Can someone explain the number of schollies now? SIAP

[Husker.Wed.]

I thought I had a handle on it last week, but am now lost. If we landed Allen, Fitz and Simmons, I thought that would put us at 88 with Talen leaving. Those 3 didn't come, but we added Englehaupt, which put us at 86. Now we are losing Hovey and Mosley, so doesn't that put us at 84? I was under the impression adding Bisharat at the last minute was to get us to 85. So now, if 3 or 4 leave after spring, are we then on self-imposed probation at 80 unless they go to walkons? And how does the schollie to William's kid fit in this?

I'm confused.

 

[NikkiSixx]

doesn't sound like you are confused at all.. it's not going to be perfectly efficient to get the roster switched over to the new system, but it appears they are doing a good job of it given how big of a change it is to manage. it will be interesting to see what the team looks like comes spring regarding the roster. i think they will need an even bigger and better recruiting class next year as they turn the corner.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Keyan Williams and Tanner Lee both count towards the 85.

So now, if 3 or 4 leave after spring, are we then on self-imposed probation at 80 unless they go to walkons?

Technically you can call it that however, we are looking at adding 2-4 early enrollee's for the 2017 class that can count back to the 2016 class.

 

[Husker.Wed.]

Keyan Williams and Tanner Lee both count towards the 85.



Technically you can call it that however, we are looking at adding 2-4 early enrollee's for the 2017 class that can count back to the 2016 class.

OK, got it, thanks.

 

[CC_Lemming]

Keyan Williams and Tanner Lee both count towards the 85.



Technically you can call it that however, we are looking at adding 2-4 early enrollee's for the 2017 class that can count back to the 2016 class.

Why does it matter if they can 'count back' if the limit is always 85? Is it so you can over sign in any given year if attrition is greater than 25?

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Why does it matter if they can 'count back' if the limit is always 85? Is it so you can over sign in any given year if attrition is greater than 25?

Correct, just look at Michigan, they "signed" 28 in their 2016 class but 6 (?) were early enrollee's. I'm not sure how many were allowed to count back, @studed could answer that for us.

 

[CC_Lemming]

Correct, just look at Michigan, they "signed" 28 in their 2016 class but 6 (?) were early enrollee's. I'm not sure how many were allowed to count back, @studed could answer that for us.

I see, thanks.

 

[Tulsa Tom]

Did our two guys who enrolled early count back?

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Did our two guys who enrolled early count back?

Didn't need to, anything above that & we would've counted back.

 

[inWV]

HTO and others who are following things a bit more closely that I, do you get the sense that regardless of how we may have converted on prospects, that recruiting and roster management is in better shape than two years ago. I am assuming the answer is yes.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

HTO and others who are following things a bit more closely that I, do you get the sense that regardless of how we may have converted on prospects, that recruiting and roster management is in better shape than two years ago. I am assuming the answer is yes.

For me it's yes, but we'll find out more after spring practice (additional attrition) plus how the 2017 class ends up with meeting needs. A balance of the depth chart seems to be the biggest priority in the first two classes.

 

[nebcountry]

I look at this for the scholarship distribution chart.

Key numbers as I understand it:
- have to be at or below 85 around the time school starts in fall.
- can take 25 in a given class. Early enrollees can be counted against the prior year, but you're still following the 25 max rule. Oversigning allows 3 more to be signed, but doesn't allow more scholarships.

Example: school X signs 29 players in 2016. In 2015 school X signed 21 or less players. Of the 29, 4 enroll early and count against the previous year.

The scholarship dist. chart might be put together by the World Herald (I don't know), but has seemed to be kept up-to-date and accurate in a reasonably short period of time. Yesterday we were at 85, today I see Tanner Lee is on the chart and our total count is 86. The total count will have to be 85 max by around the time school starts in the fall ( I don't remember the exact timing on when the count is taken).

Edit: changed example numbers so oversigning 3 won't be confused with actual scholarship offers.

 

[studed]

Correct, just look at Michigan, they "signed" 28 in their 2016 class but 6 (?) were early enrollee's. I'm not sure how many were allowed to count back, @studed could answer that for us.

yea michigan had 7 early enrollee's. the max you can count back is 3. the most you can take is 25 and 28 if you count back. they changed the rule a couple years ago when the sec use to take 38 guys in a class. if a team has more than 28 it would mean some recruits are grey shirts

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Key numbers as I understand it:
- have to be at or below 85 around the time school starts in fall.
- can take 25 in a given class. Early enrollees can be counted against the prior year, but you're still following the 25 max rule. Oversigning allows 3 more to be signed, but doesn't allow more scholarships.

I believe it's by the start of fall camp.

Michigan took 28.

