First Year Recruiting Comparison- Frost, Riley, Bo, Callahan

[davecisar]

Here is a comparison of how these coaches did in the Rivals Rankings in Year 1

Coach------- Ranking----Number of Players--5 star-----4 star---- 3 star
Riley________31___________21___________ 0______6_________12
Bo _________30___________ 28 __________ 1_______2 _________20
Callahan_____27___________20___________0 ______2 _________11

Frost________21___________ 23__________ 0______9__________13
(projected)

This would be by far the best first year out of the gate recruiting job since TO. And after just a 4 win season. Lots to get excited about here. This assumes NU gets just 2 of the 5 four star kids we are in on now and have an extremely good chance of getting commitments from. (cameron Jones, Bell, Sampson, Tannor, Corbin)

 

[JohnRossEwing]

Here is a comparison of how these coaches did in the Rivals Rankings in Year 1

Coach------- Ranking----Number of Players--5 star-----4 star---- 3 star
Riley________31___________21___________ 0______6_________12
Bo _________30___________ 28 __________ 1_______2 _________20
Callahan_____27___________20___________0 ______2 _________11

Frost________21___________ 23__________ 0______9__________13
(projected)

This would be by far the best first year out of the gate recruiting job since TO. And after just a 4 win season. Lots to get excited about here. This assumes NU gets just 2 of the 5 four star kids we are in on now and have an extremely good chance of getting commitments from. (cameron Jones, Bell, Sampson, Tannor, Corbin)

Are you Coach Cisar?

 

[coachDubs]

Are you Coach Cisar?

He's nebraskafaninwi.

 

[JohnRossEwing]

He's nebraskafaninwi.

I remember that name!

 

[davecisar]

For any that thought Riley shouldnt have been let go because he was such an outstanding recruiter- please step aside.

Looks like Frost and his staff have not only the right approach/methodology/process-management in place, but can communicate a vision that is believable, credible and resonates with these kids AND this staff has the work ethic and energy to execute and close.

I cant see a Riley or Cav putting in the 18+ hour days doing this like Frost, Held and Company

Maybe it's changed from a message of- you can have a spot here to get you to the NFL as the primary motivator to something a bit different.

 

[HuskerO]

I cant see a Riley or Cav putting in the 18+ hour days doing this like Frost, Held and Company

Really the number of hours you put in doesn't mean too much (obviously it matters some). It's what you do with that time.

The concern wasn't losing Riley's recruiting work. It was more of "Frost is an unknown in recruiting big boy football where talent is scarce". Frost is proving that he can get it done!

 

[SnohomishRed]

So we now have a coach who it has been can proven can coach kids up and a coach who is very quickly showing he can bring top recruits to NU

All the previous excuses of why we cannot recruit at Nebraska dont seem to be slowing Frost down at all

 

[TwinsRRUs]

Callahan wasn't hired until January 9th, so he had very little time to recruit in his first class. Hard to compare the other coaches to him in that sense.

I hope Frost and his assistants can continue to kick butt in recruiting and close out on what they deem a great class. From the outside looking in, it looks like they are doing very well.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

are you including the players that were already committed to the previous coach as part of the "transition class"

Jurgens and Wildeman are 4 stars that were already in the class, are those subtracted from the Frost number or does he get credit for keeping them in the class? just curious.

Also quite strange to compare a projected class to classes that were signed. I could see it if the players you were projecting to be in were committed and not signed but they are just offered.

Funny how the validity of the crystal balls and such are more "accurate" under Frost than they were Riley. Not that I care, I just like to point out the hypocrisy of it all.

What's next, average star rating will be viewed as acceptable argument?? ha ha ha ha

 

[JohnRossEwing]

It is funny so much as it is that Riley was a cluster**** of a coach that many fans had to jock up as a saint just to have something positive to talk about. Frost is a coach that the fans actually believe can do a good job so there is a huge positive spin to things.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

So you're saying that there is a level of hypocrisy. Things that weren't considered acceptable under Riley, Pelini or Callahan will be ok under Frost because people actually believe he can do a good job.

That's fair. I have been gone for a while and don't have time to read 2 months worth of opinions. I just saw a post that, if written by someone last January, would have been criticized by some of the same posters that are now in support of the what was written, for no other reason than who the coach was.

