Fall Camp Thread

jeans1515

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Sep 30, 2016
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The only reason it would be understandable that he would be allowed another year after a five year season is simply because we're all tired of the revolving door coaching. I, and many fans, are past the "native son" situation (not just because of the win/loss column.) You are right, another losing season and he's probably going to have to hire some new assistants if he wants another chance.
If he has a 5-6 win season I could see it going either way as regards to firing/retaining him, and honestly I'd be fine either way as of right now (season circumstances can change that opinion either way). I'm tired of the losing but I also know that another re-start isn't ideal.

At the absolute most he has only two years left of 6 wins or less. Probably only two years of 7 or less.
I don't want to even fathom the thought of winning 0-4 this season and what that would mean.
Im more tired of losing.

We arent firing winning coaches. And that can kill a program to hold onto losing coaches. .

With the new rules we cant afford to do that.
 

oldjar07

Graduate Assistant
Oct 25, 2009
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The only reason it would be understandable that he would be allowed another year after a five year season is simply because we're all tired of the revolving door coaching. I, and many fans, are past the "native son" situation (not just because of the win/loss column.) You are right, another losing season and he's probably going to have to hire some new assistants if he wants another chance.
If he has a 5-6 win season I could see it going either way as regards to firing/retaining him, and honestly I'd be fine either way as of right now (season circumstances can change that opinion either way). I'm tired of the losing but I also know that another re-start isn't ideal.

At the absolute most he has only two years left of 6 wins or less. Probably only two years of 7 or less.
I don't want to even fathom the thought of winning 0-4 this season and what that would mean.
He's had multiple chances to fix any staff issues. I don't know how much more obvious this was needed after 3 straight losing seasons, and yet he still refuses to even attempt to put together a winning staff. No, he's made his bed, now he can lie in it. Only 5 or 6 wins and his ass needs to be out the door.

Also, the revolving door thing is such a lame excuse. The average head coaching tenure is only around 4 or 5 years, and the average assistant coach tenure is only around 2 to 3 years. Longevity is great only if you have the right guy. It's looking highly unlikely Frost is that guy.
 
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huskerfan1414

Graduate Assistant
Oct 25, 2014
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He's had multiple chances to fix any staff issues. I don't know how much more obvious this was needed after 3 straight losing seasons, and yet he still refuses to even attempt to put together a winning staff. No, he's made his bed, now he can lie in it. Only 5 or 6 wins and his ass needs to be out the door.

Also, the revolving door thing is such a lame excuse. The average head coaching tenure is only around 4 or 5 years, and the average assistant coach tenure is only around 2 to 3 years. Longevity is great only if you have the right guy. It's looking highly unlikely Frost is that guy.
Yeah, that's a good argument and I see why people are tired of it.

Like I said, I'm indifferent on it and I can see the arguments from both sides.

Let's hope it's a moot point and we actually show improvement this season that propels us forward. But if the past is any indication it doesn't look good. But you never know.
 

redfanusa

All-American
Feb 6, 2009
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looks like everyone's favorite play, where AM rolls to his left & throws back across his body to the middle of the field, is still being featured:
That's depressing. When your highlight reel includes your worst play, that's a bad omen.

Nebraska's final win of the season may be against Buffalo. On the 20th anniversary of 9/11, no less.
 

jflores

Offensive Coordinator
Feb 3, 2004
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Not sure I agree with this. Frost is making bank, and the assistants haven't proven themselves to be worthy of top $$. When Frost came here, he was in the driver's seat because he was thoroughly trusted, but in year 4, unless the team is impressive, he will have lost that trust and he will be in no position to be making demands on anyone, especially the new AD who isn't going to be made a fool. If we underperform again, I am confident that there is going to be hard talk between those two because Frost doesn't have the capital anymore to act like his shit doesn't stink. If Frost really wants to be here for more than another year or two, he'll play ball if that situation arises. Regarding having to spend a ton on a new coaching staff, I don't think that a high price tag is going to necessarily be a deterrent if he thinks it will get us back to prominence.

I mean its not uncommon to see on this board even, of fairly invested fans, the comment that we should pay *proven* coaches $5 million, but Frost in not proven. The connotation seems to be there that NU is spending truckloads of money, (which compared to historically we are), but compared to the landscape of modern CFB, it is not. Scott's #17 in the country in compensation, and if you figure that you are willing to shell out $4-$5 million for an unproven coach with upside, basically the top 40 teams in CFB pay that kind of cheddar. This is not rarefied air we are paying here.

