Covid 5.0

[headcard]

View embedded media

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https://thehill.com/homenews/media/489191-fauci-media-should-stop-pitting-me-against-trump
“Fauci said that Trump does listen to his expertise and the opinions of other officials on the task force.

"The president has listened to what I have said and what the other people on the task force have said. When I have made recommendations he has taken them," Fauci added. "The idea of just pitting one against the other is just not helpful."

Here he is in his own words trying to justify cutting the pandemic response team.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e70db03c5b63c3b6485325d/amp

Here is an article on how he failed to follow the playbook left for him:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Trump was warned about this and left a global pandemic infrastructure to deal with it and dropped the ball.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487646-ex-obama-official-fires-back-at-trump-obama-left-him-a-global-health?amp

Since you like quotes from Dr. Fauci:


At what point will we stop defending this guy and believing all his nonsense? Some of his followers are like cult members (I am in no way saying you are one of these, but they are exist). They will find some way to blame the governors or Obama or the CDC or China or Hillary. Rather than his own actions and words.

 

[jflores]

Here he is on his own words trying to justify cutting the pandemic response team.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e70db03c5b63c3b6485325d/amp

Here is an article on how he failed to follow the playbook left for him:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Trump was warned about this and left a global pandemic infrastructure to deal with it and dropped the ball.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487646-ex-obama-official-fires-back-at-trump-obama-left-him-a-global-health?amp

Since you like quotes from Dr. Fauci:

View embedded media

At what point will we stop defending this guy and believing all his nonsense? Some of his followers are like cult members, they will find some way to blame the governors or Obama or the CDC or China or Hillary. Rather than his own actions and words.

The cult of Trump is a real thing for sure. Certainly stronger than the cult of Obama was. Most liberals can't stand Obama because he ended up not being progressive enough. I've yet to see hard core Trumpster's give up ground on him not having done everything perfectly or deflect elsewhere.

The latest contortion is what a master economic stroke the bailout is. I suppose if you were a hardcore free market guy, the only thing you really needed to get on board the Bernie plan was Trump selling it to you. At least that seems to be one of the major rifts in GOP land right now, about where did all the conservatism go. Hence #SixTrillion #MAGA

 

[jlb321]

Maybe they could establish a panel of people to look at who should die?

nope - it is a model of physiologic variables + chronic health problems that show what the probability of death is going to be regardless of resources

that is fine - but people need to think in terms of - is it ok if their 20 yo daughter who was involved in a motor vehicle accident now has a 30% mortality because resources are being stretched very thin rather than a 20% mortality under normal circumstances


so your answer to my question about having the collective stones to deal with a pandemic is -- NO

 

[jmliehr]

My two cents...people are doing way to much of the well so and so did a dumb ass thing so that automatically makes my guy the bomb.

No sir, it's quite possible in this world that multiple people are dumb asses at the same time.

I like to rag on Trump because it's fun to rag on the stupid stuff he does and he's such a bravado driven guy knocking him down a peg is pretty much a national past time. That said the various people on the other side of the aisle have also done dumb stuff too and the fact that Trump is not quite cutting the mustard doesn't mean folks are going to turn around and become Biden or Bernie voters.

Fact is virtually everyone involved is getting a wartime bump except Trump's administration. Even though hes running around fifty percent approval he's trailing folks like Fauci by 20-30 points. The only way that happens is if large segments of people in his party don't really think he's doing all that great of a job. It's not "just the libs" like he and his most ardent supporters like to claim. He has a fundamental desire to be liked..it's honestly probably his coping mechanism to think only his political opponents disapprove.

Where Trump ultimately has to be careful if he lets his thin skin in the way too much and starts making this a about the press treatment of him or about his election chances. His lack of empathy vis a vis a Reagan isn't doing him any favors now but if folks think he's completely taken his eye off the ball over an election what little good will be has will go away and the election will become an anyone but Trump thing.

