Covid Vaccine

rgrachek

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They are stopping the vaccine as an extreme precaution for something that has happened in 6 people out of the 7 million doses given.
This is what we get when we have a public scoreboard on every minute detail on an issue. Many people don't have any perspective. They will engage in activities on a daily basis that pose a risk of death of 1 in 10,000, but will refuse a vaccine that "might" pose a risk of getting ill of 1 in 1,000,000 when the benefit is still far more than the risk.

Kind of like the person standing in a protest line protesting the use of pesticides, having the protest sign in one hand and a cigarette in the other.
 

sklarbodds

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What will you do if/when peer reviewed studies show it does very little to reduce transmission?
Early data shows some pretty strong evidence that it prevents infection and transmission...but as always, we'll see.



 
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biscuitbagger3

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This is what we get when we have a public scoreboard on every minute detail on an issue. Many people don't have any perspective. They will engage in activities on a daily basis that pose a risk of death of 1 in 10,000, but will refuse a vaccine that "might" pose a risk of getting ill of 1 in 1,000,000 when the benefit is still far more than the risk.

Kind of like the person standing in a protest line protesting the use of pesticides, having the protest sign in one hand and a cigarette in the other.
Exactly.
 

Trike Rider

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Early data shows some pretty strong evidence that it prevents infection and transmission...but as always, we'll see.



Did you read the articles you just posted? There is nothing in there that says it will stop the spread of covid. Covid 19 is the new influenza that will require a new shot every 6 to 12 months. Come back when you are educated on this topic.
 

sklarbodds

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Did you read the articles you just posted? There is nothing in there that says it will stop the spread of covid. Covid 19 is the new influenza that will require a new shot every 6 to 12 months. Come back when you are educated on this topic.
I did yes. Every single article said that the vaccine has shown (early data) to prevent infection and transmission.

Now are you changing the topic to eradicating Covid 19? If you are then, no...it likely will not do that. Let me know which of those two topics you'd like to debate.
 

damcde

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1. Discovery research takes 2-5 years

2. Pre-Clinical take 2 years

3. Clinical Development Phase 1- Is it Safe? 1-2 years

4. Clinical Development Phase 2 - Does it activate the Immune response? 2-3 years

5. Clinical Development Phase 3- Does it protect against the disease 2-4 years.

6. Regulatory Review and and Approval- 1-2 years

This process has always taken 5-10 years.

Do you realize phase 1 was rushed? Do you realize we are only at Phase 2 and then they cut corners and decided to do Phase 3 at the same time? Holy crap it is like arguing with a child with a room temp IQ.

You act like cutting corners and giving special permissions to get these vaccines out to the public on a mass scale is normal. This is far from normal and very alarming healthy people are rushing to be guinea pigs.

https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/clinical-trial-data

Lol, they put together the Phase II and Phase III because they largely look at the same thing, but Phase III has more people. So instead of doing it separately, they did them together. If you look at most of the vaccines in the 1950s and 1960s, they did the exact same thing. So it isn't unheard of at all in the world of vaccine development at all.

As for the numbers, as I said before, a lot of those numbers are inflated by the time it takes for analysis/approval. Depending on the drug, many times the trail itself only takes a few months. They will continue to track people for 2-3 years, but the interim analysis occurs within a few months. However, due to the nature of the trials, data analysis can take a long time. Then it has to been approved in order to move to the next stage. This all takes time, which bloats your time.
 

Trike Rider

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Lol, they put together the Phase II and Phase III because they largely look at the same thing, but Phase III has more people. So instead of doing it separately, they did them together. If you look at most of the vaccines in the 1950s and 1960s, they did the exact same thing. So it isn't unheard of at all in the world of vaccine development at all.

As for the numbers, as I said before, a lot of those numbers are inflated by the time it takes for analysis/approval. Depending on the drug, many times the trail itself only takes a few months. They will continue to track people for 2-3 years, but the interim analysis occurs within a few months. However, due to the nature of the trials, data analysis can take a long time. Then it has to been approved in order to move to the next stage. This all takes time, which bloats your time.
They are not even done with phase 2 and 3 and rolled it out to the public on a massive scale. That is unprecedented fact.
 

Trike Rider

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I did yes. Every single article said that the vaccine has shown (early data) to prevent infection and transmission.

Now are you changing the topic to eradicating Covid 19? If you are then, no...it likely will not do that. Let me know which of those two topics you'd like to debate.
You literally just said if everyone over the age of 16 was vaccinated we could kiss covid goodbye. Do you understand the term "Leaky Vaccine"?
 

sklarbodds

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They are not even done with phase 2 and 3 and rolled it out to the public on a massive scale. That is unprecedented fact.
That's just not true. All 3 trials were completed

Pfizer on November 18th, weeks before the vaccine was released to the public for instance:
 

sklarbodds

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You literally just said if everyone over the age of 16 was vaccinated we could kiss covid goodbye. Do you understand the term "Leaky Vaccine"?
Hmm...interesting you take it that way...no that's not what was meant at all.