If you wanna live at the top, you are going to have to pay in the ballpark of 50% more for the HC of a number we're already kinda leery of collectively and we would have to radically shell out more money for matching coordinators. Scott is the golden boy, so if he had a change of heart and wanted a couple million for the top coordinator in FB he might get it, but I don't get the vibe that most of Husker nation is of the opinion we need to have $12 million on tap for three guys on the coaching staff.
 
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dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
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When the recruiting is at the top of the big ten west for most years and the team is finishing at the bottom, its not talent, its coaching.
You don't necessarily go from recruiting well to being able to have that translate on the field in a year or even two usually. Everyone agrees that his hastily thrown together first class was largely a bust. That shouldn't be that surprising. So really we're just getting to the point IMO this year to expect his recruits to produce. Every single former Husker I listened to said that he was going to need 4-5 years to rebuild the roster that Riley left him. There should be no excuses this year other than an injury to Martinez and even then that lies at Frost's feet for losing Gebbia and recruiting Luke. No excuses. He needs to win this year. He has the talent now and has had the time to develop his line and implement his systems.
 

oldjar07

Graduate Assistant
Oct 25, 2009
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You don't necessarily go from recruiting well to being able to have that translate on the field in a year or even two usually. Everyone agrees that his hastily thrown together first class was largely a bust. That shouldn't be that surprising. So really we're just getting to the point IMO this year to expect his recruits to produce. Every single former Husker I listened to said that he was going to need 4-5 years to rebuild the roster that Riley left him. There should be no excuses this year other than an injury to Martinez and even then that lies at Frost's feet for losing Gebbia and recruiting Luke. No excuses. He needs to win this year. He has the talent now and has had the time to develop his line and implement his systems.
There was no excuses 3 years ago and he needed to win 3 years ago. He's long overdue.
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
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There was no excuses 3 years ago and he needed to win 3 years ago. He's long overdue.
There were legitimate reasons for them to struggle 3 years ago. I agree that they easily could have won a couple of more games each and every year Frost has been at NU and he admits that. Time to win the 50/50 games and games we're supposed to win. I believe there's a better chance that we do that this year.
 
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John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
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You don't necessarily go from recruiting well to being able to have that translate on the field in a year or even two usually. Everyone agrees that his hastily thrown together first class was largely a bust. That shouldn't be that surprising. So really we're just getting to the point IMO this year to expect his recruits to produce. Every single former Husker I listened to said that he was going to need 4-5 years to rebuild the roster that Riley left him. There should be no excuses this year other than an injury to Martinez and even then that lies at Frost's feet for losing Gebbia and recruiting Luke. No excuses. He needs to win this year. He has the talent now and has had the time to develop his line and implement his systems.
getting Haarberg meaningful reps this year is the best thing that could happen to Frost and our future

farting around with AM any longer won't win us games in the near term and will cost us valuable experience long term

we need to cut our losses. AM staying arguably caused the most long-term damage of any player in Frost's first class.

2021 season is meaningless anyway. we all agree Frost isn't going anywhere no matter what happens, and we have less than a snowball's chance in hell to win any meaningful games, so why not see if we have an actual player in #10?
 
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vs540husker

Offensive Coordinator
Oct 3, 2004
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That's depressing. When your highlight reel includes your worst play, that's a bad omen.

Nebraska's final win of the season may be against Buffalo. On the 20th anniversary of 9/11, no less.


1423473966_yup.gif
 

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
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I truly, honestly don't understand what good trotting AM out as a starter at all this year accomplishes.

the best year of his life led to 4 wins. his ceiling, if everything breaks right and the supporting cast/defense/special teams are the best we've had in decades, is, what, 7 wins?

Frost is playing with house money contractually. why he wouldn't fold the hand he's been holding and losing with for 3 years in hopes of snagging an ace is beyond comprehension.

nobody is looking for feel-good seasons or moral victories. Trev said it best: all that matter at Nebraska are titles. so why don't we act like it?
 
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phoenix4nu

All-American
May 10, 2009
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I truly, honestly don't understand what good trotting AM out as a starter at all this year accomplishes.

the best year of his life led to 4 wins. his ceiling, if everything breaks right and the supporting cast/defense/special teams are the best we've had in decades, is, what, 7 wins?

Frost is playing with house money contractually. why he wouldn't fold the hand he's been holding and losing with for 3 years in hopes of snagging an ace is beyond comprehension.

nobody is looking for feel-good seasons or moral victories. Trev said it best: all that matter at Nebraska are titles. so why don't we act like it?
He doesn't have a choice. Starting a young player with no game experience would result in a worse record than starting Martinez. Frost is responsible for not having a choice, but that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have a choice now.
 
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John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
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He doesn't have a choice. Starting a young player with no game experience would result in a worse record than starting Martinez. Frost is responsible for not having a choice, but the fact remains that he doesn't have a choice now.
3-9 and 5-7 and 6-6 and 7-5 are the exact same record as far as I'm concerned. Frost won't be fired regardless, so unless we're going to actually win (see: compete for the conference title), who cares?

we're just pushing back starting a young player with no game experience an entire year (potentially 2, lord help us) by trotting out AM, and we're highly likely to have nothing to show for it.

I truly don't understand. AM would continue to be a consummate teammate beginning the season as the backup, and it would be a nice soft landing should Haarberg fail like Luke did (except Frost should commit to it, unlike he did with Luke).
 

phoenix4nu

All-American
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3-9 and 5-7 and 6-6 and 7-5 are the exact same record as far as I'm concerned. Frost won't be fired regardless, so unless we're going to actually win (see: compete for the conference title), who cares?

we're just pushing back starting a young player with no game experience an entire year (potentially 2, lord help us) by trotting out AM, and we're highly likely to have nothing to show for it.

I truly don't understand. AM would continue to be a consummate teammate beginning the season as the backup, and it would be a nice soft landing should Haarberg fail like Luke did (except Frost should commit to it, unlike he did with Luke).
Do you really think any coach in the country would start Haarberg instead of Martinez beginning with the first game? I don't.
 

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
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Do you really think any coach in the country would start Haarberg instead of Martinez beginning with the first game? I don't.
absolutely. we see true freshmen usurp vets on a yearly basis.

we're building. AM laid the foundation, now we're 4 years more mature/deep/turned over. why not utilize his experience/attitude to propel a potential program changing talent forward? he's a great teammate, he's not a great QB. play to his strengths.

as for Haarberg, he has the best arm maybe ever in the scarlet and cream. we have an experience O-Line, a pretty good D and maybe some talent on O. I literally cannot think of a better setup to take a chance like this, considering the known quantity we can always go back to.

run it & chuck it deep.
 
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TruHusker

Assistant Head Coach
Sep 21, 2001
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You don't necessarily go from recruiting well to being able to have that translate on the field in a year or even two usually. Everyone agrees that his hastily thrown together first class was largely a bust. That shouldn't be that surprising. So really we're just getting to the point IMO this year to expect his recruits to produce. Every single former Husker I listened to said that he was going to need 4-5 years to rebuild the roster that Riley left him. There should be no excuses this year other than an injury to Martinez and even then that lies at Frost's feet for losing Gebbia and recruiting Luke. No excuses. He needs to win this year. He has the talent now and has had the time to develop his line and implement his systems.
Rebuild to what level? They aren't talking winning 3-4 games level. Four years gets a full class through and likely your second will be one of your best and sophomores and juniors at that 4th and 5th years. Eventually your team can't be continually called "young " and someone should be on the hook for development. Those former Huskers are talking championship level play, not losing or even .500 seasons. We aren't even close to that after year 3.
 
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jflores

Offensive Coordinator
Feb 3, 2004
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Three wins and seven wins to Rambo are the same thing but they would not be to Husker nation writ large. One would be an implosion the other the first actual bowl game and sign of progress in the Frost era. Most importantly I don't believe trev would consider them equivalent seasons either.

From a coaching perspective I believe most coaches at both the pro and college level don't believe in playing a guy early just to see if he's a gamer. He's got to be ready or they will potentially destroy him. There are exception to this general stance but it does seem to be the norm.

Haarburg has a great arm but plenty of guys have walked through here with great arms who weren't good football players. There were alot of NFL guys with great arms that didn't translate into being a good QB. If he's ready at this stage to succeed Martinez then by all means start him. But every camp darling who throws a crisp ball isn't necessarily ready to be dubbed the future of Husker football by starting day one.
 

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
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Three wins and seven wins to Rambo are the same thing but they would not be to Husker nation writ large. One would be an implosion the other the first actual bowl game and sign of progress in the Frost era. Most importantly I don't believe trev would consider them equivalent seasons either.

From a coaching perspective I believe most coaches at both the pro and college level don't believe in playing a guy early just to see if he's a gamer. He's got to be ready or they will potentially destroy him. There are exception to this general stance but it does seem to be the norm.

Haarburg has a great arm but plenty of guys have walked through here with great arms who weren't good football players. There were alot of NFL guys with great arms that didn't translate into being a good QB. If he's ready at this stage to succeed Martinez then by all means start him. But every camp darling who throws a crisp ball isn't necessarily ready to be dubbed the future of Husker football by starting day one.
7 wins with a lameduck would technically be "progress", I guess.

