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Covid Cases & College Football

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Keep being a sheep.
the sheep is the one scared to wear a mask. the sheep is scared to change their behavior for the sake of anyone else. the sheep is scared to give up any freedom. the sheep is so scared they resort to call
Keep being a sheep.
sheep are scared of wearing a mask. sheep are scared of change. sheep are scared of sacrifice. Lions protect their pride.
 
guidance, not mandates. no definition whatsoever of terms.

this is a non-story.

But as we've seen, guidance is all the scapegoat they'll need. "We're just following guidance..." And no one will ask them why they didn't think for themselves.
 
I am against lock downs and I haven't had a day off yet. Been working extra in fact.

But in general it's the govt, academics, and work-from-homers who think everything should be shut down.

And teachers, who want to keep getting paid without having to face their little terrorists every day.
LOL i guess you've never met a teacher. they dont get paid when they do work. they dont do it for the money. i grew up in a family of teachers and married into a family of teachers and not a single one of them want to stay at home so they can get paid without working. Not one. they all miss the kids and the comradery. money doesn't really ever enter into the equation for most teachers because when you aren't getting any it isn't a part of their life. but go own with your ignorance. nationwide polls show more people favoring the closing or delaying of schools than not. not saying its the right call just saying the majority have no issue with it. so its not a small number of fringe people
 
the sheep is the one scared to wear a mask. the sheep is scared to change their behavior for the sake of anyone else. the sheep is scared to give up any freedom. the sheep is so scared they resort to call

sheep are scared of wearing a mask. sheep are scared of change. sheep are scared of sacrifice. Lions protect their pride.

Whatever you say hero!
 
Whatever you say hero!
its not what i say. i'm just going along with everyone else. to be scared of those things is considered "sheepish" by almost anyone you ask. there are a lot more significantly scary things you do every day that dont bother you. but something like a piece of cotton touching your face alarms you
 
EdIoE6TX0AA--fC
 
it isn't a lockdown. this guy just wants to make it political and bitch
Wrong. I never described it as a lockdown. Nor did I advocate for a total opening up. My county has never opened up completely and people here are wearing masks and taking reasonable precautions. Nor do I give a shit about the politics of it all. I just don’t think a very rural area with very few cases should be treated the same as Philly. I am arguing against one size fits all standards when there is no need to do so.
 
Wrong. I never described it as a lockdown. Nor did I advocate for a total opening up. My county has never opened up completely and people here are wearing masks and taking reasonable precautions. Nor do I give a shit about the politics of it all. I just don’t think a very rural area with very few cases should be treated the same as Philly. I am arguing against one size fits all standards when there is no need to do so.

for what it’s worth I agree ...

This is a national emergency/crisis - I do not agree with a federal response in a national crisis of “let the states figure it out” - as there are massive inconsistencies

1. testing,testing, testing - we are doing this ( but that is it)
2. % of positive tracked with opening and restrictions based on these numbers - the higher % predictive the more restrictions - these are standard nation wide
3. States are divided into regions - so everyplace isn't treated the same - many states are doing this -
4.Masks/distancing are naturally incentivized based on people knowing up front what a certain % positive number means - they get mandated once a threshold is reached
5. Hospitals coordinate to maximize bed utilization - sickest patients in the hospitals best able to care for them - as they recover they are transitioned to lower acuity hospitals - this doesn't happen - you can't transfer to a lower acuity hospital unless it is a rehab - beds fill up with chronically sick patients that aren't well enough for rehab while smaller hospitals have capacity
6. Network of eICUs/tele-ICUs so specialty physicians can remotely assist with patient management in heavily affected areas

economically - until there is a vaccine or better treatment and things get back on track - I would favor a more socialist financial model

the "haves" get squeezed to keep the bottom afloat - need to significantly narrow the gap between the extremely wealthy and the poor or those who are going to become poor due to the pandemic - this does not have to be permanent

universities are required to use x% of endowment funds for pandemic relief to qualify for any federal relief

lots of holes I'm sure but our response has not been coordinated and remains very haphazard
 
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for what it’s worth I agree ...