 

[Yolobomb]

I remember that name!

It's all you have to say to get Deep State Husker Online fired up. It'll take them half a day to get calmed down once you mention that name.

 

[davecisar]

are you including the players that were already committed to the previous coach as part of the "transition class"

Jurgens and Wildeman are 4 stars that were already in the class, are those subtracted from the Frost number or does he get credit for keeping them in the class? just curious.

Also quite strange to compare a projected class to classes that were signed. I could see it if the players you were projecting to be in were committed and not signed but they are just offered.

Funny how the validity of the crystal balls and such are more "accurate" under Frost than they were Riley. Not that I care, I just like to point out the hypocrisy of it all.

What's next, average star rating will be viewed as acceptable argument?? ha ha ha ha

Well all of the coaches on their transition year were given the benefit of the doubt for retains of already recruited kids

Arguably frost has the toughest job of them all
Riley followed 7 years of 9/10 wins
The company line was clean up the play, reduce turnovers, get more aggressive with recruiting and we would be back on top- that simply wasn't the case
Frost followed 2 losing seasons in 3 and the worst Nebraska season since 1961
And he was only part time for the first few weeks on the job

I feel very confident the very conservative projections I made come to fruition

 

[timnsun]

Well all of the coaches on their transition year were given the benefit of the doubt for retains of already recruited kids

Arguably frost has the toughest job of them all
Riley followed 7 years of 9/10 wins
The company line was clean up the play, reduce turnovers, get more aggressive with recruiting and we would be back on top- that simply wasn't the case
Frost followed 2 losing seasons in 3 and the worst Nebraska season since 1961
And he was only part time for the first few weeks on the job

I feel very confident the very conservative projections I made come to fruition

I think you could also make the case that Frost‘s job was actually the easiest when you consider he was coming in with an undefeated season under his belt and a lot of excitement. Nobody asked the question, “who’s Scott Frost?” Everybody already knew. And so if Scott Frost is calling, you listen.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

I haven't followed recruiting much but back in 2005 players used to talk about building a brotherhood and winning championships in college. Now I feel players are focused on getting to the NFL, as evidenced by the numerous, I will be spending the next 3-4 years in "Location" commitment tweets. Almost none of these guys are going to make any money in NFL, but might have a great chance to do something special as a college football player. Plus they have an incredible opportunity to open their horizons to new ideas and job opportunities because they happen to be given college scholarships. I sense a DNFL may be coming...might be trumps next venture.

 

[JohnRossEwing]

So you're saying that there is a level of hypocrisy. Things that weren't considered acceptable under Riley, Pelini or Callahan will be ok under Frost because people actually believe he can do a good job.

That's fair. I have been gone for a while and don't have time to read 2 months worth of opinions. I just saw a post that, if written by someone last January, would have been criticized by some of the same posters that are now in support of the what was written, for no other reason than who the coach was.

There better be hypocrisy...

 

[FeelingFrosty]

So you're saying that there is a level of hypocrisy. Things that weren't considered acceptable under Riley, Pelini or Callahan will be ok under Frost because people actually believe he can do a good job.

That's fair. I have been gone for a while and don't have time to read 2 months worth of opinions. I just saw a post that, if written by someone last January, would have been criticized by some of the same posters that are now in support of the what was written, for no other reason than who the coach was.

No one cares. You're as big of a hypocrite as anyone here.

 

[coachDubs]

are you including the players that were already committed to the previous coach as part of the "transition class"

Below is a legit thread

https://nebraska.forums.rivals.com/...4-2008-2015-2018-updated-12-21-3-35pm.199220/

 

[Huskercigar]

Really the number of hours you put in doesn't mean too much (obviously it matters some). It's what you do with that time.

The concern wasn't losing Riley's recruiting work. It was more of "Frost is an unknown in recruiting big boy football where talent is scarce". Frost is proving that he can get it done!

Sorry but I have to disagree. There was a very strong base of fans and posters who thought we should keep Riley because of his recruiting work.

 

[timnsun]

Sorry but I have to disagree. There was a very strong base of fans and posters who thought we should keep Riley because of his recruiting work.

You’re right, but let’s not think it was all smoke and mirrors at the time... we had guys like Bookie and other top 100 and top 250 guys committed.