Trump doesn’t have to be careful, Trump’s base is rock solid, people act like they are uncomfortable with the way he acts but they will vote for him, mainly because he represents what they are, and what they desire.

The democrats had years to find the answer, or competitor to Trump. They trotted out Biden, who the Democratic machine feels they owe but won’t bring out voters and Bernie, who couldn’t bear Hillary years ago, let alone Trump, and who can’t draw the support to beat Biden who is a very meh candidate. It is reminiscent of the Dole, Romney or McCain campaigns where they were boring.

The path in 2020 is to win the Big Ten states, if the blue side can energize young voters and minorities to come out and vote in masses, like Obama did. This drive to chase the mythical white swing voter cost Hillary the election, she didn’t play in the Big Ten states that fell to the group that trended towards the brash, boastful buffoon who is in office today. But instead, we’re going to match the idiocy of the 2016 strategy hoping that Biden gets a few more votes? Nobody is excited to vote for Biden, Trump’s base is chomping at the bit for 4 more years.

The hogwash of how this pandemic will shape the election? Myth, 100% unadulterated horse shizz. Trump’s base is locked in, the Dems are killing themselves while Trump can just sit back and laugh.

 

[dinglefritz]

Here he is on his own words trying to justify cutting the pandemic response team.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e70db03c5b63c3b6485325d/amp

Here is an article on how he failed to follow the playbook left for him:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Trump was warned about this and left a global pandemic infrastructure to deal with it and dropped the ball.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487646-ex-obama-official-fires-back-at-trump-obama-left-him-a-global-health?amp

Since you like quotes from Dr. Fauci:

View embedded media

At what point will we stop defending this guy and believing all his nonsense? Some of his followers are like cult members, they will find some way to blame the governors or Obama or the CDC or China or Hillary. Rather than his own actions and words.

This isn't about defending Trump for his "nonsense". It's about realizing that the "playbook" didn't disappear when Trump did what EVERY President does which is reorganize departments and put his people in charge of those departments. 99.9999% of the people who matter were still at the CDC, FDA and DHS. Trump while stating this was a hoax DID in fact listen and start out with a reasonable first step in the China travel ban. YOUR buddies on the left called him a racist for doing that. IMO, he responded accordingly to the progression of events and listened to his advisors at each step. His blame of others IMO is due to the FACT that he's getting unfairly blamed for this when in fact there's little else he could have reasonably done given the situation. He was in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Cuomo did NOTHING for over a week when it was obvious that HE needed to take the steps within his power to slow the spread. They left the freaking bars and restaurants fully open in New York for over a week after they knew they had a serioius problem. That's on Cuomo. Not Trump. I said for over a week BEFORE this broke bigtime in New York that they HAD to shut down mass transit. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's still open.

 

[GBRforLife1]

Maybe they could establish a panel of people to look at who should die?

Did you guys get the reference to death panels?

 

[jflores]

Trump doesn’t have to be careful, Trump’s base is rock solid, people act like they are uncomfortable with the way he acts but they will vote for him, mainly because he represents what they are, and what they desire.

The democrats had years to find the answer, or competitor to Trump. They trotted out Biden, who the Democratic machine feels they owe but won’t bring out voters and Bernie, who couldn’t bear Hillary years ago, let alone Trump, and who can’t draw the support to beat Biden who is a very meh candidate. It is reminiscent of the Dole, Romney or McCain campaigns where they were boring.

The path in 2020 is to win the Big Ten states, if the blue side can energize young voters and minorities to come out and vote in masses, like Obama did. This drive to chase the mythical white swing voter cost Hillary the election, she didn’t play in the Big Ten states that fell to the group that trended towards the brash, boastful buffoon who is in office today. But instead, we’re going to match the idiocy of the 2016 strategy hoping that Biden gets a few more votes? Nobody is excited to vote for Biden, Trump’s base is chomping at the bit for 4 more years.

The hogwash of how this pandemic will shape the election? Myth, 100% unadulterated horse shizz. Trump’s base is locked in, the Dems are killing themselves while Trump can just sit back and laugh.

