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Covid19 3.0

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I live in Union County, North Carolina, just south of Charlotte. We got boil water notices THIS MORNING, due to Ecoli being found in our county’s tap water. There were lines in front of Target this morning, like it was black Friday with people showing up to get bottled water...
Now, I just hope we have enough toilet paper... lord help me. :eek:
Apparently you don't have stoves there for them to boil their water? The whole water thing just pisses me off. We used to be able to adequately chlorinate our water and we had way less problems with black mold in every stinking nook and cranny of our bathrooms including inside the toilet tanks. Now my city tap water smells and tastes like mold and it grows on every faucet outlet in the house despite regular cleaning. At some point we need to worry less about putting chlorine in to our waste water and more about our immediate health.
 
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Markets plunging again, thanks to Dotard In Chief.

This outbreak is getting scary.
Markets are crashing because they were WAY WAY over inflated. They were looking for ONE reason to correct and instead we got TWO reasons at the same time. Somewhere around May 1st we'll be diving in head first with everything we have back from fixed income into stocks. It doesn't matter what any politician says at this point. The market is being irrational and driven by fear of the unknown and nothing anybody can say or do will change that. Maybe if the CDC came out and said this is no worse than the average flu bug it would change things but that wouldn't be factual.
 
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You can NOT trust the reporting of illnesses in China to be factual. Italy's experience should be our expectation and it's ripping through there unchecked. Secondly, China has never seriously tried to stop the flu and don't have a robust flu vaccination program. As I just posted, I expect the CFR (case fatality rate %) for COVID-19 is inflated by cases that were not reported. Likewise millions of influenza cases happen and are never reported so THAT CFR is also inflated. So when you look at those FACTs, it is completely logical to expect the statistics our country's and most of Europe's experts are using. One of the directors of OUR efforts to slow this thing down told Congress, the President and the American people on national TV that this bug is 10 times more lethal than influenza. From my own experience in dealing with both Corona viruses and Influenza viruses over the past 35 years, Corona viruses are at least if not more contagious than influenza and last way longer on surfaces than influenza viruses. Their fatty envelopes enable Corona viruses to adhere to surfaces and resist environmental degradation for much longer periods of time than influenza.

What line of work are you in? I agree not looking at China, but why Italy? I would think a country like South Korea would be more in line with the US than Italy.
 
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Markets are crashing because they were WAY WAY over inflated. They were looking for ONE reason to correct and instead we got TWO reasons at the same time. Somewhere around May 1st we'll be diving in head first with everything we have back from fixed income into stocks. It doesn't matter what any politician says at this point. The market is being irrational and driven by fear of the unknown and nothing anybody can say or do will change that. Maybe if the CDC came out and said this is no worse than the average flu bug it would change things but that wouldn't be factual.

I work in this area. I know why the markets are reacting the way they are. A correction was due, and possibly even a small recession. But that's like saying, "Oh, we should let some steam out of the machine, it's rattling a lot" and then having a Tartuffian moron smash parts of it with a rubber mallet.

Why on earth do you carry water for this dangerously unqualified grifter?
 
I know I'm going to be that guy... But I get the feeling that Covid19 is already circulating around Omaha, and nobody wants to have the guts to admit it. I also think the schools in Omaha and the surrounding area are doing a huge disservice to this city by staying open, when distance learning is a thing that can be done easily now. Yes, it would hurt the pocketbook, but it would also slow any progression with this *potential* outbreak. We are all in reactive mode right now in a time where we need to be proactive.
I will start off saying what I have been saying. I do not fear this. I do not think it is going to kill millions or even hundreds of thousands in US. I think it will probably be gone by June or July and life will be as normal. But I do agree waiting to shut down schools until someone there actually has it defeats the purpose of closing. That person or people have now just possibly infected everyone in the school. Close the school now, stop the spread, be proactive help clear this thing out asap.
2 kids just went home yesterday in my daughters class with high fevers and cough. So help me if it comes out they had Covid and now just contaminated my kid, class and the whole school. Where it could have been prevented.
 
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What line of work are you in? I agree not looking at China, but why Italy? I would think a country like South Korea would be more in line with the US than Italy.
I'm retired from a health care field and have a medical field doctorate. I don't like to be more specific than that due to some issues that arose on this board a number of years ago. I am not an M.D. though most of my family members are. S. Korea's proximity to China and climate make me a little reluctant to use it as a model. There's also a large difference IMO in their population dynamic and lifestyle to us. I'm not sure about the transparency of reporting out of S. Korea either. It appears that Italy may be about a week ahead of us in their outbreak. Who knows for sure until it's all over.
 
