4-star position distribution

Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by HominidHusker, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. HominidHusker

    HominidHusker Sophomore
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    I think I posted something similar a while back, but always nice to revisit. There’s always 3-stars that end up being better and 4-stars that disappoint, but thought seeing how the paper talent is spread through the position groups is nice.

    Only looking at Rivals or 247 4-star rankings, here’s what we have on the roster:

    QB: Adrian Martinez, Luke McCaffrey, Logan Smothers
    RB: Dedrick Mills, Rhamir Johnson, Sevion Morrison
    WR: Wandale Robinson, Jamie Nance, Omar Manning, Xavier Betts, Marcus Fleming
    OL: Matt Farniok, Bryce Benhart, Cam Jurgens, Turner Corcoran, Ezra Miller
    TE: None

    DL: Keem Green, Ty Robinson, Tate Wildeman
    LB: Caleb Tannor, Eteva Mauga, Nick Henrich, Jackson Hannah, Keyshawne Greene
    DB: Jaden Francois, Noa Pola-Gates, Marquel Dismuke

    *All this considering we’ve lost approx. 10 other 4 stars since Frost took over.
     
  2. jeans15

    jeans15 Head Coach
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    People need to step up.
     
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  3. husker2612

    husker2612 Graduate Assistant
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    I don't know if anyone will argue that we don't have talent. We have talent and we have had talent over the last 20 years. The issue for whatever reason is it seems we have a had a hard time keeping and developing that talent. Coaches don't seem to matter, time frame doesn't seem to matter, recruits don't seem to matter, positions don't matter. We get what looks like great talent coming in on paper, and either they transfer out in a year or 2 or they do nothing significant by year 4 or 5.
    If Frost is going to succeed here he has to figure out how to take those 3 and 4 star guys and turn them into 5 star NFL talent and do it consistently.
     
  4. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    That list is getting impressive.

    Now I'll list every player in that group who were upperclassmen on last year's team:

    -Dedrick Mills
    -Matt Farniok
    -Marquel Dismuke
    -Keem Green (4-game RS last year)
     
  5. HominidHusker

    HominidHusker Sophomore
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    The borderline 4 star guys (several 4 stars on ESPN) make up a big chunk of our anticipated contributors not listed above.
    Like husker2612 mentioned, development now is key, along with building depth at every position. We’re inching closer to that if things progress as they should.
     
  6. TFrazier

    TFrazier All-American
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    Thanks for putting this together. Can’t wait to see if Nebraska can develop more of them to play like 4 star players.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. John_J_Rambo

    John_J_Rambo Junior
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    I think the NFL and anyone paid to evaluate talent would argue we don't have talent. they're in the talent business, and want nothing to do with our players. that should tell you all you need to know.

    anyone who thinks we've had good players the last 2 years is fooling themselves. the draft is an unbiased view of our 'talent'. it's been non-existent. our players have sucked and we haven't maximized the little talent we have had.

    for what it's worth, none of the 'talent' we've lost have gone on to a pro career, either.
     
  8. Sodakred

    Sodakred Redshirt Freshman
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    Including our #9 coach.
     
  9. CatColumbia

    CatColumbia Senior
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    The key, as noted above, is developing the talent and creating the depth. In my opinion we are still a year away from having the depth to compete on a week-to-week basis in the Big 10. I’m honestly hoping we get a couple of games in the back half of the schedule cancelled. Ohio State is definitely one of them. I’m personally tired of having those guys on our schedule every damn year.
     
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  10. GBRforLife1

    GBRforLife1 Redshirt Freshman
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    27 4 stars is not near enough. Major lack of talent.
     
  11. GBRforLife1

    GBRforLife1 Redshirt Freshman
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    That's especially concerning. Our best players that we lost weren't good enough either.
     
  12. artguy68

    artguy68 Sophomore
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    From what I have seen, the next recruiting class looks like we may add 3 to 5 more 4 star players in the 2021 class (Prochazka, Kpai (247), a couple leans like Fidone and Ho'ohuli, and one surprise or reclassification). It just means that next year's team is going to have roughly the same number of total 4 stars unless there is attrition. And there is always attrition.
     
