Covid 6.0

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chicolby

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What I’m seeing here is a lack of any concrete statements or evaluations. This is what I suspected. If you are team Trump, there’s little that he can do or not do that will convince you that he’s lagged behind where he should be. If you’re team anti-Trump, it seems nothing can be done to convince you - “hey he’s done some good work here”.

that’s why I encourage everyone to have something tangible and measurable - otherwise you’re just cheering for your “team”.
 

RedMyMind

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What I’m seeing here is a lack of any concrete statements or evaluations. This is what I suspected. If you are team Trump, there’s little that he can do or not do that will convince you that he’s lagged behind where he should be. If you’re team anti-Trump, it seems nothing can be done to convince you - “hey he’s done some good work here”.

that’s why I encourage everyone to have something tangible and measurable - otherwise you’re just cheering for your “team”.
I agree.
The whole world's response was delayed and responded poorly.
The WHO and China failed everyone.
 

headcard

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I agree.
The whole world's response was delayed and responded poorly.
The WHO and China failed everyone.
Did you see the article I shared in the last thread about Taiwan’s response? They have only had 200 cases, despite being next door to China. Their schools are open, bars and restaurants are open. factories are open, mass transit is up and running.
 
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oldjar07

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The economy is stale, Trump targeted 3% GDP growth and only got 2.3% in 2019, any semblance of debt reduction or deficit reduction is gone. Wage growth is low, the stock market reflects massive debt issuance and stock buybacks driving the price hikes. We are having to bail industries out that have had years of record profits and failed to plan for the next rainy day.

With that said the market drop was coming anyway, the virus just spooked people to safer targets.
The economy isn't designed to be shutdown. Some of your concerns have some validity such as slow wage growth, but companies not saving enough isn't one of them. In a normal economy, there's more productive things companies should be doing with their assets besides hoarding cash. There's more productive things they should be doing besides stock buybacks too but I'll leave that for another day. There's nothing wrong imo with bailing out companies who have to shutdown due to an extraordinary event, just as long as the people get their share too which is what has happened.
 
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Lincoln100

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The economy is stale, Trump targeted 3% GDP growth and only got 2.3% in 2019, any semblance of debt reduction or deficit reduction is gone. Wage growth is low, the stock market reflects massive debt issuance and stock buybacks driving the price hikes. We are having to bail industries out that have had years of record profits and failed to plan for the next rainy day.

With that said the market drop was coming anyway, the virus just spooked people to safer targets.
US unemployment:

Feb 1, 2020 3.50%
Jan 1, 2020 3.60%
Jan 1, 2019 4.00%
Jan 1, 2018 4.10%
Jan 1, 2017 4.70%
_______________________

New York (CNN Business)Black unemployment fell to a record low in August, helped by a jump in the number of black women on the job.

The unemployment rate for black workers fell to 5.5% from 6%, according to the Labor Department data. The previous record low of 5.9% was set in May 2018.
The unemployment rate for black women fell to a record 4.4% from 5.2% in July. The unemployment rate for black men crept up to 5.9% from 5.8%. But the previous month's rate was a record, so the rate is still near its historic low.
Unemployment among workers who identify themselves as Hispanic or Latino also fell in August to 4.2%, which matched a record low set earlier this year.
________________________

Forbes:

Wage growth is better but seemingly stuck around 3%

Wage growth has taken a step up during Trump’s Presidency, but fell off a bit in 2019. Economists have expected wage growth to be stronger as the economy recovered from the Great Recession, but it seems to be stuck at around 3%.

_________________________

The GDP is not as high as it would have been due to the trade war, but I absolutely think we need to take a stand against China. Also, the Corporations not having enough savings certainly isn't on the President. The deficit bothers me.
 

chicolby

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Not sure. We really don't have much history to pull from. All he can do is provide updates and relief to places that need it in a timely manner.
Maybe a comparison against other western countries? Normalize by per capita?
 

jflores

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It's harder than just metrics. So much of being a good leader is about the image you present, the way you make people feel.

Objectively there's a long list of things that Trump has done that Obama did to a lesser degree, particularly with these omnibus' and the bailouts and quantitative easing. But because Trump has an attitude and a swagger that his base on the right likes (rather than the measured PC approach of his forebear), they accept it as a masterstroke of pure leadership (for the most part, there are still conservative dissenters of these moves). When Obama did it, it was traiterous to the patriot cause. Such is life, people like presentation.

There's a large degree of truth that like QB's, POTUS is a job where you get too much glory but also too much blame. Bravado and self glory is going to amplify that effect. With the economy having been through something like 8 years of expansion before he got into office, there was a large, pretty much certainty that Trump would be overseeing a recession of some sort during his term. He had to know this. His advisers certainly knew this. A smart person would have put some of the bravado aside, but he had to plant his flag and claim the economy (mainly the stock market) was all his own doing. Which is fine, but once you formally take possession of it, it becomes yours on the coming down slide as well. No take-backsies because we are bordering on Depression. (Edit: we might call this his Moos moment, when Moos told the B1G they only had one chance to get us while we were down..he probably regrets that bit of bravado).

So to that end, there's no doubt in my mind that if Reagan were POTUS now, or even Dubya, we'd be in a much better spot vis a vis the national mood. Both had demonstrated they could empathize and rally the troops in a way that is foreign to the current POTUS. With all these restrictions in place, its likely they'd face the same objective challenge with the loss of a third of our economy and so forth, but those polls that show the public by and large trusts Fauci and other lower level minions more than the Administration would probably show Dubya/Reagan running ahead or at the very worst, even with Fauci.

Right now we have a POTUS claiming to be a wartime president, who's running like fifth in popularity in his own chain of command. Not a great spot to be in. (Edit: Historically, Caesar would have probably killed all the other competitors to make sure he wasn't overthrown at this point. Or modern North Korea KJU would do the same. LOL. )
 
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headcard

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for some he would have to resurrect the dead to break even
And for others he could commit murder in broad daylight and it would be OK. Probably why we should move on from discussing his job performance, because it seems so many have dug their heels in and won’t change their stance no mater what actually happens.
 

jflores

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Yes, and NY is the biggest issue. Local government failed terribly.
I mean no one is really killing it and there's articles at the local level where local officials are begging for national, unified response. There were a couple out of Texas today I believe. There's also an article talking about how states are banding together in regions (ND/SD/MN/Wisc) to coordinate restrictions because the federal response has been nada.
 
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mwulf

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True, you don't want a national edict/law/rule coming from Washington, the local leaders need to step up too.
@mwulf , did your friend have special testing before entering the airplane? If so, wonder what our agreements are with these countries.
If not, this needs a change
Not sure I will ask. There definitely needs to be set in stone protocols
 

RedMyMind

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I mean no one is really killing it and there's articles at the local level where local officials are begging for national, unified response. There were a couple out of Texas today I believe. There's also an article talking about how states are banding together in regions (ND/SD/MN/Wisc) to coordinate restrictions because the federal response has been nada.
Less than a month ago NY was saying that ones shouldn't worry about the virus and to go about their lives. They said that they were more than prepared.
 

RedMyMind

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And for others he could commit murder in broad daylight and it would be OK. Probably why we should move on from discussing his job performance, because it seems so many have dug their heels in and won’t change their stance no mater what actually happens.
yes, both are wrong
 
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oldjar07

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Thanks. So do you have measurable metrics that help you define success?
113,000 cases and potentially an exponential climb up from there. Versus near 0 cases if international travel would have been shutdown right away. I'm not blaming him for not doing it and I'm not saying he had all the information or that anybody else would have reacted any differently. He's doing an okay job just like a lot of other world leaders. He's doing a good job at pointing out the problems with past trade agreements we've had and the problems they cause for American workers. I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter. I don't hate Trump like most Democrats do. I don't particularly like Trump, but I don't hate him either and saying that he's doing an okay job doesn't mean I hate him.
 

RedMyMind

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Isnt that kinda where Mississippi is right now?
I haven't checked but I'll take your word for it.
WHO is the biggest issue with all of this. They reacted 2 months too late. Knowing what was going on in China. That is their job and they messed up bigly
 

jflores

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Less than a month ago NY was saying that ones shouldn't worry about the virus and to go about their lives. They said that they were more than prepared.
There's room for multiple dumb asses in the world as I said in the other thread.

The fact that So and So at the local level is screwing up, doesn't abdicate the Feds from their responsbility.
 
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RedMyMind

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There's room for multiple dumb asses in the world as I said in the other thread.

The fact that So and So at the local level is screwing up, doesn't abdicate the Feds from their responsbility.
and yet our Feds reacted quicker than most of the world's. There was no perfect response because the WHO messed up bad.
 

chicolby

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Then the US is doing pretty good if the numbers are accurate.
Below UK, Iran, Spain, Italy
I’m actually just throwing out an option for you. I’m not dictating what you choose. And if that is your choice then we should see how we do when it’s all said and done.
 

jflores

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and yet our Feds reacted quicker than most of the world's. There was no perfect response because the WHO messed up bad.
I'm not saying everything we did was perfect or not perfect. But there's certainly room for improvement.

Guys like Fauci have been ringing this bell for quite a while. Trump has an inherent distrust (as does most of the GOP historically) of the WHO and other international bodies.

If he was waiting for the WHO to make a decision for him over his own team, that's his own error in judgement. He had every bias to disregard them as an entity and move on the like stable genius he says he is.
 
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nwualum

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Feb 16, 2011
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Do any of you really believe any US president could have stopped this from occurring? Ok, maybe Truman would have bombed the virus but that’s about it. Once China hid the severity, there was nothing anyone else could do. That’s why nearly every country in the world is suffering.
 

jflores

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Do any of you really believe any US president could have stopped this from occurring? Ok, maybe Truman would have bombed the virus but that’s about it. Once China hid the severity, there was nothing anyone else could do. That’s why nearly every country in the world is suffering.
People have said explicitly in other threads its not about stopping this from occurring. No one could have. Largely this is much ado about "middling response" vs "great response" although in some cases "poor response".
 
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Baxter48

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Gods country
Did you see the article I shared in the last thread about Taiwan’s response. They have only had 200 cases, despite being next door to China. Their schools are open, bars and restaurants are open. factories are open, mass transit is up and running.
So what is there secret?
 

HamptonHusker

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Feb 4, 2004
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And for others he could commit murder in broad daylight and it would be OK. Probably why we should move on from discussing his job performance, because it seems so many have dug their heels in and won’t change their stance no mater what actually happens.
Depends on who he Is murdering. If it is Pelosi, then yes it is ok.

He would probably go up in the polls ironically.

JK
 

chicolby

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So what is there secret?
Taiwan and other Asian countries (including China) tested like crazy. They made everyone stay home except for trips to get food which were regulated. When you went into a building they took temperatures. If you were high they quarantined or had you get a test. If you tested positive the government paid for your hospitalization for 2 weeks. They didn’t F around and they are seeing the benefits of it now. Beijing has 30 million people. Doubt China’s numbers - as we should, but Beijing has under 1000 cases. That’s astonishing even if they are holding back some numbers. They aren’t nearly as decimated as one would expect.
 

headcard

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John_J_Rambo

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113,000 cases and potentially an exponential climb up from there. Versus near 0 cases if international travel would have been shutdown right away. I'm not blaming him for not doing it and I'm not saying he had all the information or that anybody else would have reacted any differently. He's doing an okay job just like a lot of other world leaders. He's doing a good job at pointing out the problems with past trade agreements we've had and the problems they cause for American workers. I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter. I don't hate Trump like most Democrats do. I don't particularly like Trump, but I don't hate him either and saying that he's doing an okay job doesn't mean I hate him.
Please. This virus didn’t take 5+ months to get here.

There have already been hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cases in the US. Experts have conceded it’s been here since January, probably earlier.
 
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jrhuskerdad

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Please. This virus didn’t take 5+ months to get here.

There have already been hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cases in the US. Experts have conceded it’s been here since January, probably earlier.
For that to be true, then we should have seen a run on ERs in big cities by people with unexplained pneumonia-like symptoms the last couple of months. Has that been the case? Honest question, I don't know. I presume somebody is looking into that.
 
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