Concussions

[Pennsyhusker]

With Tanner in concussion protocol it got me to thinking about the future of football. I read two articles over the past month that are both raising the alarm that football is in danger of dying as a sport because of this issue. One article pointed out that there has been a large drop in the number of kids going out for football in high school. The main reason, based on interviews with parents, is that they think football is unsafe for the brain. The other article was an interview with Bob Costas (who I dislike but he makes sense here) where he says that the concussion issue is going to literally kill the sport of football unless the issue is addressed more seriously.

What technological advances in helmets can be developed to truly protect a player's head? Is that possible? What rules changes are there that might help? We already have targeting rules, but clearly more needs to be done.

Obviously, football is inherently a violent and physical game and it will always carry some risks. But can they be minimized? Rugby players, who wear no helmets at all, suffer far fewer head injuries than American football players. Why?

 

[redfanusa]

At this point I think it is inevitable that football will need to evolve to survive. The days of "slobber knockers" are over. Increasingly they are discovering permanent brain damage in former players, and that will be the death of the sport if they don't address it.

It is never going to be reduced to flag football. There is some injury risk, including concussions, in every sport. But they need to get the risk closer to basketball or baseball, and out of the crash test dummy range. I think it will happen with a combination of advanced gear (even bigger, more protective helmets, face guards, and shoulder pads), rules changes (targeting will be expanded and more heavily enforced), and coaching (changes to tackling technique, players taught to defend themselves better).

 

[swissticuffs]

Yeah, it is a problem that isn't going away. 20 years from now there will still likely be a game called football but it will be like 7 on 7 or rugby.

I'm not sure how you can "address the issue more seriously". At it's core football is a game based on violent collisions.

 

[kaz36]

Technological advances in helmets are what are causing more concussions. The players aren't afraid to use their heads to tackle with helmets. Go back to leather helmets and you will see guys learn to tackle the right way and not use their heads as battering rams.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Technological advances in helmets are what are causing more concussions. The players aren't afraid to use their heads to tackle with helmets. Go back to leather helmets and you will see guys learn to tackle the right way and not use their heads as battering rams.

Probably why rugby players get fewer head injuries.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

In high school, the fake concussions are a much bigger problem than the real ones.

My opinion of course, and only talking about high school football.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Yeah, it is a problem that isn't going away. 20 years from now there will still likely be a game called football but it will be like 7 on 7 or rugby.

I'm not sure how you can "address the issue more seriously". At it's core football is a game based on violent collisions.

Another part of the problem is that the players have all gotten bulked up and huge. Go back to our 71 national title team. "Big Larry Jake" was considered a huge defensive lineman at 275. Most of our guys, including Glover were in the 240-250 range on the line. Same on offense.

 

[anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi]

The fake concussions in high school are a much bigger problem than the real ones in high school.

My opinion of course.

Oh my goodness.

 

[inWV]

Pretty sure my brother suffered a concussion in a JV game when were in HS. Probably I had one as well, the bus ride home was spent with a wicked head ache. He came out of the game for one play, I never left the field.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

In high school, the fake concussions are a much bigger problem than the real ones.

My opinion of course, and only talking about high school football.

Huh? The real concussions aren't the biggest problem? The fake ones are??
Glad you cleared that up. I was getting worried about those kids getting concussions. My bad

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

Huh? The real concussions aren't the biggest problem? The fake ones are??
Glad you cleared that up. I was getting worried about those kids getting concussions. My bad

Kids getting concussions are an issue and always will be. However, the education about concussions and precautionary measures taken before and after an actual concussion are SO much better than they ever were when I/we played. If a kid gets a concussion in high school now, he is very unlikely to see the field for another two weeks. In addition, if a kid gets multiple concussions, he/she is very likely done for the season. Heck, have you seen the measures OPS and Prep and others are taking with their helmets? It's pretty impressive when used correctly.

 

[Hastings4Huskers]

My son was taken off the field by ambulance with an injury to his neck and a concussion. The neck was more or less a stinger but the training staff at his school under went every precaution. I was impressed with how it was handled. They would not let him on the field for almost a month. And the trainer would not even start her concussion protocol until cleared by his Dr. Lots as changed since I played.

 

[Camcon2016]

This topic gives me a headache. Are there more concussions now then there used to be or is advanced detection technology and media coverage just make it seem that way. Maybe it's because there are more kids playing today then there were 20 years ago. I dont know. The number of kids playing recently decreased by about 26,000 but the number of teams increased by 61 last count. It could be video games or some other reason that don't support the agenda causing the decline. I am all for making it as safe as possible and current ptotocols are doing a good job of addressing this issue. A wholesale change in the game of football would be a shame.

 

[TheBeav815]

The game will never be the same. It will survive, but "smash mouth" football is never coming back, IMO. And that's because HS administrations will not want the liability of letting kids go out there and practice running into each other for two hours a night.

It will continue to go the way of "basketball on grass."