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  13. DudznSudz

    DudznSudz Senior
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    I was just reading today that Bill Moos has stated specifically that he considers Frost to be deep in a complete overhaul, and that he is withholding judgment on whether or not Frost is the right coach until Year 5. And, coincidentally, that is the year that we have our easiest schedule of the last decade, by far, and when, I would think, we'll either be a real Big 10 powerhouse or we'll know things need to be further tweaked or even totally re-thought. I kind of doubt it, though. I think Frost is the guy and it's just going to take time, period.
     
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  14. DudznSudz

    DudznSudz Senior
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    By the way, I took a gander at next year's recruits, and we have 5 in-state that we need to land. The highlight is Devon Jackson, an OLB at Burke who is the 25th ranked player in all of the 2022 class, meaning he might actually be a 5 star. Talk about a match made in heaven, we NEED that kid.
     
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  15. HominidHusker

    HominidHusker Sophomore
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    This has really been the story of our player development. Frost needs to turn that around and start sending guys to the league. Everything takes time, but the clock is ticking.
     
  16. jeans15

    jeans15 Head Coach
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    if half of each starting 11 is made of 4 stars we should at least be bowl eligible.
     
  17. John_J_Rambo

    John_J_Rambo Junior
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    @jflores has said the same numerous times, and I tend to agree.

    the absolute dearth of talent as shown a proper rebuild has been needed for a long time, despite those desperate for window-dressing 9-win seasons.

    though, meaningless as those wins may have been, the riley/pelini era players deserve credit. staffs, too, to some degree, painful as that may be for me to say.

    the B1G west is much, much better today than any division those wins came from. Frost has his work cut out.
     
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  18. Husker Red 182

    Husker Red 182 Walk On
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    I don’t think number of 4 stars is as much of a problem as not doing anything with 4 stars or 3 stars, 2 stars, no stars. In general players have not gotten better in our program. And on signing days our classes look better than iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Purdue and still usually lose
     
  19. phoenix4nu

    phoenix4nu First Team All-Big Ten
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    Maybe we haven’t been using the same kind of “supplements” that they have.
     
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  20. aliseanderson

    aliseanderson Redshirt Freshman
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    27 ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️‘s across 4.5yrs of classes is an average of 6 four stars per class.

    in the last 3 classes Frost has averaged 9-10 per class. We lost most of the 18’ class. So that number should come up closer to 40 if we keep averaging 9-10 and keep the team together.

    I believe Clemson has around 60-65 and Bama has closer to 75.
     
  21. John_J_Rambo

    John_J_Rambo Junior
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    good perspective.

    something sorely lacking from this board most of the time.
     
  22. husker2612

    husker2612 Graduate Assistant
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    There are plenty of examples of programs have decent, consistent success without getting the level of talent Nebraska can get. Places like Wisc or even Iowa come to mind in the BIG. These programs are lucky to get 4 or 5 4 star guys a class. We usually can double that. Yet they are still able to consistently beat teams that have equally or better talent. Development is just as important, probably more important than the talent you get out of highschool.
    Its like this. Investor A is given $1,000. Investor B is given $100. Investor A invests his $1000 badly. At the end of 5 years he has lost $500. Investor B took his $100, research and invested in a hot up and coming stock. After 5 years he has turned his $100 into $1500. Now yes I know this isn't exactly the same as running a football program, but it can go to show just because you start with something that looks better, if you don't manage it correctly you gain nothing or lose ground. Nebraska has been horrible with player/ talent management the last decade or so.
     
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  23. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    The retention piece is what people so easily lose sight of. Sure we have better initial classes than Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue, Northwestern. So we should be dominating them or stars are all BS right? Not when you're losing the equivalent of entire recruiting classes out of the middle of your development. The team you're actually putting on the field doesn't have those recruits that boosted your rating any more. It's the lower-ranked kids mixed with a bunch of walk-ons.

    Suddenly we're looking at talent levels equal to or worse than teams like Purdue and Northwestern. There's no polishing a turd, the loss of 4* kids out of this program has been brutal. When you compare our recruiting to PSU and then to OSU the talent gap just punches you right in the face. They get way more blue chip recruits, and then on top of that we lose a bunch of our blue chippers.