 

[nebcountry]

yea michigan had 7 early enrollee's. the max you can count back is 3. the most you can take is 25 and 28 if you count back. they changed the rule a couple years ago when the sec use to take 38 guys in a class. if a team has more than 28 it would mean some recruits are grey shirts

I need to keep up with times, thanks for the info.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

the max you can count back is 3.

Appreciate the response, how confident are you that 3 is the max? We were looking at 5 EE's in the 2016 class, and we're looking at 2-4 in the 2017 class.

 

[CC_Lemming]

I look at this for the scholarship distribution chart.

Key numbers as I understand it:
- have to be at or below 85 around the time school starts in fall.
- can take 25 in a given class. Early enrollees can be counted against the prior year, but you're still following the 25 max rule. Oversigning allows 3 more to be signed, but doesn't allow more scholarships.

Example: school X signs 29 players in 2016. In 2015 school X signed 21 or less players. Of the 29, 4 enroll early and count against the previous year.

The scholarship dist. chart might be put together by the World Herald (I don't know), but has seemed to be kept up-to-date and accurate in a reasonably short period of time. Yesterday we were at 85, today I see Tanner Lee is on the chart and our total count is 86. The total count will have to be 85 max by around the time school starts in the fall ( I don't remember the exact timing on when the count is taken).

Edit: changed example numbers so oversigning 3 won't be confused with actual scholarship offers.

Is the 25 max a BIG rule or an NCAA rule? I think the former, because SEC schools are allowed to oversign, right?

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Is the 25 max a BIG rule or an NCAA rule? I think the former, because SEC schools are allowed to oversign, right?

It's not a rule if you have EE's.

 

[nebcountry]

Is the 25 max a BIG rule or an NCAA rule? I think the former, because SEC schools are allowed to oversign, right?

25/85 is NCAA rule, every single FBS school has to follow it. NCAA allows oversigning 3. Conferences can amend these rules to only a stricter degree (i.e. a conference could require zero oversigning, but cannot allow more than the NCAA's 3 oversigning limit). Also, I don't remember the exact details, but the 25 rule does not apply to transfers in most or all cases. So Tanner Lee and Williams do not count against the 25 rule, but they do count against the 85 rule.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe at this point, every conference allows the NCAA maximum allowable oversigning of 3 (28 recruits max counted against this year). I don't know each conference's rules/constraints concerning oversigning though.

Edit: For HTO's comment, EE's allow you to count against the previous year. So in a class signing you can take more than 25, but you have to count some against the previous class.

 

[CC_Lemming]

25/85 is NCAA rule, every single FBS school has to follow it. NCAA allows oversigning 3. Conferences can amend these rules to only a stricter degree (i.e. a conference could require zero oversigning, but cannot allow more than the NCAA's 3 oversigning limit). Also, I don't remember the exact details, but the 25 rule does not apply to transfers in most or all cases. So Tanner Lee and Williams do not count against the 25 rule, but they do count against the 85 rule.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe at this point, every conference allows the NCAA maximum allowable oversigning of 3. I don't know each conference's rules/constraints concerning oversigning though.

Edit: For HTO's comment, EE's allow you to count against the previous year. So in a class signing you can take more than 25, but you have to count some against the previous class.

Thanks for the clarification. My understanding of scholarship management an distribution has increased tenfold thanks to this thread. My sense or memory is that th NCAA rule was a relatively recent one?

I had previously made a critical remark about the low numbers of this class, especially as that was often a criticism of Pelini's classes too. And HTO responded something to the effect that 21-22 was a 'full' class and I remember thinking, 'no it's not, 25 is a full class.' But he was speaking in reference to the 85 scholarship limit and not the 25 allowable. Makes so much more sense to me now.

 

[HuskerTimOmaha]

Thanks for the clarification. My understanding of scholarship management an distribution has increased tenfold thanks to this thread. My sense or memory is that th NCAA rule was a relatively recent one?

I had previously made a critical remark about the low numbers of this class, especially as that was often a criticism of Pelini's classes too. And HTO responded something to the effect that 21-22 was a 'full' class and I remember thinking, 'no it's not, 25 is a full class.' But he was speaking in reference to the 85 scholarship limit and not the 25 allowable. Makes so much more sense to me now.

Glad to assist. I'll throw another wrench in to the discussion...

You can only count back if you had openings as of the previous signing day and/or fall camp the previous year, can't remember the exact details. As in, coach Riley technically could've used all awarded "walk-on scholarships" from the 2015 season to sign more players in the 2016 class.

Just because you have 19 open scholarships doesn't mean you can only sign 22 (original 19 plus +3 B1G allowance = 22). You can still sign 25, but you have to have the "additional 3" beyond the +3 B1G allowance documented in detail on signing day and turned in to the B1G offices. From everything I've heard, the B1G looks down on it but it is a possibility.

This make sense?