It's not just the big hits that are screwing people up. It's the multitude of little hits you take on every play, especially if you're a front-7 guy. Just falling on the ground can give you a small impact of the brain against the skull. No big deal to do it a little bit. But do it hundreds of times a week...

I can only imagine the number of brain-skull impacts guys like the FBs and MLBs of old must have tallied up over a career of running plays with a lead blocker from middle school all the way up through college. Lining up to go smash into the guy in the A gap as hard as you could, bashign your facemask into his chest, then lining up to do it all over again.

Impact when you hit your guy, impact if you hit the ground. Listen to players tell the stories, they talk about how "seeing stars" was an every play thing at some positions.

 

[JJJohnsongs]

I give football 13 years before it is done. First high-schools, then college, then the NFL will fall.

Like TheBeav15 pointed out helmets don't do anything for stopping STEM damage, as damage is from your brain being jostled inside your skull. A quick deceleration cannot be avoided in many sports. Football, soccer, and other sports are in trouble as parents are not going to put their kids in sports that cause long term injuries. Schools aren't going to want to face lawsuits down the road. I love football but the future isn't too bright.

I think we will have to learn to be baseball or basketball fans.

That's why we need Scott Frost now, we don't have much football time left.

 

[CoastGuard2018]

I give football 13 years before it is done. First high-schools, then college, then the NFL will fall.

Like TheBeav15 pointed out helmets don't do anything for stopping STEM damage, as damage is from your brain being jostled inside your skull. A quick deceleration cannot be avoided in many sports. Football, soccer, and other sports are in trouble as parents are not going to put their kids in sports that cause long term injuries. Schools aren't going to want to face lawsuits down the road. I love football but the future isn't too bright.

I think we will have to learn to be baseball or basketball fans.

That's why we need Scott Frost now, we don't have much football time left.

You may be proven to be right but I think the media narrative on this stuff is way ahead of the science at this point. There is way too much that is not known at this point about CTE. There was a recent neurological study suggesting that it may not even be disease. I don't agree with that but I work in a building every day with 20 plus guys who played high school and in some cases college football including me that show no signs of impairment. There are are thousands upon thousands of people who played football throughout our society who are fine. If this stuff is the epidemic that Dr. Omalu's claims how come it doesn't seem to show up in our relatives, neighbors friends and coworkers who played ball. As far as helmets go they say it is impossible to develop a concussion proof helmet but how many times during our lifetimes have they said something is impossible only to have technology overcome it. In short I believe CTE is something that should be aggressively and thoroughly studied but I would caution everyone that there is a lot of money to be made from a civil liability standpoint by pushing this narrative.

 

[redfanusa]

Another part of the problem is that the players have all gotten bulked up and huge. Go back to our 71 national title team. "Big Larry Jake" was considered a huge defensive lineman at 275. Most of our guys, including Glover were in the 240-250 range on the line. Same on offense.

That's a good point. I've often wondered if football teams played more games, or went back to two-way one-platoon rosters, if the shift wouldn't be toward lighter players with a faster recovery time from games. Basketball players can play three games in three days. Baseball can play two in a single day. Tennis, soccer, and track athletes can exert for long periods of time with very little rest. If football played three games a week, the players would have to be smaller and more athletic. I doubt the massive 330-pound guys would be able to cut it. That might cut down on the force of some of these impacts, all other things being equal.

 

[Husk0927]

http://torontosun.com/2017/07/27/co...gist/wcm/34ccbab7-0546-4629-8184-91af40032655

 

[Pennsyhusker]

http://torontosun.com/2017/07/27/co...gist/wcm/34ccbab7-0546-4629-8184-91af40032655

Good article. Thanks. Gives me hope

 

[Camcon2016]

Good article. Thanks. Gives me hope

Good thread. Refreshing change of subject matter.

 

[CPHuskers1]

Good topic. My 12 year old son goes back and forth about wanting to play or not and to be honest I am not heartbroken that he chose not to play with all the studies out. I played through high school and saw stars and got tunnel vision multiple times throughout games and while I think I am ok, it makes you wonder.

I think some interesting reading is the new vcis helmet they are making which initially did not get good reviews from Oregon or Washington in 2016 due to fit but some nfl players are using them now and it will be interesting to see if it helps reduce concussions. It is a soft shell football helmet and some pretty cool videos on YouTube and articles online that talk about the theory behind how it is supposed to help reduce concussions. It makes sense based on the thoughts behind it but I am not an expert at physics nor that smart at science to understand it that much. Haha

 

[250vertical]

With Tanner in concussion protocol it got me to thinking about the future of football. I read two articles over the past month that are both raising the alarm that football is in danger of dying as a sport because of this issue. One article pointed out that there has been a large drop in the number of kids going out for football in high school. The main reason, based on interviews with parents, is that they think football is unsafe for the brain. The other article was an interview with Bob Costas (who I dislike but he makes sense here) where he says that the concussion issue is going to literally kill the sport of football unless the issue is addressed more seriously.