I would say he's certainly the odds on favorite to win re-election. He certainly has the cult of Trump going for him with the base. But he has a bunch of places he needs in the Rust Belt to hold the line. If he starts picking fights with Michigan over COVID and the folks there get resentful...he may find himself unemployed no matter if the Dems ran a potato (Edit: with Biden they basically are).

 

[dinglefritz]

Did you guys get the reference to death panels?

There's been an informal death panel for years. It's call a Dr and patient relationship which is intertwined with the family. Unfortunately due to the way this thing is going the Dr. is left holding the bag in some cases. At some point it is possible that the CDC might suggest some guidelines on who goes on a vent and who doesn't but make no mistake those choices were being made thousands of times per day before this deal ever broke.

 

[jflores]

Trump doesn’t have to be careful, Trump’s base is rock solid, people act like they are uncomfortable with the way he acts but they will vote for him, mainly because he represents what they are, and what they desire.

The democrats had years to find the answer, or competitor to Trump. They trotted out Biden, who the Democratic machine feels they owe but won’t bring out voters and Bernie, who couldn’t bear Hillary years ago, let alone Trump, and who can’t draw the support to beat Biden who is a very meh candidate. It is reminiscent of the Dole, Romney or McCain campaigns where they were boring.

The path in 2020 is to win the Big Ten states, if the blue side can energize young voters and minorities to come out and vote in masses, like Obama did. This drive to chase the mythical white swing voter cost Hillary the election, she didn’t play in the Big Ten states that fell to the group that trended towards the brash, boastful buffoon who is in office today. But instead, we’re going to match the idiocy of the 2016 strategy hoping that Biden gets a few more votes? Nobody is excited to vote for Biden, Trump’s base is chomping at the bit for 4 more years.

The hogwash of how this pandemic will shape the election? Myth, 100% unadulterated horse shizz. Trump’s base is locked in, the Dems are killing themselves while Trump can just sit back and laugh.

Trump's next political trick is to navigate the Easter economic waters. He's more or less planting a flag there about getting the US back to work, when he only has limited power to put the US back to work. Maryland will be under shelter-in-place as will several other states (edit: most of these shelter orders likely wouldn't end until the end of April). These states on the edge are going to have to figure out if they are going to try Trump's back-to-work thing or go the more conservative route and shut down.

The economy could come roaring back on the 12th. It could sputter. It could continue to flatline and fall and a good portion of it he can only watch and Tweet about. But there's a better than average chance this is his most high profile "Mission Accomplished" moment (ala Dubya and the Aircraft carrier thing in Iraq).

There's a quite good chance that we have another round of stimulus, as others have said, buying our way out of the recession could in the worst case double our overall debt. That's probably not ringing real well with the conservatives who are stinging from this $6 trillion business.

 

[kaz36]

Here he is in his own words trying to justify cutting the pandemic response team.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e70db03c5b63c3b6485325d/amp

Here is an article on how he failed to follow the playbook left for him:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Trump was warned about this and left a global pandemic infrastructure to deal with it and dropped the ball.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487646-ex-obama-official-fires-back-at-trump-obama-left-him-a-global-health?amp

Since you like quotes from Dr. Fauci:

View embedded media

At what point will we stop defending this guy and believing all his nonsense? Some of his followers are like cult members (I am in no way saying you are one of these, but they are exist). They will find some way to blame the governors or Obama or the CDC or China or Hillary. Rather than his own actions and words.

I tend to believe someone who was actually involved with the process(the person who wrote the article I shared) about what actually happened. According to them is was a part of the process of cutting the fat in a bloated NSC and offices were merged instead of cut.

Also, you share a link about ignoring a playbook left for him, but within your link there is this statement:


An NSC official confirmed the existence of the playbook but dismissed its value. “We are aware of the document, although it’s quite dated and has been superseded by strategic and operational biodefense policies published since,” the official said. “The plan we are executing now is a better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons learned from the playbook and the most recent Ebola epidemic in the [Democratic Republic of the Congo] to COVID-19.”

