Comparing Defensive 2-Deep Talent vs Wisconsin and Iowa..

[Hoosker Du]

This is what I have so far. Read it and weep...and at your own risk. Will update as I finish more teams. It's pretty clear that Chinander better pick it up next year, or more people will be calling for his ass..

Nebraska (Total Defense-107th, Scoring Defense-103rd)

DE-Freedom A. *** (5.6), Kahlil D. **** (5.8)
NT-Carlos D. *** (5.7), Payton N *** (5.7)
DE-Ben S. *** (5.6), Mick S. *** (5.6)
OLB-Tyrin F. *** (5.6), Alex D. ** (5.4)
OLB-Luke G. *** (5.6), Caleb T. **** (5.8)
ILB-Mohamed B. *** (5.5), Collin M. *** (5.7)
ILB-Dedrick Y. *** (5.7), Jacob W. N/A
CB-Lamar J. **** (5.8), Eric L. **** (5.8)
CB-D. Bootle *** (5.5), Cam T. *** (5.5)
S-Aaron W. *** (5.6), Antonio R. ** (5.4)
S-Tre N. ** (5.4), Deonte W. *** (5.7)

4 4-Stars on the 2-Deep
Avg-2.91 stars/player on the 2-Deep


Wisconsin (Total Defense-35th, Scoring Defense-25th)

DE-Loudermilk *** (5.7) Henningsen (No Stars)
NT-Bryson Williams*** (5.5), Roberge (No Stars)
DE-Lyles **** (5.9) Conv. OLine,
Pfaff ** (5.4)
OLB-Van Ginkel ****(5.8)Bell *** (5.7)
ILB-Connelly (No Stars), Sanborn **** (5.8)
ILB-Edwards, *** (5.5), Orr ** (5.4)
OLB-Baun *** (5.5), Johnson (No Stars)
CB-Wildgoose *** (5.7), Harrell, ** (5.4)
SS-Dixon *** (5.6), Pearson *** (5.7)
FS-Nelson *** (5.6), Burrell, *** (5.7)
CB-Hicks *** (5.6), Williams, ** (5.4)

3 4-Stars on the 2-Deep
Avg-2.41 Stars/player on the 2-Deep


Iowa (Total Defense-10th, Scoring Defense-13th)

LDE-Nelson, *** (5.6), Golston, *** (5.6)
LT-Brincks (No Stars) Conv. TE,
Lattimore *** (5.6)
RT-Nelson, *** (5.6), ** (5.4)
RDE-Hesse ** (5.4) Epenesa, ***** (6.1)
LB-Niemann *** (5.6), Barrington *** (5.5)
MLB-Hockaday, *** (5.5),Welch *** (5.5)
WLB-Colbert *** (5.7), Welch *** (5.5)
CB-Brents **** (5.8) Hankins *** (5.7)
SS-Hooker *** (5.6), Milani (No Stars)
FS-Gervase (No Stars), Stone ** (5.4)
RCB-Moss ** (5.3), Ojemudia ** (5.3)

1 5-Star, 1 4-Star on the 2-Deep
Avg-2.5 Stars/player on the 2-Deep

 

[RedMyMind]

this is hardly an indictment of Chins tho

 

[timnsun]

Wonder how those defenses did their first year in the system they are in...

There is something to be said for consistency. For our guys, I think having a revolving door at DC hasn’t helped them much.

I’m not saying Chin is the answer, I’m just saying it may be too soon to tell. And I agree, if there is no improvement next year, more people will be calling for him to be fired.

 

[HuskerWisdom]

Wonder how those defenses did their first year in the system they are in...

There is something to be said for consistency. For our guys, I think having a revolving door at DC hasn’t helped them much.

I’m not saying Chin is the answer, I’m just saying it may be too soon to tell. And I agree, if there is no improvement next year, more people will be calling for him to be fired.

I don't know that anyone can claim that we've had good development or S&C the last few years, and despite the stars, I think it's clear that our roster is made up of more than a few players who are less than what anyone thought

We're all going to want to see progress next year and the year after, but the stars on our 2 deep right now don't tell us much

 

[Hoosker Du]

Wonder how those defenses did their first year in the system they are in...

