We had more talent, that never played, yet,somehow,still counted! You missed a couple qbs too.
Bad sign
- Thread starter Pennsyhusker
- Start date
I thought you didn’t care if people dared to disagree with you. People disagree,it happens all the time.
Can't duck this Nebraska wins, nfl who cares when minny gets more than twice what we had, plus zero the year before.
I will not make some disconnect that nfl talent doesnt help you win.
Gee, look at our all big ten lists since 2013, its pitiful. Too many coaching turnovers causing high attrition.
Its not the only problem, add in some poor recruiting, light development and that was us.
Big ten didn't trust us enough to put our guys on their team either.
Great, but that isn't what I was replying to.
First I think you are overstating the number of games that hinged on special teams. But that isn't even a topic in this discussion, so I am going to pass discussing it further in this thread.
Second, my point to Harry was to discuss him talking about Iowa taking 3 star players and making them pros. I don't really care about pro football with regards to Nebraska players. Yes it is cool when they say they played at Nebraska, but, to me, it is low on this list of importance.
As I said, and apparently you agree, Nebraska has been woefully inept at developing talent over the past 6-10 years. Developing players is the key. That is what Iowa does, that is what Wisconsin does. It is also what Alabama does and what Ohio St does. Why do we always want to be Iowa or Wisconsin and never Alabama or Ohio St?? Why can't we shoot for better than Iowa/ Wisconsin but maybe not quite Alabama/ Ohio St? We recruit better than the other teams in the B1G west, if we developed players at the same rate, in theory, we would be better. Then the NFL thing takes care of itself.
As far as the winning/ confidence/ motivation cycle, it is hard to say which comes first and how you get that cycle rolling. Perhaps developing players who win one on one matchups creates confidence which in turn leads the team to more victories.
Don't confuse what I wrote. Having NFL talent can help you win, but Harry was saying that Iowa has developed all this NFL talent and they haven't won much, so it isn't an either/ or. My point on NFL talent on my team, is that if it is there great but I cheer for Nebraska to win games, not for how many players with ties to Nebraska are in NFL.
Iowas 5 star went lower than projected.
There's a difference between developing 3 stars and developing 5 stars.
There's a difference between developing 3 stars and developing 5 stars.
We also tend to forget that our very own Scott Frost didn’t sign with us either.
I can't believe Bama let Smothers go. It's the beginning of the end for them.
Nebraska's basically being pulled up from the ashes right now and that's not hyperbole.
Nebraska's had three players drafted in the last three years. None of them OL, RBs, TEs, or DBs (traditionally strong spots for NU) and none of them before the 6th round.
If you want a little bit more harsh reality, Nebraska's beat one team that won 10 or more games that year since the beginning of the 2013 season and that was '15 Michigan State (the same Michigan State that Iowa choked against in the CCG to keep them out of the playoff...aw, shucks).
One quality win in seven years under three different head coaches. The people who say Nebraska needs to win aren't wrong. Nebraska doesn't necessarily need to win 9 games in 2020, but they need to at least beat a team with a pulse and they need to do it in front of a bunch of recruits who are social butterflies on social media.
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Ya but Station went to Iowa because he was going to play immediately, which wouldn’t have happen his first 2 years in Lincoln..
Sure, but one does beget the other.
But developing players consistently,creating a real starters vs backups is where we've failed the most.
Our previous staffs, in certain rooms, could develop starters, yet the second teamers were woefully short.
Roster development was horrible, too many holes.
The more coaching turnover, the higher the attrition, bouncing guys around for fit when changing systems, even body types etc.
Consistency and talent and development has been killing our team. But people still think we've outrecruited teams where the players that made that difference left, leaving things much closer than people think.
They see our class finished 25th, but our high attrition,unbalanced roster, lower walkon numbers have decimated this team.
Add in low development,here we are.
Most nflers are self starters, not all, but most. We haven't had that 'we've recruited better' numbers in those guys, we lack leaders etc.