A health department spokesperson also said that the NSC playbook was not part of the current coronavirus strategy. “The HHS COVID-19 response was informed by more recent plans such as the foundation of the National Biodefense Strategy (2018), Biological Incident Annex (2017),and panCAP (2018) among other key plans provided by the CDC, White House Task Force, FEMA, and other key federal departments and agencies,” the spokesperson said.

So it seems like they have developed their own plan, which they think is better suited to fight this virus. Is it right or is it wrong? I don’t know and neither does anyone on this board. Every administration wants to develop their own plan and there’s nothing wrong with that. Why should they trust a plan from a prior administration when it is their reputation on the line? I don’t give two shits about Trump. There is a lot of misinformation coming out on both sides of this. I’m just correcting what I believe.

 

[jlb321]

There's been an informal death panel for years. It's call a Dr and patient relationship which is intertwined with the family. Unfortunately due to the way this thing is going the Dr. is left holding the bag in some cases. At some point it is possible that the CDC might suggest some guidelines on who goes on a vent and who doesn't but make no mistake those choices were being made thousands of times per day before this deal ever broke.

correct - this is a very time consuming conversation that can stretch out for several days/weeks
we might not have that luxury

too often no conversations of this nature have taken place prior to being transferred to an ICU

and ultimately if the family and patient desire full aggressive measures despite a very unfavorable prognosis because grandma is a "fighter" - full aggressive measures are provided

in many cases we treat out pets with more compassion at the end of life than many family members

 

[jmliehr]

Trump while stating this was a hoax DID in fact listen and start out with a reasonable first step in the China travel ban.

The China travel ban was a farce, airlines were already cutting flights and it didn’t ban US citizens, permanent residents or their families. There was no effort to track the 300,000 people in the prior month that had entered from China. We also didn’t do enough on European travel restrictions, most cases in my area are traced to people coming from Italy and being spread across the community.

 

[jflores]

I tend to believe someone who was actually involved with the process(the person who wrote the article I shared) about what actually happened. According to them is was a part of the process of cutting the fat in a bloated NSC and offices were merged instead of cut.

Also, you share a link about ignoring a playbook left for him, but within your link there is this statement:


An NSC official confirmed the existence of the playbook but dismissed its value. “We are aware of the document, although it’s quite dated and has been superseded by strategic and operational biodefense policies published since,” the official said. “The plan we are executing now is a better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons learned from the playbook and the most recent Ebola epidemic in the [Democratic Republic of the Congo] to COVID-19.”

A health department spokesperson also said that the NSC playbook was not part of the current coronavirus strategy. “The HHS COVID-19 response was informed by more recent plans such as the foundation of the National Biodefense Strategy (2018), Biological Incident Annex (2017),and panCAP (2018) among other key plans provided by the CDC, White House Task Force, FEMA, and other key federal departments and agencies,” the spokesperson said.

So it seems like they have developed their own plan, which they think is better suited to fight this virus. Is it right or is it wrong? I don’t know and neither does anyone on this board. Every administration wants to develop their own plan and there’s nothing wrong with that. Why should they trust a plan from a prior administration when it is their reputation on the line? I don’t give two shits about Trump. There is a lot of misinformation coming out on both sides of this. I’m just correcting what I believe.

I can offer some insight.

Normally with government planning, folks are familiar with the "off the shelf" plans the Pentagon has ready to go in case of a war or disaster or whatever. These get debated ad nauseam in the public sphere.

What ends up happening in reality though, is no commander is going to use an "off the shelf" plan because he didn't have a hand in creating it. So "off the shelf" plans get tossed and re-worked so that the current commander feels good it has his name on it.

In 99.9% of the cases, the thing he put his name on and the thing he threw out are one and the same. It just cost an extra billion dollars and 30 days to make.

