Covid 6.0
- Thread starter kaz36
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I eluded to those examples earlier this morning a few responses up. This is exactly why I refuse to believe we'd be in any better shape if somebody else was running the show, then remember the drastic measures that were suggested by the head honcho were shot down as racist. I am also sensing some sadness in a certain party that see's their chances of using this as a weapon to help regain power come November slipping away.
Is the open table data for reservations?
Don't be ridiculous. The media hyped and faulty models caused the lockdowns.
Aren't they looking into immune suppression? The body attacks the body with wuhan. Suppressing the responses reduces inflamation due from immunity overreaction.
To my knowledge, no ones running massive antibody checking. It doesn't matter who obviously has had the wuhan, but everyone who has the antibodies, the one true result and way to count a real percentage.
Usually only the most fervent take the time for primaries.
Now, its the most slavish.
IMHE model downgrades projected death count to just over 60k today with new data
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
lotta people with egg on their face. trust in your fellow man, be a proud American, do what's best for you & your family. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
lotta people with egg on their face. trust in your fellow man, be a proud American, do what's best for you & your family. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Liberals think highly of themselves, always assuming their choices are some high moral equivalence.
Conservatives hope we're making the wisest choices in the most costly way that works in the widest way possible.
Conservatives see big spending,every issue liberals with bad ideas, whereas liberals,already believing their self thought higher moral beliefs, think less spending, less ideas to spend,see conservatives as evil.
So, conservatives sees liberals as people with bad ideas, liberals sees conservatives as bad people with ideas.
For years, the libs screamed, you can't legislate your morality to the right, now, the libs are saints, and believe government is the only way to morality.
Theyve dumped God, or put Him second level to government, thus the mistrust shown by new yorks leaders towards the free hospital franklin graham set up.
As posted earlier
This data shows year-over-year seated diners at restaurants on the OpenTable network across all channels: online reservations, phone reservations, and walk-ins.
We can find outliers always.
The data is being refined, which it should be. Hopefully we will be better prepared for next time. Modeling human behavior is not an easy thing to do. Social distancing, stopping large gatherings and staying at home appears to be doing what was intended to suppress the exponential growth of infections.
I quit arpguing this, as the numbers fell. I've also quit with our med leaders recommended strides for our society going forwards.
The current actions of social distancing, and likely seasonal response is working, now is the more important time to start us working.
The models were changing, and many thought we could do better, those who actually looked into the myriad of variables that many here didn't think those models carried, which obviously they didn't, and has started a second argument as to the actions of the virus, the most constant in all the models.
So read what I said, let it soak in.
We need to move on to getting us going now
Because this is the one they've decided they can blame on one man and use it as an opportunity to regain power. Duh.
How about seeking both ends, instead of chasing?
Knowing who already had this,vs who is now getting it,but only after weeks ofno symptoms etc is a fools errand.
Having that serology test is key, sets for both ends, not just where its going, then later seeing what our actions have done to alter trajectories,always chasing it.
No, but where it's already been, then finding herd effect, easier serum usage for faster cure etc etc.
it's not easy when people are in a panic and completely untrusting of their fellow man, instead looking to their elected daddies to protect them.
it's pretty obvious if you lick your finger and put it in the air for a second.
you were one posting that infamous 2M+ death projection as soon as late March. I don't blame you, but I do hope you're impressed by the collective coming together of their own accord to do their part. I also don't think this virus was ever nearly the death sentence it was made out to be on the outset.
I wonder if that alarmist @Hoosker Du has updated his numbers
This is an insane conspiracy theory. You think Italy is on lockdown to take power away from Trump? Red states all over the country are on stay at home orders because they don’t like Trump? Not everything is a grand conspiracy against the President.
So you guys haven't been blaming this on one man and used his response to it as a reason why we need to make a change? Interesting...I guess all i've heard and read since this started wasn't real. My bad.
I think they did it to own your mind, you may as well responded with.
Sheesh man, is this over your head?
“You guys”. GTFO.
It’s an international pandemic. Why are you so insistent on making everything a one side against another political pissing match? If you really think the world is out to get Trump and that really is everything you have heard and read, it might be time to broaden your horizons.
American media vehicles continuously parroting chinese propaganda of zero deaths reported are beyond irresponsible.
American businesses should be doing everything they can to become independent of chinese services as quickly as possible. just like we've become energy independent, we must do the same with manufacturing.
The religious right don’t claim a moral high ground? The religious right haven’t hijacked the Republican party?