This is a national emergency/crisis - I do not agree with a federal response in a national crisis of “let the states figure it out” - as there are massive inconsistencies

1. testing,testing, testing - we are doing this ( but that is it)
2. % of positive tracked with opening and restrictions based on these numbers - the higher % predictive the more restrictions - these are standard nation wide
3. States are divided into regions - so everyplace isn't treated the same - many states are doing this -
4.Masks/distancing are naturally incentivized based on people knowing up front what a certain % positive number means - they get mandated once a threshold is reached
5. Hospitals coordinate to maximize bed utilization - sickest patients in the hospitals best able to care for them - as they recover they are transitioned to lower acuity hospitals - this doesn't happen - you can't transfer to a lower acuity hospital unless it is a rehab - beds fill up with chronically sick patients that aren't well enough for rehab while smaller hospitals have capacity
6. Network of eICUs/tele-ICUs so specialty physicians can remotely assist with patient management in heavily affected areas

economically - until there is a vaccine and things get back on track - I would favor a more socialist financial model

the "haves" get squeezed to keep the bottom afloat - need to significantly narrow the gap between the extremely wealthy and the poor or those who are going to become poor due to the pandemic - this does not have to be permanent

universities are required to use x% of endowment funds for pandemic relief to qualify for any federal relief

lots of holes I'm sure but our response has not been coordinated and remains very haphazard
Good post and I agree with all of it.
Well.... except for the vaccine thing. I just read several articles that are casting strong doubt on ever getting a vaccine that works. The problem is our antibodies to Covid seem to weaken and fade quickly. So you would need to get revaccinated 3 or 4 times a year. Not good or feasible.
Instead we probably need to focus on finding better treatments for the symptoms and try to turn Covid into a nuisance rather than a deadly threat.
 
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Good post and I agree with all of it.
Well.... except for the vaccine thing. I just read several articles that are casting strong doubt on ever getting a vaccine that works. The problem is our antibodies to Covid seem to weaken and fade quickly. So you would need to get revaccinated 3 or 4 times a year. Not good or feasible.
Instead we probably need to focus on finding better treatments for the symptoms and try to turn Covid into a nuisance rather than a deadly threat.
For the umpteenth time. Circulating antibodies are NOT the key to long term immunity. They are only one part of your immune system. Antibodies are a glycoprotein and have a limited life span in your blood stream. Cell mediated immunity (CMI) via T cell memory is the key. T helper cells respond to a virus to stimulate B cells that produce new antibodies, I guarantee you that IF you checked my titer for tetanus it would say I don't have circulating antibodies to tetanus. Does that mean I'm not protected against tetanus? HELL NO!
 
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For the umpteenth time. Circulating antibodies are NOT the key to long term immunity. They are only one part of your immune system. Antibodies are a glycoprotein and have a limited life span in your blood stream. Cell mediated immunity (CMI) via T cell memory is the key. T helper cells respond to a virus to stimulate B cells that produce new antibodies, I guarantee you that IF you checked my titer for tetanus it would say I don't have circulating antibodies to tetanus. Does that mean I'm not protected against tetanus? HELL NO!
regardless of the reason there is information out there that these early vaccine candidates may require booster shots. for whatever reason
 
regardless of the reason there is information out there that these early vaccine candidates may require booster shots. for whatever reason
Most viral vaccines require a booster immunization given at least 2-3 weeks after the initial dose. Flu vaccines I assume don't because you've had previous exposure to wild viruses similar to the vaccine or you've had previous flu vaccinations.
 
FWIW, it turns out the WHO Dr. who suggested that asymptomatic transmission was rare was right. The problem is that people confuse mild symptoms such as malaise with being asymptomatic. IF you experience prodromal malaise, you're not asymptomatic. The people promoting the idea that asymptomatic shedders account for over half of the transmission are incorrect it would seem. The article was on Bloomberg citing a researcher at St. Andrews University, U.K. The researcher evaluated the data in multiple studies published in the Annals of Internal Medicine and concluded that what that WHO Dr stated was accurate.
 