There is something to be said for consistency. For our guys, I think having a revolving door at DC hasn’t helped them much.

I’m not saying Chin is the answer, I’m just saying it may be too soon to tell. And I agree, if there is no improvement next year, more people will be calling for him to be fired.

Hell, when hasn't Wisconsin been good on defense? And the same holds true for Iowa. And Wisconsin has changed DCs how many times in the last 4 years? Twice? Or is it 3?

The fact is, many of us knew this BS about not having talent is exactly that. Think about it. We have 1/2 a star better talent than Wisconsin on average, and yet, we are 70 spots lower. I understand this being the first year in a new system, but generally defenses are ahead of offenses in terms of picking up new systems, but with us, it's the exception to the rule.

 

[timnsun]

Hell, when hasn't Wisconsin not been good on defense? And the same holds true for Iowa. And Wisconsin has changed DCs how many times in the last 4 years? Twice? Or is it 3?

The fact is, many of us knew this BS about not having talent is exactly that. Think about it. We have 1/2 a star better talent than Wisconsin on average, and yet, we are 70 spots lower. I understand this being the first year in a new system, but generally defenses are ahead of offenses in terms of picking up new systems, but with us, it's the exception to the rule.

Good points, and I guess I had forgotten Wisconsin has gone through DCs recently as well.

Next year will be telling, and the year after May be pivotal to Chin’s time at Nebraska.

 

[kidofSN]

Since when is it harder to change defensive scheme than changing offensive scheme? Actually pretty tired of most of the reasons for the defense being not so good. You cannot tell me there is no talent there. The OL has improved steadily all season and they are no more talented than the personnel on defense. People here insist it takes time due to the changes but I have not found one experienced coach who thinks it should take longer for a defense to learn than the offense if systems change!

 

[Hoosker Du]

I don't know that anyone can claim that we've had good development or S&C the last few years, and despite the stars, I think it's clear that our roster is made up of more than a few players who are less than what anyone thought

We're all going to want to see progress next year and the year after, but the stars on our 2 deep right now don't tell us much

Of course they do. Every team has under and overrated players, based on their stars. We're not unique in that regard. We are what we are, and our talent level is better on paper than the Top 2 teams in the West since it's inception.

I understand S&C, and we need another year to fully assess Chin's abilities, but if we aren't in the Top 50 at the end of next year, I know I'm not the only one that will be making a stink about our DC.

 

[GeauxBigRed]

People are going to have to get used to the fact that while Scott Frost is here, we will never lead in Total Defense or scoring defense. He even said it in his post-game presser. We are going to ask the D to get turnovers and try and hold red zone trips to FGs. For our offense to get in a groove they need the ball and they need snaps. They are willing to give up points trying to get the interception.

It’s utterly pointless to compare our defense to Wisconsin and Iowa’s.

 

[Hoosker Du]

this is hardly an indictment of Chins tho

Then who would you say is responsible for us being 107th and and 103rd in Total and Scoring Defense? Is this Obama's fault? Trump's fault? George W's fault?

I understand that S&C hasn't had quite enough time to get us up to speed, but they should be there by the start of next season. If Chinander is still struggling, Frost has better take note.

 

[HuskerWisdom]

Of course they do. Every team has under and overrated players, based on their stars. We're not unique in that regard. We are what we are, and our talent level is better on paper than the Top 2 teams in the West since it's inception.

I understand S&C, and we need another year to fully assess Chin's abilities, but if we aren't in the Top 50 at the end of next year, I know I'm not the only one that will be making a stink about our DC.

Wiscy's been known for quite some time as a school that does excellent development of their players. They have had a better walk-on program than we have had as of late and they've had some star players on their D who were walk ons originally.

Their issue at DC has been Aranda moving to LSU, but their current guy Leonhard studied with Aranda prior to Aranda moving on. There has beem pretty good consistency of scheme and S&C even with Aranda, Wilcox and now Leonhard

 

[RedMyMind]

Then who would you say is responsible for us being 107th and and 103rd in Total and Scoring Defense? Is this Obama's fault? Trump's fault? George W's fault?

