Churchill was a warmonger and one of the biggest causes of ww2. He also led one of the worst military blunders in history at Gallipoli.
Civil mismanagement has consequences
- Thread starter GBRforLife1
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I don't know about causing WW2, in fact, I think some credit him with not losing the war, which might have changed the world as we now know it. But yes, his failure at Gallipoli followed him for years.
It was a joke about the quota playing on your heightened sensitivity for unknown reasons and extra triggeredness. Usually you're not like that.
We should have a beer. I love the double IPAs idk if I ever had a triple. Call me whatever names you like. I really don't care. Idk if you can get the Double Secret Martin City Hardway in central Mo. It was quite good.
I'll see if my circle will let be break away from the keyboard.
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It's everywhere around you. Corporations convincing people that unions are bad and wages have to be kept low or people will lose their jobs. Or convincing people that tax cuts for the wealthy will lead to economic growth. Tax cuts for the middle and lower classes is good for the economy, not tax cuts for the rich. On the other side you have their leaders playing on the white, male, middle class privilege bs. If anyone has privilege in society, it's the elite class. It's certainly not your average middle class white male. Both the Republican party and Democrat party play into these dynamics and pit people against each other for the benefit of corporations and the elite class.
I think if you asked most of these minorities groups the majority would tell you that you are just a strange white guy.
Only your generation gets all upset over a statue of george washington
there is that self loathing showing up again - white man bad - historical figures were all warmongers and racists - what ion the world do these liberal professors teach you guys
I am a strange white guy, not that I need reminding, but I'd take you up on that bet, and I think you'd be disappointed.
As for GW or Jefferson, that's where this conversation becomes significantly more complicated, and where wokeness needs to slow its roll. My comments have been in reference to the many statues of Confederate heroes. That's a much easier conversation, in my opinion.
Never said anything about that. Just think Churchill is a highly overrated historical figure.
One thing you woken people need to consider is this :
This movement or whatever you want to call is not about equality or sensitivity or truth it is pure and simple hate driven. You hate things some of you its your country, some its your race or someone elses, you hate people have more than you, you hate Trump and you hate many historical figures.
Be careful because this does not stop once the statues come down or trump is no longer in office. At some point this hate is going to be turned against you, and the things you most cherish. When that happens do not come crying to the rest of the population you have lectured over your trigger points. Those people will not be there to stand up for you
I don't even know what the heck you're talking about. I think you're replying to the wrong guy.
It's called
I take your point. In the last couple of years I was in a certain setting where Pulp Fiction was about to air. Everyone was warned the movie had violent and racially charged situations, and they were given a chance to leave before it went on so that they wouldn't be triggered. At times it does go too far, and there are many more people on the left who realize this that you recognize. But your characterization that this is all about hate is an oversimplification. And if we're being honest, the Confederate monuments were put up as symbols of hate. Plain and simple. Still we can, and should, have a more nuanced understanding of Jefferson and Washington. I don't see anything wrong with that. They did great things, but they also owned humans and there is no reason that shouldn't be part of the conversation. Why must we paint a picture that's 100 pct. glowing of a person? Why not provide a rounded view? Why is that so controversial? But when it comes to some people I just flat out disagree. Columbus, for example. The dude was a tyrant, a murderer who launched the Atlantic slave trade, and by the way he never set foot in this country. And you'll never convince me that the Confederate heroes deserve a monument in a public square.
After the Charleston AME shooting, the monuments along Monument Avenue in Richmond, VA came under scrutiny. A group that had initially sought their removal came up with a compromise; they developed mockups of historical marker signs that explained those figures in proper historical context. Those signs would be placed at the monuments, along with a sign explaining the historical development of the area. That included detailing how those monuments all went up after 1890, and how they were used as a selling point for houses in the neighborhood--which was off limits to blacks, by the way.
The commission responsible for the care of those monuments said "no".
So now here we are.
Before you ask "where does it stop?", my answer is "somewhere". I can recognize that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson did great things for the country, and thus can be honored, despite their flaws.
Jefferson Davis was born in Kentucky. The family left for Mississippi when he was 2; he never lived there again. He grew up to become president of a nation that waged war against the country in which he was born, as Kentucky never seceded, and more Kentuckians took up arms for the Union side by about a 3-1 margin. I never understood why Davis was honored at their State Capitol with a 12' statue that was put up 71 years after the war ended, and 47 years after his death.
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This right here is what so many conservatives conveniently leave out of the conversation. They are convinced that hoards of white dudes with man buns are tearing down monuments to American saints. Or that we should put this to a vote because that'll solve the problem. The folks defending the monuments to Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson aren't interested in compromise. They don't want a conversation on the meaning and context behind those symbols. It is a culture war, and the fight is over an honest accounting of our past. This conservative narrative of the lost cause is so intellectually dishonest it makes me want to puke. And they wonder why statues are coming down.
Typical if you cant win democratically throw a tantrum and start destroying stuff. Lose an election invent some phony russian conspiracy. Again if you have a vote and the majority doesnt like the statue it comes down, if not it stays up any other action is lawless and anarchy. I seriously do not think your generation is ready for the boomerang once you go to far
My comment to which Cap replied had nothing to do with an election or Russia.