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Most viral vaccines require a booster immunization given at least 2-3 weeks after the initial dose. Flu vaccines I assume don't because you've had previous exposure to wild viruses similar to the vaccine or you've had previous flu vaccinations.
Do you know if studies have been done with the phenomenon vaccine and if it happens to deter the corona virus? Just curious
 
Yes, those are the new rules and they cover the entire State, which is stupid. Almost all of the uptick in new cases have been in Pittsburgh and Philly. Everywhere else is doing fine. My county, Luzerne, had 5 new cases in the past week. We shouldn’t be lumped in with the two big problem areas.

Centre County, where Penn State is located - my employer - has low numbers but cases are ticking upward. After weeks of 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, we're ticking up to 6, 7, 8. After thousands of students hung out in State College last weekend and packed the bars, I expect cases to jump significantly in the next 2-4 weeks. Students are now converging on State College every weekend to move into apartments. Their complications will be low, but one student died at the end of June. Faculty and staff (such as myself) are at higher risk. I will be advising from home this fall whenever possible and hoping like hell something changes by the time I have to co-teach a class in the spring.
 
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There's been roughly the same number of murders and shootings of small children in St. Louis as there has been COVID deaths. Where' the outrage about the shootings.
Nobody is making the argument that we should just let the shootings run their course since they only affect a small percentage of children. That's the difference.
 
For the umpteenth time. Circulating antibodies are NOT the key to long term immunity. They are only one part of your immune system. Antibodies are a glycoprotein and have a limited life span in your blood stream. Cell mediated immunity (CMI) via T cell memory is the key. T helper cells respond to a virus to stimulate B cells that produce new antibodies, I guarantee you that IF you checked my titer for tetanus it would say I don't have circulating antibodies to tetanus. Does that mean I'm not protected against tetanus? HELL NO!
My bad. I shouldn’t have said antibodies. The scientists I am referring to are immunologists who are saying our immune system only gives us temporary immunity to Covid once we have had it or taken a vaccine. I assume that includes T cell memory as well.
 
Centre County, where Penn State is located - my employer - has low numbers but cases are ticking upward. After weeks of 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, we're ticking up to 6, 7, 8. After thousands of students hung out in State College last weekend and packed the bars, I expect cases to jump significantly in the next 2-4 weeks. Students are now converging on State College every weekend to move into apartments. Their complications will be low, but one student died at the end of June. Faculty and staff (such as myself) are at higher risk. I will be advising from home this fall whenever possible and hoping like hell something changes by the time I have to co-teach a class in the spring.
Yes I expect there is going to be an uptick in college towns. I used to teach before my retirement at DeSales University in Lehigh County. There are about 6 universities in the Lehigh Valley area and I still have lots of friends who teach there. They are all fearful that this rush to return to semi-normality is going to put them at risk.
There are no easy answers. But one thing is certain ... masks work to slow the spread. I hate these yahoos who treat it like a badge of honor not to wear them.
 
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for what it’s worth I agree ...

This is a national emergency/crisis - I do not agree with a federal response in a national crisis of “let the states figure it out” - as there are massive inconsistencies

1. testing,testing, testing - we are doing this ( but that is it)
2. % of positive tracked with opening and restrictions based on these numbers - the higher % predictive the more restrictions - these are standard nation wide
3. States are divided into regions - so everyplace isn't treated the same - many states are doing this -
4.Masks/distancing are naturally incentivized based on people knowing up front what a certain % positive number means - they get mandated once a threshold is reached
5. Hospitals coordinate to maximize bed utilization - sickest patients in the hospitals best able to care for them - as they recover they are transitioned to lower acuity hospitals - this doesn't happen - you can't transfer to a lower acuity hospital unless it is a rehab - beds fill up with chronically sick patients that aren't well enough for rehab while smaller hospitals have capacity
6. Network of eICUs/tele-ICUs so specialty physicians can remotely assist with patient management in heavily affected areas

economically - until there is a vaccine or better treatment and things get back on track - I would favor a more socialist financial model

the "haves" get squeezed to keep the bottom afloat - need to significantly narrow the gap between the extremely wealthy and the poor or those who are going to become poor due to the pandemic - this does not have to be permanent

universities are required to use x% of endowment funds for pandemic relief to qualify for any federal relief

lots of holes I'm sure but our response has not been coordinated and remains very haphazard


4+ months of this garbage and you haven't learned anything. Sad.
 