    When Epley came back and they said outright in the paper that NU volleyball had by far more measurably gifted athletes than NU football did, it was damning. A football roster is about 7-8 times bigger than a volleyball roster, yet they had more elite athletes per the testing numbers than NUFB did. Yikes.

    I don't believe in the notion that Nebraska can't be a Top-10 recruiting program, but we've seen so far that it's going to take more than Frost walking into a living room and flexing his biceps and saying, "I'm Scott Goddamned Frost, sign here!" The build is going slower than it did at PSU when they came off probation.

    Where I'm the biggest believer in Frost & Co. is their willingness to churn the roster. They're not letting kids who can't play just be pretend football players and eat a scholarship for 5 years, they're parting ways and using up every last scholarship not just each year, but twice a year. By all means necessary. JUCO, grad transfer schoalrships, taking walk-on transfers from kids who were on a FBS or FCS scholarship elsewhere.

    Scott isn't going to sit around and cry about the talent gap, he's realistic about it but he's also going and getting kids to get it flipped. He's been more aggressive about bringing in new players than we've seen in my recent memory.

    End of the day, NU will land consistent classes in the Top 20 and above or it will languish in mediocrity. There's no question in my mind.
     
    23 TheBeav815, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  24. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    Continuity comes before development.

    Wisconsin has had Barry Alvarez leading its athletic department in either a coaching or AD role for about 30 years.

    Iowa's had one head coach the last 21 years.

    Meanwhile, Nebraska's had 5 AD's and 5 head coaches in the last 17 years.

    People can ask for development, improved talent, wins, schemes, etc., but what's really needed is a unified plan and the discipline to stick to it.
     
  25. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    this right here is the biggest issue and why we have struggled the most the last 2 seasons. Most of these 4 star players listed in the OP are true freshmen that red shirted during the 2019 season or they are just now getting to campus for the 2020 season. All the talent we lost from 2016, 2017 and 2018 classes have killed us with talent, experience and upperclassmen leadership.
     
    25 huskerssalts, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  26. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    well done my man. I do this all the time, I look at Rivals, 24/7 and ESPN recruiting ( I call it the big 3) and that’s how I figure out our 4 star players and our 3 star players.

    One player you missed was Deontre Thomas a Top 250 4 star via 24/7 and ESPN.

    Ones you could have added via ESPN recruiting was 4 star players Chris Hickman, D. Houston, Will Honas, R Thompkins, D Williams, Cam Taylor-Brit, Matt Sichterman and Quinton Newsome. Either way, we’ll done.
     
    26 huskerssalts, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  27. Catch50

    Catch50 Athletic Director
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    We don't get better by playing weak teams. We should want to play anyone, anywhere.
     
  28. huntered

    huntered Senior
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    always thought we should have around 44 four star players on our roster. 6 special teams k, kr, snap, p. and 32 3 star. thin out the guys that dont seem to want "it" yearly and restock. just seems like recently we have had an abundance of 4 star guys that were probably over ranked coming out of hs. think we are progressing in that kind of direction.
     
  29. GBRforLife1

    GBRforLife1 Redshirt Freshman
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    Do Clemson and Bama have attrition too or is that just Nebraska?

    We can justify it in whatever way will make us sleep better at night and my post isn't to blame anyone (except Riley and Pelini LaughingWinking). The simple fact is we're not as talented as we need to be and right now we have very few over achievers.

    Few 3* are playing like 4* and I'd be hard pressed to say we have any 5* talent. Maybe there will be some surprises this year. I'd like there to be.
     
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  30. HominidHusker

    HominidHusker Sophomore
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    I feel like ESPN may be too generous with the 4 stars, but at the same time what’s the difference between an 88 three star and 90 four star on 247 ? So in some ways the generosity may be more reflective of talent “groupings.”

    I didn’t clarify I used 247 composite... so Deontre Thomas showed up as 3 star.
    Could be a couple others with the 4 star rating from 247 I missed, which I prefer when looking at different sites independently for comparisons.
     
  31. DudznSudz

    DudznSudz Senior
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    Oh yeah, they have attrition as well, they're just so loaded on talent that it doesn't hobble their game. Attrition here can be very destabilizing; attrition there is an inconvenience at worst, usually.
     
  32. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    I don’t blame you, everyone has their own ways. I rarely go off of 24/7 composites ranking. But I do the samething as looking at all three independently and out of respect for the recruits, I always call them by their highest rating given per the big 3.

    ESPN recruiting does just fine. They are always right there neck and neck with the other two sites. Sometimes ESPN makes the correct call, other times it’s Rivals and other times it’s 24/7. All 3 are legit recruiting services.
     
    32 huskerssalts, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  33. otismotis08

    otismotis08 Assistant Head Coach
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    Either way, we are way years behind the big boys. Without some magic wand to pump up the recruiting results, it's going to take a slow build based on winning football games and selling our identity.
     
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  34. huskerssalts

    huskerssalts Recruiting Coordinator
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    there is nothing wrong with paying attention to the talent levels we have been adding the past couple recruiting classes as this is a recruiting message board. Most of those players redshirted last year and/or haven’t even made to campus yet. We have to give time for them to get developed. I agree on the winning part and getting that rolling and it’s going to take some time getting to that...GBR
     
    34 huskerssalts, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  35. DudznSudz

    DudznSudz Senior
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    Kinda sorta. I mean, I agree, we're in a years-long process of rebuilding. However, I don't think we necessarily have to try to get exactly on the same level as Ohio State. We hired a coach who has an offensive mind and a scheme that seems to work "with the right personnel." Sound familiar? Osborne was successful because he recruited to a system he designed that was meant to accentuate strengths and minimize weakness.

    We just need Frost to get the recruits he wants. They can be 3 stars, so long as they are fast and long. They can be 4 stars, too, but the whole point of what he did at UCF was take a bunch of overlooked 3-star players (who, admittedly, were a bunch of South and Florida players, so they were fast and athletic) and take down Auburn, which was and is loaded with 4 star talent. He did that using a very specific scheme that did exactly what Osborne's used to do. Highlight strengths (speed, scheme), minimize weakness (moderate talent gap).
     
  36. otismotis08

    otismotis08 Assistant Head Coach
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    That worked for UCF for a very short sample. I'm not sure anyone's scheme is that much better than everyone else's over the long haul. Nebraska should be recruiting at a higher level than UCF.
     
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  37. NikkiSixx

    NikkiSixx Graduate Assistant
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    I'm not so sure that we have a higher level of recruiting than UCF... that is one big school, located near lots of talent.

    I would think our top recruits would be better, but would our walk-ons be rated higher too? I guess I'm wondering if that isn't the case leading to our overall talent level being similar or below.
     
  38. leodisflowers

    leodisflowers All-American
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    I disagree. I think Frost has a very very good scheme. There were some videos posted a few months back where the problem is players are no making plays or we are missing reads. I really think Scott is damn good at scheme, just needs to get better at getting his folks to execute. There a numerous games that we have wide open people or holes all over the place and just can't seem to execute. When it all comes together I really think we are going to look pretty good. I agree we should be recruiting much better than UCF, and I think we are. I've got probably 1 more season before I go pure doom and gloom on Frost. You can see the flashes, it just all needs to come together, and quit making excuses. Let's get it done for once.
     
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  39. Cornicator

    Cornicator Nebraska Legend
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    In 2017, UCF had 3 future NFL receivers (Tre'quan Smith, Gabriel Davis, and Dedrick Snelson), an NFL tight end, (Jordan Akins) 3 NFL running backs (Adrian Killins, Taj McGowan, Greg McCray - a probable high draft pick in 2021) a 4th back named Cordarrian Richardson who is now the starting Fullback at Texas A&M, and a 5th back in Otis Anderson who will likely surpass 2500 total yard in his UCF career.... Oh,, and an All American QB.

    Wandale, JD, and Dedrick were the only dudes from the 2020 Huskers who would've ever seen the field on that team.

    2020 will be the first season since Frost arrived where he comes close towards equalling the talent he had at UCF.

    And it's important to note that only the TE and Trequan Smith were leftovers on the UCF roster when Frost arrived. it built the rest of that roster in two years.

    I believe we will start seeing similar growth at Nebraska in year 3.
     
  40. John_J_Rambo

    John_J_Rambo Junior
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    That’s just the offense, too. Handful of picks on D, as well.

    meanwhile we went nearly 2 full years with zero draft picks. it’s not even close.
     
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