Covid Vaccine

damcde

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Wow good job! Do you understand that vast majority of those 6 million were vaccinated in the last few weeks and it takes two weeks for symptoms to show up! I thought you were supposed to be intelligent when it came to discussing this topic....

As of April 4th, 4 million doses were given. We are almost two weeks out from that. But to be conservative let’s say 6 people out of 3 million doses.
 

sklarbodds

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Wow good job! Do you understand that vast majority of those 6 million were vaccinated in the last few weeks and it takes two weeks for symptoms to show up! I thought you were supposed to be intelligent when it came to discussing this topic....
Lol @damcde makes a statement of fact and you return with insults.

You are adorable when you try to science.

This is overly precautionary because we have so many options at this point. But the reality is this is how ALL vaccinations/medications work.

You go through all the necessary trials (which all these vaccines did), then you release them to the public and basically from them until eternity you monitor the health of the population.

And in this case there's an issue that has effectedb less than .0001% of the people who have received it.

And if it turns out to affect more, they'll put a stop to it.

That's how the science works.

You put it through rigorous trials, gradually stepping up the number of people each time and do your best to prevent every negative outcome, but it's not possible... So you test/study/learn/react/repeat... Over and over and over again for eternity....
 

Trike Rider

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Lol @damcde makes a statement of fact and you return with insults.

You are adorable when you try to science.

This is overly precautionary because we have so many options at this point. But the reality is this is how ALL vaccinations/medications work.

You go through all the necessary trials (which all these vaccines did), then you release them to the public and basically from them until eternity you monitor the health of the population.

And in this case there's an issue that has effectedb less than .0001% of the people who have received it.

And if it turns out to affect more, they'll put a stop to it.

That's how the science works.

You put it through rigorous trials, gradually stepping up the number of people each time and do your best to prevent every negative outcome, but it's not possible... So you test/study/learn/react/repeat... Over and over and over again for eternity....
As of March 22 there was only 2.3 million doses given. As of April 13th we are at 6 million with future plans of doing a couple million per week. Every covid vaccine had to get special permission to speed up the delivery and mass administration. You are wrong on so many levels here.
 

sklarbodds

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As of March 22 there was only 2.3 million doses given. As of April 13th we are at 6 million with future plans of doing a couple million per week. Every covid vaccine had to get special permission to speed up the delivery and mass administration. You are wrong on so many levels here.
No.

First...I don't know why you chose 22 days ago, weird choice.

Second... Even if it's 2.3M, 6 out of 2.3M is still not statically significant. You're looking at .0003% now....ooooh dang
 

Trike Rider

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No.

First...I don't know why you chose 22 days ago, weird choice.

Second... Even if it's 2.3M, 6 out of 2.3M is still not statically significant. You're looking at .0003% now....ooooh dang
I chose the 22nd because it was the only legitimate source I could find close to that date range. I posted the politico article above. These issues with the J&J and AstraZeneca vaccine is exactly why young healthy people should not be taking these vaccines.
 

damcde

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April 4th, 4 million doses. Like I said, we can split the difference at 3 million. Regardless, you are at talking about and extremely rare occurrence to this point. I am not saying that they shouldn't stop, they should until the can make sure. But somehow using this as you example that the vaccines were not tested is dumb, considering that most clinical trials are in the tens of thousands and this is is at a rate of 1:500,000. Not only that, but this is a short term, and your whole thing that there were no long term studies on the vaccine. So it doesn't even apply to your initial argument.

 

Trike Rider

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No.

First...I don't know why you chose 22 days ago, weird choice.

Second... Even if it's 2.3M, 6 out of 2.3M is still not statically significant. You're looking at .0003% now....ooooh dang
You are wrong again with that .0003%

The people having severe issues with this vaccine are healthy young woman under that age of 48 with strong immune systems. Try that math out again.
 

Trike Rider

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April 4th, 4 million doses. Like I said, we can split the difference at 3 million. Regardless, you are at talking about and extremely rare occurrence to this point. I am not saying that they shouldn't stop, they should until the can make sure. But somehow using this as you example that the vaccines were not tested is dumb, considering that most clinical trials are in the tens of thousands and this is is at a rate of 1:500,000. Not only that, but this is a short term, and your whole thing that there were no long term studies on the vaccine. So it doesn't even apply to your initial argument.

So far it is only young healthy women with strong immune systems having issues. You might want to rework that math buddy.
 

damcde

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There really isn't any statistical significance in covid deaths for healthy people under the age of 40.

I mean if you just ignore that after COVID became prevalent in 2020 the number of weekly deaths were 500-1.5K higher in the 25-44 age than the last 5 years, than sure.

 

damcde

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You are wrong again with that .0003%

The people having severe issues with this vaccine are healthy young woman under that age of 48 with strong immune systems. Try that math out again.

So far it is only young healthy women with strong immune systems having issues. You might want to rework that math buddy.

It is amusing watching you try to move your goalposts because you are wrong.
 

mhosek

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There really isn't conclusive math, because there hasn't been enough time, IMHO. Yeah as of This Article, the number is very small, and the percent Positively affected is minute and not statistically significant. That said, I do think it illustrates why there should be a least a MODICUM of caution and thought into the reflexive taking of these vaccines. How many ppl have died of a 'stroke' in the last couple months who may have had an un-diagnosed superior sagittal sinus thrombosis? How many ppl are walking around right now asymptomatically with the condition? Just bein the skeptic, because its not always a bad thing. Especially when it relates to the federal government.
 

blender9236

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How am I wrong? Be specific!

Because your argument against getting the vaccine is COVID only affects 1% of young health people, which you argue is such a small percentage that it isn't worth getting vaccinated. Then you turn around and argue that an adverse reaction rate of 0.001% (which has yet too be proven to be a result of the J&J vaccination) is alarmingly high. You can't have it both ways.
 

mhosek

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If there's one thing I think we all can agree on, its that the federal government, 99.9% of the clowns in DC, don't give a SHIT about any of us. Our elected federal representatives HAVE been and WILL CONTINUE TO BE absolutely Worthless to us, until we find a way to Routinely replace them, until we prevent ANY of them from making DC politics a career.
 

Trike Rider

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Because your argument against getting the vaccine is COVID only affects 1% of young health people, which you argue is such a small percentage that it isn't worth getting vaccinated. Then you turn around and argue that an adverse reaction rate of 0.001% (which has yet too be proven to be a result of the J&J vaccination) is alarmingly high. You can't have it both ways.
No my argument against getting the vaccine is that it is a new vaccine that didn't go through the proper long term large scale tests before being administered on a massive scale.
 

damcde

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use your argument against getting the vaccine is COVID only affects 1% of young health people, which you argue is such a small percentage that it isn't worth getting vaccinated. Then you turn around and argue that an adverse reaction rate of 0.001% (which has yet too be proven to be a result of the J&J vaccination) is alarmingly high. You can't

tenor.gif
 

damcde

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No my argument against getting the vaccine is that it is a new vaccine that didn't go through the proper long term large scale tests before being administered on a massive scale.

Proper long-term large scale tests that don't occur for other vaccines as you continue to claim. You have a "discovery phase" looking at the technology. Then phase I, which is a few month trial looking at a couple hundred people. Then you have a phase II, looking at a few thousand over a few months, and then a phase II looking at tens of thousands of people over a few months.

The technology behind the vaccine had the same discovery phase as every other vaccine. Then they has several phase I trials, showing safety. Then COVID vaccines had their own Phase I trial. Then they combined Phase II and III together, which has been done in the past for other vaccines, and looked at them from a few months.

The difference is that instead of taking a year for data analysis of the few month trial between each phase for other vaccines (which is what you are mischaracterizing as "long-term studies"), they monitored and analyzed the data extremely quickly.
 
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Trike Rider

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Proper long-term large scale tests that don't occur for other vaccines as you continue to claim. You have a "discovery phase" looking at the technology. Then phase I, which is a few month trial looking at a couple hundred people. Then you have a phase II, looking at a few thousand over a few months, and then a phase II looking at tens of thousands of people over a few months.

The technology behind the vaccine had the same discovery phase as every other vaccine. Then they has several phase I trials, showing safety. Then COVID vaccines had their own Phase I trial. Then they combined Phase II and III together, which has been done in the past for other vaccines, and looked at them from a few months.

The difference is that instead of taking a year for data analysis of the few month trial between each phase for other vaccines (which is what you are mischaracterizing as "long-term studies"), they monitored and analyzed the data extremely quickly.
1. Discovery research takes 2-5 years

2. Pre-Clinical take 2 years

3. Clinical Development Phase 1- Is it Safe? 1-2 years

4. Clinical Development Phase 2 - Does it activate the Immune response? 2-3 years

5. Clinical Development Phase 3- Does it protect against the disease 2-4 years.

6. Regulatory Review and and Approval- 1-2 years


Do you realize phase 1 was rushed? Do you realize we are only at Phase 2 and then they cut corners and decided to do Phase 3 at the same time? Holy crap it is like arguing with a child with a room temp IQ.

You act like cutting corners and giving special permissions to get these vaccines out to the public on a mass scale is normal. This is far from normal and very alarming healthy people are rushing to be guinea pigs.

https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/clinical-trial-data
 
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whiteshoes97

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1. Discovery research takes 2-5 years

2. Pre-Clinical take 2 years

3. Clinical Development Phase 1- Is it Safe? 1-2 years

4. Clinical Development Phase 2 - Does it activate the Immune response? 2-3 years

5. Clinical Development Phase 3- Does it protect against the disease 2-4 years.

6. Regulatory Review and and Approval- 1-2 years

This process has always taken 5-10 years.

You act like cutting corners and giving special permissions to get these vaccines out to the public on a mass scale is normal. This is far from normal and very alarming healthy people are rushing to be guinea pigs.
What will you do if/when peer reviewed studies show it significantly reduces transmission?
 

sklarbodds

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You are wrong again with that .0003%

The people having severe issues with this vaccine are healthy young woman under that age of 48 with strong immune systems. Try that math out again.
6 / 2,300,000 = 0.00000260869

I rounded up to 2 for you, using your skewed numbers (it's not 2.3M, it's prob 4M before the last 2 weeks or 0.000015 (.00015%)).

They paused it over 6 cases. Every vaccine has some side effects, we're not talking about that right now.
 

Trike Rider

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6 / 2,300,000 = 0.00000260869

I rounded up to 2 for you, using your skewed numbers (it's not 2.3M, it's prob 4M before the last 2 weeks or 0.000015 (.00015%)).

They paused it over 6 cases. Every vaccine has some side effects, we're not talking about that right now.
You realize they are having the same issues in Europe with the AstraZeneca vaccine that is very similar to the J&J vaccine? And based on current data you should only be focusing on healthy women age 18-48. You have no clue what that percentage really is.
 

sklarbodds

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The blood clotting issues in young women.
LOL ok, you're trading Covid with a much higher chance of severe complications and even death....for a .00015% chance of a complication where only 1 person died.

You're not good at understanding risk on a large scale I guess.

“We are recommending a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution,” Dr. Peter Marks, director of the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, and Dr. Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the C.D.C., said in a joint statement. “Right now, these adverse events appear to be extremely rare.”


 

Trike Rider

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LOL ok, you're trading Covid with a much higher chance of severe complications and even death....for a .00015% chance of a complication where only 1 person died.

You're not good at understanding risk on a large scale I guess.

“We are recommending a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution,” Dr. Peter Marks, director of the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, and Dr. Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the C.D.C., said in a joint statement. “Right now, these adverse events appear to be extremely rare.”


Again, you have no clue what the real percentage is buddy.

Are you trying to say you are more intelligent than the people at the CDC and FDA? You should be applauding these brilliant scientists instead of criticizing them!! Trust the Science!!!
 

sklarbodds

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Again, you have no clue what the real percentage is buddy.

Are you trying to say you are more intelligent than the people at the CDC and FDA? You should be applauding these brilliant scientists instead of criticizing them!! Trust the Science!!!
No I'm applauding them for making the pause for sure. Overly cautious when we have several available options is a good idea.

But you keep coming in here making it necessary for someone to come in here and correct you because you're just not super good at understanding this stuff.
 

Trike Rider

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No I'm applauding them for making the pause for sure. Overly cautious when we have several available options is a good idea.

But you keep coming in here making it necessary for someone to come in here and correct you because you're just not super good at understanding this stuff.
Ok what am I specifically not super good at understand.
 

biscuitbagger3

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There really isn't conclusive math, because there hasn't been enough time, IMHO. Yeah as of This Article, the number is very small, and the percent Positively affected is minute and not statistically significant. That said, I do think it illustrates why there should be a least a MODICUM of caution and thought into the reflexive taking of these vaccines. How many ppl have died of a 'stroke' in the last couple months who may have had an un-diagnosed superior sagittal sinus thrombosis? How many ppl are walking around right now asymptomatically with the condition? Just bein the skeptic, because its not always a bad thing. Especially when it relates to the federal government.
Would you agree that by making this move it should make people feel better about oversight rather than the opposite?
 

biscuitbagger3

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If there's one thing I think we all can agree on, its that the federal government, 99.9% of the clowns in DC, don't give a SHIT about any of us. Our elected federal representatives HAVE been and WILL CONTINUE TO BE absolutely Worthless to us, until we find a way to Routinely replace them, until we prevent ANY of them from making DC politics a career.
We do have a way to routinely replace them, unfortunately we (both sides) just don’t exercise it.
 
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sklarbodds

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Ok what am I specifically not super good at understand.
English? ;)

Risk of severe Covid complications >>>>>> Risk of severe J&J vaccine complications....thus the comment, "If you're under 40 you shouldn't get vaccinated" is complete BS...not to mention the risk of spreading it to others and making this whole sh*t drag on longer and longer.

EVERYONE (over 16 and medically able) to get vaccinated and we can kiss this whole thing goodbye.
 
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