ADVERTISEMENT

3rd yr in a row Clemson vs Alabama

starhusker

Walk On
Dec 2, 2004
317
137
43
Does the playoff committee need to start making changes to the way they vote? Do they need to add 8 teams instead of keeping 4? Seems like ESPN, who has the tv rights to the SEC seems to want as many teams in the ACC & SEC every yr. Nick Saban also doesn't want to see a change to the current CFB Playoffs. This is the 2nd yr they didn't vote in a Big 10 team into the playoffs. Here's an article from Bleacher Report on there needs to be a change to the playoffs -

Alabama and Clemson Domination Creates Ugly Day for CFB Playoff Committee
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2813062
 
4th year in a row they have met in the playoffs, but not the 3rd straight in the championship. They met in a semifinal game last season, the championship was Alabama-Georgia.

EDIT: The only season they did not meet in the playoffs was the first season (2014) when Clemson did not qualify (finished 10-3; FSU won the ACC and lost to Oklahoma in the semifinal round).
 
Does the playoff committee need to start making changes to the way they vote? Do they need to add 8 teams instead of keeping 4? Seems like ESPN, who has the tv rights to the SEC seems to want as many teams in the ACC & SEC every yr. Nick Saban also doesn't want to see a change to the current CFB Playoffs. This is the 2nd yr they didn't vote in a Big 10 team into the playoffs. Here's an article from Bleacher Report on there needs to be a change to the playoffs -

Alabama and Clemson Domination Creates Ugly Day for CFB Playoff Committee
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2813062
I read the article linked in the OP and it proposes "[a] committee of NFL scouts and personnel people and former NFL and college players". While on the surface it would seem like an improvement over those with a vested interest selecting teams for the playoff, NFL scouts are trained to look for potential for development, work ethic/other habitual traits, coachability, and raw ability. It just becomes a different kind of beauty contest and would look a lot like recruiting rankings.

As I and others have debated in other threads over the last month-plus, the definition of "best" is highly subjective.

EDIT #1: The author makes a point of differentiating between "best" and "most deserving". "Deserving" is also subjective, but in my opinion has a closer connotation to a merit-based selection rather than "best", which can be contorted to mean whatever a given committee deems necessary to reach a desired result.

EDIT #2: As I've stated in other discussions (for those who haven't read the other threads), I'm a proponent of objective paths to a championship in an effort to not eliminate teams from contention for subjective/non-performance-related reasons (or at least the perception of those reasons). To that degree, I don't care if playoff games result in blowouts as long as it provides an objective path for as many teams as possible. That means AQs, expanding the playoff, and likely campus site games, which the linked article is staunchly opposed to.

What is critical to the committee, ESPN, and advertisers is keeping eyeballs on the game ($$$). Blowouts don't do that, which is why yesterday's games are considered a "failure". As others have pointed out, Oklahoma and Notre Dame were not necessarily "better" than Georgia and Ohio State, but arguably "more deserving".
 
Last edited:
Has nothing to do with ESPN favoring a conference, so stop that nonsense. If you want to get real, Georgia should have been playing in this thing, but arent.
Georgia was in the playoffs. They just lost in the round of eight to Alabama. Why make them play each other again in the semi finals?
 
  • Like
Reactions: donahues17
Alabama being such an incredibly dominant program right now makes almost any post-season format moot. Clemson is a close second with their recent success. But it is kind of weird that two teams have been so dominant for this long.

If Alabama comes back to the pack a little, restoring some parity, I think we’ll all be less critical. It will also help if teams like Nebraska, Florida State, and a few other traditional powers get their act together and add a few more teams capable of winning it all.
 
Does the playoff committee need to start making changes to the way they vote? Do they need to add 8 teams instead of keeping 4? Seems like ESPN, who has the tv rights to the SEC seems to want as many teams in the ACC & SEC every yr. Nick Saban also doesn't want to see a change to the current CFB Playoffs. This is the 2nd yr they didn't vote in a Big 10 team into the playoffs. Here's an article from Bleacher Report on there needs to be a change to the playoffs -

Alabama and Clemson Domination Creates Ugly Day for CFB Playoff Committee
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2813062
So you watched yesterday's games and your conclusion is that a TV network somehow gerrymandered an Alabama-Clemson matchup in the title game?
 
Georgia was in the playoffs. They just lost in the round of eight to Alabama. Why make them play each other again in the semi finals?

Last time I checked the playoffs were Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame.
 