I understand that S&C hasn't had quite enough time to get us up to speed, but they should be there by the start of next season. If Chinander is still struggling, Frost has better take note.

roster issues/previous coaching issues

 

[HuskerWisdom]

roster issues/previous coaching issues

We have a couple of good players on D, but we still have a lot of soft players aren't instinctive or physical on D.

 

[Hoosker Du]

People are going to have to get used to the fact that while Scott Frost is here, we will never lead in Total Defense or scoring defense. He even said it in his post-game presser. We are going to ask the D to get turnovers and try and hold red zone trips to FGs. For our offense to get in a groove they need the ball and they need snaps. They are willing to give up points trying to get the interception.

It’s utterly pointless to compare our defense to Wisconsin and Iowa’s.

Complete BS. I understand that those offenses are going to take more clock to score, but it still doesn't mean that our defense should be in the 100s. Get us on the 1st page, in the Top 50, and we'll be fine, but we have to improve dramatically on defense, next year. There are plenty of teams with fast-paced offenses that have good defenses.

 

[dinglefritz]

Hell, when hasn't Wisconsin not been good on defense? And the same holds true for Iowa. And Wisconsin has changed DCs how many times in the last 4 years? Twice? Or is it 3?

The fact is, many of us knew this BS about not having talent is exactly that. Think about it. We have 1/2 a star better talent than Wisconsin on average, and yet, we are 70 spots lower. I understand this being the first year in a new system, but generally defenses are ahead of offenses in terms of picking up new systems, but with us, it's the exception to the rule.

The key to the sustained mediocre success at Wisconsin has been the continuity of systems. Regardless of who the coach was, Alvarez required that they ran the system. When they had the interloper from Utah State he insisted that he keep the same offense. Their biggest fall off defensively was when they went from the 4-3 to 3-4. According to some of their former players it took them roughly 2 years to master the 3-4 system and that was without a coaching change during that time. I expect us to improve a fair amount during the year next year. We've gotten better this year as the year has gone on IMO.

 

[Hoosker Du]

roster issues/previous coaching issues

I was expecting much better. Try again.

 

[jonskers]

Wiscy's been known for quite some time as a school that does excellent development of their players. They have had a better walk-on program than we have had as of late and they've had some star players on their D who were walk ons originally.

Their issue at DC has been Aranda moving to LSU, but their current guy Leonhard studied with Aranda prior to Aranda moving on. There has beem pretty good consistency of scheme and S&C even with Aranda, Wilcox and now Leonhard

Consistency has been key to that program. The development of their players makes a transition to a new coordinator easier for them. Even though we've outrecruited Wisconsin, the development of our players has been non existent. The upperclassmen on this team have been part of some of the worse defenses we've ever had. Right now we're relying on these players to break old habits and freshman to right a ship that's been going the wrong direction for a while. Listening to the players now, they're bought in. They see the improvment, they want to get better. Maybe the stat sheet isn't significantly better right now, but winning these guys over, and getting them to buy into being better each day is a good first step. Hopefully next year with more time, we start to make bigger strides as a defensive unit.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Wonder how those defenses did their first year in the system they are in...

There is something to be said for consistency. For our guys, I think having a revolving door at DC hasn’t helped them much.

I’m not saying Chin is the answer, I’m just saying it may be too soon to tell. And I agree, if there is no improvement next year, more people will be calling for him to be fired.

I am not sure he is the right guy but making any changes even next year is too soon.

I am most concerned about lack of development and lack of fire in the defense

 

[RedMyMind]

I was expecting much better. Try again.

sorry. You won't find the answer for which you seek

 

[Charlie Marlow]

Wisconsin has stayed with the same system being run by DCs of the same cloth.
Wisconsin did have their struggles when they first implemented their system years back.
So totally different situation.

I’m not saying Chinander is the answer, but I don’t think one can properly evaluate him until year 2 at the earliest.

 

[scarletred]

People are going to have to get used to the fact that while Scott Frost is here, we will never lead in Total Defense or scoring defense. He even said it in his post-game presser. We are going to ask the D to get turnovers and try and hold red zone trips to FGs. For our offense to get in a groove they need the ball and they need snaps. They are willing to give up points trying to get the interception.