I should stop before we get this locked...ha
I linked the report and said it was what Governments were making projections off of.
[/QUOTE]
I won't argue that the media is perfect, but I think way too many people blame the media for everything that is going on.
When NSAA held the Boys BB State Tournament with only family of the participants, they didn't consult the media on that.....they consulted city officials and the local and state health departments. Stay at home orders have been made in consultation with health experts, not the media.
The only time I have heard the media reference no deaths has come with a disclaimer, such as "according to Chinese officials...". If you think the media should be doing more to criticize China, then you're basically saying the need to be doing more of something for which many criticize them.
I won't argue that the media is perfect, but I think way too many people blame the media for everything that is going on.
When NSAA held the Boys BB State Tournament with only family of the participants, they didn't consult the media on that.....they consulted city officials and the local and state health departments. Stay at home orders have been made in consultation with health experts, not the media.
I would rather do this than send any more $$$ to china
they shouldn't report it at all. in fact, it's not reporting. it's parroting. we all know those officials aren't credible, and so do they.
no decisions should be made because of media. the lifeblood of a democracy is a well-informed public.
Sure, so does the Godless left.
But many non religious Godly people dont, so, your point?
Do you think the religious right elected Trump? Do you believe there's no never trumpers? Do you believe a years old story held by nbc about trump and where he grabbed was released right before the election, and to have effecr on whom?
I see the rights own problems, and the lefts, but the left is stuck on old hippie beliefs, hasn't changed, and just can't see themselves, much like the old repubs. The never trumpers.
IF they need the vent they need it. At that point it's too late to worry about the mortality rate. Maybe we would have had less deaths IF WE HAD RUN OUT OF VENTILATORS.
Well, it looks like in the cases that the immune system doesn't fight of the virus fast enough or possible other underlying conditions that the coronavirus inhibits the blood's ability to deliver oxygen. Thus, ventilators do not do any good as they are delivering oxygen to lungs that are delivering it to blood that can't transport it.
Archived copy of blog post:
This blog post has subsequently been removed. Probably too close to the truth. Malpractice?
No wonder states have been sending back their requested ventilators to the federal stockpile.
https://www.politico.com/states/cal...entilators-back-to-national-stockpile-1272393
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/wa...help-other-states/QC3FCYFH7FHMLN44BL6Q5RVI7Y/
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavi...v-kate-brown-we-are-all-in-this-together.html
Rivals removed my archived link, or it linked the original article and won't let me link the archive.
Here is blog post:
Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret.
libertymavenstock
Apr 5 · 8 min read
In the last 3–5 days, a mountain of anecdotal evidence has come out of NYC, Italy, Spain, etc. about COVID-19 and characteristics of patients who get seriously ill. It’s not only piling up but now leading to a general field-level consensus backed up by a few previously little-known studies that we’ve had it all wrong the whole time. Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.
There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS. At least not the ARDS with established treatment protocols and procedures we’re familiar with. Ventilators are not only the wrong solution, but high pressure intubation can actually wind up causing more damage than without, not to mention complications from tracheal scarring and ulcers given the duration of intubation often required… They may still have a use in the immediate future for patients too far to bring back with this newfound knowledge, but moving forward a new treatment protocol needs to be established so we stop treating patients for the wrong disease.
The past 48 hours or so have seen a huge revelation: COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ or fatigue.
Here’s the breakdown of the whole process, including some ELI5-level cliff notes. Much has been simplified just to keep it digestible and layman-friendly.
Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.
When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.
Here’s where COVID-19 comes in. Its glycoproteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that special and toxic oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released). It’s basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own. This is bad for two reasons:
1) Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen. Once all the hemoglobin is impaired, the red blood cell is essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo.. it is useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to its porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient’s spo2 levels drop. It is INCORRECT to assume traditional ARDS and in doing so, you’re treating the WRONG DISEASE. Think of it a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning, in which CO is bound to the hemoglobin, making it unable to carry oxygen. In those cases, ventilators aren’t treating the root cause; the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. The red blood cells just can’t carry o2, end of story. Only in this case, unlike CO poisoning in which eventually the CO can break off, the affected hemoglobin is permanently stripped of its ability to carry o2 because it has lost its iron ion. The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity and deliveries by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin. This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does… EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
— — — — — — — — — — — — -
Once your body is now running out of control, with all your oxygen trucks running around without any freight, and tons of this toxic form of iron floating around in your bloodstream, other defenses kick in. While your lungs are busy with all this oxidative stress they can’t handle, and your organs are being starved of o2 without their constant stream of deliveries from red blood cell’s hemoglobin, and your liver is attempting to do its best to remove the iron and store it in its ‘iron vault’. Only its getting overwhelmed too. It’s starved for oxygen and fighting a losing battle from all your hemoglobin letting its iron free, and starts crying out “help, I’m taking damage!” by releasing an enzyme called alanine aminotransferase (ALT). BOOM, there is your second of 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
Eventually, if the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. No fuel, no work. The only way to even try to keep them going is max oxygen, even a hyperbaric chamber if one is available on 100% oxygen at multiple atmospheres of pressure, just to give what’s left of their functioning hemoglobin a chance to carry enough o2 to the organs and keep them alive. Yeah we don’t have nearly enough of those chambers, so some fresh red blood cells with normal hemoglobin in the form of a transfusion will have to do.