Look who's talking. You want a president who loses the popular vote in a election because of some ancient relic of a system. Why? Because you know if this were based on most votes wins, you'd lose. Your guy started crying years ago that if he lost it was only because of fraud, so all of his followers have been trying to come up with a phony scandal of widespread voter fraud even though it's never happened, repeat NEVER HAPPENED. Your party is the one that wants to come up with ways to shrink voter turnout because if more people vote you'll lose. Russian investigation led to several convictions of top level people in the Trump campaign, proof that there was contact with Russia and a special prosecutor who said while he couldn't charge the president with a crime that his findings DID NOT exonerate him. Learn to accept that Russia did attempt to influence our election, that they did attempt to influence Trump. He's about as innocent as OJ. Calling it a phone conspiracy just makes you look stupid.
News flash nations try and influence elections in other countries. Yes russia does, china does it more and the US is probably the largest culprit. Ask Israel if obama interfered with their election. I want a president elected by the processes outlined in the constitution ( you know that old document that let's you live free) I have no desire to be controlled by the population of california. In fact most of their resident dont like their state anymore due to liberal policies
You know what most Californians like, based on what information? You do understand that the majority of the state votes blue, still by your accounting most people don't like their state. Can you see the disconnect in your logic? And if you fancy history so much, you might be interested to learn that our founding fathers were very concerned about foreign interference in our elections. It is a problem. But since your boy got himself caught up in one scandal after another, y'all have added "everyone does it" to your arsenal of garbage arguments, right after "it was a hoax" falls flat.
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Well I live on left coast so there is that. People are fleeing California like rats from a sinking ship. Many go to texas hmmm wonder why? The Russian conspiracy narrative was a hoax that is not opinion it is fact. What remains to be seen is who perpetrated the hoax but it does look like Obama, Clinton and yes Biden were involved
Oh my god, you are one of those conservative crazies. Climate change is fake, too? World is flat, right? Well, you suggest you're old, so hopefully your brand of willful ignorance is on the wane.
Yeah, we know. Another poster linked a video, talking about how all these Californians were heading to red states. Of course, he apparently wasn't paying attention, because the video referenced the top 10 states Californians were heading to, and Hillary Clinton won 6 of the 10, with 2 of the other 4 Trump is in danger of losing.
Is someone from LA County that moves to Austin or San Antonio really escaping liberal politics?
Let us know when all those Californians are heading to Kansas, Nebraska, or the Dakotas.
And your last sentence; apparently Trump's DOJ disagrees with you.
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I will tell you folks are fleeing New York. We are in NC and we’ve had 3 people from NY and one from CA join the neighborhood in the last week. Talked to 2 out of 4 and they are tired of their states BS. They said a lot of people are fleeing the city and surrounding areas.
I suspect now that people are telecommuting that this will be one of the lasting effects of covid. Many financial people are betting exactly what you stated that many will be moving to the midwest. Think of some of the great cities and states. California is blessed with so much, Seattle is located in an incredible natural area, New York is one the historically great cities in the world. People are fleeing these places due to cost, politics and taxes. No offense to Texas but think of leaving the beauty of Seattle or Sanfrancisco to live in Austin. The liberal policies are driving these people out.
As far as the Obama, Biden, Clinton cabal they are as dirty as they come and if the media was not in the bag it would be evident to everyone by now
Austin is pretty damn liberal. Hillary won it 66%-27%. It's also a pretty nice area.
Like I said regarding Obama and Biden; Trump's own DOJ doesn't seem to agree with your assessment--media or no media.
Scientific consensus said the world was flat. A few crazy people proved that to be wrong. I'm just saying that this may not be the best analogy for you to use when arguing science.
People are fleeing these places due to cost, politics and taxes.
-- This seems accurage
As far as the Obama, Biden, Clinton cabal they are as dirty as they come and if the media was not in the bag it would be evident to everyone by now
-- This is so far off the mark that I worry for your mental health
Are you talking, like, centuries ago? By crazy people do you mean scientists? Are you making an argument that the 1 pct. of scientists who doubt climate change are equivalent to Galileo?
Climate change is real what the solution is according to liberals is fake. I am as educated or more so than you jack. I was just not taught by comrade professor like you were
Why would a professor talking about climate change get the communist moniker?
You do understand that the Soviet Union wasn't even truly communist, right?
Conservatives just toss it out there because to them it sounds like the ultimate insult. Funny thing is, the guy that many of them worship -- Jesus -- preached what are essentially communist values.
Haha I have avoided this thread lately. You are still here? Amazing a,persistent fella you are. Always available for a good chuckle.
You pups no not what you speak. I have real world experience with the soviet union and their brand of socialism. You need to speak with people who have fled that system and ask them why they see the same things happening in the US
Thanks! I like it here, I think I'll stick around for a while. And while I'm here, I'll just keep educating the simple-minded. Welcome back!
Did you just refer to Jesus as "that guy" that explains a lot
Memo to SnohomishRed:
The Soviet Union crumbled 30 years ago!
P.S.
You can thank social policies for 8 hour work days, minimum wage, public education, roads, clean air and water, national parks......
P.S.S.
You are welcome!
Trust me I know when they crumbled ever seen a soviet tank rumbling through your town it's quite a sight.
I call Jesus, my savior so do 2 5 billion other people mostly in free countries. Atheists at least most of them can be found in China or elsewhere spouting the benefits of socialism
Anyhow this is stupid I am out you keep fighting for what i have no idea
Yes, you are stupid. By your count, about 70 pct. of the world is going to hell. Okey-dokey. Sleep well, old man, and dream of large women.
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