What technological advances in helmets can be developed to truly protect a player's head? Is that possible? What rules changes are there that might help? We already have targeting rules, but clearly more needs to be done.

Obviously, football is inherently a violent and physical game and it will always carry some risks. But can they be minimized? Rugby players, who wear no helmets at all, suffer far fewer head injuries than American football players. Why?

Unlike American Football, in Rugby (and just about every other game) you only 'play the man with the ball'. No blocking. As all know who played, in football anyone wearing a different colored jersey is a target until the whistle is blown. If you miss your assignment, you find someone else to pulverize. Blocking makes comparison to Rugby Union not possible. In Rugby Union the rucks can get dicey, but during tournaments you are able to play 3 or 4 games. Rugby is a much more cardio game so you do not have the massive bodies that you do in football. Football is a game of inches. The tackler must drill the running back with as much direct force as possible to prevent him from any forward gain that could sustain a drive with a first down. There are no first downs in Rugby Union. Unless the movement is inside the 5 yard line (where the hitting can get very nasty trying to prevent a try (touchdown) the defending side tackler is trained to grab and pull the ball carrier down with no regard for giving up a few extra yards.
The death knell for American Football as we know it may be the Purdue study called 'Sub-Concussive Repetitive Shock Syndrome' which in short finds that high school football players (seniors) who have not had a concussion still show some signs of light damage at the end of a season. Relatively light hits still bang the brain against the skull, and repeating this hundreds of time over a season may do the trick. No helmet can prevent this. The closest possible design would be a huge plastic bubble, like old 1950's sci-fi movies, where the head does not touch the helmet at all. Try to get a mom to sign a waiver for her son to play by telling her the damage is only very light. Rockhurst high school in KC, a strong football tradition only a few years ago would typically field over three freshmen teams. They are now just covering two.

 

[CoastGuard2018]

Unlike American Football, in Rugby (and just about every other game) you only 'play the man with the ball'. No blocking. As all know who played, in football anyone wearing a different colored jersey is a target until the whistle is blown. If you miss your assignment, you find someone else to pulverize. Blocking makes comparison to Rugby Union not possible. In Rugby Union the rucks can get dicey, but during tournaments you are able to play 3 or 4 games. Rugby is a much more cardio game so you do not have the massive bodies that you do in football. Football is a game of inches. The tackler must drill the running back with as much direct force as possible to prevent him from any forward gain that could sustain a drive with a first down. There are no first downs in Rugby Union. Unless the movement is inside the 5 yard line (where the hitting can get very nasty trying to prevent a try (touchdown) the defending side tackler is trained to grab and pull the ball carrier down with no regard for giving up a few extra yards.
The death knell for American Football as we know it may be the Purdue study called 'Sub-Concussive Repetitive Shock Syndrome' which in short finds that high school football players (seniors) who have not had a concussion still show some signs of light damage at the end of a season. Relatively light hits still bang the brain against the skull, and repeating this hundreds of time over a season may do the trick. No helmet can prevent this. The closest possible design would be a huge plastic bubble, like old 1950's sci-fi movies, where the head does not touch the helmet at all. Try to get a mom to sign a waiver for her son to play by telling her the damage is only very light. Rockhurst high school in KC, a strong football tradition only a few years ago would typically field over three freshmen teams. They are now just covering two.

They just found CTE in 4 European Soccer players. It's not just football dude.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Unlike American Football, in Rugby (and just about every other game) you only 'play the man with the ball'. No blocking. As all know who played, in football anyone wearing a different colored jersey is a target until the whistle is blown. If you miss your assignment, you find someone else to pulverize. Blocking makes comparison to Rugby Union not possible. In Rugby Union the rucks can get dicey, but during tournaments you are able to play 3 or 4 games. Rugby is a much more cardio game so you do not have the massive bodies that you do in football. Football is a game of inches. The tackler must drill the running back with as much direct force as possible to prevent him from any forward gain that could sustain a drive with a first down. There are no first downs in Rugby Union. Unless the movement is inside the 5 yard line (where the hitting can get very nasty trying to prevent a try (touchdown) the defending side tackler is trained to grab and pull the ball carrier down with no regard for giving up a few extra yards.
The death knell for American Football as we know it may be the Purdue study called 'Sub-Concussive Repetitive Shock Syndrome' which in short finds that high school football players (seniors) who have not had a concussion still show some signs of light damage at the end of a season. Relatively light hits still bang the brain against the skull, and repeating this hundreds of time over a season may do the trick. No helmet can prevent this. The closest possible design would be a huge plastic bubble, like old 1950's sci-fi movies, where the head does not touch the helmet at all. Try to get a mom to sign a waiver for her son to play by telling her the damage is only very light. Rockhurst high school in KC, a strong football tradition only a few years ago would typically field over three freshmen teams. They are now just covering two.

Good info. Thanks. The distinctions you make between Rugby and football explain a lot I think.