only grandparents will die from this virus then you are one ignorant dumbass.

Absent a vaccine, thousands if not tens of thousands from infant to middle age will die from the coronavirus.
 
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To be fair, Dr. Fauci published an article stating:

If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted
But we can't assume that will be the case at this point.
 
Anyone paying attention to the "doubling" rate. The number of days it takes for total case to double. We are sitting at just under 3 days. Italy is currently at about every 6 days. China was also at around 5 or 6 days at this point in their process. Germany is at about 4 already. Spain is also hitting every 4 days. Which makes me assuming we are going to be in much worse shape than all of them.
More tests more cases...we are still testing. Italy isn't even counting all of the deaths, germany is misreporting severe cases for some reason, Spain has to conserve PPE and can only test those that help with treatment...our overall death rate is lower because we test a lot more, albeit inconsistently...the only numbers that matter are hospitalizations, deaths, and recovered...and although testing is important..only the tracking and quarantine matters...google needs to get the maps going so we know where cases are active right now.
 
Snohomish, you're acting like there is only one right answer. That's not the case. There is no right answer. I have a friend with three young kids who just got laid off. How does he feed his kids now? How does he pay his mortgage? And he is just one out of millions like this. If this goes on much longer it could be 50 million jobs. That could be up to half the country who can't pay bils, can't buy food, etc. Will anyone die from that? I'm not saying what you said is wrong because its not. Its just that people on the other side aren't wrong either. There are going to be decisions and trade-offs, and some people on each side are going to get hurt, and some will die.
Its a mess and its all important however there in my opinion is as much misinformation on the economic side as the medical side. First its temporary lenders are already starting to make accommodations for people. This is not 2008 when some stripper bought ten rental properties this is not peoples fault. Banks and by extension Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac I believe will be offering all people who want 2-3 months of payment deferrals. This is not some modification deal where you have to be in foreclosure to get it, this simply moves the payments to the end of the term. It used to be common place but hasnt been used in some years but is possible and lenders know about and know how to do it. This ca also be done with auto payments think of the financial impact if you do not have to pay a mortgage and car loan for 3 months. That and it does not cost the bank anything to do, there are some issues with how mortgages are funded but the fed is fronting that money right now in the tune of 100 billion almost daily so they own that market. Its cheap no one is giving money to anyone its just a reset of terms

Do not sacrifice short term gain for someones life people will regret it and have to live with that decision.
 
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Newsflash. You don’t have immunity to a lot of shit. Like I said, you should be protected but you also have aged. We can’t just shut down the US because life has caught up to you.

How about the medical professionals who will die because they have to treat the increase in patients, are they expendable according to your math also. Seems like you get to decide what is most important. I am at more risk from the virus than from economic damage what makes your priority in life more important than mine. Especially since I am talking about life and you are talking about buying a TV
 
The very first stat one needs to look at is the number of recoveries not the number of deaths. As the number of positive tests increases, the mortality rate decreases. 1 person tests positive and dies, mortality rate 100%, zero people survived the virus. 200 people test positive 10 dead, mortality rate is 5%, but 190 people have survived the virus. 5000 people test positive 100 dead, mortality rate is 2% but 4900 people have survived the virus.

Isn't it weird how we don't hear about the mortality rate anymore on the news. All we hear about is then number of dead. Why is that? Is a 1.4% mortality rate not quite the same as the 10% mortality rate from February?

Yes having 994 people die, as of the time of this post, sucks. But so far there are 68,440 confirmed cases. The mortality rate is about 1.4% That doesn't include the number of people that had the virus, didn't even know it and no longer have the virus. How many people get the flu, don't go to the doctor, simply stay home, suck down fluids, take theraflu or whatever, puke, sweat, feel like shit, then get better, go back to work. They aren't counted in the number of people that had the flu. So when we calculate the mortality rate of the flu, those people aren't included. We only count the the cases where the patient tested positive for the flu and compare it to the number of people who died from the flu.

How many cases are there, where a patient who is in the hospital for kidney failure, and ends up getting the flu or pneumonia and dies. Does the hospital code that as a flu death? Pneumonia death or kidney failure death?

With this virus, so many of the deaths are people that were knocking on death's door anyway. Yes, it sucks that they last few days of their lives were cut short, but it isn't like the majority of the deaths are healthy 35 year olds that are stricken with this thing.

I am pretty sure I had it. I felt like crap for a few days, stayed home, self quarantined for 2 weeks and got better. Now I feel fine.

I think the virus is dangerous. But I tend to agree, at least in my part of the world in Houston area, that we are going to look back at this and think what the hell were we thinking, we killed an economy for something that is going to kill less than the flu, heart disease, cancer, drunk driving accidents, and walking in front of a bus.

As I stated earlier, the official statistics show that as of today at 4pm, roughly 2 months after the first case of coronovirus in the US was confirmed, there have been 68,440 confirmed cases and 994 deaths. That is going to increase over the next 10 days.....However

The H1N1 virus in 2009, IN THE US, 60.8 million people were diagnosed with the disease, 274,304 people were hospitalized and 12,469 people died.

In order to reach 12,469 deaths in 2020, the Coronovirus is going to have to kill 12 times the number of US people it has killed so far, and roughly 60,732,000 more people are going to have to be diagnosed with it to reach 2009 H1N1 levels.

Freak out, don't freak out, whatever, at least examine facts and not just spread fear based on what some doctor in NY or Seattle says when you don't live in NY or Seattle.
 
The very first stat one needs to look at is the number of recoveries not the number of deaths. As the number of positive tests increases, the mortality rate decreases. 1 person tests positive and dies, mortality rate 100%, zero people survived the virus. 200 people test positive 10 dead, mortality rate is 5%, but 190 people have survived the virus. 5000 people test positive 100 dead, mortality rate is 2% but 4900 people have survived the virus.

Isn't it weird how we don't hear about the mortality rate anymore on the news. All we hear about is then number of dead. Why is that? Is a 1.4% mortality rate not quite the same as the 10% mortality rate from February?

Yes having 994 people die, as of the time of this post, sucks. But so far there are 68,440 confirmed cases. The mortality rate is about 1.4% That doesn't include the number of people that had the virus, didn't even know it and no longer have the virus. How many people get the flu, don't go to the doctor, simply stay home, suck down fluids, take theraflu or whatever, puke, sweat, feel like shit, then get better, go back to work. They aren't counted in the number of people that had the flu. So when we calculate the mortality rate of the flu, those people aren't included. We only count the the cases where the patient tested positive for the flu and compare it to the number of people who died from the flu.

How many cases are there, where a patient who is in the hospital for kidney failure, and ends up getting the flu or pneumonia and dies. Does the hospital code that as a flu death? Pneumonia death or kidney failure death?

With this virus, so many of the deaths are people that were knocking on death's door anyway. Yes, it sucks that they last few days of their lives were cut short, but it isn't like the majority of the deaths are healthy 35 year olds that are stricken with this thing.

I am pretty sure I had it. I felt like crap for a few days, stayed home, self quarantined for 2 weeks and got better. Now I feel fine.

I think the virus is dangerous. But I tend to agree, at least in my part of the world in Houston area, that we are going to look back at this and think what the hell were we thinking, we killed an economy for something that is going to kill less than the flu, heart disease, cancer, drunk driving accidents, and walking in front of a bus.

As I stated earlier, the official statistics show that as of today at 4pm, roughly 2 months after the first case of coronovirus in the US was confirmed, there have been 68,440 confirmed cases and 994 deaths. That is going to increase over the next 10 days.....However

The H1N1 virus in 2009, IN THE US, 60.8 million people were diagnosed with the disease, 274,304 people were hospitalized and 12,469 people died.

In order to reach 12,469 deaths in 2020, the Coronovirus is going to have to kill 12 times the number of US people it has killed so far, and roughly 60,732,000 more people are going to have to be diagnosed with it to reach 2009 H1N1 levels.

Freak out, don't freak out, whatever, at least examine facts and not just spread fear based on what some doctor in NY or Seattle says when you don't live in NY or Seattle.
And it is very likely we reach those numbers if we don’t make changes. The numbers you quoted for h1n1 covered the span of 12 months. Covid-19 is growing exponentially as we speak and testing is woefully behind. Already since your post the numbers have increased to 81,000 cases and over 1,000 dead (or you just grabbed outdated stats).
 
And it is very likely we reach those numbers if we don’t make changes. The numbers you quoted for h1n1 covered the span of 12 months. Covid-19 is growing exponentially as we speak and testing is woefully behind. Already since your post the numbers have increased to 81,000 cases and over 1,000 dead (or you just grabbed outdated stats).
3 weeks after the first H1N1 death in the US, 6 people were dead. 3 weeks after the first COVID-19 death in the US, 400+ dead. And only 5 or so days after that, the numbers have now tripled to 1,300 o_O We'll eclipse H1N1 numbers by May at the latest at this rate. Except we've actually done something about it this time with social distancing/quarantining so maybe not :eek:
 
How about the medical professionals who will die because they have to treat the increase in patients, are they expendable according to your math also. Seems like you get to decide what is most important. I am at more risk from the virus than from economic damage what makes your priority in life more important than mine. Especially since I am talking about life and you are talking about buying a TV

the medical profession has exposure everyday to all kinds omg things that can cause them harm. This is just another thing added to the list. Look, life happens and it is right now, but you can’t just shut the world down for something that is probably going to have a way below 1% death rate when it’s all said an done. Protective measures are great, but don’t need lockdown.
 
Why did you interpret hate in my post? Are you suggesting that someone with a different opinion than yours = hate?
What do you expect them to do? The man they idolize says he thinks this is under control and wants to have packed churches by Easter. They’ve put their full faith in one man and it’s ride or die by his words.

You hate trump I get it - or are you convinced your post is a fact and cannot be disputed. The only other way your post an be interpreted is that you hate Trump supporters. Its not a difference of opinion you state your opinion as fact and dismiss anyone who disagrees. I think its certainly reasonable to debate whether to open the economy up but that is not what you are doing
 
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