Having dealt with the NSC (but not really public health agencies) I'm guessing that's more or less what's happening here. More pretending something is all new and relevant BS.

 

[jflores]

The China travel ban was a farce, airlines were already cutting flights and it didn’t ban US citizens, permanent residents or their families. There was no effort to track the 300,000 people in the prior month that had entered from China. We also didn’t do enough on European travel restrictions, most cases in my area are traced to people coming from Italy and being spread across the community.

There were at least one, if not a few articles on Breitbart about how the ban was a farce early on, flights from Asia were still landing in the country but not being announced.

There's other similar sorts of transparency going on now with the economy, as the Administration is having states stop reporting unemployment daily. I linked a Columbus Dispatch article in one of these threads.

 

[dinglefritz]

Doctors get paid tons of money. We should expect better results, not excuses.

37 Drs in Italy lost their life to this virus in just a couple of weeks. I expect we'll lose a similar number and maybe a hundred nurses. And yet they work 70-80 hours per week in a crisis like this trying to help people....... They're not just doing it for the money.

 

[RedMyMind]

The China travel ban was a farce, airlines were already cutting flights and it didn’t ban US citizens, permanent residents or their families. There was no effort to track the 300,000 people in the prior month that had entered from China. We also didn’t do enough on European travel restrictions, most cases in my area are traced to people coming from Italy and being spread across the community.

 

[jflores]

37 Drs in Italy lost their life to this virus in just a couple of weeks. I expect we'll lose a similar number and maybe a hundred nurses. And yet they work 70-80 hours per week in a crisis like this trying to help people....... They're not just doing it for the money.

I find it strange that people still don't realize that spending tons of money doesn't always net you better results.It often times can, but its not a sure thing.

We spent a ton of money, as well as blood and other things to win WW2, yet it was very possible, even at a late stage to have lost that war.

Just because you blow $10 million on a coach, doesn't mean you'll get that NC... see Harbaugh, Jim.

 

[DudznSudz]

Meanwhile...


https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/politics/fact-check-coronavirus-briefing/index.html

 

[jflores]

I'll always maintain that Callahan and BoPeep would make the best COVID response team.

 

[kaz36]

I find it strange that people still don't realize that spending tons of money doesn't always net you better results.It often times can, but its not a sure thing.

We spent a ton of money, as well as blood and other things to win WW2, yet it was very possible, even at a late stage to have lost that war.

Just because you blow $10 million on a coach, doesn't mean you'll get that NC... see Harbaugh, Jim.

Definitely agree with this.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

This is precisely what I've been referring to for weeks. Trump has minimized this virus from the beginning. And what does that do? Creates careless fools like Rambo and GBRforLife, that listen to Trump's garbage and become indoctrinated.

So it doesn't matter if you have taken this virus seriously from the outset and have looked out for others and yourself. You have f'ing morons like these 2 out there that are taking their cues from Trump, and they'll get themselves and others killed. In that regard Trump has become more dangerous to the American people than anything I've seen during my lifetime.

The WHO was saying January 29th, praising china, that how great a job of how china has contained the virus.
You want to talk downplaying? Really? Prior to that the WHO was saying it couldn't be spread person to person.
So, the worlds so called leader in such things, was saying how little effect this is having since china was supposedly doing such a great job, 29th January, two days later, yes,two days later, Trump shuts down all travel from china, where he's labeled a racist.
Put youre context into context, express true facts, then give an opinion

 

[headcard]

Meanwhile...


https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/politics/fact-check-coronavirus-briefing/index.html

Very interesting, but I’m sure this will too be dismissed.

 

[dinglefritz]

The China travel ban was a farce, airlines were already cutting flights and it didn’t ban US citizens, permanent residents or their families. There was no effort to track the 300,000 people in the prior month that had entered from China. We also didn’t do enough on European travel restrictions, most cases in my area are traced to people coming from Italy and being spread across the community.

