Covid 6.0

[jflores]

Also to be fair, the Administration has indicated it does intend to get back to normal as soon as it can. So there's one guidepost. You know its going to accept risk at certain places in the process, be it amount of testing or reliability of testing or whatever. It has talked about, creating some process of clearing people who have already had it and recovered, being allowed to go back to work to save as much of the economy as we can, pretty much at this point without much fear of re-infection. Whether that means we show up in a phone app, a govt database, wearing a wrist band, whatever (Edit: hell a doctors note), I don't know. It could just be age or geographic related. But certainly Trump feels that 300+ million people don't need to sit at home.

But the Administration has left itself some backtracking room. When it removed the Easter date, the next date he specifically mentioned was June 1 pertaining to recovery. That allows him to go back and re-extend social distancing into May without moving a guidepost, if need be.

 

[planored]

Depends on just how sick I am. If it’s as AJ attempt to avoid intubation, absolutely.

I think I’d prefer to be given Remdesivir if given a choice as it actually has proven efficacy with other coronaviruses.

Not saying there aren’t other potential helpful drugs. But HCQ has been effective. Yes some possible side effect can be stomach issues but not death. Many countries that have HCQ for malaria have very low numbers of Covid-19 cases, see Africa

 

[GBRforLife1]

That’s one regional store, WalMart hasn’t done anything, our local grocers and gas stations have done nothing. We’re locked down and people are still doing dumb stuff, people with symptoms going to WalMart to shop.

Then are you really "locked down?"

 

[planored]

The other side of this the Left trying to tie Trump to this drug, I guarantee he had never heard of this before now. If you didn’t have RA or Lupis you probably haven’t either.

 

[dinglefritz]

I don’t know, some people pretty up in arms in this thread about Rachel Maddow’s craziness. Not sure they would have reacted real well to finding out Obama was taking policy advice from her.

You don't think Obama knew what was being said on PMSNBC? How naive are you?

 

[headcard]

You don't think Obama knew what was being said on PMSNBC? How naive are you?

I do not believe he was taking advice from them, no. If you do you are another crazy conspiracy theorists.

 

[planored]

Maddow has been wrong for 4 years, wtfu people.

 

[dinglefritz]

I do not believe he was taking advice from them, no. If you do you are another crazy conspiracy theorists.

Good Lord. Taking a phone call from Tucker Carlson isn't a big deal. Get over it. He was just one more voice in a President's ear and from my perspective he's a damned smart one whether we like him or not.

 

[jmliehr]

Then are you really "locked down?"

Is anybody then?

https://www.springfieldmo.gov/DocumentCenter/View/48517/Stay-at-Home-Redlined


Any Essential Business, as defined in this Order, that is engaged in retail sales to the public shall limit the number of customers in any particular retail location at any one time to a maximum of:
1. The result of the total square feet of the building at the retail location divided by 30
a. Times twenty-five (25) percent for a retail location with square footage of less than ten thousand square feet (10,000 ft2);
b. Times ten (10) percent for a retail location with square footage of ten thousand square feet (10,000 ft2) or more.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Is anybody then?

.

That's my point. They're not.

 

[dinglefritz]

Is anybody then?

https://www.springfieldmo.gov/DocumentCenter/View/48517/Stay-at-Home-Redlined


Any Essential Business, as defined in this Order, that is engaged in retail sales to the public shall limit the number of customers in any particular retail location at any one time to a maximum of:
1. The result of the total square feet of the building at the retail location divided by 30
a. Times twenty-five (25) percent for a retail location with square footage of less than ten thousand square feet (10,000 ft2);
b. Times ten (10) percent for a retail location with square footage of ten thousand square feet (10,000 ft2) or more.

Basically that just say allow 30 square feet per customer in the store. That isn't a big deal. Very easy to meet that restriction.....well unless the Dollar Store puts 2 Liter bottles of Mellow Yellow on sale....

 

[jmliehr]

Will be interesting to see what happens to hospitals even that don’t see the spike, local hospital has closed all non-essential procedures and has seen their no show rate jump from 20% under normal circumstances to 60% starting in mid/late March for routine visits. They are taking webcams from anywhere they can find them to switch to virtual visits.

 

[RaisingArizona]

Not saying there aren’t other potential helpful drugs. But HCQ has been effective. Yes some possible side effect can be stomach issues but not death. Many countries that have HCQ for malaria have very low numbers of Covid-19 cases, see Africa

Has it been effective? Every American Dr. that has been using it in hospitals has said that we are hopeful but we don’t know.