It’s utterly pointless to compare our defense to Wisconsin and Iowa’s.

Especially Iowa’s they play a 4-3 and usually are very sound and don’t blitz much other than 1St down at times.They have a tall front 4 that is hard to throw over their hands on short routes..

They also have a differents maker in AJ Epenesa who can rush the edges...

 

[bigredhunter]

Since when is it harder to change defensive scheme than changing offensive scheme? Actually pretty tired of most of the reasons for the defense being not so good. You cannot tell me there is no talent there. The OL has improved steadily all season and they are no more talented than the personnel on defense. People here insist it takes time due to the changes but I have not found one experienced coach who thinks it should take longer for a defense to learn than the offense if systems change!

I wish the defense would have been a major turn around from day one but I’d rather give Chin time instead of hiring a new coach ever year.

 

[Cornicator]

Hell, when hasn't Wisconsin not been good on defense? And the same holds true for Iowa. And Wisconsin has changed DCs how many times in the last 4 years? Twice? Or is it 3?

The fact is, many of us knew this BS about not having talent is exactly that. Think about it. We have 1/2 a star better talent than Wisconsin on average, and yet, we are 70 spots lower. I understand this being the first year in a new system, but generally defenses are ahead of offenses in terms of picking up new systems, but with us, it's the exception to the rule.

Wisconsin has ran the exact same defensive scheme since 2013. This is their 6th full season within that system.

 

[Hoosker Du]

The key to the sustained mediocre success at Wisconsin has been the continuity of systems. Regardless of who the coach was, Alvarez required that they ran the system. When they had the interloper from Utah State he insisted that he keep the same offense. Their biggest fall off defensively was when they went from the 4-3 to 3-4. According to some of their former players it took them roughly 2 years to master the 3-4 system and that was without a coaching change during that time. I expect us to improve a fair amount during the year next year. We've gotten better this year as the year has gone on IMO.

So you're saying that Wisconsin players weren't happy finishing 6th in Scoring Defense and 7th in Total Defense in 2013 in their first year switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4? Wow, maybe we need a bunch of perfectionists too on defense.

 

[nebcountry]

This is what I have so far. Read it and weep...and at your own risk. Will update as I finish more teams. It's pretty clear that Chinander better pick it up next year, or more people will be calling for his ass..QUOTE]

I agree with that completely. Any power 5 team that is in the 100+ worst category has problems.

 

[inWV]

If bad coaching has led to poor player development and coaching turnover has led to inconsistency of approach, by all means lets fire the guy who's been coordinating after a couple of years. Keep going with what works.

 

[RedMyMind]

So you're saying that Wisconsin players weren't happy finishing 6th in Scoring Defense and 7th in Total Defense in 2013 in their first year switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4? Wow, maybe we need a bunch of perfectionists too on defense.

they gave up their share of points against good teams that year

 

[Hoosker Du]

Wisconsin has ran the exact same defensive scheme since 2013. This is their 6th full season within that system.

But they've been good every year running it. I would suspect that this year is their worst year by far. Not to mention that they were 6th in Scoring Defense and 7th in Total Defense in their first year in the 3-4, after switching from the 4-3.

I don't expect miracles from Chinander, but I don't think it's too much to expect to be in the Top 50. I know he'll never be confused with Dave Aranda. I hope Frost expects to be in the Top 50 too, or we are going to be right back where we are this year.

 

[HuskerWisdom]

they gave up their share of points against good teams that year

they are a team that also controls the clock and allows their D a breather. We make things a track meet and put our D into very difficult places. We won't match them in terms of "Scoring Defense and Total Defense" even if our defense is equally effective on a per play basis

 

[Hoosker Du]

they gave up their share of points against good teams that year

You might want to just sit this conversation out. They finished 6th and 7th in their 1st year running the 3-4.

 

[phoenix4nu]

Wisconsin has ran the exact same defensive scheme since 2013. This is their 6th full season within that system.

And recruiting to the system. I think that's just as important.