And who knew what a huge problem Italy had until we already had large numbers of carriers in the U.S.? Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy. In reality it was too late on the people who had entered from China. We really needed to shut down ALL air travel but we had thousands of American citizens in Europe most of whom were trying to get home to their families when the shit hit the fan over there. Were we supposed to just leave them there to die? We saw what a cluster f### it was to try to get our people home from China.

I posted very early on in the first thread that we needed to shut down all air, boat and mass transit travel. That really isn't realistic BUT if you wanted to bring the spread to a screeching halt that's what you should have done. You can bitch and moan about how Trump handled this if you want but it accomplishes nothing. There was not a single person in the NYTimes, LATimes, HuffPost, or democrat party who was lobbying to have air travel shut down from any country in Europe. Not one. Meanwhile the idiot Cuomo left open bars, restaurants and mass transit open even though EVERY epidemiologist was advocating social/physical distancing.

 

[GBRforLife1]

37 Drs in Italy lost their life to this virus in just a couple of weeks. I expect we'll lose a similar number and maybe a hundred nurses. And yet they work 70-80 hours per week in a crisis like this trying to help people....... They're not just doing it for the money.

Got a link? I read 50 doctors in italy had been infected, 37 seems like a lot to have died. But some have.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I think Trump's legacy will be a complicated thing. He ran on being a deal-maker, yet we've seen very little deal making out of him. He did that photo op deal very late in his campaign/early on in his presidency to try and save 1000 HVAC jobs in Indiana (which sort of ended up going away anyway) but very little since then.

He seems content to let other people do the deals, and his part of it is to get on Twitter and encourage bipartisanship and tell folks to get something together so he can sign it. That's really not master deal making by any stretch. Based on that early Indiana thing, I think folks though he'd be alot more involved than just signing something. Breitbart has been one of his strongest supporters and are filled with Trumpsters for sure, and the big knock against him from his own people is his uncanny ability to backtrack and just sign anything Pelosi and McConnell put in front of him.

Arguably, he's been the biggest weapon against himself because of that. He doesn't have many legislative victories, and most of those were written by Pelosi in the various omnibus that he signed. The only very clear win has been judges, which is honestly probably enough to justify casting the vote for him for many Republicans.

How long did nafta take? Look it up,look at the cooperative efforts across our government for helps when nafta was created. Trump did this, no fanfare, nowhere near the cooperative efforts.
As far as things our government should be cooperating amongst itself?
Yes, of course he encourages this.
Lets move to nato

Did you know so many deadbeats existed in nato? No? Did Trump get praise by asking those countries to ,get ready for it,pay their fair share? And not put the makeup costs of those deadbeat countries on the backs of the american taxpayer?
There's more, if they weren't so downplayed, or scrutinized or just completely minimally covered and dropped as soon as the next attack became front page news.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

And who knew what a huge problem Italy had until we already had large numbers of carriers in the U.S.? Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy. In reality it was too late on the people who had entered from China. We really needed to shut down ALL air travel but we had thousands of American citizens in Europe most of whom were trying to get home to their families when the shit hit the fan over there. Were we supposed to just leave them there to die? We saw what a cluster f### it was to try to get our people home from China.

I posted very early on in the first thread that we needed to shut down all air, boat and mass transit travel. That really isn't realistic BUT if you wanted to bring the spread to a screeching halt that's what you should have done. You can bitch and moan about how Trump handled this if you want but it accomplishes nothing. There was not a single person in the NYTimes, LATimes, HuffPost, or democrat party who was lobbying to have air travel shut down from any country in Europe. Not one. Meanwhile the idiot Cuomo left open bars, restaurants and mass transit open even though EVERY epidemiologist was advocating social/physical distancing.

The 'leaders' in Italy encouraged Italians to hug Chinese during 'their' chinese struggles with 'their' problem, going on in china. As they came back from their chinese newyears.

 

[headcard]

This isn't about defending Trump for his "nonsense". It's about realizing that the "playbook" didn't disappear when Trump did what EVERY President does which is reorganize departments and put his people in charge of those departments. 99.9999% of the people who matter were still at the CDC, FDA and DHS. Trump while stating this was a hoax DID in fact listen and start out with a reasonable first step in the China travel ban. YOUR buddies on the left called him a racist for doing that. IMO, he responded accordingly to the progression of events and listened to his advisors at each step. His blame of others IMO is due to the FACT that he's getting unfairly blamed for this when in fact there's little else he could have reasonably done given the situation. He was in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Cuomo did NOTHING for over a week when it was obvious that HE needed to take the steps within his power to slow the spread. They left the freaking bars and restaurants fully open in New York for over a week after they knew they had a serioius problem. That's on Cuomo. Not Trump. I said for over a week BEFORE this broke bigtime in New York that they HAD to shut down mass transit. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's still open.

Of course. The old YOUR friends on the left. Because only someone on the far left could find any fault with the job Trump is doing? Give me a freaking break. The reality is, I actually voted for Trump in 2016, YUGE MISTAKE. At this point, only someone completely indoctrinated by the cult of Trump could choose to ignore every lie and screw up and blame everyone else. Why choose to dig your heels in and make everything about politics, instead of about reality and what is best for the country? I swear some would rather watch the country fail under Trump than admit this isn’t working and won’t work and those of us that voted for him were wrong.

 

[headcard]

Trump doesn’t have to be careful, Trump’s base is rock solid, people act like they are uncomfortable with the way he acts but they will vote for him, mainly because he represents what they are, and what they desire.

The democrats had years to find the answer, or competitor to Trump. They trotted out Biden, who the Democratic machine feels they owe but won’t bring out voters and Bernie, who couldn’t bear Hillary years ago, let alone Trump, and who can’t draw the support to beat Biden who is a very meh candidate. It is reminiscent of the Dole, Romney or McCain campaigns where they were boring.

The path in 2020 is to win the Big Ten states, if the blue side can energize young voters and minorities to come out and vote in masses, like Obama did. This drive to chase the mythical white swing voter cost Hillary the election, she didn’t play in the Big Ten states that fell to the group that trended towards the brash, boastful buffoon who is in office today. But instead, we’re going to match the idiocy of the 2016 strategy hoping that Biden gets a few more votes? Nobody is excited to vote for Biden, Trump’s base is chomping at the bit for 4 more years.

The hogwash of how this pandemic will shape the election? Myth, 100% unadulterated horse shizz. Trump’s base is locked in, the Dems are killing themselves while Trump can just sit back and laugh.

Yep

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

By the way, in foreign relations, that by definition, is laid at the feet of the president, so the two above examples were on him,as it should be. Constitutionally directed, not having one party getting along with another, though he does encourage it. Where they're the ones to write laws, of which he executes them.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Of course. The old YOUR friends on the left. Because only someone on the far left could find any fault with the job Trump is doing? Give me a freaking break. The reality is, I actually voted for Trump in 2016, YUGE MISTAKE. At this point, only someone completely indoctrinated by the cult of Trump could choose to ignore every lie and screw up and blame everyone else. Why choose to dig your heels in and make everything about politics, instead of about reality and what is best for the country? I swear some would rather watch the country fail under Trump than admit this isn’t working and won’t work and those of us that voted for him were wrong.

I don't believe you.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

From a former TDS sufferer.

View embedded media

You, I believe

 

[dinglefritz]

correct - this is a very time consuming conversation that can stretch out for several days/weeks
we might not have that luxury

too often no conversations of this nature have taken place prior to being transferred to an ICU

and ultimately if the family and patient desire full aggressive measures despite a very unfavorable prognosis because grandma is a "fighter" - full aggressive measures are provided

in many cases we treat out pets with more compassion at the end of life than many family members

I've sat with a sister as she died from breast cancer. Kervorkian largely ended the ability of Drs to give increasing doses of pain medicine to terminally ill patients by advocating for ending life on a whim . I totally agree that we treat our animals with more compassion than we do our people at times. Then Dr. Jack changed that dramatically. The freaking grandstander placed it into the public arena. Hospice from my perspective was a horrible ending for my sister. We were allowed to use only oral pain medicine and she couldn't even keep it in her mouth long enough to absorb it. I was wishing she had an IV in so I could put it in her line and let it rip. That was an awful last couple of days for her and us.