The core point being, treating patients with the iron ions stripped from their hemoglobin (rendering it abnormally nonfunctional) with ventilator intubation is futile, unless you’re just hoping the patient’s immune system will work its magic in time. The root of the illness needs to be addressed.
Best case scenario? Treatment regimen early, before symptoms progress too far. Hydroxychloroquine (more on that in a minute, I promise) with Azithromicin has shown fantastic, albeit critics keep mentioning ‘anecdotal’ to describe the mountain, promise and I’ll explain why it does so well next. But forget straight-up plasma with antibodies, that might work early but if the patient is too far gone they’ll need more. They’ll need all the blood: antibodies and red blood cells. No help in sending over a detachment of ammunition to a soldier already unconscious and bleeding out on the battlefield, you need to send that ammo along with some hemoglobin-stimulant-magic so that he can wake up and fire those shots at the enemy.
The story with Hydroxychloroquine
All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.
How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.
No longer can the media and armchair pseudo-physicians sit in their little ivory towers, proclaiming “DUR so stoopid, malaria is bacteria, COVID-19 is virus, anti-bacteria drug no work on virus!”. They never got the memo that a drug doesn’t need to directly act on the pathogen to be effective. Sometimes it’s enough just to stop it from doing what it does to hemoglobin, regardless of the means it uses to do so.
Anyway, enough of the rant. What’s the end result here? First, the ventilator emergency needs to be re-examined. If you’re putting a patient on a ventilator because they’re going into a coma and need mechanical breathing to stay alive, okay we get it. Give ’em time for their immune systems to pull through. But if they’re conscious, alert, compliant — keep them on O2. Max it if you have to. If you HAVE to inevitably ventilate, do it at low pressure but max O2. Don’t tear up their lungs with max PEEP, you’re doing more harm to the patient because you’re treating the wrong disease.
Ideally, some form of treatment needs to happen to:
- Inhibit viral growth and replication. Here plays CHQ+ZPAK+ZINC or other retroviral therapies being studies. Less virus, less hemoglobin losing its iron, less severity and damage.
- Therapies used for anyone with abnormal hemoglobin or malfunctioning red blood cells. Blood transfusions. Whatever, I don’t know the full breadth and scope because I’m not a physician. But think along those lines, and treat the real disease. If you’re thinking about giving them plasma with antibodies, maybe if they’re already in bad shape think again and give them BLOOD with antibodies, or at least blood followed by plasma with antibodies.
- Now that we know more about how this virus works and affects our bodies, a whole range of options should open up.
- Don’t trust China. China is ASSHOE. (disclaimer: not talking about the people, just talking about the regime). They covered this up and have caused all kinds of death and carnage, both literal and economic. The ripples of this pandemic will be felt for decades.
Curious, what are the electron changes prompted by?Rivals removed my archived link, or it linked the original article and won't let me link the archive.
Here is blog post:
Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret.
libertymavenstock
Apr 5 · 8 min read
In the last 3–5 days, a mountain of anecdotal evidence has come out of NYC, Italy, Spain, etc. about COVID-19 and characteristics of patients who get seriously ill. It’s not only piling up but now leading to a general field-level consensus backed up by a few previously little-known studies that we’ve had it all wrong the whole time. Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.
There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS. At least not the ARDS with established treatment protocols and procedures we’re familiar with. Ventilators are not only the wrong solution, but high pressure intubation can actually wind up causing more damage than without, not to mention complications from tracheal scarring and ulcers given the duration of intubation often required… They may still have a use in the immediate future for patients too far to bring back with this newfound knowledge, but moving forward a new treatment protocol needs to be established so we stop treating patients for the wrong disease.