 

[Hoosker Du]

If bad coaching has led to poor player development and coaching turnover has led to inconsistency of approach, by all means lets fire the guy who's been coordinating after a couple of years. Keep going with what works.

Hmmmm...so our offense can improve to 13th in the nation in 10 games, but it's OK if our defense languishes in the 100s for a couple of years? OoooooK..

 

[HuskerWisdom]

Hmmmm...so our offense can improve to 13th in the nation in 10 games, but it's OK if our defense languishes in the 100s for a couple of years? OoooooK..

who says we are going to languish in the 100's for a few years? And scoring D and total D aren't exactly great measures when comparing teams that have radically different offensive systems

 

[RedMyMind]

You might want to just sit this conversation out. They finished 6th and 7th in their 1st year running the 3-4.

2013 was a weak Big 10. Your argument is terrible and short sighted

 

[husker2612]

This is what I have so far. Read it and weep...and at your own risk. Will update as I finish more teams. It's pretty clear that Chinander better pick it up next year, or more people will be calling for his ass..

Nebraska (Total Defense-107th, Scoring Defense-103rd)

DE-Freedom A. *** (5.6), Kahlil D. **** (5.8)
NT-Carlos D. *** (5.7), Payton N *** (5.7)
DE-Ben S. *** (5.6), Mick S. *** (5.6)
OLB-Tyrin F. *** (5.6), Alex D. ** (5.4)
OLB-Luke G. *** (5.6), Caleb T. **** (5.8)
ILB-Mohamed B. *** (5.5), Collin M. *** (5.7)
ILB-Dedrick Y. *** (5.7), Jacob W. N/A
CB-Lamar J. **** (5.8), Eric L. **** (5.8)
CB-D. Bootle *** (5.5), Cam T. *** (5.5)
S-Aaron W. *** (5.6), Antonio R. ** (5.4)
S-Tre N. ** (5.4), Deonte W. *** (5.7)

4 4-Stars on the 2-Deep
Avg-2.91 stars/player on the 2-Deep


Wisconsin (Total Defense-35th, Scoring Defense-25th)

DE-Loudermilk *** (5.7) Henningsen (No Stars)
NT-Bryson Williams*** (5.5), Roberge (No Stars)
DE-Lyles **** (5.9) Conv. OLine,
Pfaff ** (5.4)
OLB-Van Ginkel ****(5.8)Bell *** (5.7)
ILB-Connelly (No Stars), Sanborn **** (5.8)
ILB-Edwards, *** (5.5), Orr ** (5.4)
OLB-Baun *** (5.5), Johnson (No Stars)
CB-Wildgoose *** (5.7), Harrell, ** (5.4)
SS-Dixon *** (5.6), Pearson *** (5.7)
FS-Nelson *** (5.6), Burrell, *** (5.7)
CB-Hicks *** (5.6), Williams, ** (5.4)

3 4-Stars on the 2-Deep
Avg-2.41 Stars/player on the 2-Deep


Iowa (Total Defense-10th, Scoring Defense-13th)

LDE-Nelson, *** (5.6), Golston, *** (5.6)
LT-Brincks (No Stars) Conv. TE,
Lattimore *** (5.6)
RT-Nelson, *** (5.6), ** (5.4)
RDE-Hesse ** (5.4) Epenesa, ***** (6.1)
LB-Niemann *** (5.6), Barrington *** (5.5)
MLB-Hockaday, *** (5.5),Welch *** (5.5)
WLB-Colbert *** (5.7), Welch *** (5.5)
CB-Brents **** (5.8) Hankins *** (5.7)
SS-Hooker *** (5.6), Milani (No Stars)
FS-Gervase (No Stars), Stone ** (5.4)
RCB-Moss ** (5.3), Ojemudia ** (5.3)

1 5-Star, 1 4-Star on the 2-Deep
Avg-2.5 Stars/player on the 2-Deep

We have the talent to be better at D then we are. Right now it is just to early to know if it is a direct result of Riley or Chin. Probably a bit of both.