I know committed and signed are 2 different things, but until this season went south, he was putting together a very strong class. It’s good to see Frost keeping pace with Riley in such a short time frame. Makes the transition that much better.

 

[RiLLLLLLLLey]

So you're saying that there is a level of hypocrisy. Things that weren't considered acceptable under Riley, Pelini or Callahan will be ok under Frost because people actually believe he can do a good job.

That's fair. I have been gone for a while and don't have time to read 2 months worth of opinions. I just saw a post that, if written by someone last January, would have been criticized by some of the same posters that are now in support of the what was written, for no other reason than who the coach was.

Riley performed poorly both in coaching and recruiting prior to arriving at Nebraska. Then he performed poorly in both once he was at Nebraska.

I’m not anointing Frost the savior, but I felt exponentially better when I learned of his being hired than I did back in 2014 - when Nebraska hired a historically average coach with a historically average recruiting record.

 

[Huskercigar]

I just saw a post that, if written by someone last January, would have been criticized by some of the same posters that are now in support of the what was written, for no other reason than who the coach was.

In all fairness this post couldn't have been written last year because the facts didn't support it. Now the facts do. Where is the hypocrisy you are speaking of?

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

I don't understand anyone who still thinks Riley could recruit, I thought he made a lot of noise, but the returns just flat out didn't match the noise.

 

[Huskercigar]

I think you could also make the case that Frost‘s job was actually the easiest when you consider he was coming in with an undefeated season under his belt and a lot of excitement. Nobody asked the question, “who’s Scott Frost?” Everybody already knew. And so if Scott Frost is calling, you listen.

You mean you guys mis-lead us? I thought you said Mike Riley's name within the inter circles of college football was one the most respected and well known names and given the resources of Nebraska would kill it. In fact even Alabama and Southern Cal tried to hire him.

 

[timnsun]

You mean you guys mis-lead us? I thought you said Mike Riley's name within the inter circles of college football was one the most respected and well known names and given the resources of Nebraska would kill it. In fact even Alabama and Southern Cal tried to hire him.

Yeah, good point, because fans on message boards are the experts here to know all of the info. Don’t be a dolt. What fans were saying about Riley and his connections were what was being said by experts. We didn’t come up with this crap on our own, we shared what other experts had said. But if you want to be stupid and put that on fans on a message board, by all means go ahead. In that case, yeah, we are liars.

 

[RiLLLLLLLLey]

Yeah, good point, because fans on message boards are the experts here to know all of the info. Don’t be a dolt. What fans were saying about Riley and his connections were what was being said by experts. We didn’t come up with this crap on our own, we shared what other experts had said. But if you want to be stupid and put that on fans on a message board, by all means go ahead. In that case, yeah, we are liars.

The only experts in my opinion are those that base their predictions on facts. And data. And performance history.

Those “experts” that proclaimed Riley would somehow knock his 20 year trend of losing 50% of his games - should probably have their expert cards revoked. By ignoring factual data only makes them overly opinionated people, just like us lowly message board posters.

 

[SnohomishRed]

The only experts in my opinion are those that base their predictions on facts. And data. And performance history.

Those “experts” that proclaimed Riley would somehow knock his 20 year trend of losing 50% of his games - should probably have their expert cards revoked. By ignoring factual data only makes them overly opinionated people, just like us lowly message board posters.

Everyone here (I hope) is a Husker fan and wants the team to win. I can understand fans trying to look for positives to certain extent that is part of being a fan. Ignoring a coaches long term and recent trajectory is also not a good thing.

Everyone is behind Frost both because of his accomplishments and because he is one of our own. I say it's time to let the past be the past. Now if you want to talk about Riley's 50,000 a year salary I am all in

 

[davecisar]

The only experts in my opinion are those that base their predictions on facts. And data. And performance history.

Those “experts” that proclaimed Riley would somehow knock his 20 year trend of losing 50% of his games - should probably have their expert cards revoked. By ignoring factual data only makes them overly opinionated people, just like us lowly message board posters.

"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
Winston Churchill

This post started out quoting some very hard data that is real, not contrived. At the end of the day the results are the results- they mean something. Rileys "Everything about this team is great, except for the games" mantra just doesnt cut it. The curtain was pulled up, weve seen the hype created doesnt match the results.