I'm retired from a health care field and have a medical field doctorate. I don't like to be more specific than that due to some issues that arose on this board a number of years ago. I am not an M.D. though most of my family members are. S. Korea's proximity to China and climate make me a little reluctant to use it as a model. There's also a large difference IMO in their population dynamic and lifestyle to us. I'm not sure about the transparency of reporting out of S. Korea either. It appears that Italy may be about a week ahead of us in their outbreak. Who knows for sure until it's all over.
any infectious disease focused?
 
I'm retired from a health care field and have a medical field doctorate. I don't like to be more specific than that due to some issues that arose on this board a number of years ago. I am not an M.D. though most of my family members are. S. Korea's proximity to China and climate make me a little reluctant to use it as a model. There's also a large difference IMO in their population dynamic and lifestyle to us. I'm not sure about the transparency of reporting out of S. Korea either. It appears that Italy may be about a week ahead of us in their outbreak. Who knows for sure until it's all over.

10-4. You don't have to go any further and not calling you out in any sort of way. Was just curious as you seem to be providing an even keeled voice with a lot of this so just curious. I feel like having Italy is a bad example because I feel like their healthcare system blows (Had to use it with my infant daughter a few years ago) and some of the smaller towns of Italy seem very impoverished as I have traveled extensively through Italy.
 
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if the leaders had a brain, they would say everyone stay home for 14 days.
instead they want to drag it out, get a lot of dead people and destroy the economy
 
I work in this area. I know why the markets are reacting the way they are. A correction was due, and possibly even a small recession. But that's like saying, "Oh, we should let some steam out of the machine, it's rattling a lot" and then having a Tartuffian moron smash parts of it with a rubber mallet.

Why on earth do you carry water for this dangerously unqualified grifter?
I'm not carrying water for anybody. From what I see there isn't a single qualified candidate from either party this go around. They're all boobs. 20 years ago, I grew tired of what I was doing and had some money to invest so I went and got my Series 7 and insurances licenses. I worked in the business for about a year and a half and didn't enjoy it so I quit. I figured out pretty quickly that my distrust of my local brokers was warranted. I guess I'm a believer in things always returning to a steady state trend line and when you get as high above the trend as we've been, a severe whiplash is due to occur. When the Dow was in the low 20s, I was saying that we could retrace below 16. We've got a tremendous buying opportunity about to present itself and the question is how soon and in what. Fat cattle are really getting hammered and historically after these types of swoons, demand returns quickly and so do prices. Likewise there are going to be some bargains in the stocks. By May 1st I think we'll see a return to sanity.
 
I'm not carrying water for anybody. From what I see there isn't a single qualified candidate from either party this go around. They're all boobs. 20 years ago, I grew tired of what I was doing and had some money to invest so I went and got my Series 7 and insurances licenses. I worked in the business for about a year and a half and didn't enjoy it so I quit. I figured out pretty quickly that my distrust of my local brokers was warranted. I guess I'm a believer in things always returning to a steady state trend line and when you get as high above the trend as we've been, a severe whiplash is due to occur. When the Dow was in the low 20s, I was saying that we could retrace below 16. We've got a tremendous buying opportunity about to present itself and the question is how soon and in what. Fat cattle are really getting hammered and historically after these types of swoons, demand returns quickly and so do prices. Likewise there are going to be some bargains in the stocks. By May 1st I think we'll see a return to sanity.

You are correct on the estimate of the outbreak lasting about 8 weeks. Some things about S. Korea:

1.) Their outbreak and ours started around the same time, yet they can currently test about 10,000 people a day. We've tested roughly 8,500 since our started and have not processed them all nor do we have adequate testing kits. WHY IS THAT?

2.) Oh look. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_South_Korea
 
Curious how our pets are affected? Can dogs and cats get this, and is it deadly to them if they do?

Not at this time. The virus is so bad for us right now because it appears to have jumped from bats to us. In order to do that, it had to mutate in a pretty gross environment (the so-called "wet markets" where any animal under the sun can be chopped up) where bats, pangolins, chickens, pigs, and a bunch of other animals were all hanging out, waiting to get killed for human consumption.

In a few months, it will likely attune to our immune systems better, becoming easier to catch but also far less lethal.

Speculation is that bats have, for some reason, immune systems that are more similar to humans than many other animals. Right now, this virus does not show an inclination to jump to anything else.
 
10-4. You don't have to go any further and not calling you out in any sort of way. Was just curious as you seem to be providing an even keeled voice with a lot of this so just curious. I feel like having Italy is a bad example because I feel like their healthcare system blows (Had to use it with my infant daughter a few years ago) and some of the smaller towns of Italy seem very impoverished as I have traveled extensively through Italy.
You may be right on Italy's healthcare system. They've had tremendous financial difficulty as a country. I have no personal experience with either country's system. Visitors might say the same of the U.S. though if they visit here and have to wait in a waiting room. My son had to take his baby in the the E.R. in Omaha in late December. He waited 3 hours to see a freaking P.A. who had less medical knowledge than I could give him over the phone then they sent them home and told him to "watch" the baby. In a large southern city where he works, he took his wife in for her prenatal visit and was told even though he had federal government employee health insurance, he had to give them a $500 CASH deposit (not credit card) in order to be seen by the Dr. that day. They basically said F you and walked out. We have our own issues.
 