Last time I checked the playoffs were Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame.
To be fair, in the 5 seasons of the CFP, the committee has never placed a team who has lost a CCG into the 4-team playoff. So if a team is in playoff contention and plays in a CCG, it is an elimination game for all intents and purposes.

EDIT: The committee has, however, put two teams in the playoff who did not win their conference (2016 Ohio State, 2017 Alabama), along with two more teams who did not play CCG weekend (2015 Oklahoma, 2018 Notre Dame).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: timnsun
Last time I checked the playoffs were Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame.
You can’t put them as a #2 or #3, because they had 2 losses. So it would be Alabama vs Georgia yesterday, which doesn’t make a lot of sense.
 
Exactly. That’s because the week before, Alabama eliminated Georgia. So why make them play again?
Could say the same when LSU played Alabama in the national title game under the BCS and Oklahoma State was snubbed. Arguments can be made as to whether Alabama and LSU were the two best teams in the country who just happened to be in the same division or that it's already been decided on the field (albeit in a 6-3 OT game) LSU is superior to Alabama that season and have LSU play someone else.
 
Last time I checked the playoffs were Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame.
Any thoughts on this? I like the idea of leveraging the CCGs and making sure the teams in contention all play that weekend regardless of whether they are in a CCG. Looking back on my post from a few weeks ago, I think giving CCG winner home games in the second round would be the way to go as it puts a priority on winning a conference rather than backdooring through one of the "wild card" games (and potentially resting starters down the stretch).
 
So you watched yesterday's games and your conclusion is that a TV network somehow gerrymandered an Alabama-Clemson matchup in the title game?

I can’t imagine ESPN was hoping for this final. It has zero appeal to most of college football fans. It’s basically a re-run and honestly I don’t even think I will watch. It’s Golden State vs the Cavs BS. College football needs new blood. I strongly believe this will be one of the lowest rated College Football championship, at least since they’ve had the playoffs.

However, sad to say, the two best teams are in the finals. Did the 4 best teams make the finals? Hell no. But as so many people have stated UGA and tOSU have no one to blame but themselves.
 
Could say the same when LSU played Alabama in the national title game under the BCS and Oklahoma State was snubbed. Arguments can be made as to whether Alabama and LSU were the two best teams in the country who just happened to be in the same division or that it's already been decided on the field (albeit in a 6-3 OT game) LSU is superior to Alabama that season and have LSU play someone else.
Alabama and LSU were the two best teams that year and Oklahoma State shouldn't have lost to some crappy team if they wanted to make the title game.
 
I can’t imagine ESPN was hoping for this final. It has zero appeal to most of college football fans. It’s basically a re-run and honestly I don’t even think I will watch. It’s Golden State vs the Cavs BS. College football needs new blood. I strongly believe this will be one of the lowest rated College Football championship, at least since they’ve had the playoffs.

However, sad to say, the two best teams are in the finals. Did the 4 best teams make the finals? Hell no. But as so many people have stated UGA and tOSU have no one to blame but themselves.
Yep, rematch and a concentrate geographic footprint does not have great appeal nationally, however, luckily for ESPN, the latter doesn't matter as much because there is still a very high volume of viewers in the concentration from where these teams reside.

I was going to point to TV ratings to say last year was terrible for advertisers/ESPN, but it was higher than the prior two seasons.

Will edit to add the ratings summary, here is the most in-depth one I could find.

EDIT: National Title Game ratings over the years...

