Davis×2, Daniels×2, Stille..it feels like this should be a serviceable line no?
D Line next year
- Thread starter LHNEAGLE
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Not unless they improve. Not one of the players you mentioned showed any signs last year of being a strong run stopper or a strong pass rusher. Perhaps another year of development will change that. I hope so. I am not trying to be negative. I want to be positive. But in my opinion, the Davis twins are what they are and won’t be getting much better. Daniels and Stille may have more upside, but they have yet to prove it. Let’s hope they do.
For what NU does, the Davis twins are average. Play them more at 3 or 4 tech as seniors and they would no longer be average. I could see Kahlil having a similar NFL career as a Maliek Collins. That said, I'm not sure Coach Chinander will want to flip back and forth from a 3-4 to a 4-3 since it would complicate things for the young LBs and safeties who will certainly be getting playing time. Stille- got to love the effort and talent level, but he's undersized for what they ask him to do and well coached teams try to run straight at him.
I can see the DL being much improved next year.
1. Having a NT will be a big deal for us. Daniels will have another year of S&C and should play more snaps, while his brother will also add depth. That means less time for C. Davis at NT - everyone will look better with real NTs at the center of this defense
2. Stille will be another year into his conversion. He is up about 60 lbs from what he was in HS and another year with Duval/Ellis will make a big difference
3. Another year of S&C for the Daniels twins will be big. I thought they showed improvement down the stretch, and while they will never be a perfect fit for a 3-4, they can play in the rotation and might give us some opportunity to experiment with some sets with an extra DL on the field as well.
In general, the recruiting here is going the right way. We are getting real NTs and getting DE's who will be long enough to anchor and deflect the short passing game with their length
Bigger issues to me:
1. Find a LB who can rush the QB and play flexible as more of an "Elephant" who can sit up on the line or drop into coverage and who can stuff the run
2. Get our LB's and safeties coached to fill the right gaps as presented by the DL play (a HUGE problem last year)
1. Having a NT will be a big deal for us. Daniels will have another year of S&C and should play more snaps, while his brother will also add depth. That means less time for C. Davis at NT - everyone will look better with real NTs at the center of this defense
2. Stille will be another year into his conversion. He is up about 60 lbs from what he was in HS and another year with Duval/Ellis will make a big difference
3. Another year of S&C for the Daniels twins will be big. I thought they showed improvement down the stretch, and while they will never be a perfect fit for a 3-4, they can play in the rotation and might give us some opportunity to experiment with some sets with an extra DL on the field as well.
In general, the recruiting here is going the right way. We are getting real NTs and getting DE's who will be long enough to anchor and deflect the short passing game with their length
Bigger issues to me:
1. Find a LB who can rush the QB and play flexible as more of an "Elephant" who can sit up on the line or drop into coverage and who can stuff the run
2. Get our LB's and safeties coached to fill the right gaps as presented by the DL play (a HUGE problem last year)
Agree. I think the Davis twins are what they are and I don’t expect a breakout type season at this point in their careers. Daniels has upside, and I think the addition of the older Daniels is going to be a positive. I have a buddy who’s a big Okie Lite fan and he said Daniels is a solid run stopper. He said he’s not all conference or anything but said Okie Lite was noticeably better stopping the run when he was in the game. Said not a huge loss for them, but his absence will be noticed. All in all I think with a full year plus in S&C another year in the system and some talent upgrade I think we’ll see some progress, but expect it to be a world beating line by any means. We still have a long way to go to build a dominant DL.
The key to this defense is a true Nose who tips the scale North of 320. People who want to rag on the Davis Twins and Stille are being a bit short sided.
If you want to know why Nebraska's defense sucked just imagine a diamond shape around the front 7 on defense.
1. Nebraska lacks a true run stopping Nose. They were often forced to play a Davis twin inside. This left them exposed. Mick was an injured shell and largely ineffective. Damion Daniels has talent, but the endurance of a 68 year old fat man in a walk a thon. The addition of Derrion Daniels will be significant next season. He is a Nose and I think he could probably motivate his little brother.
2. Stille and the Davis Twins would be far more effective and versatile with vastly improved linebacker play. Nebraska had two above average linebackers and two linebackers who were among the worst in the Power 5 at their positions. Barry needs to be the #2 guy. The Huskers need a ball hawk next to him who can make players after the DE in Stille or a Davis, and a Nose, takes on a blocker at the LOS. Dedrick Young simply couldn't do that in 2018, and it killed Nebraska vs. The Run.
3. Now take the outside points of the diamond and place them on the Outside Linebackers. Ty Ferguson was slightly above average, but injured most of 2018. This meant Alex Davis won the job on the weak side by default. Davis is and was the worst defensive starter in the Big Ten. He had terrible instincts, a slow first step, and opposing OCs never once worried about him. Gifford was good, but if you ever want to take the next step, Gifford or Ferguson need to be complimentary parts. The 3-4 DEs like Davis Twins and Stille would be far more effective in the pass rush if offenses had to worry about edge rushers. But they weren't.
All you have to do is look at Wisconsin the last half dozen years:
Nose is always an NFL caliber behemoth.
Inside Linebackers have been repeated All-Americans
Outside Linebackers have been dominant off the edge.
If you want to know why Nebraska's defense sucked just imagine a diamond shape around the front 7 on defense.
1. Nebraska lacks a true run stopping Nose. They were often forced to play a Davis twin inside. This left them exposed. Mick was an injured shell and largely ineffective. Damion Daniels has talent, but the endurance of a 68 year old fat man in a walk a thon. The addition of Derrion Daniels will be significant next season. He is a Nose and I think he could probably motivate his little brother.
2. Stille and the Davis Twins would be far more effective and versatile with vastly improved linebacker play. Nebraska had two above average linebackers and two linebackers who were among the worst in the Power 5 at their positions. Barry needs to be the #2 guy. The Huskers need a ball hawk next to him who can make players after the DE in Stille or a Davis, and a Nose, takes on a blocker at the LOS. Dedrick Young simply couldn't do that in 2018, and it killed Nebraska vs. The Run.
3. Now take the outside points of the diamond and place them on the Outside Linebackers. Ty Ferguson was slightly above average, but injured most of 2018. This meant Alex Davis won the job on the weak side by default. Davis is and was the worst defensive starter in the Big Ten. He had terrible instincts, a slow first step, and opposing OCs never once worried about him. Gifford was good, but if you ever want to take the next step, Gifford or Ferguson need to be complimentary parts. The 3-4 DEs like Davis Twins and Stille would be far more effective in the pass rush if offenses had to worry about edge rushers. But they weren't.
All you have to do is look at Wisconsin the last half dozen years:
Nose is always an NFL caliber behemoth.
Inside Linebackers have been repeated All-Americans
Outside Linebackers have been dominant off the edge.
Agree, the Davis Twins are big disappointments. With the amount of hype around them out of highschool. I really thought they could have potential to be 2 studs here. Looking like they were misses.
Agreed here, the addition of Darien Daniels is going to be huge. Everything I read and heard is he’s a good run stopping NT and that’s what we need. He’s no Juco or High school kid, he can come in and is ready to play from day one. This could be the one peace we been missing. Having the Daniel’s at NT opens the Davis twins at DE and gives Chin a 1-3 punch at DE with Davis Twins and Stille (better pass rush DE). I’m hoping players like Wildeman having a year of S&C under there belts can step in and make some type of impact. DLine should be better if not a lot better next year. As for Ty Robinson, I’m hoping he gets to redshirt and play his 4 games for experience. Him and Wildeman could be our future at DE.
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As usual, an excellent post that's a good read. Thank you sir!
What do you think is the chance we'll round up a vicious OLB? I would think a T. Farley or D. Williams clone would be sensational and a HUGE help on getting pressure on the qb for the 3rd & longs we gave up about 500,000 times. Is there a reasonable chance?
As long as we never see the name Davis or Newell playing the NT position, I think we'll be fine. Carlos Davis regressed quite a bit this year while I think Khalil showed a lot of improvement. If they show improvement next year I think they can both be very good players.
It seems like the Davis twins are better rushing the QB on passing downs. Khali did fairly well with sacks this past season. I never though they did bad, like others, I think they were plugged in at spots that didn’t fit there skill levels as well.
Out of every position group on the team next year, the DL will be our biggest concern. And it's not even close. With what I see on paper going into next year, we might have a problem. The Davis twins and Stille have yet to live up to their potential. Ditto that for Daniels, although he is young. Hope they all prove me wrong next year, but I do not have as high of hopes with the DL as I do for the rest of the position groups.
I dont think you are being completely fair to C Davis. He played NG out of necessity. Newell was horrible, Stolt was bad AND injured, Daniels couldnt play more than 15-20 snaps without his play falling off due to endurance issues.
Davis was forced into NG and logged a lot of snaps their. First off NG isnt a position to get snaps anyways. Aside from all that Davis is a much better DE than NG (even though DE isnt his natural position either).
Was Davis a good NG last year? Nah but he was the best they had that could play high numbers of snaps.
IF the Daniel brothers can hold down that NG position this year i think you will see a much improved Carlos Davis. Agree completely with you about K Davis showing marked improvement. If both can have the same type jump that K Davis did last year(possible) i think we can have a pretty solid group. Id love to see Stille with a similar jump.
HollA
The D Line was better last year than the previous. It was no where near the level we need it to be, and they got whooped a lot, but it was heading in the right direction at least. Stolt gets a bad rap here, but when healthy he was not a bad NG. when he wasnt in is when we were the worst and it forced davis into a bad spot. Both daniels playing and staying healthy will be huge for the davis twins, plus another year of maturity.
Expect more problems there, but also expect it to be better than it was last year. Its not a D line that will win the conference, but its trending up. As posted above improvement at LB can go a long eay, there were many times the d line did its job only for young to miss a clean shot at a tackle in the hole or fail to even be there.
Expect more problems there, but also expect it to be better than it was last year. Its not a D line that will win the conference, but its trending up. As posted above improvement at LB can go a long eay, there were many times the d line did its job only for young to miss a clean shot at a tackle in the hole or fail to even be there.
Good analysis and I hope you are right. No argument from me that we had no true NT and that skewed everything.
Nevertheless, I am still suspicious that the Davis twins are merely “average” lineman. If Daniels can come in and anchor the middle then maybe the Davis boys can really excel next year. That is the optimistic, best case scenario.
But I ain’t drinking no damn kool aid this year. I will remain skeptical about the potential of this defense until they prove it on the field. No more “feel good” stories and videos out of the weight room this year. If I were Frost I would ban all that shit this year. Prove it on the field or STFU. Restore blackshirt pride through execution on the field. Everything else is just farting into a tornado.
Stolt was our only decent NT besides Daniels. When one of those two wasnt in there, nothing but bad things happened. I know C Davis played out of necessity but we should be in a position next year where that never has to happen. I agree C Davis is a much better DE than a NT, but even when he was playing that position I saw a decline from the previous year.
I don't think the Davis twins have reached their potential yet, nor anyone else on the defensive line. I expect to see a lot of improvement from this group heading into next year.
Going out on a limb here and predict starters (heavy subbing) of StilleDE, Damion Daniels NT, and Chris Walker DE.
A flimsy limb, indeed.
I thought Stolt played well this year when he wasn't hurt. Our whole defensive line played much better when he was playing NT. He gets a bad rap because he's not your prototypical shorter NT, but just look at how our DL played both with and without him tells you he was doing his job.
I disagree with you on Stolt. I know he was hurt but i wouldnt call his play decent. I was better than Newell but thats about it imo. Honestly i think Daniels probably had the biggest impact per play of all the NGs. If they couldve gotten 30 snaps outta him i think he makes a big difference. The rest were pretty much just guys.
Agreed about hoping the returnees improve. We definitely need it. I hope Carlos can drop a few pounds as well as he moves back outside HOPEFULLY.
holla
We certainly will. It would be great if some difference-makers could coalesce out of the bottom-of-depth-chart shadows. Usually guys don’t go from one career tackle to passing incumbents over one offseason, but you never know.
I wish the Chinander would designate one outside LB as an edge-- someone who would aggressively set the edge against the run and provide an outside pass rush but would seldom be assigned in pass coverage (think James Harrison). This would allow a physical, larger athlete to excel at the position without being exposed out in space. It's been frustrating to watch undersized outside LBs get pinned inside & lose containment. Gifford did a nice job, but he didn't have the size to ward off blockers and turn things inside. In this scheme, the other LB can be the coverage backer-- smaller, quicker.
I also think in the Big 10 West, it's a good idea to be able to play at least one inside LB who is a big physical kid. Just someone in your two deep who can come in and play when teams are trying to run right at you. I think we signed some kids who will eventually fit that bill.
If they're disappointments it's because too much was expected of them. They're good DTs or 3-4 DEs. As Cornicator said, you have to have other pieces around them. They're not Suh, but not many guys are that good. I expect an uptick in our D line play with Freedom and Mick gone. Mick is a warrior but he played hurt the whole year. Daniels showed flashes of being a really good player but he has to get in better shape. Another off season with Duval I suspect will help him tremendously.
What's the scoop on the Utah NG that transferred last summer? Did he play much, injured, out of shape? Didn't hear his name much during the season?
Loss leader for future Polynesian recruits.
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Our OLB technique this year was piss poor at times. I don't know how many times I saw one of the OLB's run blindly upfield into a reach block, then the running back would run right inside of that for a big gain. It looks like they were coached to do that and I'm not sure why. Combined with the ILB play we had from Young, that's a recipe for disaster. Even a decent ILB like Barry can't fill that gap a lot of times.
Definitely this.
Some of you guys act like this wasn't the third different defensive scheme in three years that these guys were playing in.