3 wins with some flashes gets us pretty excited, though!

Trev isn't touching Frost no matter what happens on the field in 2021. '22 will be judgement day for him, however. I'd rather have a full year under the successor's belt, ready or not, than a peanut bowl appearance.
 

dinglefritz

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Jan 14, 2011
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7 wins with a lameduck would technically be "progress", I guess.

3 wins with some flashes gets us pretty excited, though!

Trev isn't touching Frost no matter what happens on the field in 2021. '22 will be judgement day for him, however. I'd rather have a full year under the successor's belt, ready or not, than a peanut bowl appearance.
I don't believe Frost's leash will be very long for Adrian if he starts seeing the same F ups he saw last year. The best case scenario is that AM has his stuff together this season, plays like a senior, and Haarberg gets reps in blowout wins.
 

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
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I don't believe Frost's leash will be very long for Adrian if he starts seeing the same F ups he saw last year. The best case scenario is that AM has his stuff together this season, plays like a senior, and Haarberg gets reps in blowout wins.
all the more reason to take the pressure off him & play to his strength, which is being a great teammate.

I would rather Frost make a move too early than too late (again).
 
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dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
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Rebuild to what level? They aren't talking winning 3-4 games level. Four years gets a full class through and likely your second will be one of your best and sophomores and juniors at that 4th and 5th years. Eventually your team can't be continually called "young " and someone should be on the hook for development. Those former Huskers are talking championship level play, not losing or even .500 seasons. We aren't even close to that after year 3.
That first full class was largely as waste of scholarships. Most people I listen to and read think the roster is in a much better place than it's been other than at QB.....the most important position on your team. IMO, this team's success will hinge on our QB just like most other teams in football all over the country. If AM plays up to his potential this could be a good year and we'll see the fruits of those next recruiting classes. If AM gets hurt or has his head up his butt, we'll struggle once again regardless of how anybody else plays.
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
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all the more reason to take the pressure off him & play to his strength, which is being a great teammate.

I would rather Frost make a move too early than too late (again).
I believe that if we see Adrian come out and turn the ball over twice in our first half, that he'll not get a chance to make it 3 turnovers in that first half.
 

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
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That first full class was largely as waste of scholarships. Most people I listen to and read think the roster is in a much better place than it's been other than at QB.....the most important position on your team. IMO, this team's success will hinge on our QB just like most other teams in football all over the country. If AM plays up to his potential this could be a good year and we'll see the fruits of those next recruiting classes. If AM gets hurt or has his head up his butt, we'll struggle once again regardless of how anybody else plays.
not regardless in the case Haarberg is up to the challenge.
 

John_J_Rambo

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 10, 2020
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I believe that if we see Adrian come out and turn the ball over twice in our first half, that he'll not get a chance to make it 3 turnovers in that first half.
which begs the question, once more: what is the point of having him start the season?

his ceiling is, what, 6-7 wins? then he's gone and we're starting someone new the following season?

2021 is a wash. let's actually keep building instead of rinsing and repeating the last 3 years on offense.

moral victories and a meaningless bowl game would represent a 4-year summit for the AM-led Huskers. it is an exercise in futility when we could use this free season to get valuable experience for the next leader, whose ceiling 3-4 years from now will unquestionably be higher than AM's this year, if only due to the maturation of our roster and Frost's work in turning it over to your earlier point.
 

oldjar07

Graduate Assistant
Oct 25, 2009
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Neither Haarberg nor Smothers is ready to takeover the starting spot this year. That was blatantly obvious in the spring game. If it comes down to that, we're in deep shit.
 

xrugger

Walk On
Aug 15, 2001
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@xrugger

Here is a football thread for you. Discuss
I will join in the football discussion when I've something to add. At this point, I agree with you that most of us are waiting to see some results. I'll admit to wanting badly to (again) buy in to the KoolAid. I think there are reasons to believe we should go 7-5. There are two sure wins and two sure losses but the remainder of the games could go either way. If we cease shooting ourselves in the foot, we should be able to go 5-3 in those either-way games. Perhaps that is a big ask given the past few years. I can't argue with that. There will have to be a number of things go right that are solidly in the who-knows category at this point.
 
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If Martinez can play like he did his freshmen year we are in for a good season. He has way more talent around him than he did that year. We have lost so many games by just a few points. An extra year for the team in the weight room and a little more experience and depth could possibly overcome those few points. We will see. This year can go really good or really bad and neither would surprise me. But saying Adrian's best is 6-7 wins because that's what he has done in the past is a naive viewpoint. We just don't know, there's too many variables.