2017/18: Alabama vs. Georgia
Rating: 15.6
Viewers: 28.443M

2016/17: Alabama vs. Clemson
Rating: 14.2
Viewers: 26.029M

2015/16: Alabama vs. Clemson
Rating: 15.0
Viewers: 26.709M

2014/15: Ohio State vs. Oregon
Rating: 18.6
Viewers: 34.623M

2013/14: Auburn vs. Florida State
Rating: 14.8
Viewers: 26.205M

2012/13: Alabama vs. Notre Dame
Rating: 15.1
Viewers: 26.380M

2011/12: LSU vs. Alabama
Rating: 14.0
Viewers: 24.214M

2010/11: Auburn vs. Oregon
Rating: 15.3
Viewers: 27.316M

2009/10: Texas vs. Alabama
Rating: 17.2
Viewers: 30.776M

2008/09: Florida vs. Oklahoma
Rating: 15.8
Viewers: 26.767M

2007/08: LSU vs. Ohio State
Rating: 14.4
Viewers: 23.069M

2006/07: Florida vs. Ohio State
Rating: 17.4
Viewers: 28.795M

2005/06: Texas vs. USC
Rating: 21.7
Viewers: 35.630M

2004/05: Oklahoma vs. USC
Rating: 13.7
Viewers: 21.419M

2003/04: LSU vs. Oklahoma
Rating: 14.8
Viewers: 23.937M

2002/03: Miami vs. Ohio State
Rating: 17.2
Viewers: 29.104M

2001/02: Miami vs. Nebraska
Rating: 13.8
Viewers: 21.559M

2000/01: Oklahoma vs. Florida State
Rating: 17.8
Viewers: 27.240M

1999/2000: Florida State vs. Virginia Tech
Rating: 17.5
Viewers: 26.962M

1998/99: Tennessee vs. Florida State
Rating: 17.2
Viewers: 26.112M
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: spinner4
Clemson and Alabama are far and away the best two teams and programs in college football. Georgia is the only program sniffing those 2. Expanding the playoff just rewards worse teams, the 4 that made it were the 4 that deserved to. The 2 in the final are the 2 that deserve to be there. It's the same result the bcs or an 8 team playoff would've created.
 
Alabama and LSU were the two best teams that year and Oklahoma State shouldn't have lost to some crappy team if they wanted to make the title game.
I agree they were the perceived two best teams that season, I was more trying to counter @timnsun's post about rematches. Personally I would have liked to see LSU-Oklahoma State because we had already seen LSU-Alabama. Overall point being there is such a small data set in FBS that the more variety of matchups, particularly across conferences, the better. That doesn't mean there couldn't still be a split national title, just like in the BCS when Oklahoma made the BCS title game despite losing to KSU in the Big 12 CCG, lost to LSU, and USC won the Rose Bowl and was voted #1 by the AP (USC was #1 in both polls after the 2003 CCG weekend but did not play in the BCS title game). It wasn't unprecedented in the BCS era to have a split title when the Alabama-LSU rematch occurred.

From a conference revenue standpoint, because Alabama-LSU Part 1 was so close and resulted in Alabama not dropping much in the polls, it was a huge boon for the SEC. Alabama may still have been selected over Oklahoma State had they been blown out by LSU because the pollsters would have been deciding which loss, which still exists today with the committee (also note that OSU's loss was on a < EDIT > Friday < /EDIT > night road game just days after there was a plane crash that killed several in their athletic department).
 
Does the playoff committee need to start making changes to the way they vote? Do they need to add 8 teams instead of keeping 4? Seems like ESPN, who has the tv rights to the SEC seems to want as many teams in the ACC & SEC every yr. Nick Saban also doesn't want to see a change to the current CFB Playoffs. This is the 2nd yr they didn't vote in a Big 10 team into the playoffs. Here's an article from Bleacher Report on there needs to be a change to the playoffs -

Alabama and Clemson Domination Creates Ugly Day for CFB Playoff Committee
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2813062

An odd conclusion... Everything you say points for us to go back to 2 teams. It is obviously the other two teams had no right to be on the field...if I was Clemson and Bama I would be pissed we had to play an extra game just to fleece the other guys. When there are dominant teams like those two the playoff is pointless...the only thing that could happen is a qb gets hurt and one of the inferior teams somehow pulls it out and then we get an inferior championships game. Except Alabama has a backup with national championship experience....
 
What is with the ESPN conspiracies all the time? What teams in the other conferences have shown they belong in the playoff? Never mind how awful ND is. The Pac12 has been down the last few years (they’ve won one bowl game the last two years), the B1G’s last two playoff teams have scored a combined 0 points in CFP games, and the Big12’s best, OU, is 0-3 in the CFP. Outside of the SEC and ACC who else should get in? OSU lost to a 6-7 Purdue team that gave up the most points in a half in any bowl game ever. Disqualifying. UCF?
 
What is with the ESPN conspiracies all the time? What teams in the other conferences have shown they belong in the playoff? Never mind how awful ND is. The Pac12 has been down the last few years (they’ve won one bowl game the last two years), the B1G’s last two playoff teams have scored a combined 0 points in CFP games, and the Big12’s best, OU, is 0-3 in the CFP. Outside of the SEC and ACC who else should get in? OSU lost to a 6-7 Purdue team that gave up the most points in a half in any bowl game ever. Disqualifying. UCF?
You can't deny that ESPN has a vested interest on multiple levels in terms of playoff participants, which means they can decide what to discuss/promote and not discuss/promote to shape public opinion, which drives fans to watch certain games, which drives advertisers, which shapes some overarching selection committee criteria (whether direct or indirect). Given the committee has been fluid over the years with some criteria, it isn't farfetched to think there is ESPN influence that could undermine merit-based selection.