Osborne could close because he won national titles. Pretty easy to convince kids to play for you when those rings are shining in the glare from the kitchen table lights. I respect your posts but come on man. Yeah I’m pissed off too and I feel like both Johnson’s kicked DONU in the sack today. But winning solves everything and we all know it. Quit looking for side reasons to be pissed off about. Win football games and everything gets better
I've posted elsewheres, skill players, we out recruit wiscy to a point, iowa and minny. Other than D tackle, its only even or we've been outrecruited.
This is changing on the O line and at LB, but we are too young to even see much from them.
Winning will fix all of this, we have the guys, we have the coaches, it'll happen
You need to read the whole thread and not reply to just one post. You miss out on other things that have been written and addressed.
Simply put. We have brought in more talent than the other schools in the Big Ten west. Had we developed as well as we should have, some of those players don't leave and the attrition is reduced, roster stays balanced and coaches don't leave..... etc.
Leaders are only effective if they are allowed to lead. Pelini was the voice for his teams. He never allowed his team to be a player lead team. Riley was the exact opposite, he wanted his players to lead the team, but his upperclassmen didn't know how because Pelini did the leading for them, it is difficult for younger players to be leaders on a team. Frost inherited that mess. As much as he tries, I think he is more like Pelini than Riley when it comes to player lead team. His QB and captain is soft spoken and introverted, publicly. His defense was so lacking for leaders that a grad transfer took on that role and it isn't going to be much different this year. So I agree with you there.
The key is development, but again my point throughout this entire discussion is that developing 4 and 5 stars is better than developing 2 and 3 stars. If you develop players, they start to gain confidence, confident players win one on one match ups, winning one on ones equates to winning games. Winning games is the goal and the cycle starts over.
Pennsy I’m more upset of not landing Dickerson.. I’ll admit I don’t know how good Johnson kid is but we recruited quite a few receivers from last years class that will have more of impact for us down the road than the Johnson kid..
I’m not trading Betts or a Wandale type talent for Johnson..
I’m not trading Betts or a Wandale type talent for Johnson..
You don't make any sense. Go away.As Hawk fan who can respect Husker tradition it’s a bit obvious times are a changing and these “Teams” that Nebraska and Miami were able to get away with is just not possible now in the “Big Ten” had you guys chosen the SEC you guys would have had better success getting away with the same old shenanigans. Look who’s getting bad publicity? MSU and Nebraska, rightfully so as well. It not being a lib or a left handed nut it’s just progressiveness and the ball game is changing so I’d advise you trash the old recipe and try to win the correct way. Those championships mean jack shit if they were won with no rules and the old BCS standard just saying... P.S. the Iowa trolls that come here to poke fun are just boomers who want to make this a true rivalry, that’s is all. Hoping for another good game this year boys!
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Lay off the crack Jack. If you are gonna troll at least try to make sense. How old are you 14?As Hawk fan who can respect Husker tradition it’s a bit obvious times are a changing and these “Teams” that Nebraska and Miami were able to get away with is just not possible now in the “Big Ten” had you guys chosen the SEC you guys would have had better success getting away with the same old shenanigans. Look who’s getting bad publicity? MSU and Nebraska, rightfully so as well. It not being a lib or a left handed nut it’s just progressiveness and the ball game is changing so I’d advise you trash the old recipe and try to win the correct way. Those championships mean jack shit if they were won with no rules and the old BCS standard just saying... P.S. the Iowa trolls that come here to poke fun are just boomers who want to make this a true rivalry, that’s is all. Hoping for another good game this year boys!
I don't disagree in state kids nowadays see Nebraska football in a different light, we've been irrelevant for 20 years. I'd also agree Frost and Co have looked good on national signing days. But come game time they've pissed it down their legs and he's losing ground in recruiting because of it.
Didn't we just pull the 6'5" kid out of Miami that had 5 sacks against the state champions in Florida last year? Seems to me that's a lot more important than grabbing a 5'7" DB and average speed WR. No disrespect to those kids, but there are hundreds of kids around the country just like them.
Simply put, we have lost more players than any team in the Big. Leaders like Luke, Farmer and Foster and Stan and Ziggy had no such problems, big vacuum after that, and those guys never knew Bo.
I answered the OP by saying all our failed coaches,his words. I went to detail.
My point is, winning changes everything, and you first need to recruit better guys, stay with them, not lose a years worth of development through coaching change while losing conference leading numbers of players.
His qbs, like ucfs guy? Like Oregons guy? Yea, they were great leaders.
Me too which is why my OP wasn’t just about losing Johnson, but a worrying trend I see of losing kids out of Omaha. Omaha is the most important recruiting ground in Nebraska. Some of our greatest all time players were from there. Sure... we occasionally lose a recruit from there. Shit happens. But that should be the exception, not the norm. So far this year it is the norm.
Some long time posters on here might be confused by my turn to pessimism in my posts of late. It isn’t because I just suddenly got into a bad mood because of this stupid lockdown. I have genuinely grown concerned about Frost and his leadership. I don’t want to go into all of my reasons for why this is. That would need its own thread and it would probably get locked. Lol.
Thanks to all who responded to this thread. Tuco in particular had some helpful angles on the issue of these recruits we have lost.
It just stings to lose D1 caliber kids from Omaha to Minnesota and Iowa. Ugh. It makes me want to puke.
DId Frost lock up 7-8 NU kids before this recent downturn with the one having been on Wisconsin for a long time? But yeah, let's jump off the ledge for borderline Power 5 kids... Also, saying that Tom Osborne could lock these kids up... Well yeah, he had a winning program that was competing for championships. I think it is pretty damn early to write Frost off.
Who said I am “writing Frost off”? I have concerns about him, yes. So far he has shown nothing that would indicate that he is a good coach. But I am not writing him off. I want him to last a long time here. But so far I am underwhelmed. And this is a chat board. So I chat about that.
He has shown some ability to recruit. But that is about all he has shown. His play calling and game management skills have been atrocious. His defense is soft. His special teams are a nightmare. His QB is a head case. Explain to me again why he wasn’t coached to stay in bounds at all costs against Iowa? He stays inbounds we win and go to a bowl. The narrative starts to flip. We get bragging rights against Iowa. Momentum builds. That was one of the stupidest plays in the history of Nebraska football. And that can’t all be on AMart. His head coach should have told him, explicitly, before the play “don’t throw an incompletion or go out of bounds”. Just one example but it is that kind of boneheaded stupidity that gives me doubts.
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win some games, go bowling.
everything needs to be committed to winning the 1st seven games (if they're even played).
everything.
everything needs to be committed to winning the 1st seven games (if they're even played).
everything.
You do understand that we still had to score on that drive.......right? Regardless of him going out of bounds or not, not entirely sure that even happens. Is that play calling or Iowa's defense?
the #1 player in the state, and the most highly sought after NE recruit in years, is an Omaha-area kid who's been committed to Frost & Co for coming up on a year.
oh, and he plays a marquee position.
if slow, short wrs want to leave, they're welcome to. this will be the last time their names are heard.
talk about throwing folks under the bus. sheesh.
^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Iowa has eight other recruits that UN offered and nobody cares.
Ok, wheres our oc from last year? SF calls the plays,true,but the oc sees the field,he's gone.
I'm of the opinion, the info SF gets from his staff real time during games will change his play calls.
Just keep that in the back of your mind when the team seems to play better.
Not the only reason, but one of a few that should be changed this year that will make a difference.
And we should care because?
Oh,btw,hows the raw pig in iowa?
The obsession continues:
You Herky’s are always mentioning how many offers Nebraska has compared to Iowa, so your staff should be able to hit the dart board once in a while..
Ummm, I don't have time/interest in reading all the way through this thread, but you do realize that even Osborne lost some top instate players to other schools, including Iowa, Stanford (remember that?) and ND, don't you? Keegan was uphill all the way given past coaching staff decisions on his brothers, and then COVID killed any real chance to get to know his new position coach at UNL. I don't know if he's better than what we have (I know Scott recruited him hard, so not saying we didn't want him). I do know that my personal opinion of Dickerson after watching him is that a guy who doesn't love physical contact isn't going to translate well to college DB - notwithstanding his speed. I think Frost will continue to pursue Johnson, don't know if Dickerson was all that important to him.
Iowa scientist have been working hard to THE question, one so devastating,they tremble in fear from it actually happening, so, with all due diligence,24/7/365, they strive to the answer for THE question:
What if iowa gave an offer an nobody cared?
You can see the dilemma. Could they, should they......make another offer?
What if iowa gave an offer an nobody cared?
You can see the dilemma. Could they, should they......make another offer?
I wasn't psyched that Dickerson committed to Minnesota. He was more highly regarded and also I went to Westside so it would have been fun to see a WHS kid play for NU.
Johnson...ok whatever. If he wasn't Clester's kid would it be a big deal?
Would Noah have ever been at UCF or NU if his last name isn't Vedral? No.
Would Javin Wright be at NU if he wasn't Toby's kid? No.
Let's be real, these ain't the Steinkuhler boys. You would like to lock up every in-state kid you want for the sake of having a sure thing in recruiting.
Well, there are no sure things in recruiting.
I can't care that much about Keegan Johnson. Nice upside kid, maybe he is a solid WR. But there will be 100 of him any given year and also it just turned May.
Yes the shine is off, yes this team needs wins. But this in itself is not a huge deal.
Johnson...ok whatever. If he wasn't Clester's kid would it be a big deal?
Would Noah have ever been at UCF or NU if his last name isn't Vedral? No.
Would Javin Wright be at NU if he wasn't Toby's kid? No.
Let's be real, these ain't the Steinkuhler boys. You would like to lock up every in-state kid you want for the sake of having a sure thing in recruiting.
Well, there are no sure things in recruiting.
I can't care that much about Keegan Johnson. Nice upside kid, maybe he is a solid WR. But there will be 100 of him any given year and also it just turned May.
Yes the shine is off, yes this team needs wins. But this in itself is not a huge deal.
No we did not "have to score". The score was tied and we could have played for overtime. But ok... we were trying to win the game in regulation. But the play in question, the one I am referencing was on third down. Since Martinez, on his run, did not make the yardage needed to get the first down, the last thing in the world he should have done is go out of bounds, knowing that we were going to have to punt to Iowa. A second down run? Yes... go out of bounds. But not on third down. That is my point
Two points. Obviously you're pissed, rightfully, so. I'm not happy with the KJ announcement either or the Clester interview. But I think you're using specific events as collateral for you being pissed off about that. I ask you this, how do you know he didn't tell Adrian to run out of bounds and Adrian simply just screwed up? The evidence I have behind that is, and I can't remember where I was told this, might have been on a replay of the Wisconsin game, can't remember, but Frost told the entire offense, Adrian included: no turnovers, no sacks, no mistakes, before that series where Adrian took that ridiculous sack for a loss where he should have thrown the ball away against Wisconsin last year. Point being, Adrian screwed up even when the directions were clear by Frost. So in what world are you actually sure that Frost didn't tell him to get out of bounds just like any coach would in such a basic scenario and that he just skipped right over that part? You don't, you're assuming because you're pissed and that's understandable.
"We had to score" meaning we had to put up points whether it was a field goal or TD to win that game in that situation. That was in response to your "he stays in bounds, we win and go to a bowl"...just because he stays in bounds doesn't mean jack shit unless we score. The game was tied. We punted and they kicked a field goal to win. Think rationally and logically.
We would have had better odds beating them going into Overtime instead of punting to them..
I agree with Pennsy on this.. He should have never went out of bounds and stopped the clock..