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Nobody is making the argument that we should just let the shootings run their course since they only affect a small percentage of children. That's the difference.

Right, so you try to focus the protection - for wuflu it'd be elderly and ill, for shootings it'd be police in high crime areas, and let everyone else go about their life - even though you know shootings can happen anywhere and no matter what steps you take you can't stop it all.

You don't force people out of work, tell them to stay home, decide what is essential and what isn't and make everyone wear a bulletproof vest.
 
LOL i guess you've never met a teacher. they dont get paid when they do work. they dont do it for the money.

Right they do it for the M-F 8am-4pm-ish hours, and only working 180 days a year with every made up holiday off and summers too along with no real accountability.

I really hope their "planning hour" and "monitoring study hall" doesn't stress them too much!

And teachers have gotten paid this entire year.

Below is an example of the teacher's year. There is 1 month where they teach 4 weeks. 1 out of 12.

2019-20-School-Calendar-12-17-18-1024x791.jpg
 
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Open bars are ideal for spreading the virus.

They're the boogeyman - people can blame them with no real proof. Everyone had the same hysteria over the lake of the ozarks on mermorial day weekend and there hasn't been one case traced to it. And there was zero social distancing.

I think in Korea they found 1 instance of spread from a bar.
 
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My bad. I shouldn’t have said antibodies. The scientists I am referring to are immunologists who are saying our immune system only gives us temporary immunity to Covid once we have had it or taken a vaccine. I assume that includes T cell memory as well.
Temporary in this case will likely mean greater than a year. Every rat is coming out of their sewers with every possible angle to fear monger. It's sickening. Every single Corona virus vaccine in animals only recommends annual boosters. They don't get that label if they don't provide at least a year of immunity. This one will be no different. Combine that with the fact that there is strong evidence that COVID is closely related enough to the Corona virus common cold that it gives some people some cross protection and I think we'll be just fine with annual boosters.
 
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They're the boogeyman - people can blame them with no real proof. Everyone had the same hysteria over the lake of the ozarks on mermorial day weekend and there hasn't been one case traced to it. And there was zero social distancing.

I think in Korea they found 1 instance of spread from a bar.
If you sit next to somebody at a bar who is shedding virus for 15 minutes, the odds are very good that they will give it to you. . I've seen stories of documented transmission from contact tracing at bars. It's hard to know who to believe, but given my training I find it extremely likely that IF you sit at a bar for 15 minutes with a person shedding the virus, that you will get the virus. It's logical and likely. As I've stated before. Turn off the AC and put a giant exhaust fan in window or doorway if you want to have an open bar. Air changes are very important.
 
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economically - until there is a vaccine or better treatment and things get back on track - I would favor a more socialist financial model

the "haves" get squeezed to keep the bottom afloat - need to significantly narrow the gap between the extremely wealthy and the poor or those who are going to become poor due to the pandemic - this does not have to be permanent

universities are required to use x% of endowment funds for pandemic relief to qualify for any federal relief

lots of holes I'm sure but our response has not been coordinated and remains very haphazard
I figured that's what your agenda was with all of your fear mongering. Never let a good crisis go to waste right? Your dem buddy caught on an open mic approves of your message. You should go take a victory lap with Cuomo and pat him on the back. Nevermind that the main reason their cases have declined is that they've reached such a high population immunity.
 
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Temporary in this case will likely mean greater than a year. Every rat is coming out of their sewers with every possible angle to fear monger. It's sickening. Every single Corona virus vaccine in animals only recommends annual boosters. They don't get that label if they don't provide at least a year of immunity. This one will be no different. Combine that with the fact that there is strong evidence that COVID is closely related enough to the Corona virus common cold that it gives some people some cross protection and I think we'll be just fine with annual boosters.
The point being made though by the reputable scientists I have read (not “rats”) is that they highly doubt such a vaccine is possible. And they are not fear mongering or playing politics. In fact, they fear that the good vaccine news we have recently gotten has been politicized in order to justify opening up economies too soon. They want greater attention to be paid to treatment regimens in order to mitigate symptoms and make the disease less deadly. They are not opposed to vaccine research but think the chances of a truly effective vaccine are low and so we need resources devoted, in equal measure, to post infection treatments.