 

[jlb321]

compare the US to Europe

https://www.flightradar24.com/36.81,-59.31/4

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

compare the US to Europe

https://www.flightradar24.com/36.81,-59.31/4

I see a helluva lot of airplanes going left over the Atlantic

 

[dinglefritz]

Of course. The old YOUR friends on the left. Because only someone on the far left could find any fault with the job Trump is doing? Give me a freaking break. The reality is, I actually voted for Trump in 2016, YUGE MISTAKE. At this point, only someone completely indoctrinated by the cult of Trump could choose to ignore every lie and screw up and blame everyone else. Why choose to dig your heels in and make everything about politics, instead of about reality and what is best for the country? I swear some would rather watch the country fail under Trump than admit this isn’t working and won’t work and those of us that voted for him were wrong.

The point is that the left is in fact using this crisis to try to regain power. Make no mistake, I don't like Trump. Never have. BUT, the media blitz to place this on his shoulders is wrong. This is a public health crisis which no matter what any President had done would have happened. Period. You weren't going to stop this thing from occurring. You might have delayed it by a week or two but it was already brewing in this country by the time anybody figured out what was going on.

 

[jflores]

How long did nafta take? Look it up,look at the cooperative efforts across our government for helps when nafta was created. Trump did this, no fanfare, nowhere near the cooperative efforts.
As far as things our government should be cooperating amongst itself?
Yes, of course he encourages this.
Lets move to nato

Did you know so many deadbeats existed in nato? No? Did Trump get praise by asking those countries to ,get ready for it,pay their fair share? And not put the makeup costs of those deadbeat countries on the backs of the american taxpayer?
There's more, if they weren't so downplayed, or scrutinized or just completely minimally covered and dropped as soon as the next attack became front page news.

Trump has received kudos for pressuring Allies to meet their defense targets.

But let's be real here, that's about all he's doing. There are two portions to NATO financing, the shared equity to run the HQ (about $2.5 billion dollars) and then each country contributes its military forces (roughly aligned to a minimum of 2% of their GDP).

Trump whined a bunch about how Europe wasn't paying their fair share, and so NATO agreed to cut the US portion of the $2.5 billion from 22% to 16%. Which saves us a whopping $150 million dollars. Which is about the same amount of money we have spent on security and logistics letting him play golf at Mar-a-lago over three years. So that's more or less a wash, unless you consider moving the money from US commanders in Belgium to Florida a huge win.

The agreement to spend 2% of GDP was negotiated in the Obama administration in 2014. You don't have to believe me, you can read the official announcement from the Wales Summit here. Again, while I do appreciate that Trump has been vocal about having Allies meet that requirement, I'm not going to bestow master negotiator kudos to the man who didn't negotiate anything on the matter, and more or less yells are Merkel like I yell at my kids in the hopes something gets done.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I see a helluva lot of airplanes going left over the Atlantic

My guess is, those planes are loaded with europeans telling us how to run our healthcare
Or, it might just be, they're loaded with europeans escaping a worse situation to a better one.

 

[jflores]

My guess is, those planes are loaded with europeans telling us how to run our healthcare
Or, it might just be, they're loaded with europeans escaping a worse situation to a better one.

What happened to our European travel ban?

 

[dinglefritz]

compare the US to Europe

https://www.flightradar24.com/36.81,-59.31/4

Sorry. Can't open that. More flights from U.S.?

 

[jlb321]

Sorry. Can't open that. More flights from U.S.?

a lot of international flights inbound and a lot more flights within our borders than almost any other nation on Earth

some of this may be due to time differences - day v night
but there is still ALOT of air travel currently within the US