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You may be right on Italy's healthcare system. They've had tremendous financial difficulty as a country. I have not personal experience with either country's system. Visitors might say the same of the U.S. though if they visit here and have to wait in a waiting room. My son had to take his baby in the the E.R. in Omaha in late December. He waited 3 hours to see a freaking P.A. who had less medical knowledge than I could give him over the phone then they sent them home and told him to "watch" the baby. In a large southern city where he works, he took his wife in for her prenatal visit and was told even though he had federal government employee health insurance, he had to give them a $500 CASH deposit (not credit card) in order to be seen by the Dr. that day. They basically said F you and walked out. We have our own issues.

No doubt. We for sure have our own issues.
 
A friend passed a round an email that she received from a friend living in Italy. I won't post the whole thing but the woman says that US media is not coming close to accurately showing what is happening in Italy. The health care infrastructure has collapsed. The new cases that are showing up are people in their teens, and 40's and 50's, and some of them are dying. The prime minister imposed a virtually countrywide quarantine as a last gasp effort to stop the disease. The woman used the phrase in Italian that the PM used when imposing the curfew, that roughly translates to "if this quarantine doesn't work, Italy as we know it is gone." The woman is from the US and so watches US media closely. She says that the US is exactly where Italy was 3 weeks ago, so if we don't do something drastic quickly, we will be Italy in 3 weeks. What was even scarier was that she said she has prepared herself to die.
 
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You are correct on the estimate of the outbreak lasting about 8 weeks. Some things about S. Korea:

1.) Their outbreak and ours started around the same time, yet they can currently test about 10,000 people a day. We've tested roughly 8,500 since our started and have not processed them all nor do we have adequate testing kits. WHY IS THAT?

2.) Oh look. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_South_Korea
The CDC's and FDA's reluctance to allow private and state labs to develop their own tests and use them was a HUGE problem. The CDC has their set policy in place and getting them to deviate from that is difficult. The federal bureaucracy is slow and unwieldy. Reluctantly they've given up some control of the testing process to states and private labs. I'm not a fan of the NYTimes but they have a good article online about that issue surrounding the Seattle area and a lab doing testing there. That wasn't a Presidential problem. That was a bureaucracy problem.
 
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A friend passed a round an email that she received from a friend living in Italy. I won't post the whole thing but the woman says that US media is not coming close to accurately showing what is happening in Italy. The health care infrastructure has collapsed. The new cases that are showing up are people in their teens, and 40's and 50's, and some of them are dying. The prime minister imposed a virtually countrywide quarantine as a last gasp effort to stop the disease. The woman used the phrase in Italian that the PM used when imposing the curfew, that roughly translates to "if this quarantine doesn't work, Italy as we know it is gone." The woman is from the US and so watches US media closely. She says that the US is exactly where Italy was 3 weeks ago, so if we don't do something drastic quickly, we will be Italy in 3 weeks. What was even scarier was that she said she has prepared herself to die.
That does sound a little hysterical but they might also be experiencing more of the more virulent strain of COVID-19. Their CFR so far does appear to be higher than China and S. Korea have reported. I do know that their medical facilities are completely overwhelmed with many if not most healthcare workers also becoming ill. It's a really bad deal. Period.
 
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Curious how our pets are affected? Can dogs and cats get this, and is it deadly to them if they do?

Apparently the World Health Organization has concluded that dogs do not catch the virus and can be released from quarantine. So basically, WHO let the dogs out.

Okay, that is not true, just trying to bring some humor. Yes, dogs can get and transmit the virus. It does not appear to be as dangerous to them, but what I read made clear that was a very early conclusion. I don't know about cats.
 
The CDC's and FDA's reluctance to allow private and state labs to develop their own tests and use them was a HUGE problem. The CDC has their set policy in place and getting them to deviate from that is difficult. The federal bureaucracy is slow and unwieldy. Reluctantly they've given up some control of the testing process to states and private labs. I'm not a fan of the NYTimes but they have a good article online about that issue surrounding the Seattle area and a lab doing testing there. That wasn't a Presidential problem. That was a bureaucracy problem.
I think decision makers thought we had more time and didn't push the bureaucracy aside wrt testing. Now the US is behind and the viral spread is a known unknown. The testing is PCR based, a technology that has now been around for quite awhile. We could do it at my small U. We have the equipment but the not the requisite containment clearance.
 
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I'm not carrying water for anybody. From what I see there isn't a single qualified candidate from either party this go around. They're all boobs.
I know many on the board flat out loath the idea of electing a Dem, but the leading candidate on that side was VP for 8 years, and before that was the Chair of substantial committees in the US Senate. He also has a history of good working relationships with members of the GOP. You may not like Biden, but he is hardly a boob and would have no doubt took this problem seriously from the get go.
 
I know many on the board flat out loath the idea of electing a Dem, but the leading candidate on that side was VP for 8 years, and before that was the Chair of substantial committees in the US Senate. He also has a history of good working relationships with members of the GOP. You may not like Biden, but he is hardly a boob and would have no doubt took this problem seriously from the get go.

RollingLaugh
 
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Thanks for proving the point. If I started listing Republicans that I would be relieved the have sitting in the Oval right now, I wouldn't be done for a minute or two. Start with Pence.
 
A friend passed a round an email that she received from a friend living in Italy. I won't post the whole thing but the woman says that US media is not coming close to accurately showing what is happening in Italy. The health care infrastructure has collapsed. The new cases that are showing up are people in their teens, and 40's and 50's, and some of them are dying. The prime minister imposed a virtually countrywide quarantine as a last gasp effort to stop the disease. The woman used the phrase in Italian that the PM used when imposing the curfew, that roughly translates to "if this quarantine doesn't work, Italy as we know it is gone." The woman is from the US and so watches US media closely. She says that the US is exactly where Italy was 3 weeks ago, so if we don't do something drastic quickly, we will be Italy in 3 weeks. What was even scarier was that she said she has prepared herself to die.
The virus certainly has been deadly for 40-50 year olds the entire time. It has a 0.4 % death rate at these ages which is many magnitudes higher than the flu. Italy is one of the oldest countries in the world, they have such a high proportion of elderly that the severe cases are numbering the thousands. A counter to this though is many people have gotten it and had nothing but a slight fever or sore throat. There are plenty of first hand accounts of this...we HAVE to protect the most vulnerable populations and keep it contained so resources can flood to that area.
 
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How about we don't ruin another nice thread with stupid politics? Afterall, they are all boobs.
If stating that not all politicians are boobs (an assertion of fact) gets a thread locked, well then lock away. We have had excellent, forward thinking elected officials from both parties over the history of our Republic. All citizens, be they conservative, liberal or in between, should have a threshold of what they will accept in terms of competence for those whom they trust with their vote.
 
If stating that not all politicians are boobs (an assertion of fact) gets a thread locked, well then lock away. We have had excellent, forward thinking elected officials from both parties over the history of our Republic. All citizens, be they conservative, liberal or in between, should have a threshold of what they will accept in terms of competence for those whom they trust with their vote.

The fact is that we will never as a whole agree on who is a boob and who isn't so all OPINIONS on this subject should be off limits.
 
If stating that not all politicians are boobs (an assertion of fact) gets a thread locked, well then lock away. We have had excellent, forward thinking elected officials from both parties over the history of our Republic. All citizens, be they conservative, liberal or in between, should have a threshold of what they will accept in terms of competence for those whom they trust with their vote.

I've never been one to blame the President for being who we thought they were. Our President won the electoral college easily with support of 50 million people despite historically low favorability and likability ratings. Many millions voted for a person they didn't like nor trust, that isn't the fault of the president. He has been 100% transparent in his dishonesty. He is NEVER truthful, candid, or vulnerable as a human being...he hasn't been in nearly five years, as a principle. It may be fortunate that the states know they are independent and aren't relying on a strong federal effort other than some financial backing. Many states have continued their own pollution controls, immigration reforms, and civil rights developments outside of the President. Humans follow strong leadership and there is a huge gap there, but it has been present since 2012 at least...hopefully our local and state leadership steps up now and starts to organize a concerted effort when the spike in severe cases begins.
 
Thanks for proving the point. If I started listing Republicans that I would be relieved the have sitting in the Oval right now, I wouldn't be done for a minute or two. Start with Pence.

Jesus. Why did you have to ruin this conversation. Always has to go to politics.. I know there are other threads, but I actually like sticking to the information on the virus threads.
 
How should all of this been handled?
By taking this as a potentially serious problem since before XMAS. And not stepping on local and states abilities to implement testing procedures when it was clear that it was to be a problem.
 
How should all of this been handled?
I laugh at the arrogance of mankind. We tend to think that we have all the answers, and to make this political is, in my opinion, extremely short sighted. If this is one of those events in time that will be historic, it would’ve had its way with us regardless. We don’t have all the answers and never will.
 
By taking this as a potentially serious problem since before XMAS. And not stepping on local and states abilities to implement testing procedures when it was clear that it was to be a problem.

When did we first know about it. What did we know when we first knew. How accurate was the information? How would you have handled that initial notification of the virus (versus what specifically was done). How did the administration prohibit local testing abilities? What were the local people going to do that the administration prevented from happening?
 
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