And the fact is, vaccines are not being developed to promote T cell response but neutralizing antibody response. And the news that those antibodies wane in only a few months therefore is pertinent to the discussion. Much is still not known, of course, and there is hope we will have some immunity based on T cell memory that is hopeful.
 
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The point being made though by the reputable scientists I have read (not “rats”) is that they highly doubt such a vaccine is possible. And they are not fear mongering or playing politics. In fact, they fear that the good vaccine news we have recently gotten has been politicized in order to justify opening up economies too soon. They want greater attention to be paid to treatment regimens in order to mitigate symptoms and make the disease less deadly. They are not opposed to vaccine research but think the chances of a truly effective vaccine are low and so we need resources devoted, in equal measure, to post infection treatments.
don't believe the fear mongering. I don't care how "reputable" they supposedly are. There are a huge number of academic researchers and scientists who are vehemently political. Most skepticism about making a vaccine to this is previous inability to make a vaccine to the myriad Corona cold viruses. The problem there is just the vast variety of strains of Corona viruses that potentially cause upper respiratory symptoms. In THIS case we're making a vaccine to ONE specific virus that we know the complete genome for. This is a slam dunk. We've been making effective vaccines against other mammalian Corona viruses for decades. This one will be no different. What eventually could happen is that we'll select for mutations of this virus which don't include the antigens that we're making the vaccine against. That said, that should take decades to happen and who knows if the new strains will be anywhere near as pathogenic as this one. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. We'll both likely be dead by then anyway.

This thing we're discussing is in my wheelhouse. It's something I've dealt with for almost 40 years.
 
don't believe the fear mongering. I don't care how "reputable" they supposedly are. There are a huge number of academic researchers and scientists who are vehemently political. Most skepticism about making a vaccine to this is previous inability to make a vaccine to the myriad Corona cold viruses. The problem there is just the vast variety of strains of Corona viruses that potentially cause upper respiratory symptoms. In THIS case we're making a vaccine to ONE specific virus that we know the complete genome for. This is a slam dunk. We've been making effective vaccines against other mammalian Corona viruses for decades. This one will be no different. What eventually could happen is that we'll select for mutations of this virus which don't include the antigens that we're making the vaccine against. That said, that should take decades to happen and who knows if the new strains will be anywhere near as pathogenic as this one. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. We'll both likely be dead by then anyway.
What then are the political motivations of scientists working on the virus who think treatment of symptoms is a more viable path than a vaccine? I think the pecuniary interests of their companies are probably a bigger motivator than politics. So if you work for a biotech firm that focuses on vaccines you will be pushing that solution. If you work for a firm that focuses on treatments same deal. I am not naive and I have been in academia and know damn well that there are tons of outside factors that destroy true objectivity. I am not succumbing to fear mongering and give due weight to everything I read and take much of it with a grain of salt. Nobody has all the answers and we are in the early stages of understanding this virus. So I am keeping an open, but critical, mind
 
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They're the boogeyman - people can blame them with no real proof. Everyone had the same hysteria over the lake of the ozarks on mermorial day weekend and there hasn't been one case traced to it. And there was zero social distancing.

I think in Korea they found 1 instance of spread from a bar.
My buddy and I were in a strip club just last week. My friend had dollars put in his mouth. Gross. I had a private with a girl who had been to NY and had covid awhile ago. No masks. No social distancing. Tons of people. Guess what. We're both fine.
 
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Most viral vaccines require a booster immunization given at least 2-3 weeks after the initial dose. Flu vaccines I assume don't because you've had previous exposure to wild viruses similar to the vaccine or you've had previous flu vaccinations.
the covid vaccines that are behind the frontrunners look like they will not need booster shots. right now the best ones might be the last ones. we will see
 
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