There does seem to be anecdotal evidence that provides reason for hope. I just think that if I had the choice I’d go for the drug with actual peer reviewed efficacious data for other coronaviruses.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Not saying there aren’t other potential helpful drugs. But HCQ has been effective. Yes some possible side effect can be stomach issues but not death. Many countries that have HCQ for malaria have very low numbers of Covid-19 cases, see Africa

Recent study showed it had no effect on late term patients. That one was released recently, from France. Only had 11 patients so not particularly reliable, but there have been a number of other similar studies that have shown it isn't effective in very sick patients with a lot of co-morbidities. There is actually evidence that it might be deleterious...the word the study used. Other non-experimental studies have shown that you need to take it early on....before severe symptoms...which begs the question. If you don't have severe symptoms should you be taking a drug that might be dangerous and have bad side effects and is needed by people for other ailments? People will drink silver so I suppose this stuff is better than that...but then again maybe not

 

[dinglefritz]

Will be interesting to see what happens to hospitals even that don’t see the spike, local hospital has closed all non-essential procedures and has seen their no show rate jump from 20% under normal circumstances to 60% starting in mid/late March for routine visits. They are taking webcams from anywhere they can find them to switch to virtual visits.

My wife usually sees 25 or so pulmonary patients/day in clinic. Last week one day she saw 4 but put in a 10 hour day with 90% of it on the phone. Then there were the normal hospitalized vent patients to deal with. Of course she doesn't get paid for phone consultations but she's doing it to try to help her patients. They've cut hours dramatically for staff and the first quarter physician draw was eliminated. More large hospital system takeovers coming to a town near you.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Where do you get that 48% of the U.S. has hypertension. I don't believe that. Again, the VAST majority of people who are obese and who have some degree of hypertension are NOT severely affected enough for it to impact the course of disease with COVID-19. The degree of your underlying disease plays a HUGE part in your ability to survive a serious illness. Just being somewhat overweight wouldn't be a big deal if it hadn't caused other cardiac or pulmonary issues already. IF you're morbidly obese, have atherosclerosis and hypertension...well nice knowing ya.

BTW BMI is a HORRIBLE indicator of pulmonary health and moderate obesity. I'm 6' and weigh roughly 170 and at time I had my insurance check I was told I fell in the "obese" range. WTF. I was ripped at that time. I was doing 20 mile round trip day hikes with a 3000 ft elevation change. Yeah I was obese.

Dude I am just going off of the studies...they used BMI in the studies and 30 seems to be a strong cutoff...the news represents slightly obese people as healthy. They aren't. If you were obese at 6 foot you would need to pack on 50 more pounds and I assume you would think you were unhealthy. I forgot that the study was split by sexes...47% of men have hypertension...but the critical mortality didn't seem to depend on sex, or age, but BMI...if you want the studies I can find them...I've put up a number of scientific reports and since it isn't a 2 line tweet from the prez or have crap or drivel in it, the geniuses on this board just skip over it.

 

[jmliehr]

Basically that just say allow 30 square feet per customer in the store. That isn't a big deal. Very easy to meet that restriction.....well unless the Dollar Store puts 2 Liter bottles of Mellow Yellow on sale....

Times .25 for stores under 10k or .1 for stores over 10K

So 75 in a 9K sq ft store or 1 per 120 square feet.
Or 140 in a 42k square foot grocery store or 1 per 300 square feet.

 

[dinglefritz]

Dude I am just going off of the studies...they used BMI in the studies and 30 seems to be a strong cutoff...the news represents slightly obese people as healthy. They aren't. If you were obese at 6 foot you would need to pack on 50 more pounds and I assume you would think you were unhealthy. I forgot that the study was split by sexes...47% of men have hypertension...but the critical mortality didn't seem to depend on sex, or age, but BMI...if you want the studies I can find them...I've put up a number of scientific reports and since it isn't a 2 line tweet from the prez or have crap or drivel in it, the geniuses on this board just skip over it.

Again. BMI is not a good index. It's commonly used but the cut off lines were designed for inactive people without any muscle mass.

 

[jmliehr]

My wife usually sees 25 or so pulmonary patients/day in clinic. Last week one day she saw 4 but put in a 10 hour day with 90% of it on the phone. Then there were the normal hospitalized vent patients to deal with. Of course she doesn't get paid for phone consultations but she's doing it to try to help her patients. They've cut hours dramatically for staff and the first quarter physician draw was eliminated. More large hospital system takeovers coming to a town near you.

There should be some reimbursement for phone visits, but it’s minuscule at $10-$15 where video can be much higher. Now I am talking about a specific Medicare Advantage reimbursement for that data...so it may not translate.

And yes, the vultures will be circling.

 

[dinglefritz]

Times .25 for stores under 10k or .1 for stores over 10K

So 75 in a 9K sq ft store or 1 per 120 square feet.
Or 140 in a 42k square foot grocery store or 1 per 300 square feet.

Ok. The way you posted it confused me. Even so, 120 square feet is even more room and it should be easy to maintain your personal space. I can't tell you how many times I've had to enforce the space rule with friends who are very smart people. I just put up my hand with the palm facing them and they inevitably say "oh yeah".

 

[planored]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/2955430001

 

[dinglefritz]

There should be some reimbursement for phone visits, but it’s minuscule at $10-$15 where video can be much higher. Now I am talking about a specific Medicare Advantage reimbursement for that data...so it may not translate.

And yes, the vultures will be circling.

I don't think her clinic even tries to collect that. I could be wrong. Still the phone call takes about as much of her time as an in person visit. The nurse can answer alot of the questions in the clinic. Of course then the other factor is that you can't put a stethoscope on the phone ear piece and listen to somebody's chest.

 

[RedMyMind]

This economic and social outcome can be likened to the Vietnam War. We like to think it helped, but we really don't know how much.
An intentional negative outcome/sacrifice for a hypothetical.

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

That's because youre beyond terrible at math.

Well....let's see here....

Let's say we have a doubling rate on deaths every 15 days....which would be way slower than we're at right now......

So, on 4/21, we are at 20,000 deaths. On 5/6, that would put us at 40,000......80,000 on 5/21.....

 

[planored]

Recent study showed it had no effect on late term patients. That one was released recently, from France. Only had 11 patients so not particularly reliable, but there have been a number of other similar studies that have shown it isn't effective in very sick patients with a lot of co-morbidities. There is actually evidence that it might be deleterious...the word the study used. Other non-experimental studies have shown that you need to take it early on....before severe symptoms...which begs the question. If you don't have severe symptoms should you be taking a drug that might be dangerous and have bad side effects and is needed by people for other ailments? People will drink silver so I suppose this stuff is better than that...but then again maybe not

would you take it if you had covid-19 and in hospital

 

[headcard]

Good Lord. Taking a phone call from Tucker Carlson isn't a big deal. Get over it. He was just one more voice in a President's ear and from my perspective he's a damned smart one whether we like him or not.

I feel it is and I also think reaching out to Alex freaking Rodriguez for advice is beyond idiotic too. If it wasn’t Trump and say Obama was asking Rachel Maddow and Cam Newton to run the country, then I bet you would feel the same.

 

[dinglefritz]

I feel it is and I also think reaching out to Alex freaking Rodriguez for advice is beyond idiotic too. If it wasn’t Trump and say Obama was asking Rachel Maddow and Cam Newton to run the country, then I bet you would feel the same.

So you really think that Trump reached out to ARod to get advice on COVID-19?

 

[John_J_Rambo]

Well....let's see here....

Let's say we have a doubling rate on deaths every 15 days....which would be way slower than we're at right now......

So, on 4/21, we are at 20,000 deaths. On 5/6, that would put us at 40,000......80,000 on 5/21.....

and on it goes until there's no one left to inhabit the earth

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

I don't know why you act holier than thou when you can't even do math.

You don't know the death rate.

Considering the high number of asymptomatic carriers of this virus it's very likely the true death rate of those who get it is under 1%.

Taking limited confirmed tests and dividing it by a fraudulent number of dead and then parading it as some gotcha number is disingenuous at best but probably more incompetence.

Next you'll try to extrapolated that bullshit 2.9% number and claim 9 million plus are going to die. More incompetence.

Then you'll tell us how we're picking who is going to live and die. Ignoring that old people in poor health die every single day and that until they hijacked the death numbers and started calling it coronavirus 50k were dying on avg every month to pneumonia. You'll also ignore the fact that the vast majority of the dead were over 70 and had other serious health issues.

Why you want to be like this I have no idea. But it isn't reality.

1) No one is acting holier than thou. Don't mistake me disagreeing with you for that.

2) I wasn't, and have not, said that we'd be choosing who is going to die. However, I do believe that this situation could turn into that without some measures taking place.

3) Nor was I going to claim that 9 million are going to die. You really need to calm the f*** down.

4) I realize that we have asymptomatic people around. They're also the ones that are most likely going to get others sick. To me, we need to operate under the numbers we have. I'd rather error in that direction than in the direction you seem to prefer.

I am going to ask you the same thing I have asked others, and haven't gotten an answer on.....

1) Let's say you catch C19, and due to an underlying condition you are unaware of, you are in rough shape. Are you willing to pass up the use of a ventilator? I'm just wondering, because you have a very flippant attitude about the people that get seriously ill.

2) Are there people that you care about that you're willing sacrifice for the sake of the economy? Feel free to list them for us (title only...no names).

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

and on it goes until there's no one left to inhabit the earth

No...but he is making it sound like there was no way 100,000 could be dead by the end of May, and he questioned my math (and in an insulting manner, no less).

 

[headcard]

So you really think that Trump reached out to ARod to get advice on COVID-19?

But ABC is probably fake news, right?

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

View embedded media

But ABC is probably fake news, right?

I only wonder whether or not it was a "perfect" call.

I've often wondered about that phrase. Do you think it meant he manually dialed the President of Ukraine's number (or A-Rod's, for that matter), and dialed it correctly the first time? I envision him using an old rotary phone, and, upon hearing that it went through, exclaiming, "Perfect!!"

 

[RaisingArizona]

which begs the question. If you don't have severe symptoms should you be taking a drug that might be dangerous and have bad side effects and is needed by people for other ailments?

on April 8th the University of Minnesota will have preliminary double blinded data for Hyrdoxychloroquine’s use as a prophylaxis with the idea being that it could potentially be used to keep HC workers in the fight. That would of course be great. Like you I am skeptical that the Hydroxychloroquine combo will be the go to therapy. We shall see.

 

[yort2000]

Covid is only beaten because of the lockdown...it spread slowed enough that the current lockdown can keep it managed. Sadly there aren't many examples of places who haven't taken measures so we can definitively prove that a lockdown is needed. It is also important to remember that covid will HAVE to infect a certain % of the population at some point. And it is apparently very bad for people with comorbidities or obese people. Which makes up a majority of America. I would equate Brooklyn with the rest of America looking at health data, irregardless of density. Rural folk are sick, careless, and they gather together...except their hospital might be 30 miles away and have 2-10 ventilators. You had to predict that both sides would be validated by a lockdown...the cases would be lower than predicted AND the people who didn't want a lockdown would point to the cases being lower. One side is right but the loud and mean normally win.

Perspectives on the Pandemic Episode 2: In this explosive second edition of Perspectives on the Pandemic, Professor Knut Wittkowski, for twenty years head of The Rockefeller University's Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design, says that social distancing and lockdown is the absolutely worst way to deal with an airborne respiratory virus. Further, he offers data to show that China and South Korea had already reached their peak number of cases when they instituted their containment measures. In other words, nature had already achieved, or nearly achieved, herd immunity.

 

[RaisingArizona]

View embedded media

But ABC is probably fake news, right?

we both know that The Donald was just hoping to have phone sex with J-Lo.

 

[GBRforLife1]

1) No one is acting holier than thou. Don't mistake me disagreeing with you for that.

2) I wasn't, and have not, said that we'd be choosing who is going to die. However, I do believe that this situation could turn into that without some measures taking place.

3) Nor was I going to claim that 9 million are going to die. You really need to calm the f*** down.

4) I realize that we have asymptomatic people around. They're also the ones that are most likely going to get others sick. To me, we need to operate under the numbers we have. I'd rather error in that direction than in the direction you seem to prefer.

I am going to ask you the same thing I have asked others, and haven't gotten an answer on.....

1) Let's say you catch C19, and due to an underlying condition you are unaware of, you are in rough shape. Are you willing to pass up the use of a ventilator? I'm just wondering, because you have a very flippant attitude about the people that get seriously ill.

2) Are there people that you care about that you're willing sacrifice for the sake of the economy? Feel free to list them for us (title only...no names).

1. Then we disagree.
2. You have, multiple times.
3. Who knows what you're going to claim, you can't do math.
4. All your arguments are void if you're going to use less than the best info. Purposely using the wrong information is idiotic. It also sounds like retarded modelers who contributed significantly to this mess. So it is incompetence.
1v2. Why would I need to? Straw man much? In case you haven't noticed, no matter what that moron in New York screams on the tv, we have enough ventilators.
2v2. There is no sacrificing. No one needs to go into the volcano. It's natural selection. People die every day. But again another bullshit straw man argument.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Perspectives on the Pandemic Episode 2: In this explosive second edition of Perspectives on the Pandemic, Professor Knut Wittkowski, for twenty years head of The Rockefeller University's Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design, says that social distancing and lockdown is the absolutely worst way to deal with an airborne respiratory virus. Further, he offers data to show that China and South Korea had already reached their peak number of cases when they instituted their containment measures. In other words, nature had already achieved, or nearly achieved, herd immunity.

View embedded media

I'd bet NYC metro has already achieved it as well. It's the only logical answer for such a sharp drop.

 

[Hastings4Huskers]

So you really think that Trump reached out to ARod to get advice on COVID-19?

yeah his statement was exptremely dense and just looking for a reason to muddy the waters. He has bought nothing to the covid topic he is just bashing Trump. That has been all his talking points. Pretty embarrassing.

 

[GBRforLife1]

View embedded media

But ABC is probably fake news, right?

Pretty much every they use "source" or "sources" it's fake.

 

[Huskertransplant]

There should be some reimbursement for phone visits, but it’s minuscule at $10-$15 where video can be much higher. Now I am talking about a specific Medicare Advantage reimbursement for that data...so it may not translate.

And yes, the vultures will be circling.

There needs to be better reimbursement for Medicare and Medicaid in general. The general public does not understand the amount of paperwork that has to be filled out and submitted