Everyone over the age of 16 gets vaccinated and we can kiss these precautions goodbye. Masks, distancing, anything being reduced or shuttered, etc. etc. Hope that clarifies.

Now, if we truly hit like 80-90% vaccination, the actual occurrence of the disease would be really small, way smaller than the flu...because simply these vaccines are WAY more effective than the flu vaccine.
 
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mhosek

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Would you agree that by making this move it should make people feel better about oversight rather than the opposite?
admittedly, yes. Frankly surprised they'd halt it, but at the same time it makes me question whether this thrombotic issue is the real reason for suspending it. Doesn't jive.
 

mhosek

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We do have a way to routinely replace them, unfortunately we (both sides) just don’t exercise it.
No, we don't. And its because a plurality of voters are in fact stupid, on both sides. They vote for the most familiar name. DC, IMHO, until We the People demand term limits, is un-fixable. We're all EQUALLY F*CKED, because the majority of them don't give a shit about anything but staying in power.
 

MIHusker9054

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No, we don't. And its because a plurality of voters are in fact stupid, on both sides. They vote for the most familiar name. DC, IMHO, until We the People demand term limits, is un-fixable. We're all EQUALLY F*CKED, because the majority of them don't give a shit about anything but staying in power.

Would also add, and probably more so than familiar name, that they vote for the letter after their name.
 

mhosek

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Would also add, and probably more so than familiar name, that they vote for the letter after their name.
97% of incumbents are reelected, quick Duck search. Herein lies the problem. Gotta find a way to fix it.
 

MIHusker9054

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97% of incumbents are reelected, quick Duck search. Herein lies the problem. Gotta find a way to fix it.

I agree and agree with term limits. The problem is so many people vote straight party ticket and/or pay no attention to anything other than what party the person they are voting for belongs to.
 

damcde

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You literally just said if everyone over the age of 16 was vaccinated we could kiss covid goodbye. Do you understand the term "Leaky Vaccine"?

The whole problem with your “Leaky Vaccine” theory you keep bringing up is that pretty much every single respiratory virus has a “Leaky” immune response. It is the way our bodies are set up, which is why we get reinfected with the same cold viruses over and over again. But yet we don’t have more virulent RSV, seasonal Coronavirus’s, parainfluenza viruses, etc showing up every year.

Additionally, Coronavirus as a whole is a very stable virus. Unlike any other RNA virus, they have proofreading capability. With this, would not expect for the virus to mutate at the rate of something like influenza. Both of these factors work against this whole theory you are trying to push.
 

dsmalls3

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Yet you voted that you were 100% against childhood vaccines. Props to @dsmalls3 for making that poll so you clowns would out yourselves and we could just disregard your opinion on pretty much everything going forward.

Don’t @ me nurse.

Go find a sodium drain to fill.
 

dsmalls3

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I wore the mask for a year like I was told, and I took the damn shot like I was told. I'm done listening now, so kindly insert my penis in your mouth if you have any further issues.

ByWA4c7CYAQtGuR.jpg

Get the vaccine so your chance of dying of Covid basically becomes zero.

However, you will still need to wear a mask to prevent spreading it to other people.

Stop being a bitch and pretending wearing a mask is really that hard. Does it suck, yes. Is it hard, no.
 
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dsmalls3

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If you are under the age of 50 healthy and potentially thinking about having kids, you have to be be a moron to get the covid vaccine. I will not be getting the vaccine until long term studies have been done. Two of the best OB-GYNs in the state of Nebraska have this same opinion.

Get the vaccines asshole. Your have no scientific reason not to except for being an asshole. Don’t be an asshole.
 
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Jaemekon

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Get the vaccine so your chance of dying of Covid basically becomes zero.

However, you will still need to wear a mask to prevent spreading it to other people.

Stop being a bitch and pretending wearing a mask is really that hard. Does it suck, yes. Is it hard, no.

I'm a step ahead of you.

Point-Break-1991-01-09-43.jpg
 
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dsmalls3

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Thanks for your input! My currently-pregnant wife's OB-GYN said we should both get the vaccine and that it's completely safe.

It’s not completely safe but you should get it. Your pregnant wife should not get it. She should also not get the flu/DTAP shot, but what do I know...

No vaccines are “completely” safe. The chance that your child is infected with a disease they are being vaccinated for is like 1 in 100,000 or more, but you will definitely have other parents shame you for questioning vaccines. If you feel this sounds ****ed up, it’s because it is. If I could do it over again, I would not have my wife get the flu\DTap shot while she is pregnant. Your OBGYN will recommend it because he thinks it’s safe, but he’s honestly clueless. It’s not his fault. What you will learn along this journey is that you will likely be more educated than your pediatrician for each “get well” visit, and dont ever let anybody make you feel bad about that. For example, I had a doctor swear that the HibB vaccine they were giving my daughter had no alum, and turns out they gave me the Merck version of the shot, and they confused thermosal with alum.

Do what makes you comfortable.

They will try and fit 4 shots into 1 at the 2 month mark and mike 1,200 milligrams of
alum. Tell them to **** themselves, and you will do 1-2 shots per visit. Space out the shots that you will need to get your kid into daycare - polio, MMR. Those are the only shots I’m aware of you need for daycare.school. Bypass chickenpox. If you’d child is not born yet ask the hospital to bypass the HepB shot at birth, and have your child get it in their teens when drugs/sex are real dangers.

If you are looking for your doctor for expertise, he honestly has no idea and it’s a joke. He doesn’t know what he’s recommending. Keep your wife away from shots while she is pregnant, and focus on her feeling comfortable breastfeeding during the first month. The real challenge will be milk production.

If you’re wife already got the shot, so did mine. The ONGYN recommended flu/DTAP shot for my wife and she took it. All good, my daughter is a breath of fresh air. Healthy as they can come. Get vaccines but spread it out.

Don’t let the “pro-vaccine” crowd make you feel guilty for being cautious. As far as I’m concerned, they can all go **** themselves.
 
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wcbrooks

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If you are under the age of 50 healthy and potentially thinking about having kids, you have to be be a moron to get the covid vaccine. I will not be getting the vaccine until long term studies have been done. Two of the best OB-GYNs in the state of Nebraska have this same opinion.
Please, don’t get the vaccine.
 
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biscuitbagger3

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It’s not completely safe but you should get it. Your pregnant wife should not get it. She should also not get the flu/DTAP shot, but what do I know...

No vaccines are “completely” safe. The chance that your child is infected with a disease they are being vaccinated for is like 1 in 100,000 or more, but you will definitely have other parents shame you for questioning vaccines. If you feel this sounds ****ed up, it’s because it is. If I could do it over again, I would not have my wife get the flu\DTap shot while she is pregnant. Your OBGYN will recommend it because he thinks it’s safe, but he’s honestly clueless. It’s not his fault. What you will learn along this journey is that you will likely be more educated than your pediatrician for each “get well” visit, and dont ever let anybody make you feel bad about that. For example, I had a doctor swear that the HibB vaccine they were giving my daughter had no alum, and turns out they gave me the Merck version of the shot, and they confused thermosal with alum.

Do what makes you comfortable.

They will try and fit 4 shots into 1 at the 2 month mark and mike 1,200 milligrams of
alum. Tell them to **** themselves, and you will do 1-2 shots per visit. Space out the shots that you will need to get your kid into daycare - polio, MMR. Those are the only shots I’m aware of you need for daycare.school. Bypass chickenpox. If you’d child is not born yet ask the hospital to bypass the HepB shot at birth, and have your child get it in their teens when drugs/sex are real dangers.

If you are looking for your doctor for expertise, he honestly has no idea and it’s a joke. He doesn’t know what he’s recommending. Keep your wife away from shots while she is pregnant, and focus on her feeling comfortable breastfeeding during the first month. The real challenge will be milk production.

If you’re wife already got the shot, so did mine. The ONGYN recommended flu/DTAP shot for my wife and she took it. All good, my daughter is a breath of fresh air. Healthy as they can come. Get vaccines but spread it out.

Don’t let the “pro-vaccine” crowd make you feel guilty for being cautious. As far as I’m concerned, they can all go **** themselves.
You can go **** yourself with your bachelors in biology. Tell us more about how vaccines are intravenous and kids get 50 plus shots, and you don’t get why people think you’re an uneducated selfish prick.
 

damcde

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Did you read the articles you just posted? There is nothing in there that says it will stop the spread of covid. Covid 19 is the new influenza that will require a new shot every 6 to 12 months. Come back when you are educated on this topic.

Hopefully the first of many peer reviewed articles to come out showing stopping transmission. Stopping a variant nonetheless.

Cell Reports
 

franzix

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1617991551281.jpg

So many brain dead NPC's in this thread.

Wait, is this for real? NPC's, as in Non-Player Characters? Holy cow!
What do you mean by long term studies? Do you mean maybe looking at the data from a bunch of people who have taken the vaccine (over 700 million now) and waiting say 20 years before you take it?

Do you know that the original polio vaccine in the 1950s had a trial of less than a year before we injected it into almost every child in America, essentially ending polio in the USA?

Also, is this for real...a @rgrachek that I agree with?
This is what we get when we have a public scoreboard on every minute detail on an issue. Many people don't have any perspective. They will engage in activities on a daily basis that pose a risk of death of 1 in 10,000, but will refuse a vaccine that "might" pose a risk of getting ill of 1 in 1,000,000 when the benefit is still far more than the risk.

Kind of like the person standing in a protest line protesting the use of pesticides, having the protest sign in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

I had to take a break to smoke a cigarette before finalizing this post.
 
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mkihne

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LOL there is no link between fertility and the Covid vaccine. And if you're that worried about it, why not just get the J&J which doesn't use mRNA?

I'm 42...going to sign up real soon, though I've already got 6 kids so I prob don't need any more.
You are correct....it uses DNA.....so let’s just settle on foreign genetic material
 

damcde

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It’s not infertility to worry about....it’s an autoimmune response to a protein in the placenta of a pregnant woman that would cause an abortion that is the concern.
1The overlap between the spike protein and syncytin-1 (the placental protein in question) is very small, and not what you would expect to allow for cross-reactivity. To go with this, there has been no evidence to show that with natural infection (which the virus has the same spike protein as the vaccine) of this occurring. In cases where a pathogen induces autoimmunity via mimicry (which is what this is) the more inflammation they higher chance of autoimmunity kicking in. The natural infection would induce way more inflammation than the vaccine, but yet we don’t see this happen.
 

mkihne

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Because having an opinion that goes against the liberal agenda is tantamount to professional suicide, bud. You know my opinions and I keep my lips zipped and mask up in front of patients, everyday. I agree w/ the OP, have all daughters and they’re not gonna be vaccinated until long term studies exist for THESE vaccines. Yeah coronavirus isn’t a new virus and vaccines have been studied in the past, just not THESE ones, and while it may be safe, My wife and kids and myself are happy to wait. With time, maybe. I’ve multiple medical colleagues and a patient who’s a damned immunologist with similar sentiments. We don’t doubt the science, please don’t misunderstand that, we doubt the intentions of the puppeteers forcing this whole charade through.
As an insider also, there are many among us who can see potential for near term to long term consequences, such as autoimmune responses. With people turning up with Covid after the vaccine, this will be an ongoing “flu shot” issue but with genetic material replacing actual dead or attenuated viral material.
 

mkihne

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1The overlap between the spike protein and syncytin-1 (the placental protein in question) is very small, and not what you would expect to allow for cross-reactivity. To go with this, there has been no evidence to show that with natural infection (which the virus has the same spike protein as the vaccine) of this occurring. In cases where a pathogen induces autoimmunity via mimicry (which is what this is) the more inflammation they higher chance of autoimmunity kicking in. The natural infection would induce way more inflammation than the vaccine, but yet we don’t see this happen.
Here we go again.......have a nice day.
 

damcde

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As an insider also, there are many among us who can see potential for near term to long term consequences, such as autoimmune responses. With people turning up with Covid after the vaccine, this will be an ongoing “flu shot” issue but with genetic material replacing actual dead or attenuated viral material.

How are you going to generate autoimmune responses? And what are talking about with the bolded?
 

mkihne

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How are you going to generate autoimmune responses? And what are talking about with the bolded?
There’s already talk about boosters and yearly jabs to cover new strains, etc. Patients getting Covid after vaccination. Covid is a coronavirus and is doing what corona viruses do......mutate. Otherwise not interested in playing your pseudo intellectual games. Have a nice day.
 

damcde

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There’s already talk about boosters and yearly jabs to cover new strains, etc. Patients getting Covid after vaccination. Covid is a coronavirus and is doing what corona viruses do......mutate. Otherwise not interested in playing your pseudo intellectual games. Have a nice day.

It is amazing that we have vaccines that last for years to other viruses such as polio, measles, mumps, etc, which all mutate. But do you know the difference between those RNA viruses and Coronaviruses? Coronaviruses have proofreading capability, which means that compared to most RNA viruses they are much more stable genetically. Does that mean then won’t ever mutate, no. But just like with polio, measles etc, once you get people vaccinated against the major strains around, the ability of the virus to mutate would go down significantly. This allowing for you to make a more stable vaccine.

That said, we are talking about a respiratory virus vs other viruses, and we know they immunity to respiratory viruses does not stick around. Which means that our bodies may need to be reminded more often. If we have to get boosters, it will likely be more because of this, and not it changing to a bunch of strains.

When it comes to mutations and different strains, influenza and HIV are the exception, not the rule for how most viruses are able to handle mutations that evade the immune response.
 

damcde

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None of the vaccines use DNA. And the fact you're trying to argue anything while acknowledging that, discredits you immediately.
Actually the viral vector vaccines use DNA. Doesn’t mean that they are going to integrate into our DNA (you have to have significant overlap for that to occur, which there doesn’t appear to be so).

Carl Zimmer had some really great articles in the NYT about the different vaccines for anyone that wants to learn about them (not necessarily to you OP).