I also don't think many people will deny that the Alabama and Clemson programs are head and shoulders above the rest of the field.

A person can hold both of those opinions.
 
An odd conclusion... Everything you say points for us to go back to 2 teams. It is obviously the other two teams had no right to be on the field...if I was Clemson and Bama I would be pissed we had to play an extra game just to fleece the other guys. When there are dominant teams like those two the playoff is pointless...the only thing that could happen is a qb gets hurt and one of the inferior teams somehow pulls it out and then we get an inferior championships game. Except Alabama has a backup with national championship experience....
It just seems that a playoff system needs to be filled mainly with teams that win something rather than teams that a group of old men and women thing are the best.

All of the P5 champions should get a seat at the table and the highest ranked team from the other conferences or independents. Then seed the teams and the two highest ranked teams get a bye. The remaining 4 play a wild card game 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 on 3 and 4's home field. The loser of the wild card games get a New Years Day Bowl.

This year, it would have been

Washington at Notre Dame with the winner playing Clemson
Ohio State at Oklahoma with the winner playing Alabama

Only one team is in based on rankings and the P5 teams need to win their conference championship to get in.

If the 2 "best" teams in the country are in one conference, that gets sorted out during the season as to who represents the conference (i.e. everyone gets a chance).
 
Last edited:
You can't deny that ESPN has a vested interest on multiple levels in terms of playoff participants, which means they can decide what to discuss/promote and not discuss/promote to shape public opinion, which drives fans to watch certain games, which drives advertisers, which shapes some overarching selection committee criteria (whether direct or indirect). Given the committee has been fluid over the years with some criteria, it isn't farfetched to think there is ESPN influence that could undermine merit-based selection.

I also don't think many people will deny that the Alabama and Clemson programs are head and shoulders above the rest of the field.

A person can hold both of those opinions.
Sure but their promotion is not deciding which teams get in the playoff. That’s the unfounded conspiracy people are talking about. If they were really picking winners and losers from their favorite conferences then Georgia would have rightfully gotten in.
 
It just seems that a playoff system needs to be filled mainly with teams that win something rather than teams that a group of old men and women thing are the best.

All of the P5 champions should get a seat at the table and the highest ranked team from the other conferences. Then seed the teams and the two highest ranked teams get a bye. The remaining 4 play a wild card game 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 on 3 and 4's home field. The loser of the wild card games get a New Years Day Bowl.

Only one team is in based on rankings and the P5 teams need to win their conference championship to get in.
I think it needs to go to 8. At 6, there is still a very large premium on a ranking system determining a bigger advantage than home field: one less opportunity for loss or injury. Kind of like playing an extra conference game compared to playing an FCS team (Big Ten/Pac-12 vs. ACC/SEC) or having to play in a CCG vs. not (most teams vs. Notre Dame (no conference affiliation), 2001 Nebraska, 2011 Alabama, 2016 Ohio State, 2017 Alabama). This year notwithstanding, the difference between #2 and #3 generally isn't that significant, but #2 is receiving a huge advantage over #3 by having less exposure to risk. I say that once the field is set, make it as level a playing field as possible. If anything, provide motivation to winning the conference by awarding hosting rights for the first round to only conference champions (with five P5 conferences, there will be an odd team out).

Going to an 8-team playoff would capture teams that have a legitimate claim to be of national title caliber: 5 automatic qualifiers plus 3 at large. Since BYU won the MNC in 1984, there have never been more than 5 undefeated teams heading into bowl games. Since the NCAA permitted 12 regular season games for all teams (2006), only twice has there been more than 8 teams with 1 or fewer losses (2008 had 10, 2010 had 9); Since the last time there were more than 8 teams with 1 or fewer losses, the number of power conferences has reduced from 6 to 5 with the elimination of Big East football.

In a the traditional sense, there haven't been more than 5 teams that have a legitimate claim to the national title. Assuming 2 of those are P5 conference champs, then there are still 3 at large spots to capture the other three (say a G5 team and a non-champ from the same conference as the 2 P5 champs that are legitimate contenders in this hypothetical). If this means a mediocre team squeaks in by getting hot at the right time and winning the right games in a P5 conference, so be it.
 