 

[Hoosker Du]

who says we are going to languish in the 100's for a few years? And scoring D and total D aren't exactly great measures when comparing teams that have radically different offensive systems

I said a couple years. A couple has always been two.

As a side note, I can't believe how many times I've ordered a couple hamburgers and the drive thru person says "How many would you like?" Ugh.. Too many times to count.

Our offensive system isn't radically different. than many offenses in college football today. There are multiple 1st generation, 2nd generation, and 3rd generation spread offensive systems in college football. Ours is actually somewhat older as compared to some spread systems.

I know one thing...that a defense ranked in the 100s is never good, regardless of offensive system. A defense in the bottom half (65th or lower) isn't even good for a spread system.

 

[Cornicator]

But they've been good every year running it. I would suspect that this year is their worst year by far. Not to mention that they were 6th in Scoring Defense and 7th in Total Defense in their first year in the 3-4, after switching from the 4-3.

I don't expect miracles from Chinander, but I don't think it's too much to expect to be in the Top 50. I know he'll never be confused with Dave Aranda. I hope Frost expects to be in the Top 50 too, or we are going to be right back where we are this year.

I don't understand why I respond to your posts. You seriously manufacture bull shit to fit your absurdist narratives.

Aranda inherited the following defensive players:

- LB Chris Borland- All American, Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year- dude was on his way to NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year before Concussions took their toll
- LB Vince Biegel - - 6 year NFL player - 3 time all Big Ten Player
LB - Joe Schobert - 1st Team All American - Jack Lambert Award Winner- 4 year NFL player, - Led NFL in tackles in 2017.
S- Michael Caputo - 2 time All Big Ten Player
S - Desmend Southward - 5 year NFL Player, 4th round Draft Pick.
CB - Sojourn Shelton - 2 Time All Big Ten player, 3 year NFL career
NT - Beau Allen - 5 Year NFL Player - All Big Ten.


Let's put this into perspective:

Wisconsin had 3 NFL Players at Linebacker, an NFL Run Stuffing anchor on the D-line, and 3 of their DBs were NFL players.

Chinander has arguably 1 NFL FA in Luke Gifford and potentially a late round selection in 2020 with Barry. That's it.

There is no comparison between the talent Aranda inherited and the defensive talent at Nebraska.

And its difficult to not laugh at recruiting rankings with Dedrick Young is a higher rated recruit out of high school than every linebacker at Iowa or Wisconsin.... Young wouldn't even sniff the two deep at either program.

 

[Hoosker Du]

2013 was a weak Big 10. Your argument is terrible and short sighted

Just stop embarrasding yourself. Take a time out.

 

[RedMyMind]

Just stop embarrasding yourself. Take a time out.

keep crying like a basic bitch.

 

[Hoosker Du]

I don't understand why I respond to your posts. You seriously manufacture bull shit to fit your absurdist narratives.

Aranda inherited the following defensive players:

- LB Chris Borland- All American, Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year- dude was on his way to NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year before Concussions took their toll
- LB Vince Biegel - - 6 year NFL player - 3 time all Big Ten Player
LB - Joe Schobert - 1st Team All American - Jack Lambert Award Winner- 4 year NFL player, - Led NFL in tackles in 2017.
S- Michael Caputo - 2 time All Big Ten Player
S - Desmend Southward - 5 year NFL Player, 4th round Draft Pick.
CB - Sojourn Shelton - 2 Time All Big Ten player, 3 year NFL career
NT - Beau Allen - 5 Year NFL Player - All Big Ten.


Let's put this into perspective:

Wisconsin had 3 NFL Players at Linebacker, an NFL Run Stuffing anchor on the D-line, and 3 of their DBs were NFL players.

Chinander has arguably 1 NFL FA in Luke Gifford and potentially a late round selection in 2020 with Barry. That's it.

There is no comparison between the talent Aranda inherited and the defensive talent at Nebraska.

And its difficult to not laugh at recruiting rankings with Dedrick Young is a higher rated recruit out of high school than every linebacker at Iowa or Wisconsin.... Young wouldn't even sniff the two deep at either program.

And I don't know why I read your bullshit. You're the moron that said Ozigbo sucked less than a year ago. Serious next level stupidity.