The past 48 hours or so have seen a huge revelation: COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ or fatigue.
Here’s the breakdown of the whole process, including some ELI5-level cliff notes. Much has been simplified just to keep it digestible and layman-friendly.
Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.
When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.
Here’s where COVID-19 comes in. Its glycoproteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that special and toxic oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released). It’s basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own. This is bad for two reasons:
1) Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen. Once all the hemoglobin is impaired, the red blood cell is essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo.. it is useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to its porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient’s spo2 levels drop. It is INCORRECT to assume traditional ARDS and in doing so, you’re treating the WRONG DISEASE. Think of it a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning, in which CO is bound to the hemoglobin, making it unable to carry oxygen. In those cases, ventilators aren’t treating the root cause; the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. The red blood cells just can’t carry o2, end of story. Only in this case, unlike CO poisoning in which eventually the CO can break off, the affected hemoglobin is permanently stripped of its ability to carry o2 because it has lost its iron ion. The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity and deliveries by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin. This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does… EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
— — — — — — — — — — — — -
Once your body is now running out of control, with all your oxygen trucks running around without any freight, and tons of this toxic form of iron floating around in your bloodstream, other defenses kick in. While your lungs are busy with all this oxidative stress they can’t handle, and your organs are being starved of o2 without their constant stream of deliveries from red blood cell’s hemoglobin, and your liver is attempting to do its best to remove the iron and store it in its ‘iron vault’. Only its getting overwhelmed too. It’s starved for oxygen and fighting a losing battle from all your hemoglobin letting its iron free, and starts crying out “help, I’m taking damage!” by releasing an enzyme called alanine aminotransferase (ALT). BOOM, there is your second of 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
Eventually, if the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. No fuel, no work. The only way to even try to keep them going is max oxygen, even a hyperbaric chamber if one is available on 100% oxygen at multiple atmospheres of pressure, just to give what’s left of their functioning hemoglobin a chance to carry enough o2 to the organs and keep them alive. Yeah we don’t have nearly enough of those chambers, so some fresh red blood cells with normal hemoglobin in the form of a transfusion will have to do.
The core point being, treating patients with the iron ions stripped from their hemoglobin (rendering it abnormally nonfunctional) with ventilator intubation is futile, unless you’re just hoping the patient’s immune system will work its magic in time. The root of the illness needs to be addressed.
Best case scenario? Treatment regimen early, before symptoms progress too far. Hydroxychloroquine (more on that in a minute, I promise) with Azithromicin has shown fantastic, albeit critics keep mentioning ‘anecdotal’ to describe the mountain, promise and I’ll explain why it does so well next. But forget straight-up plasma with antibodies, that might work early but if the patient is too far gone they’ll need more. They’ll need all the blood: antibodies and red blood cells. No help in sending over a detachment of ammunition to a soldier already unconscious and bleeding out on the battlefield, you need to send that ammo along with some hemoglobin-stimulant-magic so that he can wake up and fire those shots at the enemy.
The story with Hydroxychloroquine
All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.
How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.
No longer can the media and armchair pseudo-physicians sit in their little ivory towers, proclaiming “DUR so stoopid, malaria is bacteria, COVID-19 is virus, anti-bacteria drug no work on virus!”. They never got the memo that a drug doesn’t need to directly act on the pathogen to be effective. Sometimes it’s enough just to stop it from doing what it does to hemoglobin, regardless of the means it uses to do so.
Anyway, enough of the rant. What’s the end result here? First, the ventilator emergency needs to be re-examined. If you’re putting a patient on a ventilator because they’re going into a coma and need mechanical breathing to stay alive, okay we get it. Give ’em time for their immune systems to pull through. But if they’re conscious, alert, compliant — keep them on O2. Max it if you have to. If you HAVE to inevitably ventilate, do it at low pressure but max O2. Don’t tear up their lungs with max PEEP, you’re doing more harm to the patient because you’re treating the wrong disease.
Ideally, some form of treatment needs to happen to:
Fini.
- Inhibit viral growth and replication. Here plays CHQ+ZPAK+ZINC or other retroviral therapies being studies. Less virus, less hemoglobin losing its iron, less severity and damage.
- Therapies used for anyone with abnormal hemoglobin or malfunctioning red blood cells. Blood transfusions. Whatever, I don’t know the full breadth and scope because I’m not a physician. But think along those lines, and treat the real disease. If you’re thinking about giving them plasma with antibodies, maybe if they’re already in bad shape think again and give them BLOOD with antibodies, or at least blood followed by plasma with antibodies.
- Now that we know more about how this virus works and affects our bodies, a whole range of options should open up.
- Don’t trust China. China is ASSHOE. (disclaimer: not talking about the people, just talking about the regime). They covered this up and have caused all kinds of death and carnage, both literal and economic. The ripples of this pandemic will be felt for decades.
Chemical most likely. Do they say? Things don't changed at the atomic level easily, and as to a time table t create such change, any infos on this too?
Sounds improbable on the face of it, but they need some physics oriented study here.
I'm addressing this part of your post
When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.
Just so you can understand
Is this a surprise? Not to think it even possible
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...ronavirus-social-distancing-to-last-18-months
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...ronavirus-social-distancing-to-last-18-months
"It's part of the transfer job
Hemoglobin from RBCs is responsible for oxygen transfer through your blood vessels all around your body and oxygen molecules attach the heme(Fe) group of hemoglobin protein. In fact the special physical form of this molecule which is ferrous (Fe2+) allow it to transfer oxygen molecules. When an oxygen molecule binds to hemoglobin it temporarily transfers to the ferric form (Fe3+). So when a hemoglobin oxidizes to the ferric form there will be no place for oxygen to bond with."https://biology.stackexchange.com/q...iron-in-the-haem-group-in-the-2-ferrous-oxida
Thats not fully addressing my question. The time? So, chemically its assumed, no argument here."It's part of the transfer job
https://biology.stackexchange.com/q...iron-in-the-haem-group-in-the-2-ferrous-oxida
But how does it retain this state? If it becomes Fe3, it's loaded already to deliver.
What did I mess, real question?
I mean, if this is the natural molecular change, then how does the iron loading occur?
I am not a biologist. If you would like to research the inner workings of the human body, be my guest.
It's obviously time to move on past these ideas. The easiest thing to see is never mentioned, and they look like fools mentioning societal direction.
Are we just to forget those who have the antibodies? Are we just going to sit around and just let them live their lives?
Have we no ideas concerning the safety of those not exposed to also get their lives back?
Those only thinking of a narrow minded medical way forwards, they need to understand much.
But, the first thing they need to understand is, it's nothing they've done to turn the cornerbon this.
It's us, the people,who have sacrificed our livelihood to change the direction of the virus, not some drug.
We will find ways, and if these people are that stupid as to us just sitting and waiting on a cure, they either best shut up, or we need smarter doctors.
I'm not directing my responses to the world, just to one particular party here, in our country, and I admit I'm jaded after two failed coup attempts...and we've been telling you guys it's a world wide pandemic and wondered why your side kept trying to pin this on one man, here, in this country.
You are at least partially correct about the problems with the left. I think they are stuck on some old beliefs, etc. But really the biggest problem is they have turned into the old Republicans. The Democratic Part is a huge political machine, that doesn’t actually listen to, or reflect the values of, its base. The Democratic machine is really out of control, grabbing for power, and is it’s own worst enemy. And to be honest, this doesn’t play as well with their base, as that sort of thing does for Republicans.
Clinton and Obama won elections because they were able to inspire their base and relate to common people. But this was in spite of the party, not because of it (more so Obama, as Clinton helped create this thing). It’s like Labron going to the Cavs, just because they won in the short term, doesn’t mean they suddenly became a well run organization.
I could could go on and on about the issues with the left, but would love to hear what you see are the problems with the right? Since you said you do see their own problems.
The godless left and religious right comments also cracked me up. It really is amazing how we latch onto narratives and taking points that are not always based in reality. For instance, Trump is now a God fearing Christian because he is a Republican President, come on. We also see it with economics, it’s like both parties have convinced so many people to vote against their economic interest. Almost all of the working poor I know are huge Republicans and most of the wealthy people I know are Democrats (with exceptions to both of course). Both are voting against their own economic interests. Most of us fall in the middle, but often do this too and many honestly don’t know they are doing it because of the stereotypes and narratives pushed. I think it is getting worse, too with the “eco chamber” of social media. People just keeping hearing the same thing and reinforcing what they already believe and creating such extreme identity politics.
It just sounds redundant on its face.
I'm sure, if there's anything to this, or, is but part of the bigger whole of the bodies and viruses interactions, which I suspect, and this may be not seen in the correct light, these findings, we will soon know.
- Status