Sure but their promotion is not deciding which teams get in the playoff. That’s the unfounded conspiracy people are talking about. If they were really picking winners and losers from their favorite conferences then Georgia would have rightfully gotten in.
Maybe not directly, but people are going to watch what is promoted. TV ratings (and in turn, advertising sales) influence future media rights negotiations. The CFP sells the rights for the games and they are going to want to maximize the bids. If unpopular matchups come out of the committee room, they will hear about it one way or another, but at the end of the day, it comes down to the advertising that can be sold.

The CFP has a contract with ESPN through the mid-2020s, but there is talk of expanding to an 8-team playoff, with would open up negotiations again and the CFP would have to buyout the ESPN deal to get out of the contract if they want to go elsewhere or pay ESPN a lot of money for the extra round of games (increasing the playoff inventory from 3 games to 7 games). So while ESPN is already on the hook for the remainder of the 4-team playoff contract and there is nothing they can do to directly affect the committee's selection, they can choose to promote change in the system or talk about teams that should have gotten in to create public controversy over the validity of the selection process.

The CFP's media rights decision would become a trade off proposition whether to buyout the ESPN contract (and whatever penalties are associated) or play nice and give ESPN matchups that are more lucrative for their business model. ESPN isn't just interested in the CFP matchups, but their ability to promote the other games for which they have rights (don't forget they own a sizable chunk of the SEC Network). So the opposite could also be argued that the CFP is also interested in producing a field that is attractive to multiple potential media partners if they want to expand to an 8-team field and buyout the ESPN contract.

Or the committee could just be doing their best to evaluate teams' accomplishments, strengths, and weaknesses and the fact that there is a multi-billion dollar ($5.64 billion over 12 years) plus decades of institutional thought and evolution on what constitutes metrics for best teams (given the small sample size of the college football season), perennial contenders, demographics, scheduling practices, etc., has no influence whatsoever. Combine the monetary value of the CFP with the scarcity of qualification, and I don't think it's unreasonable to think there would be factors outside of on-field performance influencing a committee (or at least debate into the thought process and discussions that occur inside the committee room).

Tangentially, what does a G5 team need to do to qualify for the playoff given the schedule strength imbalance whether by choice, blackballing, or bureaucratic prejudice? Keep in mind when the CFP started, they stated they wanted to see strong non-conference scheduling, which I believe was direction to tell P5 teams to schedule other P5 teams in the non-conference and left fewer strong P5 vs. strong G5 scheduling opportunities because they are such a risky proposition for the P5 team.

Regarding "Georgia would have rightfully gotten in", the committee conveniently says they want the four "best" teams and makes their criteria somewhat fluid from year to year. I don't believe that isn't by design.

The rub with Georgia (11-2) is "best" vs. "most deserving". While recruiting rankings and pushing Alabama to the limit twice in 11 months would indicate they are one of the "best" teams in the country, how many would call them more deserving than Notre Dame (12-0) and Oklahoma (12-1), having most recently defeated the only team who beat them) going into the bowls? If you look at Post 23 in this thread, since the 2005 Orange Bowl (Oklahoma vs. USC, 13.7 rating; Auburn and Utah also went undefeated that season, and Boise State was undefeated entering bowl season), the lowest-rated national title game was the LSU-Alabama rematch in the Sugar Bowl after the 2011 season (14.0 rating). Perhaps the powers that be took into consideration that ratings may be higher if there is a new matchup rather than having Alabama and Georgia play for a second time in the same month (assuming Georgia would have been the 4 seed) and third time in 12 months.

Anyway, I'll take my tinfoil hat off now. :D Really went off my rocker with this post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoBigRedHead
Does the playoff committee need to start making changes to the way they vote? Do they need to add 8 teams instead of keeping 4? Seems like ESPN, who has the tv rights to the SEC seems to want as many teams in the ACC & SEC every yr. Nick Saban also doesn't want to see a change to the current CFB Playoffs. This is the 2nd yr they didn't vote in a Big 10 team into the playoffs. Here's an article from Bleacher Report on there needs to be a change to the playoffs -

Alabama and Clemson Domination Creates Ugly Day for CFB Playoff Committee
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2813062


This is a perfect reason why we don't need an 8 team playoff. Both those teams dominated their bowls. if they are that far beyond the rest of college football no point adding more playoff teams. I'd rather see the 5-8 teams play each in another bowl game.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT