Anymore attrition on the horizon?

[Pennsyhusker]

I have zero knowledge of the inner workings of the football program. But I do wonder if these coaches, aware of our scholarship limitations this year, aren't being brutally honest about playing time with guys who are buried on the depth chart. I wonder if they aren't trying to convince some guys to transfer and offering to help them do so.
Thoughts?

 

[rrthusker]

Riley mentioned a couple of days ago, no. I find this to be regular coach speak and fully expect there will be more attrition before opening day.

 

[HBK4life]

I heard he is encouraging all our QBs and WRs to move on. TEs will be blockers only. Straight up wildcat, snap to RB every play.This is being done so run the ball every play guy will never have anything to bitch about ever again!!

 

[dockentwo]

I heard he is encouraging all our QBs and WRs to move on. TEs will be blockers only. Straight up wildcat, snap to RB every play.This is being done so run the ball every play guy will never have anything to bitch about ever again!!

Plus he is consulting a former rb/head coach on how to encourage the opposition to go from 8 to 9 in the box; so we can further wear them out in the 4th quarter and watch our rb's then step over collapsing D-linemen. O-linemen will basically have some Ne ties to get genetics of the inability to tire, that is rumored from old times. The 9th guy in the box, is to be tripped by the first O-lineman who has pancaked the two linemen he has been forced to block out of the eight.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Riley mentioned a couple of days ago, no. I find this to be regular coach speak and fully expect there will be more attrition before opening day.

I do too. Obviously, there is always some attrition. But I suspect there might be one or two more than usual. Of course, this could just be wishful thinking on my part. But this staff is really motivated to take us to a championship level team. So my hunch is they will do everything that is within the bounds of legality and ethics to move the deadweight out.

 

[dockentwo]

I have zero knowledge of the inner workings of the football program. But I do wonder if these coaches, aware of our scholarship limitations this year, aren't being brutally honest about playing time with guys who are buried on the depth chart. I wonder if they aren't trying to convince some guys to transfer and offering to help them do so.
Thoughts?

When I Was surfing the net, a guy with some cred said ,1-2 more maybe not that far off; and made it seem likely . Even some coaches comments. The individual felt we could stretch too 20 if there was motivation to really do it - fall camp and position battles having a real effect. Of note, at six top schools ( not Ala ) ; a large study showed 48% of Scholie players making it too their senior years. So I believe there is room to ethically help many reach their opportunities elsewhere, with natural attrition we have room for a great squad ( with their pro experience, why wouldn't a team be looked at more along these lines ). GBR

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

This.....

When I Was surfing the net, a guy with some cred said ,1-2 more maybe not that far off; and made it seem likely . Even some coaches comments. The individual felt we could stretch too 20 if there was motivation to really do it - fall camp and position battles having a real effect. Of note, at six top schools ( not Ala ) ; a large study showed 48% of Scholie players making it too their senior years. So I believe there is room to ethically help many reach their opportunities elsewhere, with natural attrition we have room for a great squad ( with their pro experience, why wouldn't a team be looked at more along these lines ). GBR

Made me think of this...

 

[ExxHusker]

Every successful venture must address low performers promptly. They not only don't pull their weight they impact the ethic of the organization. This applies to coaches and players and staying on top of this is critical and ethical. It is unethical no to.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

When I Was surfing the net, a guy with some cred said ,1-2 more maybe not that far off; and made it seem likely . Even some coaches comments. The individual felt we could stretch too 20 if there was motivation to really do it - fall camp and position battles having a real effect. Of note, at six top schools ( not Ala ) ; a large study showed 48% of Scholie players making it too their senior years. So I believe there is room to ethically help many reach their opportunities elsewhere, with natural attrition we have room for a great squad ( with their pro experience, why wouldn't a team be looked at more along these lines ). GBR

I could be misremembering something, but I think Damon Benning mentioned last week that Diaco's intensity has translated into very tough practices which, according to Benning, might drive a few guys out.

 

[dinglefritz]

Good cop bad cop method. Sounds like Diaco is the bad cop with the rest of the crew on the D side providing the good cop.

 

[dockentwo]

I could be misremembering something, but I think Damon Benning mentioned last week that Diaco's intensity has translated into very tough practices which, according to Benning, might drive a few guys out.

I was lucky enough catching that or him referring back to it. Damon Benning definitely said there were no options; you were going to go for it or face questions and whatever came with it. With coach Parella and his manuals and humored intensity on the line; we are going to see some young, but high character Blackshirts breaking out early. IMO. GBR

 

[inWV]

I've heard some Charlie McBride stories. Diaco will have to work up to McBrides level of bad cop. But Charlie also fielded some bada$$ defenses.

 

[jawatkins]

Every successful venture must address low performers promptly. They not only don't pull their weight they impact the ethic of the organization. This applies to coaches and players and staying on top of this is critical and ethical. It is unethical no to.

No these institutions are supposed to be looking out for the student athlete, not the people in the stands. . I am glad the B1G has guaranteed a scholarships, I don't think a kid should be sold a bill goods by coaches on what they can do with their talent and then have the scholarship revoked because the coach was wrong, that is life changing terribleness. If the kid is not in good standing, isn't showing up to practice on time or doesn't put in effort in training etc the school is allowed to pull the scholarship and I think that is fine. Coaches are going to be wrong about talent sometimes, it's not right to revoke scholarships for that reason. I don't mind a coach talking a kid into transferring if it is best for all parties but, once again, I'm proud of the B1G for guaranteeing scholarships.

 

[dockentwo]

This.....

Made me think of this...

Thinking you caught a pic of A TROLL ON THE MOVE - maybe never played the game; feels he claims to be a fan of a team and they have no right to lose with effort. Especially like to attack reasonable posters who know far more than they do. May eventually have a wife that posts; as far as they rumor.

 

[HBK4life]

I've heard some Charlie McBride stories. Diaco will have to work up to McBrides level of bad cop. But Charlie also fielded some bada$$ defenses.

True, but growing up all I ever heard was people calling for McBrides head. Mainly because FSU and Miami's offense made us look stupid. Until he recruited speed and better talent on D. Then...boom...amazing what some speed and talent will do for a coach.

 

[dockentwo]

No these institutions are supposed to be looking out for the student athlete, not the people in the stands. . I am glad the B1G has guaranteed a scholarships, I don't think a kid should be sold a bill goods by coaches on what they can do with their talent and then have the scholarship revoked because the coach was wrong, that is life changing terribleness. If the kid is not in good standing, isn't showing up to practice on time or doesn't put in effort in training etc the school is allowed to pull the scholarship and I think that is fine. Coaches are going to be wrong about talent sometimes, it's not right to revoke scholarships for that reason. I don't mind a coach talking a kid into transferring if it is best for all parties but, once again, I'm proud of the B1G for guaranteeing scholarships.

With the amount of money available ; should have more categories of support.

 

[HBK4life]

True, but growing up all I ever heard was people calling for McBrides head. Until he recruited speed and better talent on D. Then...boom...amazing what some speed and talent will do for a coach.

Perfect example. Bo Pelini. Was a genius with Suh, Prince, Crick, Asante, Gomes, Hagg, etc.,etc and all that NFL talent gifted to him from Callahan. Then they leave....hmmm..your defensive guru and his non recruiting ass gets boat raced by Wisconsin every time. Not rocket science why Bama and OSU are in the National title race every year and also recruiting top 5 classes every year. Not a coincidence.

 

[jeans15]

I still like running the ball...lol


As long as every 3rd and 1 is not a passing down without playaction..I'm cool.

 

[Archie Graham]

I could be misremembering something, but I think Damon Benning mentioned last week that Diaco's intensity has translated into very tough practices which, according to Benning, might drive a few guys out.

Music to my ears. If intensity isn't your thing then GTFO.

 

[TruHusker]

Music to my ears. If intensity isn't your thing then GTFO.

I remember the ga-ga over Bo's intensity when first hired. It wore thin pretty quickly. You can be intense without being a jerk or running your mouth all of the time. I have been around coaches and athletes who were intense but you didnt see it but you knew it was when you were around them.

 

[Archie Graham]

I remember the ga-ga over Bo's intensity when first hired. It wore thin pretty quickly. You can be intense without being a jerk or running your mouth all of the time. I have been around coaches and athletes who were intense but you didnt see it but you knew it was when you were around them.

It's certainly got to be productive - no disagreement from me on that front.

 

[dockentwo]

I remember the ga-ga over Bo's intensity when first hired. It wore thin pretty quickly. You can be intense without being a jerk or running your mouth all of the time. I have been around coaches and athletes who were intense but you didnt see it but you knew it was when you were around them.

Would that be coach T O ?

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

intensity does not equal lunacy. Many successful coaches border on that line, others run past that line.

 

[GretnaShawn]

I remember the ga-ga over Bo's intensity when first hired. It wore thin pretty quickly. You can be intense without being a jerk or running your mouth all of the time. I have been around coaches and athletes who were intense but you didnt see it but you knew it was when you were around them.

A big difference between to Pelini staff and this staff is the counterbalance to somebody like Diacos intensity. Riley, who I am sure is plenty serious/intense, has a much different presence. Same with the Williams coaches, etc.

Pelini's staff was led by Bo and Carl. The only real counterbalance to them was Ron Brown. And when Carl left, Kaczenski was on staff shortly after.

 

[rrthusker]

I could be misremembering something, but I think Damon Benning mentioned last week that Diaco's intensity has translated into very tough practices which, according to Benning, might drive a few guys out.

Doesn't seem to hinder Bama or Ohio State.

 

[GretnaShawn]

Doesn't seem to hinder Bama or Ohio State.

Yeah, I never want to hear 'their practices must be bloodbaths' after a lost to Iowa ever again. Bring on the hard practices.

 

[Archie Graham]

Yeah, I never want to hear 'their practices must be bloodbaths' after a lost to Iowa ever again. Bring on the hard practices.

I appreciate his blunt comments; however, that one stung badly.

 

[yunginsNU2]

A big difference between to Pelini staff and this staff is the counterbalance to somebody like Diacos intensity. Riley, who I am sure is plenty serious/intense, has a much different presence. Same with the Williams coaches, etc.

Pelini's staff was led by Bo and Carl. The only real counterbalance to them was Ron Brown. And when Carl left, Kaczenski was on staff shortly after.

I would even say I like how Riley allows each and every coach to be themselves.. He allows them to have fun and coach without micro managing them. Clearly Bo didn't want to be outworked or shown up by any of his coaches which now makes sense to surround yourself with ex golf coaches and Banker lol.. Riley quickly figured out that he needed young hard working talented coaches surrounding him both on the recruiting trail as well as the techniques. This staff is loaded with fantastic coaches..i hope we can keep these guys for ma y years to come..

 

[GretnaShawn]

I would even say I like how Riley allows each and every coach to be themselves.. He allows them to have fun and coach without micro managing them. Clearly Bo didn't want to be outworked or shown up by any of his coaches which now makes sense to surround yourself with ex golf coaches and Banker lol.. Riley quickly figured out that he needed young hard working talented coaches surrounding him both on the recruiting trail as well as the techniques. This staff is loaded with fantastic coaches..i hope we can keep these guys for ma y years to come..

Banker was a Riley hire. Not a Pelini hire.

 

[Archie Graham]

I would even say I like how Riley allows each and every coach to be themselves.. He allows them to have fun and coach without micro managing them. Clearly Bo didn't want to be outworked or shown up by any of his coaches which now makes sense to surround yourself with ex golf coaches and Banker lol.. Riley quickly figured out that he needed young hard working talented coaches surrounding him both on the recruiting trail as well as the techniques. This staff is loaded with fantastic coaches..i hope we can keep these guys for ma y years to come..

 

[dinglefritz]

Banker was a Riley hire. Not a Pelini hire.

I think he made his point with the golf coach. Forgiveness is divine.

 

[dinglefritz]

No these institutions are supposed to be looking out for the student athlete, not the people in the stands. . I am glad the B1G has guaranteed a scholarships, I don't think a kid should be sold a bill goods by coaches on what they can do with their talent and then have the scholarship revoked because the coach was wrong, that is life changing terribleness. If the kid is not in good standing, isn't showing up to practice on time or doesn't put in effort in training etc the school is allowed to pull the scholarship and I think that is fine. Coaches are going to be wrong about talent sometimes, it's not right to revoke scholarships for that reason. I don't mind a coach talking a kid into transferring if it is best for all parties but, once again, I'm proud of the B1G for guaranteeing scholarships.

I've got news for you. Even the "4 year" Regent's academic scholarship is revocable. IF you don't meet performance standards your scholarship is not renewed. So IMO an athletic scholarship should be the same deal with the exception for injury. Then there is the safety net of an injury hardship scholarship if a kid doesn't want to move on to a lower tier school to try to continute his career. An athletic scholarship isn't a participation ribbon. Work your ass off and you likely will retain your ship.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I've got news for you. Even the "4 year" Regent's academic scholarship is revocable. IF you don't meet performance standards your scholarship is not renewed. So IMO an athletic scholarship should be the same deal with the exception for injury. Then there is the safety net of an injury hardship scholarship if a kid doesn't want to move on to a lower tier school to try to continute his career. An athletic scholarship isn't a participation ribbon. Work your ass off and you likely will retain your ship.

Every Regent Scholar, at the time the scholarship is awards, is made aware of the minimum performance standards requires to keep that scholarship.

What are the minimum performance standards for an offensive tackle to keep his scholarship? What about a long snapper?

The problem with comparing academic awards and athletic awards the that performance on the athletic field is somewhat subjective. On the academic side it's typically objective. There is typically a minimum GPA to keep the scholarship.

 

[jawatkins]

I've got news for you. Even the "4 year" Regent's academic scholarship is revocable. IF you don't meet performance standards your scholarship is not renewed. So IMO an athletic scholarship should be the same deal with the exception for injury. Then there is the safety net of an injury hardship scholarship if a kid doesn't want to move on to a lower tier school to try to continute his career. An athletic scholarship isn't a participation ribbon. Work your ass off and you likely will retain your ship.

It's not news to me that academic scholarships are revocable so don't push that on me. Athletic scholarships have no business being revoked for talent alone, that is the coaches failing the kids from the beginning, if they don't have the talent to be at this level the coach should have seen it during recruiting.

I said in the original post, and this is how I interpret the B1G rule, if the kid is not putting in the work, not showing up to practice on time, not lifting, he would not be in good standing and then the scholariship is then revocable, just like if you don't put in the work academically you lose your scholarship. But if the kid is putting in the work they cannot revoke it purely on talent and that is the way it should always be, this is not a business and if you feel it should be you are not really concerned with what really matters to the university as a whole.

There is a big difference in academic and athletic talents, I don't know why you think those two are completely relatable anyway.

 

[CheeseRunza]

It's not news to me that academic scholarships are revocable so don't push that on me. Athletic scholarships have no business being revoked for talent alone, that is the coaches failing the kids from the beginning, if they don't have the talent to be at this level the coach should have seen it during recruiting.

I said in the original post, and this is how I interpret the B1G rule, if the kid is not putting in the work, not showing up to practice on time, not lifting, he would not be in good standing and then the scholariship is then revocable, just like if you don't put in the work academically you lose your scholarship. But if the kid is putting in the work they cannot revoke it purely on talent and that is the way it should always be, this is not a business and if you feel it should be you are not really concerned with what really matters to the university as a whole.

There is a big difference in academic and athletic talents, I don't know why you think those two are completely relatable anyway.

What do you see as the difference between someone's academic talent and someone's athletic talent? I probably tend to side with dinglefritz, but am trying to see what the difference is between athletic and academic talent to understand your point. I think the big benefit to 4 year guaranteed scholarships is with recruiting.

 

[jflores]

What do you see as the difference between someone's academic talent and someone's athletic talent? I probably tend to side with dinglefritz, but am trying to see what the difference is between athletic and academic talent to understand your point. I think the big benefit to 4 year guaranteed scholarships is with recruiting.

The first problem is the measurement problem as described by Tuco.

The 2nd problem is that NCAA FB wants to maintain its appearance as an amateur organization. If schollies aren't revoked for academic reasons or general good conduct with the law, then student-athletes become athletes and basically treated in a separate manner than the rest of the student body. The only tie to the school is the logo.

 

[CheeseRunza]

Evaluation is one thing, but jawatkins said that “There is a big difference in academic and athletic talents” insinuating that there is a difference between the talents themselves. I was curious as to what that difference is. As far as your point about measurement, I think there a couple things to consider.