The results either validate that what you are doing makes sense or they dont. So far for what we can quantify, Frost is BLOWING OUT the results of the previous 3 guys first year recruiting results by any reasonable measure. The purpose of the post was to factually quantify early results so people can make their own opinions, based on facts.

The only "speculation" was on the last 2 recruits NU lands. With Frosts closing ratio so far on kids they have visited in home and then got on campus, getting 2 of the 5 four star kids they are on- seems to be very very conservative- not the empty sunshine pumper baloney weve become accustomed to over the last 15 years. Cameron Jones and Bell at this juncture from EVERY indication look like slam dunks. Remember Im the one predicting 6 or 7 regular season wins next year. I also had us in the high to mid 20s on recruiting- when in reality NU is going to finish in the very low 20s- after a disastrous 4 win year and losing seasons in 2 of last 3.

As to who I am, Ive never lived in Wisconsin and the only name Ive ever posted under is my own- my name is who I am- I dont hide behind an anonymous moniker. Season ticket holder since 1970- missed just a handful of games since then.

 

[HuskerO]

Sorry but I have to disagree. There was a very strong base of fans and posters who thought we should keep Riley because of his recruiting work.

In the beginning yes. But once Minnesota happened then any thought of keeping Riley (by pro-Riley fans) went out the door.

 

[timnsun]

The only experts in my opinion are those that base their predictions on facts. And data. And performance history.

Those “experts” that proclaimed Riley would somehow knock his 20 year trend of losing 50% of his games - should probably have their expert cards revoked. By ignoring factual data only makes them overly opinionated people, just like us lowly message board posters.

And I’m sorry for trying to put a positive spin on it and believing a leopard could change his spots. When it became apparent that he couldn’t, I was ready for a change. But before year 3, what good would it have done to moan and groan about how bad Riley was? It wouldn’t have changed a single thing.

At least by giving the coaches a chance I got to enjoy, for however brief a time it was, being a fan of the team, while you and cisar and others couldn’t get behind the guys at all. 3 years of disgust. For me, year 1 was a write-off, year 2 was a Pelini year, and year 3 was the year I was off the Riley train. Sorry I wasn’t as smart as you. But even if I were, what would have changed?

At least I wasn’t bitter for 3 years...

 

[HuskerO]

I don't understand anyone who still thinks Riley could recruit, I thought he made a lot of noise, but the returns just flat out didn't match the noise.

If Riley finished with 8-9 wins then it's very likely we land guys like Bookie, Moore, Chase Williams, Goodrich, etc, etc.

 

[timnsun]

If Riley finished with 8-9 wins then it's very likely we land guys like Bookie, Moore, Chase Williams, Goodrich, etc, etc.

Just save your breath... you’ve just opened up a can that cisar and others are waiting to pounce on.

 

[davecisar]

At least by giving the coaches a chance I got to enjoy, for however brief a time it was, being a fan of the team, while you and cisar and others couldn’t get behind the guys at all..

I went to nearly every game and supported the players AND the coaches. However I knew there was no chance they would succeed. Yes, I tried to tell myself the same baloney NU was spinning positive about the coaches and their approach. Smiling and hoping on the outside, but knowing inside it would never work. At the time I liked him as a person.

After googling MR and then trying to find out who he was back in 2015- I did a quick take on his stats- Im a numbers guy
His pass to run yards ratio while he was at OSU:
2.44 , 1.63 , 3.95
2.2, 2.05, 2.43
1.92, 1.63, 295
4.4, 1.94, 1.12
2.42 , 1.73, 3.32, 2.05

Compare that to the Pass/Run yards ration for the last 10 Title Winners:
1.07
1.49
1.54
.90
.93
1.21
1.0
.81
.89
1.18

So an average of 1.1 for Big 10 Winners vs Mike Rileys average of 2.38
That West Coast O- Pass first- pass often, smartest guy in the room approach simply had ZERO chance of working in the BIG- putting aside the lack of poor fundamentals and lack of toughness

 

[davecisar]

If Riley finished with 8-9 wins then it's very likely we land guys like Bookie, Moore, Chase Williams, Goodrich, etc, etc.

Well not so sure
In 2017 after a NINE win season Rileys class was ranked #20- with
7 four stars and 12 three stars for an average of 3.3 quality points
Im seriously doubting Riley getting 9 four star kids-

Frost in year one after Rileys 4 win season conservatively looks at coming in with 9 four stars 14 three stars and an average of 3.39 quality points- probably coming in at 21 or maybe even 20. This after only recruiting for what- 5-6 weeks now?

Will be interesting to see what Frost can do in recruiting with a full year of putting a class together- after year 2 if he can get to 9 wins.

 

[Mtnhusker]

Just save your breath... you’ve just opened up a can that cisar and others are waiting to pounce on.

Agree, who are these posters and why are they so negative? Really seem to have an agenda fluffing Frost and slamming Riley. Stats, numbers, facts, records......can be manipulated to support any of the arguments that are being brought up by both sides. Recruiting is not an exact science and you can't base it just on ratings during transition years because all of those firing/hirings had different circumstances. Coaches need commits who fit their system and then they need to develop those players.

Riley was struggling to win us games but anyone doubting the ability of his staff to recruit needs to have their head examined. Before the wheels fell off we had the #1 ranked DB Class plus a highly rated WR class. He had numerous highly rated 4 & 5 Star players that had Nebraska near or at the top of their list. Riley had taken recruiting to a level we hadn't seen since the Callahan's top ranked classes. Lots of questions on HOL from posters wondering if we would have a Top 10 recruiting calls and there was a chance of that, if we had taken care of business on the field. We didn't win games so recruiting took a downturn, Riley & Co were shown the door and Scott Frost was given the keys to the Husker Bandwagon. I hope everyone hops on and supports Scott but see little reason to anoint him "The King" of anything until he has a little more time under his belt guiding the Huskers. The proof will be on the field and might take a year or two to rear it's head. GBR

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

If Riley finished with 8-9 wins then it's very likely we land guys like Bookie, Moore, Chase Williams, Goodrich, etc, etc.

But we didn't, all the way around, none of that happened.. The returns just flat out never measured up to the hype that was the MR myth that he could recruit.

 

[coachDubs]

Agree, who are these posters and why are they so negative? Really seem to have an agenda fluffing Frost and slamming Riley.

.

 

[davecisar]

A Stats, numbers, facts, records......can be manipulated to support any of the arguments that are being brought up by both sides. Recruiting is not an exact science a

Riley was struggling to win us games but anyone doubting the ability of his staff to recruit needs to have their head examined.

Feel free to make a statistical argument for why Mike Riley is a great coach and recruiter. After he was fired from NU- he had zero offers to Head Coach anywhere in DI- no one was lining up to get his services- nor were they in 2015 when NU hired him.

As to MR being a great recruiter- lots of us, myself included felt that he was. However when you use any of the ranking services numbers- none of them show him to be much better than Bo. In fact Rileys most productive recruit Stanley Morgan- committed to Bo's staff. And before any of the Riley lovers jump in- I was not a Bo fan and glad he got fired.

This was a house of cards destined to collapse. When you cant get the consistently good results that have to be gotten on the field, then the hype loses all credibility. MR was never that coach and he was never going to be that coach.

 

[Mtnhusker]

Feel free to make a statistical argument for why Mike Riley is a great coach and recruiter. After he was fired from NU- he had zero offers to Head Coach anywhere in DI- no one was lining up to get his services- nor were they in 2015 when NU hired him.

As to MR being a great recruiter- lots of us, myself included felt that he was. However when you use any of the ranking services numbers- none of them show him to be much better than Bo. In fact Rileys most productive recruit Stanley Morgan- committed to Bo's staff. And before any of the Riley lovers jump in- I was not a Bo fan and glad he got fired.

This was a house of cards destined to collapse. When you cant get the consistently good results that have to be gotten on the field, then the hype loses all credibility. MR was never that coach and he was never going to be that coach.

Most of us know who you are and don't buy into your BS. You basically recycled info from an article in the World Herald written by Sam. Good job trying to pose as someone who actually knows something by copying other people's work.

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/footba...cle_facde256-81f6-56cf-9de1-3b2280df2808.html

 

[coachDubs]

You basically recycled info from an article in the World Herald written by Sam.

Priceless.