First off to say that measurement of academic performance is objective is not entirely correct. I think everyone would agree that grading can be subjective depending on the subject matter, the material being graded, testing methods, etc.

Secondly, there are academic programs where students who meet the minimum requirements, apply for the program complete with essays, personal statements and references. Then progress through rounds of interviews before a certain few are offered a spot in the program (evaluated and offered a spot by the evaluators as with football offers). As with the regents scholarships, students must meet certain performance standards to keep their scholarships (usually full ride) and remain in the program. But additionally, students can and have been dropped from the particular program I am thinking of, simply because the staff/professors/administrators don’t believe the student can keep up with their peers/cohort (subjective measurements as in athletics). The interesting part is that when there has been talk of trying to boost retention in the program or widen the program by bringing in more students, many of the students themselves balk at the notion, because they don’t want the program to become “watered” down. They embrace the high standards, enjoy the competition, and strive for excellence. I would think a football program with ambitions of being at the top of the mountain would embrace these same standards and would seek out athletes with these same characteristics.

I guess I don’t see how cutting a football player because he isn’t up to the level of his peers is any different that dropping a student because they might not be able keep up with his cohort. If you want to say that they should have guaranteed scholarships because they are football players, than fine, call it what it is. But to say that there is no comparison to the academic side is incorrect.

 

[jflores]

Evaluation is one thing, but jawatkins said that “There is a big difference in academic and athletic talents” insinuating that there is a difference between the talents themselves. I was curious as to what that difference is. As far as your point about measurement, I think there a couple things to consider.

First off to say that measurement of academic performance is objective is not entirely correct. I think everyone would agree that grading can be subjective depending on the subject matter, the material being graded, testing methods, etc.

Secondly, there are academic programs where students who meet the minimum requirements, apply for the program complete with essays, personal statements and references. Then progress through rounds of interviews before a certain few are offered a spot in the program (evaluated and offered a spot by the evaluators as with football offers). As with the regents scholarships, students must meet certain performance standards to keep their scholarships (usually full ride) and remain in the program. But additionally, students can and have been dropped from the particular program I am thinking of, simply because the staff/professors/administrators don’t believe the student can keep up with their peers/cohort (subjective measurements as in athletics). The interesting part is that when there has been talk of trying to boost retention in the program or widen the program by bringing in more students, many of the students themselves balk at the notion, because they don’t want the program to become “watered” down. They embrace the high standards, enjoy the competition, and strive for excellence. I would think a football program with ambitions of being at the top of the mountain would embrace these same standards and would seek out athletes with these same characteristics.

I guess I don’t see how cutting a football player because he isn’t up to the level of his peers is any different that dropping a student because they might not be able keep up with his cohort. If you want to say that they should have guaranteed scholarships because they are football players, than fine, call it what it is. But to say that there is no comparison to the academic side is incorrect.

The fundamental rift isn't over whether one specific academic program is or isn't similar to football subjectivity.

They are supposed to be students who play football. If you start pulling their academic funding "cuz football" and not because of academics they essentially become employees.

In the case of restrictive academic programs like you describe, the decision is still being made within the task at hand...academics. If they started pullings kids out of that program for other reasons (social skills, badmitton skillz, or nunchuck skillz) there'd be problems.

The concept was fairly well explained in Ghostbusters...don't cross the streams.

 

[CheeseRunza]

The fundamental rift isn't over whether one specific academic program is or isn't similar to football subjectivity.

They are supposed to be students who play football. If you start pulling their academic funding "cuz football" and not because of academics they essentially become employees.

In the case of restrictive academic programs like you describe, the decision is still being made within the task at hand...academics. If they started pullings kids out of that program for other reasons (social skills, badmitton skillz, or nunchuck skillz) there'd be problems.

The concept was fairly well explained in Ghostbusters...don't cross the streams.

But football players can loose their football scholarship for academic reasons. Isn't that crossing the streams?

 

[jflores]

But football players can loose their football scholarship for academic reasons. Isn't that crossing the streams?

The acceptable terms to all involved include academic performance (maintaining eligibility is required to even partake in football) and acting within the confines of normal human behavior (ie don't get thrown in jail).

Not becoming a starter by your Redshirt sophomore year, isn't one of the terms and condition.

Remember this is all predicated on said player being a student above all else.